WoE's Black Sheep Game!

Quote: WizardofEngland

Ok, I will take all that on board, but I do think a wrong answer should be worth more points than a common correct one. What do you think??

It really boils down to whether or not research is permitted or encouraged.

A wrong answer supplied because I was trying to be tricky and pick something that no one else would pick, but I messed up, merits an additional penalty.
Having to guess at an answer because I have no knowledge of the subject question should not merit an additional penalty.

As I was reading your game the first time, and then later you confirmed it, I was expecting to do research on the questions I didn't know (MJ - I am not a musical person and Simpsons - never cared to watch it).

But, if everyone was to do a lot of research on each question, I think it would skew the results you might expect to see. Example, using IMDB, I bet I could find a character that was on 3 episodes of the Simpsons that only a die hard fan might even had heard of.

I think I like the game with the no research rule in place. To compensate for that a couple of options:

-- perhaps there could be 12 questions, and a player only needs to answer 10. The player would also pick which 2 questions they think are the most likely to be skipped. As a player, if you know all 12 answers for certain, then you try to answer questions that others may not answer, or do you?

-- figure out a way to allow a player to not answer a question due to no knowledge. In other words, I can choose to guess, but if I am wrong about the topic my score will be heavily whacked, OR, I can choose to Not Answer Due to no Knowledge, and then I would get some lesser score for the question.


I really like your game concept, and I can't wait to see your results. It should be a very interesting discussion.

Americans can have fairly easy access to the Premeir League IMO. They can view a game of the week on ESPN, and for further access you can view Premeir League Games on the Fox Sports Channel which I get with Dish Network without a special Sports Package.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Ok, I will take all that on board, but I do think a wrong answer should be worth more points than a common correct one. What do you think??

Well it depends on what you mean by wrong. Clearly there are 20 football teams in the Premier League, so if you said NY Giants you are an idiot.

I thought some of the questions were open to interpretation. A "Tom Hanks" movie could be one he starred in, one he produced (either feature film or documentary), one he directed, an animated one where he was a voice actor, or his only cameo appearance in a movie. Personally I gave several answers depending on what the rules were. I would hate to consider an answer "wrong" that was open to interpretation.

Quote: pacomartin

Well it depends on what you mean by wrong. Clearly there are 20 football teams in the Premier League, so if you said NY Giants you are an idiot.

Even though I consider myself a sports fan, and I reff'd soccer at a high school and adult recreational level 10 years ago, I doubt I am alone here in not knowing how many teams there are in the Premier League. Other than World Cup, I rarely watch the games. I did gain a bit of interest when Howard and Donovan went to the Premier League, but I would have to say I still ranked well below casual fan.

Not to pick on you paco, but to say someone is an idiot for picking the NY Giants may be a bit harsh. Given the elevated IQ level on this board, and knowing that WOE is from across the pond, probably everyone here knew the sport being referenced was not American football, but soccer. However, it is possible that someone who pays zero attention to sports, and has never heard of Premier League, would recognize the word football, and respond with the NY Giants.

Very interesting thought process on the Tom Hanks question. My question to you though, would you be able to name at least one movie in each of the categories you listed, without looking anything up? I was too narrow minded in my reading of the question, but even if I had your insight to the question, I would not have been able to come up with directed movies, or animated voices, etc.

Quote: Gabes22

Americans can have fairly easy access to the Premeir League IMO. They can view a game of the week on ESPN, and for further access you can view Premeir League Games on the Fox Sports Channel which I get with Dish Network without a special Sports Package.

I agree. In the last few years it has become much easier to find a game to watch, if you really want to. I'd really be curious to see what the numbers are of TV viewers in the US for Premier League games. No doubt the die hard 'football' fans are tuning in, but I wonder how many casual fans watch.

Quote: RaleighCraps

As I was reading your game the first time, and then later you confirmed it, I was expecting to do research on the questions I didn't know (MJ - I am not a musical person and Simpsons - never cared to watch it).

Although I don't watch TV, I think I'd have to live under a rock to not know some regular Simpsons characters. Ever heard of Bart, Homer, Lisa, Marge?

