Why you should leave WOV
And . . . Zorro spelled backwards is Orr Oz. Very suspicious.
Here is Zorro/DarkOz fighting the evil casinos
https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/on-advantage-play-and-tribalism-part-5/
(Much shorter article, folks)
Quote: EvenBob.................to be an author.............
I have no comment on his book
but I can tell you from being a Supervisor at Borders Books for many years that for a great many authors, almost surely the majority, what they make for their efforts amounts to less than and usually way less than minimum wage considering the hours they put in to it
for so many it's mainly an ego stroke, and also to be fair to them they feel they have something important to say that needs to be said
also, to be fair to them, the powers that be in publishing often overlook books of value and feature and push books that are so bad that after reading a few pages you're going to feel nauseous
I worked at a gigantic, high volume store - the 2nd highest volume bookstore in the country
I can't tell you how many authors visited the store and asked me how many of their books were sold in the last year (when we carried their books)
and I had to tell them zero were sold in the last year
Quote: lilredroosterI have no comment on his book
but I can tell you from being a Supervisor at Borders Books for many years that for a great many authors, almost surely the majority, what they make for their efforts amounts to less than and usually way less than minimum wage considering the hours they put in to it
for so many it's mainly an ego stroke, and also to be fair to them they feel they have something important to say that needs to be said
also, to be fair to them, the powers that be in publishing often overlook books of value and feature and push books that are so bad that after reading a few pages you're going to feel nauseous
I worked at a gigantic, high volume store - the 2nd highest volume bookstore in the country
I can't tell you how many authors visited the store and asked me how many of their books were sold in the last year (when we carried their books)
and I had to tell them zero were sold in the last year
Very true words
Yes, indeed probably about one percent of authors make enough from just their book sales to make a living
The APs on here seem to point this out as some type of gauge that going into book publishing and being a writer is not worth it.
The irony is we all agree there are only about one percent of gamblers who can make a consistent and decent living from gambling as well.
Also true of music.
Also true of painting.
The market for creative arts is brutally difficult.
I am not implying that being an AP is a creative art.
Quote: gordonm888
Also true of music.
The market for creative arts is brutally difficult.
anybody in Vegas can check out the buskers (street musicians) and more than any other city I've been in - some, not all or course, are fantastic
they're definitely playing at a high professional level
and relegated to doing that on the street - so very sad
Quote: lilredroosteranybody in Vegas can check out the buskers (street musicians) and more than any other city I've been in - some, not all or course, are fantastic
they're definitely playing at a high professional level
and relegated to doing that on the street - so very sad
Becoming a famous musician is way more about luck than talent...being in the right place at the right time, and knowing the right people.
Quote: TigerWuBecoming a famous musician is way more about luck than talent...being in the right place at the right time, and knowing the right people.
And wanting to be a famous musician. Some people just don't want to be famous, they wish they could for the recognition, but don't want to give up a normal life. In the quote, you quoted, I'd say maybe a free burger you appreciate if it's free, but for $25, it's terrible. Plus, the looks portion, the gate keeper opinions, there aren't many of them, but if enough mess up, you'll never hear from the musicians they reject. I guess that qualifies under luck and who you know.
Quote: gordonm888
Also true of painting.
The market for creative arts is brutally difficult.
Painting is weird. Heard a story on NPR
about a painter 15 years ago who said
an old Black guy had given him dozens
of small paintings he had done and he'd
never seen him again. People who saw
them loved them and said he should
have a show. He did, and included the
story of how he got the paintings in
the show invitations.
It was almost a sellout. 10's of thousands
of dollars. It turns out, of course, that the
story was a lie, the middle aged White
guy had painted them all himself and
most of the buyers wanted their money
back.
So when they thought the artist was an
old anonymous Black guy, the paintings
were awesome and examples of a super
talent. When the truth came out, they were
just mundane pieces done by a hack.
What does this tell us about 'art'.
Quote: EvenBob
What does this tell us about 'art'.
I dunno. In the eyes of the beholder I guess.
Quote: EvenBobPainting is weird. Heard a story on NPR
about a painter 15 years ago who said
an old Black guy had given him dozens
of small paintings he had done and he'd
never seen him again. People who saw
them loved them and said he should
have a show. He did, and included the
story of how he got the paintings in
the show invitations.
