Covid vaccine poll
Poll
 | 11 votes (15.94%) | ||
| | 45 votes (65.21%) | ||
| | 13 votes (18.84%) |
69 members have voted
Quote: darkozYou mean the government that sent officers two blocks with tear gas and rubber bullets to disperse a peaceful BLM protest six months ago but was taking selfies and didn't raise a weapon against white protestors until they were pretty much marching through the capitol?
Perhaps watch this video taken a few days after the capitol riots and you will see how people of color are feeling towards today's government
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/13/us/capitol-riots-black-lives-matter-cori-bush/index.html
In keeping with Wiz's 'no politics' rule, this will be my last post on this subject. I do not care if people are stupid enough to think the government is targeting a specific racial group in this vaccine rollout. There is way LESS evidence to support that thought than there is.... on ANY reasonable theory you can mention about pretty much ANYTHING! You can't fix stupid.
Quote: SOOPOOIn keeping with Wiz's 'no politics' rule, this will be my last post on this subject.
Following this thread over the past few days, I think that our minders have taken some time off.
As I remember my mother telling me... Wait till The Wizard gets home!
Quote: SOOPOOIn keeping with Wiz's 'no politics' rule, this will be my last post on this subject. I do not care if people are stupid enough to think the government is targeting a specific racial group in this vaccine rollout. There is way LESS evidence to support that thought than there is.... on ANY reasonable theory you can mention about pretty much ANYTHING! You can't fix stupid.
Agreed.
But this thread is about the vaccine rollout.
How it won't be as effective if the populace doesn't comply with taking it.
Large groups of people are against taking it mainly through mistrust.
The government is doing the rollout. The government is being mistrusted. (It's not just a black issue, AZ mistrusts them too)
Difficult to discuss some aspects of government in that scenario imo
Breaking News: Rush Limbaugh died. I haven't heard if he froze to death, or died of Stage 4 lung cancer, or COVID.
So now we are getting into studies of immunity from vaccines and currently they are saying you can expect immunity for at least 3 months, maybe as much as 6 months. Why do I have a feeling it is going to come down exactly the same as natural immunity at about 6 months, which is not a long time. Are we going to have to get continuous vaccinations every 6 months?, (even more frequent than the annual flu shot)
The only positive POSSIBILTY, I read several times is that t-cell memory may retain even after antibodies and immunity wane, meaning upon re-infection, the body could ramp up defense quicker than the initial infection, would while it wouldn't prevent new infections, could result in less severe cases, less hospitalizations and less death. Still to early to tell.
Forum Docs, please tell me why my assumption might be wrong?
You probably have no circulating antibodies for ANY communicable disease for which you've been previously vaccinated. You have T cells which have memory for these antigens and B cells which produce antibodies on instruction from T cells.
Think about Measles or German Measles or Chicken Pox or Pertussis, etc. These are all diseases you were vaccinated for as a kid. Why haven't you been reinfected with those diseases? You no longer have circulating antibodies to them.
Quote: 21formeWhy haven't you been reinfected with those diseases?
Well, this would be my definition of immunity. In this case that we can't get re-infected. But that doesn't seem to be what they are saying based on these recent studies.
Now, if we can't achieve the "can't be reinfected status", I would be very comfortable with a less severe infection, symptoms and outcome.
Unfortunately they are not there yet either, as I read it. It just is too early to tell.
But I think the idea that many people have, that we have a vaccine and once you are vaccinated, this all goes away, is just wrong right now. And that concerns me as well.
Here in Nevada, they have just started to re-open everything. The strip casinos and hotel that have only been open on weekends are now staying open. Occupancy levels at restaurants, casinos....everything were just increased. They are talking about allowing fans into the Golden Knights games. It is just like they have decided this is over, when I don't think it is. Cases have dropped some off of the extreme highs after holiday gatherings. That is where we are. nothing more. YET
Quote: kewljWell, this would be my definition of immunity. In this case that we can't get re-infected. But that doesn't seem to be what they are saying based on these recent studies.