I was intrigued when I thought the contest did not involve research because some of the strategy is in choosing answers that you expect other people to not know. It also involves choosing answers that you expect that others didn't answer due to their strategy. If you assume that everyone has perfect knowledge, then it changes everything.

I dont want to give an answer regarding the Tom Hanks film at this stage.

But I think I could of worded it better. However, the answers have been inventive. I think if I had been as vague with a lesser known star, the answers would be very interesting, although few actors have ever directed a film with few lead roles to their name.

I also picked the Premier League, as its very easy for me to check the answers. In hindsight the US fast food chain might be tricky, and will generally be giving people the benefit of the doubt. I have most the questions ready for the next game, and they are massively improved on this round.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Ok, I will take all that on board, but I do think a wrong answer should be worth more points than a common correct one. What do you think??

The contest as originally stated was about being the "Black Sheep", (as opposed to how unique you could be without Google). I looked up possibilities and considered which might be selected as unique, assuming everyone else was doing the same.

In this context, I would definitely penalize wrong answers.

In the future, especially if a prize (besides "glory") is awarded, all available resources should be open for use in developing responses.

WoE,
as i am sure you know,
you can just search wikipedia to verify all non-wizard site answers,
just google:
epl,
state pop
hanks film
mj discogr
fastfo chain
bb theory
recur simpson char

Quote: Ayecarumba

The contest as originally stated was about being the "Black Sheep", (as opposed to how unique you could be without Google). I looked up possibilities and considered which might be selected as unique, assuming everyone else was doing the same.

In this context, I would definitely penalize wrong answers.

In the future, especially if a prize (besides "glory") is awarded, all available resources should be open for use in developing responses.

Totally agree, I want the playing field to be level after all.
Havent had an entry from the Wizard yet.....

While we are talking vagueness, what do you mean by US food chain? Do they have to be national chains like a McDonald's, do they have to at least be a regional chain like In N Out Burger which is primarily out West or could it be a local fast food chain like we have in Chicago like Portillo's?

I don't know what all the hoopla is all about, WoE's original post seemed clear to me.

Quote: pacomartin

I thought some of the questions were open to interpretation. A "Tom Hanks" movie could be one he starred in, one he produced (either feature film or documentary), one he directed, an animated one where he was a voice actor, or his only cameo appearance in a movie. Personally I gave several answers depending on what the rules were. I would hate to consider an answer "wrong" that was open to interpretation.

I would interpret that to mean any live action movie where he had top billing. While he was top billed on "Toy Story," no one would call that a "Tom Hanks movie," not the least because he shared much of the screen time with Tim Allen. DaVinci Code is clearly a Tom Hanks movie; so is Saving Private Ryan. He has been top billed in everything he has starred in since Splash.
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Thank no God that there was the EPL on U.S. TV this season. Best finish to a season ever, with Manchester City winning it all over Manchester United in literally the last four minutes of the season. WoE, which Premier League team, if any, do you support? (Feel free to hold off answering if you feel it will influence the results).

Quote: Gabes22

While we are talking vagueness, what do you mean by US food chain? Do they have to be national chains like a McDonald's, do they have to at least be a regional chain like In N Out Burger which is primarily out West or could it be a local fast food chain like we have in Chicago like Portillo's?

Any food chain that has more than one outlet.

Quote: rainman

I don't know what all the hoopla is all about, WoE's original post seemed clear to me.

:-) thats good to hear.

Quote: teddys

I would interpret that to mean any live action movie where he had top billing. While he was top billed on "Toy Story," no one would call that a "Tom Hanks movie," not the least because he shared much of the screen time with Tim Allen. DaVinci Code is clearly a Tom Hanks movie; so is Saving Private Ryan. He has been top billed in everything he has starred in since Splash.
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Thank no God that there was the EPL on U.S. TV this season. Best finish to a season ever, with Manchester City winning it all over Manchester United in literally the last four minutes of the season. WoE, which Premier League team, if any, do you support? (Feel free to hold off answering if you feel it will influence the results).

My intention was films where he was the headline act. Such as the ones mentioned above. But it became clear very early on that it was too vague. So for the purpose of the results, I will accept all answers that 'feature' him in one form or another, on screen or off screen.