It was almost a sellout. 10's of thousands
of dollars. It turns out, of course, that the
story was a lie, the middle aged White
guy had painted them all himself and
most of the buyers wanted their money
back.
So when they thought the artist was an
old anonymous Black guy, the paintings
were awesome and examples of a super
talent. When the truth came out, they were
just mundane pieces done by a hack.
What does this tell us about 'art'.
It tells us people don't want to buy forgeries or misrepresented items.
It also tells us people were horrified that a middle-aged white guy was racist enough to feel his painting's were better if he claimed a black guy had talent and playing a race card infuriated the buyers
Quote: EvenBob
What does this tell us about 'art'.
That story tells us more about people than it does art.
Quote: darkoz
It also tells us people were horrified that a middle-aged white guy was racist enough to feel his painting's were better if he claimed a black guy had talent and playing a race card infuriated the buyers
AP
Quote: darkoz
It also tells us people were horrified that a middle-aged white guy was racist enough to feel his painting's were better if he claimed a black guy had talent and playing a race card infuriated the buyers
If anything, the people wanting the refund were more racist... "Look at these amazing paintings by a black man! Oh, a white guy did it? Nevermind."
Haha... it's somehow racist to blacks AND whites... to blacks because it holds them to a lower standard ("these paintings were good when I thought a black guy did them"), and to whites because it holds them to a higher standard ("a white guy did this? They should be better").
Quote: lilredroosteranybody in Vegas can check out the buskers (street musicians) and more than any other city I've been in - some, not all or course, are fantastic
they're definitely playing at a high professional level
and relegated to doing that on the street - so very sad
They spend their days doing what they love. If they wanted to be doing something else, they would. I'd play all week before I worked a day as a front desk clerk.
There is a guitar player in Bisbee who spends hours each day standing on the corner playing. She makes a few bucks an hour but the satisfaction she gets when she makes people smile is worth it.
One of my favorite musicians graduated from Juliard and " wasted" his life playing in bars and small clubs. At one point, he took a job cleaning animal cages in order to keep playing. He loved his life. I'm sure he wished he sold a few more records and that he toured before bigger crowds, but when Rolling Stone named his band one of the best bands no one ever heard of, or when bands like Kiss and the Dead wanted them to open for them, he embraced the moment. Thing is, he says he enjoyed performing in front of thirty people as well as in front of 20,000.
Quote: TigerWuIf anything, the people wanting the refund were more racist... "Look at these amazing paintings by a black man! Oh, a white guy did it? Nevermind."
Haha... it's somehow racist to blacks AND whites... to blacks because it holds them to a lower standard ("these paintings were good when I thought a black guy did them"), and to whites because it holds them to a higher standard ("a white guy did this? They should be better").
Or they wanted nothing to do with racist linked artwork.
Or the now public scandal tainted the artwork so that the value severely degraded and people felt cheated
Quote: TigerWuIf anything, the people wanting the refund were more racist... "Look at these amazing paintings by a black man! Oh, a white guy did it? Nevermind."
Haha... it's somehow racist to blacks AND whites... to blacks because it holds them to a lower standard ("these paintings were good when I thought a black guy did them"), and to whites because it holds them to a higher standard ("a white guy did this? They should be better").
No, that's unfair, I think.
There's this whole school of collectables for the black artists that did portraits and life scenes as slaves or freedman from the 19th and early 20th century. There's a particular look to them, and they're tough to authenticate because a lot were anonymous, others were not known names, and it's a general subgenre of American artists, nor a small group or single artist.
A lot of those artists did them in exchange for a meal or a few dollars, but they represent an untold POV of their world, so the history is important, and some had a natural skill for composition or subject that increased the value as art, not just storytelling from people without cameras.
There was a big jump in the values of that art, IMO started by The Cosby Show in the early 80s, where they had several hanging in the house, and started a conversation about them in a couple plot lines.