I agree with your definition of immunity. In general, circulating antibodies aren't necessary. It's the white blood cells (T and B cells) that do the job in the longer term.
Quote: kewljI am growing concerned about the period of immunity from a vaccine. Last night I was reading a number of studies completed in the past 2 months about natural immunity after someone has recovered from the virus. Almost universally, all the studies concluded the natural immunity lasted just about 6 months. One outlier out of England concluded 8 months.
So now we are getting into studies of immunity from vaccines and currently they are saying you can expect immunity for at least 3 months, maybe as much as 6 months. Why do I have a feeling it is going to come down exactly the same as natural immunity at about 6 months, which is not a long time. Are we going to have to get continuous vaccinations every 6 months?, (even more frequent than the annual flu shot)
The only positive POSSIBILTY, I read several times is that t-cell memory may retain even after antibodies and immunity wane, meaning upon re-infection, the body could ramp up defense quicker than the initial infection, would while it wouldn't prevent new infections, could result in less severe cases, less hospitalizations and less death. Still to early to tell.
Forum Docs, please tell me why my assumption might be wrong?
There are zero cases of vaccinated people being hospitalized from getting COVID, so it seems like benefits may wane but still be beneficial for a long time. It’s been a while since trials now.
Quote: mcallister3200There are zero cases of vaccinated people being hospitalized from getting COVID, so it seems like benefits may wane but still be beneficial for a long time. It’s been a while since trials now.
"a while"?? The trials were last fall. It is February. Hasn't even been 6 months yet.
As soon as everyone that wants a vaccine could have gotten it, then ‘normalcy’ should return.
For one thing a successful therapeutic means you need several hundred thousand doses as it's administered when sick (but eliminates the death and illness in theory).
A vaccine requires HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of doses to be effective and then only until a new resistant variant comes along.
Which is proving to be faster than the vaccines can even be distributed much less perfected.
Fauci said a few days ago people who already were sick with Covid were reinfected and made sick by the South African variant which is now here in the US.
The British variant is here in over 40 states now and is both more contagious and more deadly
7 new American variants have now been detected
Unfortunately most of America wanted an all-out cure and bought into Big Pharma chomping at the bit for billion dollar cash cows. They held back the development of Leronlimab at the expense of American lives
Quote: kewlj"a while"?? The trials were last fall. It is February. Hasn't even been 6 months yet.
They concluded in the fall. They were going on in the spring and summer. That’s 3/4 of a year for early participants.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1258198
Quote: kewljAre we going to have to get continuous vaccinations every 6 months?, (even more frequent than the annual flu shot)
Wouldn't bother me if we had to get them every 3 months. Beats the current situation by a long shot.
Quote: rxwineWouldn't bother me if we had to get them every 3 months. Beats the current situation by a long shot.
There is no way they will be able to keep up.
A) making new variant vaccines
B) innoculating hundreds of millions of people (oh, and that's just America. Worldwide with today's global travel, if you haven't vaccinated the world, it's not going to work.)
That's why we have South African, British strains already here
Quote: darkozThere is no way they will be able to keep up.
A) making new variant vaccines
B) innoculating hundreds of millions of people (oh, and that's just America. Worldwide with today's global travel, if you haven't vaccinated the world, it's not going to work.)
That's why we have South African, British strains already here
There seems to be some fear this disease will somehow have more lingering impact than other infectious diseases have had. I don't even know where that comes from.
It's certainly not based on the historical record.
Quote: darkozI invested in a therapuetic (Leronlimab) because I saw the writing on the wall.
For one thing a successful therapeutic means you need several hundred thousand doses as it's administered when sick (but eliminates the death and illness in theory).
A vaccine requires HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of doses to be effective and then only until a new resistant variant comes along.