To be honest, I dont really support any Premier League team, I like to see the under dogs do well, and hate that Manchester City claim to have won the League, yet the 'business' lost £190,000,000 last year. Hardly a success is it? My team used to Walsall, my hometown. But I moved to south coast for work, some 150 miles away. I spent many a Saturday on a train to nowhere leaving my flat at 6am, to see them get beat 5-0 and then get back home at midnight. The manager at the time was a guy called Paul Merson, who I know on a personal level, as he was a degenerate gambler and an awful poker player. He deserted the club to get treatment for other addictions, and we got relegated two seasons running. I didnt renew my season ticket and havent been to a match in years. I went to Wembley to see England play for a corperate event, and I was heavily involved with the construction of the stadium. But I much prefer to see it on TV these days. Much cheaper. A day out for two to a premier match can cost over £500 when you factor in tickets, travel, food, matchday programme etc. Im sure you could get it under £300 if your lucky, but it doesnt entertain me.

WoE can you get me a date with duffy.? ;) You both live on the same rock.

Quote: rainman

WoE can you get me a date with duffy.? ;) You both live on the same rock.

They were mad for her in the Riviera.
Shes Tom Jones' and Cerys Matthews love child.

We havent heard from her in years!!

Quote: WizardofEngland

They were mad for her in the Riviera.
Shes Tom Jones' and Cerys Matthews love child.

We havent heard from her in years!!

IS that true tom jone's love child? the tom jone's? or you messin with me?

Quote: rainman

IS that true tom jone's love child? the tom jone's? or you messin with me?

Lol Im messing with you.

But if you look up Tom Jones on youtube. Then Cerys Matthews. Then Duffy. You WILL see it.

Its a common English joke ;-)
Marge the dealer in the Riv believed me.

As inspiration for the next Black Sheep quiz, try to name the 27 least common country names from past quizzes.
Least Common countries

I found it very difficult, not the least because you are struggling to come up with the spellings of obscure country names. My score was a pitiful 6 names, but I am proud to say I got the bottom name.

The 27 countries are from around the world, but Africa is the most heavily represented, naturally. There are a lot of countries in Africa, and many people don't know them by name.

Bump for a few more entries. Come on Wiz, give it a go. ;-)

Quote: pacomartin

As inspiration for the next Black Sheep quiz, try to name the 27 least common country names from past quizzes.
Least Common countries

I found it very difficult, not the least because you are struggling to come up with the spellings of obscure country names. My score was a pitiful 6 names, but I am proud to say I got the bottom name.

The 27 countries are from around the world, but Africa is the most heavily represented, naturally. There are a lot of countries in Africa, and many people don't know them by name.

I only got three in the time allotted. I am surprised by one entry on the list since it is not a little island in the south seas, or an African state. Interestingly, one of the three I got was the bottom one too, but via an alternate name that the system recognized.

Results are in!

Quite possible there a small number of mistakes, if you feel your points are incorrect let me know and I will fix it.

Congratulations go to Din who scored an impressive 20 points.




Just to point out the errors;

Question 1) M is classed as Off-Strip.
Question 6) These songs were never US Number 1 singles, most surprising Thriller!
Question 8) Jim and Kunal are the actors, rather than the characters.
Question 9) wbuballa only has a temp ban.
Question 10) HK Duff is a one episode character. Although I have conflicting evidence to suggest so.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Question 10) HK Duff is a one episode character. Although I have conflicting evidence to suggest so.

According to IMDB, HK Duff appeared in three episodes.

WOE,
This is BY FAR the most fun I have had with any quiz/question I have taken part in in this forum! WELL DONE!

Looking over the answers is hilarious.

Apparently I am the only person who does not watch the Simpsons, since Homer, Bart, Lisa, or Marge would have all been a safe answer. That is so funny!

My first instinct for the casino was MGM or Tropicana, but then I got cute and decided Monte Carlo would be the way to go. Ouch! Over thought that one.

I do believe no research/google is the way to go, although that means the questions have to be pretty generic in nature, and would be quite hard to cross countries and still be fair.