So, given the circumstances (crude techniques, no or little provenance, newly discovered value, easily gotten materials and paint), it would be too tempting to paint in that style with similar subjects and pass them off as a previously unknown POC artist. I doubt the guy was the only fake. And the art was specific as to race and background, which was intrinsic to its value, so I don't think people who bought the con, regardless of THEIR race, were being racist. They were just being pigeons.
So he went out and hired a bunch of actors and shot a video that appeared to the the actors performing the song. Record companies fell over each other to sign a band with such a new sound.
To make it even stranger, the B side of the single was supposedly a cover of the Alarms biggest hit, 68 Guns but was actually an early demo of the song from twenty years before.
Song was top twenty before Peters exposed it.
They made a movie based on it.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: TigerWuIf anything, the people wanting the refund were more racist... "Look at these amazing paintings by a black man! Oh, a white guy did it? Nevermind."
Haha... it's somehow racist to blacks AND whites... to blacks because it holds them to a lower standard ("these paintings were good when I thought a black guy did them"), and to whites because it holds them to a higher standard ("a white guy did this? They should be better").
No, that's unfair, I think.
There's this whole school of collectables for the black artists that did portraits and life scenes as slaves or freedman from the 19th and early 20th century. There's a particular look to them, and they're tough to authenticate because a lot were anonymous, others were not known names, and it's a general subgenre of American artists, nor a small group or single artist.
A lot of those artists did them in exchange for a meal or a few dollars, but they represent an untold POV of their world, so the history is important, and some had a natural skill for composition or subject that increased the value as art, not just storytelling from people without cameras.
There was a big jump in the values of that art, IMO started by The Cosby Show in the early 80s, where they had several hanging in the house, and started a conversation about them in a couple plot lines.
So, given the circumstances (crude techniques, no or little provenance, newly discovered value, easily gotten materials and paint), it would be too tempting to paint in that style with similar subjects and pass them off as a previously unknown POC artist. I doubt the guy was the only fake. And the art was specific as to race and background, which was intrinsic to its value, so I don't think people who bought the con, regardless of THEIR race, were being racist. They were just being pigeons.
Okay, well that makes a lot more sense.
Quote: beachbumbabs
No, that's unfair, I think.
There's this whole school of collectables for the black artists that did portraits and life scenes as slaves or freedman from the 19th and early 20th century. There's a particular look to them, and they're tough to authenticate because a lot were anonymous, others were not known names, and it's a general subgenre of American artists, nor a small group or single artist.
A lot of those artists did them in exchange for a meal or a few dollars, but they represent an untold POV of their world, so the history is important, and some had a natural skill for composition or subject that increased the value as art, not just storytelling from people without cameras.
There was a big jump in the values of that art, IMO started by The Cosby Show in the early 80s, where they had several hanging in the house, and started a conversation about them in a couple plot lines.
So, given the circumstances (crude techniques, no or little provenance, newly discovered value, easily gotten materials and paint), it would be too tempting to paint in that style with similar subjects and pass them off as a previously unknown POC artist. I doubt the guy was the only fake. And the art was specific as to race and background, which was intrinsic to its value, so I don't think people who bought the con, regardless of THEIR race, were being racist. They were just being pigeons.
I hadn't even considered this. I didn't know. Thanks for info and point of view.
link?Quote: darkozYes, now go out and buy my book.
Its on Amazon
I am not the one who is fearful on here obviously
And for my opinion.
If darkoz did the legwork for his NY casino play, then it's his perogative to expose it.
As for people leaving wov:
What does that do? You're punishing the wiz.
In the Vegas talk forums, people are posting #s all the time.
But yet, people are still posting there.
And I predict people will still keep posting here
Quote: darkozIt tells us people don't want to buy forgeries or misrepresented items.
So art has nothing to do with talent, then.
That's what I thought.
Quote: 100xOddslink?
e
You should buy it, you'd be the
the first. I'm not kidding..
Quote: WizardI've always wanted a drawing by somebody on death row with nothing to do but draw, like the character in Monster's Ball. I assume it's difficult to get one because you're not supposed to be allowed to run a business from prison.