Which is proving to be faster than the vaccines can even be distributed much less perfected.
Fauci said a few days ago people who already were sick with Covid were reinfected and made sick by the South African variant which is now here in the US.
The British variant is here in over 40 states now and is both more contagious and more deadly
7 new American variants have now been detected
Unfortunately most of America wanted an all-out cure and bought into Big Pharma chomping at the bit for billion dollar cash cows. They held back the development of Leronlimab at the expense of American lives
Who held back development of Leronlimab? Citation (not to a company press release) please. Are you saying that drug works and the FDA is just refusing to ok it? Come on.
Although I have a friend in Philadelphia, owns a bar, who is late 50's with high risk conditions. The 16-64 with conditions has been eligible in Pa for several weeks, but he couldn't find an appointment. He finally found and scheduled an appointment in Allentown, which is more than an hour away for next week. And today they called and cancelled his appointment, because they are out of vaccines.
So being eligible guarantees you nothing.
Quote: kewlj
Here in Nevada, they have just started to re-open everything. The strip casinos and hotel that have only been open on weekends are now staying open. Occupancy levels at restaurants, casinos....everything were just increased. They are talking about allowing fans into the Golden Knights games. It is just like they have decided this is over, when I don't think it is. Cases have dropped some off of the extreme highs after holiday gatherings. That is where we are. nothing more. YET
Good for Nevada, life must go on. Waiting fore perfect is not going to cut it.
Quote: unJonWho held back development of Leronlimab? Citation (not to a company press release) please. Are you saying that drug works and the FDA is just refusing to ok it? Come on.
What I am saying is that an intricate web driven by greed is going to eventually come out into the open once the dust settles.
What I am saying is that the FDA receives it's primary source of income from big pharma which has billions to lose if a wonder drug like Leronlimab works
The FDA has "slow-walked" the drug while big pharma has worked on short stock manipulation of Cytodyn to kill a company that could cost them billions
I sound like a conspiracy nut which is why I am hesitant to continue. But as I followed the process I became more and more convinced. There are things that occurred that made no sense
But these things will come out in the future and that's when public info Will validate my beliefs
Quote: darkozWhat I am saying is that an intricate web driven by greed is going to eventually come out into the open once the dust settles.
What I am saying is that the FDA receives it's primary source of income from big pharma which has billions to lose if a wonder drug like Leronlimab works
The FDA has "slow-walked" the drug while big pharma has worked on short stock manipulation of Cytodyn to kill a company that could cost them billions
I sound like a conspiracy nut which is why I am hesitant to continue. But as I followed the process I became more and more convinced. There are things that occurred that made no sense
But these things will come out in the future and that's when public info Will validate my beliefs
If true that would be completely insane. And irrational for big pharma. Too much downside risk given Covid overlay. And not expensive to just buy the company, especially late last year.
Quote: ChumpChangeWe'll have drug resistant COVID in 3 years.
Chump.... your post hurts my brain!!! WE HAVE DRUG RESISTANT COVID NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we DIDN'T, we wouldn't be even talking about it! There is no drug that consistently and reliably cures someone who has COVID, so hence, it IS drug resistant!
Quote: unJonIf true that would be completely insane. And irrational for big pharma. Too much downside risk given Covid overlay. And not expensive to just buy the company, especially late last year.
BINGO! If it was that good, J and J, Pfizer, Lily, etc... would have ALREADY bought either CYDY, or at least bought the right to make it. Moderna was a little nothing until it hit the jackpot. CYDY could have done the same. Its Leronlimab is one of a dozen similar drugs that end in ..ab. I think that hospitals are using those drugs right now. Do I know for sure that your conspiracy theory is not true? No, but it just doesn't make sense.
Edit... I was responding to darkoz mostly, not unJon.