Arg! Foiled by Casuarina. Should have known picking the most boring casino would backfire. And they were in the news lately. Also, what's with all the Fulham picks? Clint Dempsey that big?

That was fun, thanks.

Where is the Casuarina? I've never heard of it

Bravo WoE That was fun. One answer took me from the penthouse to the out house.

Quote: Beardgoat

Where is the Casuarina? I've never heard of it

EXACTLY!

Quote: Beardgoat

Where is the Casuarina? I've never heard of it

Never heard of it? Then follow Doc's Chip of the Day thread! Updated daily with your recomended daily allowance of astounding trivia ;)

The biggest surprise in this (IMO anyways) is there wasn't one repeating Simpsons answer.

Quote: teddys

Arg! Foiled by Casuarina. Should have known picking the most boring casino would backfire. And they were in the news lately. Also, what's with all the Fulham picks? Clint Dempsey that big?

That was fun, thanks.

Funny, I almost answered Casuarina, but I recalled reading something about it going out of business. Also, I'm surprised that the Rio is considered on the strip. Maybe the Orleans is too?

I almost guessed casino royale because I thought it was the smallest casino on the strip. Good thing I didnt! I looked up the casuarina on google and now that I have seen where it is I remember driving by a few times. Don't ever remember that name as I thought it was just a Westin hotel

Excellent game, WOE! Thanks for putting it together.

Congratulations to Din!

can't believe 'Billy Jean' scored big on the Michael Jackson!

and yes I thougth Fulham would score big!

Interesting notes that I see:

1) Question 10 had everybody come up with somebody different. That tells you the staying power of The Simpsons and how a show can have so many characters, yet doesn't feel overloaded.

2) It was possible to over think the casino list. I tried to go for a middling property that would seem obvious, but not TOO obvious. Luxor seemed good, though one person shared that one with me.

3) Questions 3 and 8 for me had only one answer, since I didn't know any of the others.

4) Question 5 did not have anybody answer Saving Private Ryan.

5) Question 7 had no answers for Burger King. These answers are also rather localized; for example, I'm from Nebraska, so Runza is an easy answer for me.

This was a good quiz. I'm still working on trying to figure out a way to get my Outburst game going here... be prepared in the next few weeks for some Musical Theater and College Football trivia.

A win on my first post. I barely won but I'll take that.

I love this sort of game. Thank you for organizing it WoE. If you do it again, I'd prefer a more restricted answer set--at most, say, 8-10 correct answers for each question. Maybe fewer to encourage more collisions. I think the audience on WoV makes this a particularly interesting game. I'd expect the general populace to go for more obvious answers, or maybe the least obvious. So for this crowd do you go for the second least obvious? Or the most obvious? Or something different?

My rationale for my answers:

1. Encore. I tried to pick a casino that most regular folks don't visit (north end of the strip, higher end crowd) that wasn't too obscure.
2. Perfect Charlie. I went to the blackjack page on WoO and picked randomly. There are so many options that I figured it didn't matter.
3. Aston Villa. I admit I had to look this one up. I didn't know any teams other than Arsenal and Manchester United.
4. Illinois. This was a tough question and one I thought I might be making a mistake on. Against my rules I went with the least obvious choice. I'm not surprised California and Texas were the lowest scores.
5. Volunteers. I didn't think about this at all. I have a strange affection for this movie. Tom Tuttle from Tacoma make me choose it and it's a fairly obscure movie.
6. Man in the Mirror. I'm not a big MJ fan so I chose this at random. I did look it up to verify it made it to #1. Count me in the group of people who didn't know that Thriller never made it to #1.
7. Taco John's. They don't have them where I live now but growing up I loved me some Potato Oles. The key to this one is a regional chain. I almost went with Whataburger but I'm glad I didn't.
8. Howard. The obscure pick is Raj so I avoided that. The popular pick would be Sheldon. I thought it was a toss up between Howard and Leonard and guessed.
9. i0r0tardod. I picked at random. I did check the list.
10. Uter. Don't ask me why I like that guy but I do. I also figured that with so many characters to choose from there wouldn't be many repeats. There weren't.