Well, maybe. But about a year ago I saw an article online from the Los Angeles Times. There was a picture of every one of the then 733 condemned inmates. You could hover your mouse over any of them and it would give you the date entering the Dept. of Corrections, what county each was from, and then the details of what got them in this spot. You might not want to eat dinner after spending hours reading this piece. I'll see if I can find a link. No matter how much one might expect to find some pretty shocking details, I propose you would STILL be greatly surprised, surprised at what monsters many of them are. Not human. To further add insult to injury, many of them have been waiting for their DAY, since the 80s. Of course, their victims have been in the ground that long. But how can someone appeal a conviction for 30 years? There are statistics on how many have died of old age, peacefully in their sleep. Now that's just not right. For instance, the first name I clicked randomly, I got "lucky". He had killed the woman's two little girls, of course raping them as he did it, then killed the older daughter in the same manner, and then did the mother. Been appealing his case, I guess, for 30 years. If they have a "B" in front of their number, you know they have been there a long long time. Three meals a day, breathing fresh air, every day. The victims? Not so much. I could not stop looking at the article for some time. It just drew me to it, like a car wreck, I wanted to keep clicking mug shots. I've already written too much, but why reward one of these animals by buying their "art" work, if it was allowed?
Quote: WizardI've always wanted a drawing by somebody on death row with nothing to do but draw, like the character in Monster's Ball. I assume it's difficult to get one because you're not supposed to be allowed to run a business from prison.
There's plenty of prisoner art on eBay. Not sure about death row art, though.
Quote: EvenBobSo art has nothing to do with talent, then.
That's what I thought.
No. Nobody ever said it did.
Quote: TigerWu
No. Nobody ever said it did.
Like I said, in the eyes of the beholder. I have two small pieces from an impoverished person in the country of Chile, who were asking for "peanuts". I paid significantly more, naturally, as I fell in love with the work. I've seen paintings for thousands of dollars I would not give you $5 for. But these two pieces from Chile, priceless. And on my wall now, I hope until I die.
Quote: bobbartopLike I said, in the eyes of the beholder. I have two small pieces from an impoverished person in the country of Chile, who were asking for "peanuts". I paid significantly more, naturally, as I fell in love with the work. I've seen paintings for thousands of dollars I would not give you $5 for. But these two pieces from Chile, priceless. And on my wall now, I hope until I die.
Now I'm interested.. post a pic please?
Quote: rsactuaryNow I'm interested.. post a pic please?
I don't mean to be rude, but I'd rather not. They are merely simple water colors from a street in Chile. They are special to me, but would not mean much to anyone else, probably. Please don't be angry with me.
Quote: bobbartopI don't mean to be rude, but I'd rather not. They are merely simple water colors from a street in Chile. They are special to me, but would not mean much to anyone else, probably. Please don't be angry with me.
I don't know if you are familiar with Laguna Beach, California, but it is kind of a special place. A lot of small art shops. I used to live near there. I would sometimes walk and look at paintings. I could never afford an original. I still see in my mind a painting of some old men (probably in Italy) sitting at a table playing cards, I wanted it so bad, but it was like $5000 or so. I don't know how many times I stopped there, just to admire it. I would loved to have bought it for my father. Never did. And now I'm older, everyone's dead, life moves on.
Quote: bobbartopI don't know if you are familiar with Laguna Beach, California, but it is kind of a special place. A lot of small art shops. I used to live near there. I would sometimes walk and look at paintings. I could never afford an original. I still see in my mind a painting of some old men (probably in Italy) sitting at a table playing cards, I wanted it so bad, but it was like $5000 or so. I don't know how many times I stopped there, just to admire it. I would loved to have bought it for my father. Never did. And now I'm older, everyone's dead, life moves on.
I have a copy of The Cardsharps that I bought off of eBay. It's actually hand painted oil on canvas; cost me $50. Bought it years ago from a seller in China that probably has a sweatshop of people copying paintings for pennies a day. I wouldn't support something like that nowadays but I thought it was cool back in the day and I still have it.
Quote: bobbartopBut how can someone appeal a conviction for 30 years?
In old time Japan, every crime,
no matter how small got
capital punishment by
crucifixion. They nailed you
to a cross and left you there.
There were no prisons. Arrested
on Tue, tried on Wed, nailed
up on Thursday. Needless to
say, crime of any kind was
almost unknown.