Quote: SOOPOOBINGO! If it was that good, J and J, Pfizer, Lily, etc... would have ALREADY bought either CYDY, or at least bought the right to make it. Moderna was a little nothing until it hit the jackpot. CYDY could have done the same. Its Leronlimab is one of a dozen similar drugs that end in ..ab. I think that hospitals are using those drugs right now. Do I know for sure that your conspiracy theory is not true? No, but it just doesn't make sense.
Edit... I was responding to darkoz mostly, not unJon.
Yeah, conspiracy theories never make sense.
Until suddenly they do.
(I am not a conspiracy theorist and have been hesitant to even mention this one. Again, truth will prove me wrong or right when it comes out)
Quote: darkozYeah, conspiracy theories never make sense.
Until suddenly they do.
Even paranoids have enemies.
Quote: unJonEven paranoids have enemies.
Yes, this hurts because I am a conspiracy theorist debunker and here I am, (able to recognize) what I am claiming amounts to a conspiracy.
Soopoo says it makes no sense.
An actual conspiracy usually survives by not making sense. Then suddenly it does. As everything comes out into the open
If I had claimed Bill Cosby was a rapist ten years ago most forum members would have said it makes no sense he raped dozens of women and had no repercussions.
Some things don't make sense. Until they do.
Quote: darkoz
Some things don't make sense. Until they do.
True. Butttttttt...... MOST things that make no sense..... NEVER end up making sense. It's why they didn't make sense in the first place!
By the way, EVEN IF you are correct, the likelihood of there being clear enough evidence that will ever be made public is VERY unlikely!
Quote: SOOPOOSo the government of Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Keisha Lance Bottoms, Warnock, Neguse, Tim Scott, Byron Brown, Stacey Abrams,etc.... are anti Black. Got it.....
Wow, you managed to name a half dozen people, one who isn't in government and one who you evidently know their full name.
I bet you could name 100 black athletes but can't even name a dozen blacks actually in government. Interesting.
Quote: billryanWow, you managed to name a half dozen people, one who isn't in government and one who you evidently know their full name.
I bet you could name 100 black athletes but can't even name a dozen blacks actually in government. Interesting.
LOL! As I was typing it... I asked my wife what Warnock's first name was! I kept saying Ralph, but knew it didn't sound correct! As far as Neguse, I saw his name multiple times, but Joe just didn't stick. If you are saying Stacey Abrams is not in government, I guess you are technically correct. But she is more involved in Democrat Government policy than 99.99% of the rest of us. My point is this.... "nowadays", people of color are involved in all levels of government, while at the time of the Tuskeegee experiments, they weren't.
I am not sure, but if you allow retired athletes, I could get to 1,000!
Quote: billryanWow, you managed to name a half dozen people, one who isn't in government and one who you evidently know their full name.
I bet you could name 100 black athletes but can't even name a dozen blacks actually in government. Interesting.
Some people follow sports more than they do politics? I could probably also name 100 white athletes for every dozen white active politicians I could name.
Quote: SOOPOOSo the government of Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Keisha Lance Bottoms, Warnock, Neguse, Tim Scott, Byron Brown, Stacey Abrams,etc.... are anti Black. Got it.....
The country of slavery, lynching's, and segregation was definitely racist. Any government that allowed those things is/was racist. Given that there are Americans alive today who saw some of that, it is very likely that there are effects of those things continue to linger. There are also other things, like the war on drugs, for profit prisons, and qualified immunity for violent government workers, that can allow for even the smallest parts of racism in the country to seep in to parts of our government. Being able to list a few names of contemporary politicians who have similar skin color of previous and/or current victims of racism does not change that.
Quote: TomGThe country of slavery, lynching's, and segregation was definitely racist. Any government that allowed those things is/was racist. Given that there are Americans alive today who saw some of that, it is very likely that there are effects of those things continue to linger. There are also other things, like the war on drugs, for profit prisons, and qualified immunity for violent government workers, that can allow for even the smallest parts of racism in the country to seep in to parts of our government. Being able to list a few names of contemporary politicians who have similar skin color of previous and/or current victims of racism does not change that.