Quote: Beardgoat

I almost guessed casino royale because I thought it was the smallest casino on the strip. Good thing I didnt! I looked up the casuarina on google and now that I have seen where it is I remember driving by a few times. Don't ever remember that name as I thought it was just a Westin hotel

Last fiscal year the Nevada Gaming Commission reports on 41 gaming licenses for the Vegas strip that individually earned over $1 million for the 2011 fiscal year. In two cases there are licenses given separately to Sports Book operations at another casino. If the Sports Book makes over $1 million it is included in the list.

Stratosphere and Orleans are NOT considered Strip properties by the NGC. Palazzo and Encore are not considered separate licenses from Venetian and Wynn.

Casuarina has 265 slots and 8 table games

1 30814-01 ARIA RESORT & CASINO
2 01891-02 BALLY'S LAS VEGAS
3 00655-05 BELLAGIO
4 03005-04 BILL'S GAMBLIN' HALL & SALOON
5 01297-02 CAESARS PALACE
6 03619-04 CASINO ROYALE
7 00289-04 CASUARINA CASINO LAS VEGAS
8 02037-03 CIRCUS CIRCUS HOTEL
9 30955-01 COSMOPOLITAN OF LAS VEGAS
10 02077-03 ELLIS ISLAND CASINO
11 14727-01 EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO
12 00008-04 FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS/O'SHEAS
13 08524-01 GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO
14 17586-04 HARD ROCK HOTEL & CASINO
15 02689-01 HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS
16 02807-10 HOOTERS CASINO HOTEL
17 01177-04 IMPERIAL PALACE HOTEL
18 01998-04 LAS VEGAS HILTON
19 17041-01 LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO
20 00022-03 MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO
21 02982-07 MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO
22 11018-01 MIRAGE, THE
23 20682-01 MONTE CARLO RESORT & CASINO
24 19590-01 NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO
25 03149-02 PALACE STATION HOTEL (in City of LV)
26 26541-01 PALMS CASINO RESORT
27 30377-01 PARIS LAS VEGAS
28 01713-07 PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
29 13154-01 RIO SUITE HOTEL & CASINO
30 00015-04 RIVIERA HOTEL & CASINO
31 00944-05 SAHARA HOTEL & CASINO
32 04157-05 TERRIBLE'S HOTEL AND CASINO
33 16937-01 TREASURE ISLAND
34 00360-05 TROPICANA RESORT AND CASINO
35 12673-02 TUSCANY LAS VEGAS
36 01957-05 VENETIAN CASINO RESORT
37 03016-04 WILD WILD WEST GAMBLING HALL
38 01888-07 WYNN LAS VEGAS
39 30835-01 PALMS CASINO - SPORTS POOL
40 31204-01 COSMOPOLITAN OF LV RACE & SPORT
41 00793-03 AIRPORT SLOT CONCESSION

---------------------
Strip licenses that made over $72 million in fiscal year 2011

Las Vegas Strip
MGM Resorts Inc
1 30814-01 ARIA RESORT & CASINO
2 00655-05 BELLAGIO
3 14727-01 EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO
4 00022-03 MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO
5 02982-07 MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO
6 11018-01 MIRAGE, THE
7 20682-01 MONTE CARLO RESORT & CASINO
8 19590-01 NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO
9 17041-01 LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO

Ceasars Inc
10 01297-02 CAESARS PALACE
11 01891-02 BALLY'S LAS VEGAS
12 00008-04 FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS/O'SHEAS
13 02689-01 HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS
14 30377-01 PARIS LAS VEGAS
15 01713-07 PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
16 13154-01 RIO SUITE HOTEL & CASINO

Other Corporations
17 08524-01 GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO
18 03149-02 PALACE STATION HOTEL
19 26541-01 PALMS CASINO RESORT
20 16937-01 TREASURE ISLAND
21 01957-05 VENETIAN CASINO RESORT
22 01888-07 WYNN LAS VEGAS

I have to admit that I went with Illinois for the state, because I figured it was the only correct answer that most people would have to look up (because it is so close in size to Pennsylvania).