Quote: EvenBobIn old time Japan, every crime,
no matter how small got
capital punishment by
crucifixion. They nailed you
to a cross and left you there.
There were no prisons. Arrested
on Tue, tried on Wed, nailed
up on Thursday. Needless to
say, crime of any kind was
almost unknown.
I guess the Yakuza isn't that old
Quote: EvenBobIn old time Japan, every crime,
no matter how small got
capital punishment by
crucifixion. They nailed you
to a cross and left you there.
There were no prisons. Arrested
on Tue, tried on Wed, nailed
up on Thursday. Needless to
say, crime of any kind was
almost unknown.
That's awful. Ours is the best system, when it works. Keeping 733 on California's death row for decades is "broken". Our new governor says there will be no executions during his governorship. I don't want to see anyone killed, but I did not make these animals commit such heinous acts. They leave Society no option. It's the only way to make things "right".
Quote: bobbartopThat's awful.
Was it? In those days, everybody was poor.
You stole a man's tools of his trade you
stole his livelihood. You stole his cooking
pot, how would he eat. You stole his two
sets of clothes, what would he wear. The
death penalty for those crimes made them
almost non-existent.
Quote: EvenBobWas it? In those days, everybody was poor.
You stole a man's tools of his trade you
stole his livelihood. You stole his cooking
pot, how would he eat. You stole his two
sets of clothes, what would he wear. The
death penalty for those crimes made them
almost non-existent.
I'll stand by my statement, that was awful. Are you disagreeing? Seriously?
It's great as long as you're sure it won't affect you or you'll not be falsely accused. Probably a lot of people were framed up back then.Quote: bobbartopI'll stand by my statement, that was awful. Are you disagreeing? Seriously?
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's great as long as you're sure it won't affect you or you'll not be falsely accused. Probably a lot of people were framed up back then.
Hi One Nickel, hope you've been well. Good wishes in the new year to you.
This is a weird statement we're discussing. I don't know where EvenBob is coming from. Does he really think this was ever justified? Like you said in your second sentence, certainly many innocent people were punished under such a policy, plus, what about the punishment fitting the crime for those who were guilty? It's barbaric and just another example of how cruel Mankind has been throughout history. It seems like EvenBob was saying it "might" have been ok under circumstances of ancient times. I hope he replies later and clears that up, because it was never ok. It was awful.
Crime is up 20% this month in NYC due to the new law that protects the criminals.
Two days ago, the NYDP raided a heroin fentanyl packaging mill, and caught six people filling glassine bags with the drugs. Hours later, they were all released to cheering supporters. No doubt they will show up for trial to face twenty or more years in prison.
At the start of the year, Cuomo released 900 prisoners who are awaiting trial. In order to induce them to show up at court, Mayor de Blasio gave them gift bags containing phones, Metro Cards for free transportation, movie passes, and other gift cards.
Quote: TankoIn New York, nobody goes to jail unless they commit murder, rape, or a crime with gun or a knife.
Crime is up 20% this month in NYC due to the new law that protects the criminals.
Two days ago, the NYDP raided a heroin fentanyl packaging mill, and caught six people filling glassine bags with the drugs. Hours later, they were all released to cheering supporters. No doubt they will show up for trial to face twenty or more years in prison.
At the start of the year, Cuomo released 900 prisoners who are awaiting trial. In order to induce them to show up at court, Mayor de Blasio gave them gift bags containing phones, Metro Cards for free transportation, movie passes, and other gift cards.
As usual not the whole story
The prisoners were misdemeanor or low level non violent felonies which were awaiting trial (technically still innocent until proven guilty).
These people couldn't afford bail and this new program is a cashless bail experiment. The incentive to show up in court is movie passes phones, etc instead of the usual incentive of forfeiting your bail money
I don't know if it will work but let's see. The strangest things happen. The bail system is failed as it's basically a rich get out of jail card
Quote: darkozQuote: TankoIn New York, nobody goes to jail unless they commit murder, rape, or a crime with gun or a knife.
Crime is up 20% this month in NYC due to the new law that protects the criminals.
Two days ago, the NYDP raided a heroin fentanyl packaging mill, and caught six people filling glassine bags with the drugs. Hours later, they were all released to cheering supporters. No doubt they will show up for trial to face twenty or more years in prison.