You might want to follow babe expat retirement thread at DT.
Quote: TomGThe country of slavery, lynching's, and segregation was definitely racist. Any government that allowed those things is/was racist. Given that there are Americans alive today who saw some of that, it is very likely that there are effects of those things continue to linger. There are also other things, like the war on drugs, for profit prisons, and qualified immunity for violent government workers, that can allow for even the smallest parts of racism in the country to seep in to parts of our government. Being able to list a few names of contemporary politicians who have similar skin color of previous and/or current victims of racism does not change that.
I guess I live in the present. I’m a Jew. I am aware historically both Christians and Muslims have wanted my ancestors dead, or at least enslaved. Not too long ago the government of Germany was trying to eliminate all Jews if possible. But I have moved on. I had Muslim partners. German friends. Heck, I’m married to a Christian! I live today, and do not blame the long ago groups for their attempt to eradicate my people from the planet. I expect the same from African Americans today, and the people in power (add Obama!) should lead them to not feel they are being singled out to take a ‘bad’ vaccine.
Quote: SOOPOOI guess I live in the present.
If you believe racism no longer exists, that means you are living in a different present than many other people.
I don't know how we went from vaccines to this, but you brought the idea that certain people in politics signal racism must have ended.
Quote: TomGIf you believe racism no longer exists, that means you are living in a different present than many other people.
I don't know how we went from vaccines to this, but you brought the idea that certain people in politics signal racism must have ended.
Feels like we are out of bounds at this point, but I’ll chime in anyway in a non political way. I read Soopoo to be making a comment on Tuskegee not more generally about racism.
Quote: TomGIf you believe racism no longer exists, that means you are living in a different present than many other people.
I don't know how we went from vaccines to this, but you brought the idea that certain people in politics signal racism must have ended.
When did I say racism has ended? The fact that there are Blacks that hate Whites because of their color, and Whites that hate Blacks because of their color, does not change the fact that since Tuskegee there are many Blacks in the highest levels of government NOW. And that was not true THEN.
If you tell me that systemic racism is FAVORING whites to get the shot over blacks, that I couldn’t argue with you. I’ve given my own story that even supports that idea. If you tell me that somehow the big bad government is somehow using a vaccine to adversely affect blacks, you are (suspension avoided).
I got my first dose of vaccine yesterday. Since I come here for all my scientifically accurate medical information...
Once I get my second dose, and sufficient time has gone by so as to make me "immune" in so far as the vaccine is concerned,
1). Am I, or can I become, someone who transmits the virus? Assuming I come in contact with the virus and it enters my system, can I pass it on to someone else even though I myself am immune? Ignore for the moment various strains that my vaccine might not address.
2). What is the point in my wearing a mask? I am immune, so what's the harm to ME if I am not wearing a mask? Why aren't we supposed to wear masks for all of the other aerosol-transmitted diseases like the flu, assuming the availability of effective vaccines?
I'm not interested in fanning the flames here, but surprisingly I don't trust the conventional sources of information like this, since as we know every single source has its own agenda and purpose besides providing accurate answers.
That said, what do YOU think?
Quote: fantomAttempting in some small way to bring this thread back to its title (and we all know how successful that is...)
I got my first dose of vaccine yesterday. Since I come here for all my scientifically accurate medical information...
Once I get my second dose, and sufficient time has gone by so as to make me "immune" in so far as the vaccine is concerned,
1). Am I, or can I become, someone who transmits the virus? Assuming I come in contact with the virus and it enters my system, can I pass it on to someone else even though I myself am immune? Ignore for the moment various strains that my vaccine might not address. YES, you can.
2). What is the point in my wearing a mask? I am immune, so what's the harm to ME if I am not wearing a mask? Why aren't we supposed to wear masks for all of the other aerosol-transmitted diseases like the flu, assuming the availability of effective vaccines? You are not immune, but you will be able to fight the virus much better if you get it because your body will recognize it instantly and jump into action.