The low answer was the states ranked #2 and #4, and no one made any incorrect guesses. It's an interesting question to argue, similar to the Iocane Powder monologue.

black sheep	country	electoral votes	state
4	12.1%	55	California
3	8.1%	38	Texas
7	6.3%	29	New York
3	6.1%	29	Florida
6	4.2%	20	Illinois
	4.1%	20	Pennsylvania
	3.7%	18	Ohio

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the great comments. It was great fun putting together the questions. Even more fun seeing the results come in, and great fun compiling them. I hope to have another up in the next few days, with a few revisions, and maybe a small $$ reward for the winner. I will answer a few responses now.

Quote: Ayecarumba

According to IMDB, HK Duff appeared in three episodes.

Yeah your right :-( Sorry.
With a name like Ayecarumba I should of just gone with it ;-)
Ended up watching the episodes today.
To be fair, one mistake out of like 230 is not bad, and it would only make your score 1 less. Din was a full 3 points clear.

Quote: RaleighCraps

WOE,
This is BY FAR the most fun I have had with any quiz/question I have taken part in in this forum! WELL DONE!

Looking over the answers is hilarious.

Apparently I am the only person who does not watch the Simpsons, since Homer, Bart, Lisa, or Marge would have all been a safe answer. That is so funny!

My first instinct for the casino was MGM or Tropicana, but then I got cute and decided Monte Carlo would be the way to go. Ouch! Over thought that one.

I do believe no research/google is the way to go, although that means the questions have to be pretty generic in nature, and would be quite hard to cross countries and still be fair.

Thanks!

Yeah I noticed that about the Simpsons too, and there were only a handful I had to look up myself, The Evil Scientist seemed an obvious mistake, The Yes Guy, Anastasia and Birch Barlow were all unknowns to me. The winner of the best answer has to be Wongbo with God.

Its interesting that Bellagio, Planet Hollywood, MGM & Mirage didnt feature at all.

I am currently working on a new set of questions that should be even better. But for a first attempt, Im very happy.

Quote: teddys

Arg! Foiled by Casuarina. Should have known picking the most boring casino would backfire. And they were in the news lately. Also, what's with all the Fulham picks? Clint Dempsey that big?

That was fun, thanks.

The first two entries were both Casuarina, and I had never heard of it. (The answers are in the order they were received)

I have no idea about the Fulham answer. They are a small player in terms of the Premier League. A London team, but certainly not a big team.

Quote: rainman

Bravo WoE That was fun. One answer took me from the penthouse to the out house.

Luckily it wasnt a game winner, Din picked very well!

Quote: Face

Never heard of it? Then follow Doc's Chip of the Day thread! Updated daily with your recomended daily allowance of astounding trivia ;)

The biggest surprise in this (IMO anyways) is there wasn't one repeating Simpsons answer.

I did think we would get a few too, it wasnt until I collected them all that I realised.

Quote: odiousgambit

can't believe 'Billy Jean' scored big on the Michael Jackson!

and yes I thougth Fulham would score big!

Billy Jean was a great answer!

Why Fulham? Can you enlighten me? Do they get featured a lot over there?

Quote: Din

A win on my first post. I barely won but I'll take that.

I love this sort of game. Thank you for organizing it WoE. If you do it again, I'd prefer a more restricted answer set--at most, say, 8-10 correct answers for each question. Maybe fewer to encourage more collisions. I think the audience on WoV makes this a particularly interesting game. I'd expect the general populace to go for more obvious answers, or maybe the least obvious. So for this crowd do you go for the second least obvious? Or the most obvious? Or something different?

I am currently working on a new question set, so stay tuned, hopefully be up sometime tomorrow! Glad you enjoyed it, and congratulations.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Billy Jean was a great answer!

Why Fulham? Can you enlighten me? Do they get featured a lot over there?

well, surely it's clear that 'Billy Jean' risked several also having that. Fulham must have struck everybody who used it as a good obscure team, too good evidently.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Billy Jean was a great answer!

Why Fulham? Can you enlighten me? Do they get featured a lot over there?

I had only heard of Manchester United. Since I don't watch TV or keep up with sports, I can only imagine that this is a well known name. I may have done as well as I did on this one only because others chose obscure names.