At the start of the year, Cuomo released 900 prisoners who are awaiting trial. In order to induce them to show up at court, Mayor de Blasio gave them gift bags containing phones, Metro Cards for free transportation, movie passes, and other gift cards.
As usual not the whole story
The prisoners were misdemeanor or low level non violent felonies which were awaiting trial (technically still innocent until proven guilty).
These people couldn't afford bail and this new program is a cashless bail experiment. The incentive to show up in court is movie passes phones, etc instead of the usual incentive of forfeiting your bail money
I don't know if it will work but let's see. The strangest things happen. The bail system is failed as it's basically a rich get out of jail card
PLEASE tell me you are making up the part about needing to give out gifts as an incentive to have someone show up for their court date. PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: TankoIn New York, nobody goes to jail unless they commit murder, rape, or a crime with gun or a knife.
Crime is up 20% this month in NYC due to the new law that protects the criminals.
Two days ago, the NYDP raided a heroin fentanyl packaging mill, and caught six people filling glassine bags with the drugs. Hours later, they were all released to cheering supporters. No doubt they will show up for trial to face twenty or more years in prison.
At the start of the year, Cuomo released 900 prisoners who are awaiting trial. In order to induce them to show up at court, Mayor de Blasio gave them gift bags containing phones, Metro Cards for free transportation, movie passes, and other gift cards.
As usual not the whole story
The prisoners were misdemeanor or low level non violent felonies which were awaiting trial (technically still innocent until proven guilty).
These people couldn't afford bail and this new program is a cashless bail experiment. The incentive to show up in court is movie passes phones, etc instead of the usual incentive of forfeiting your bail money
I don't know if it will work but let's see. The strangest things happen. The bail system is failed as it's basically a rich get out of jail card
PLEASE tell me you are making up the part about needing to give out gifts as an incentive to have someone show up for their court date. PLEASE!!!!!!!!
That's what the article says
I don't totally agree with that. But who knows
I don't think people will commit crimes just to get free gifts except perhaps... I can see the APs who left this forum already in a tizzy that I just ruined one of their secret plays
Except for EB, I don't see too many hurling of insults on a casual basis. Everyone is just answering questions and not throwing sock puppet accusations (in fact the sock puppets seem to have left as well)
I think the civility is due more to the political ban than the AP exodus.Quote: darkozJust an observation but since the AP Exodus has anyone noticed it's much more civil here on WOV?
Except for EB, I don't see too many hurling of insults on a casual basis. Everyone is just answering questions and not throwing sock puppet accusations (in fact the sock puppets seem to have left as well)
Quote: EvenBobIn old time Japan, every crime,
no matter how small got
capital punishment by
crucifixion. They nailed you
to a cross and left you there.
There were no prisons. Arrested
on Tue, tried on Wed, nailed
up on Thursday. Needless to
say, crime of any kind was
almost unknown.
There was an episode of Star Trek: TNG about this concept. The went to some alien world where there was an "off limits" area that moved around every few days or so. If you went into the off-limits area, you were executed. Somehow (I forget the details of the episode), this meant there was virtually no crime on the planet. Wesley Crusher accidentally falls into one of the off-limits areas and they of course wanted to kill him. The Enterprise crew were eventually able to talk them out of killing him, and I think were able to convince the people how ridiculous their laws were and they changed them.
which ap's left?Quote: darkozJust an observation but since the AP Exodus has anyone noticed it's much more civil here on WOV?
Except for EB, I don't see too many hurling of insults on a casual basis. Everyone is just answering questions and not throwing sock puppet accusations (in fact the sock puppets seem to have left as well)
Quote: 100xOddswhich ap's left?
Rigondeaux who started this thread, axelwolf, I haven't seen maxpen and a few others
Pokergrinder has taken a vow of silence which he has broken at least once while he travels around the world
Seemingly all those AP's who have bus phobias
Quote: bobbartopI'll stand by my statement, that was awful. Are you disagreeing? Seriously?
It was awful but it worked. It
was understood that crime
was not to be tolerated. No
feeding you & housing you
for years at the expense
of the state. Live by the
rules or die.