I'm not interested in fanning the flames here, but surprisingly I don't trust the conventional sources of information like this, since as we know every single source has its own agenda and purpose besides providing accurate answers.
That said, what do YOU think?
ugh..sorry, answers are within the quote.
There's no evidence that you wouldn't be a virus spreader after a COVID vaccination, that may come later. This is a deadly plague much worse than the flu. Millions could die, and if I see the CNN tote board again, millions have died worldwide. The vaccine is being touted as protection against severe illness, not no illness at all. This virus could give you lifelong impairments, vaccine or not.
Other countries have allowed wearing facemasks for decades. In America it's seen as a reason to hit the silent alarm to call the police in every store & bank, until last year.
I'm getting spam from K-Mart & Sears to buy N-95 masks, but they don't have my favorite footwear because they're almost out of business.
Quote: fantomAttempting in some small way to bring this thread back to its title (and we all know how successful that is...)
I got my first dose of vaccine yesterday. Since I come here for all my scientifically accurate medical information...
Once I get my second dose, and sufficient time has gone by so as to make me "immune" in so far as the vaccine is concerned,
1). Am I, or can I become, someone who transmits the virus? Assuming I come in contact with the virus and it enters my system, can I pass it on to someone else even though I myself am immune? Ignore for the moment various strains that my vaccine might not address.
2). What is the point in my wearing a mask? I am immune, so what's the harm to ME if I am not wearing a mask? Why aren't we supposed to wear masks for all of the other aerosol-transmitted diseases like the flu, assuming the availability of effective vaccines?
I'm not interested in fanning the flames here, but surprisingly I don't trust the conventional sources of information like this, since as we know every single source has its own agenda and purpose besides providing accurate answers.
That said, what do YOU think?
1. It is not clear. We WANT it to be, but there is no evidence yet that you cannot transmit the virus if you are 'immune'.
2. The experts tell us that wearing a mask does not prevent you from getting the disease, but decreases the chances of you transmitting the disease to someone else. I personally believe that wearing a mask must offer you SOME protection, of course, how much is not known. having observed people wearing masks, there are just so many who for large periods of time either do not cover their nose or mouthm using the word 'wear' is questionable.
And by the way, those that say things like there aren't really more deaths, but now everything is being called covid deaths, this life expectancy number shoots a hole in that too. For the number to have changed a full year there has to be significantly more death at younger age than "normal".
Quote: SOOPOOThe decrease in life expectancy is shocking. A full year is a LOT. But in the article I read it was a tad ambiguous. Said life expectancy should return to normal in a year or two. I am not sure how to assess this information.
I's assess it as sheep food news. One year change in life expectancy? About 0.5% of the population dies of the virus if you buy that it is the cause and not just a factor. It hits people over the average life expectancy. And really, don't they weigh years of data before changing it so that a one or two year blip does not cause a major shift?
Now that I think about it, when vaccines are finally widely available, I'd be for doubling the cost of people who need healthcare for covid infections who can't prove they are medically prevented from getting the vaccine and didn't get one.
A great way to start recouping the cost of the pandemic.
Quote: rxwineElsewhere there is a small discussion of raising prices, when you can, even if the shortage is due to a disaster and people are more desperate.
Now that I think about it, when vaccines are finally widely available, I'd be for doubling the cost of people who need healthcare for covid infections who can't prove they are medically prevented from getting the vaccine and didn't get one.
A great way to start recouping the cost of the pandemic.
And charge smokers more. And charge the obese more. And charge alcoholics more. And charge motorcyclists more. And....
Quote: SOOPOOAnd charge smokers more. And charge the obese more. And charge alcoholics more. And charge motorcyclists more. And....
Possibly smokers and motorcyclists already may get some or all offset credit through paying extra insurance premiums.
