Why you should leave WOV

Whoa I didn't realize AxelWolf had pulled the plug. Sad. I still miss IBYA's contributions...

Quote: AcesAndEights

Whoa I didn't realize AxelWolf had pulled the plug. Sad. I still miss IBYA's contributions...

This is a big loss to the forum. Plus several other key suspects. Someone needs to talk them into coming back. Send them a box of candy or something. Work it out.

there's some interesting chatter sometimes on this forum sometimes



but so much of the chatter on this forum and other gambling forums revolves around this:




1........................two APs arguing - one saying he makes much more and knows much more - one saying that the other's methods are bogus or chump change stuff
...............................................it's a pi..... contest - who has the biggest "wallet"



2.........................a non AP claiming that his non mathematical system is making him big bucks or good money or should in the future
....................................................this is automatically followed by those who are knowledgeable debunking this claim
............................................................................................and usually this is not a satisfactory answer for the non AP - he still believes he has discovered the Holy Grail

...........................................................................................................................this could go on for several years with the same posters posting




3.....................................................................................................................................................................someone "discovers" the martingale or some version of it and is completely entranced by its charms



4....................................a sports bettor or maybe just a sports betting poster claims he has a huge edge and many others say unh unh



5....................................................................a craps player believes he can influence the dice by setting or how he rolls them and many others say he can't - so why if you can do this aren't you betting UGE and are rich?



6........................................................................................................................................machine pros post what you would never ever want to do because it's so very, very boring






it can get really tired

I'm confused, I thought that Axel had remained with the forum. Can anyone clear this up?

Quote: AcesAndEights

Whoa I didn't realize AxelWolf had pulled the plug. Sad. I still miss IBYA's contributions...

I didn't pull the plug permanently, I just went on hiatus out of respect for others. I didn't/ don't agree it was the right decision, at least not for everyone. I wanted to talk to a few of those people in person before I became more active.

For me, being a part of this forum has been one of the best + EV situations in many areas of my life, personally, financially and everything else you can imagine. I've met a lot of really good people on this forum.

Quote: AxelWolf

I didn't pull the plug permanently, I just went on hiatus out of respect for others. I didn't/ don't agree it was the right decision, at least not for everyone. I wanted to talk to a few of those people in person before I became more active.

For me, being a part of this forum has been one of the best + EV situations in many areas of my life, personally, financially and everything else you can imagine. I've met a lot of really good people on this forum.

In other words you "went Dark" for awhile.

(A bit of ironic humor from Dark Oz)

Quote: AxelWolf

I didn't pull the plug permanently,

What a relief, I said sarcastically..

Quote: AxelWolf

I didn't pull the plug permanently, I just went on hiatus out of respect for others. I didn't/ don't agree it was the right decision, at least not for everyone. I wanted to talk to a few of those people in person before I became more active.

For me, being a part of this forum has been one of the best + EV situations in many areas of my life, personally, financially and everything else you can imagine. I've met a lot of really good people on this forum.

Cool, glad you are still aboard.

Removed

Quote: Snowcat

Well after some consideration and an event that took place last night I feel it’s time that I chimed in-though many like mission and beachbabs won’t like the extent I’m going to go.....Darkoz said nothing compared to the extent I will be going.....every blog, forum and site I can create a user name on will have my footprint with names of games and exact method of plays.....

See Mission said it best......speaking out will hurt his livelihood....how selfish is that? What about my livelihood? So it’s all about you or beachbabs....you could help others but instead only help yourself? For the last years you have had the ability to play and not help others.....,it’s all about you.....what about the 1000s of people who could use this info-? Why is it only you should have it?
And mission’s post on tribalism-whose tribe? Yours? So you have info but only want it for yourself??? What about my livelihood ? Am I not worthy......oh that’s right you want me to shut up ....you want to just keep it to yourself ......you sound like it’s like the haves and have nots is that right?


Last night this 21 year old snot nosed kid was checking a machine near me and I said to him hey how do you check the plays? Playing dumb he said huh.... I said look I know what you are doing....I’ve never known it to have plays .....

So he said to this to me. why would I share anything with you??????

See that’s the current attitude of APs it’s all about ’s about their quiet and don’t ruin it for them.... meanwhile we don’t have a livelihood......

Then the kid goes and meets with his dad-a well known local at’s right his dad-so they should be able to profit but no one else??????

That did it for on everyone will know the plays and if everyone knows then APs are just average........we ALL will be APs

You joined today just to say this?

Clear

Quote: Snowcat

Well after some consideration and an event that took place last night I feel it’s time that I chimed in-though many like mission and beachbabs won’t like the extent I’m going to go.....Darkoz said nothing compared to the extent I will be going.....every blog, forum and site I can create a user name on will have my footprint with names of games and exact method of plays.....

See Mission said it best......speaking out will hurt his livelihood....how selfish is that? What about my livelihood? So it’s all about you or beachbabs....you could help others but instead only help yourself? For the last years you have had the ability to play and not help others.....,it’s all about you.....what about the 1000s of people who could use this info-? Why is it only you should have it?
And mission’s post on tribalism-whose tribe? Yours? So you have info but only want it for yourself??? What about my livelihood ? Am I not worthy......oh that’s right you want me to shut up ....you want to just keep it to yourself ......you sound like it’s like the haves and have nots is that right?


Last night this 21 year old snot nosed kid was checking a machine near me and I said to him hey how do you check the plays? Playing dumb he said huh.... I said look I know what you are doing....I’ve never known it to have plays .....

So he said to this to me. why would I share anything with you??????

See that’s the current attitude of APs it’s all about ’s about their quiet and don’t ruin it for them.... meanwhile we don’t have a livelihood......

Then the kid goes and meets with his dad-a well known local at’s right his dad-so they should be able to profit but no one else??????

That did it for on everyone will know the plays and if everyone knows then APs are just average........we ALL will be APs

I said no such thing, I defended DarkOz' right to say whatever he wants to. I just said that I would not personally speak out publicly about certain plays in an easily accessible (internet) way.

Anyway, who the hell are you? If someone were to PM me asking a question about how I would go about doing something or what I know about a play, as long as it is not a play that was taught to me entirely, I would tell them about it and answer any question.

PM me what machine you were looking at, and if I like your tone a hell of a lot more than I do in the post, I'll tell you what (if anything) I know about it.

Don't know if you've ever read any of my articles, but I make friends with other APs and we are able to help each other out from time to time. If not friends, then I at least like to be on good terms with people.

Of course, if you're so certain he was checking for something good, you should be able to figure it out...but like I said, you can PM me and I'll let you know if I know anything about it and at least give you a general idea how it works if I do.

ADDED: By the way, what is this recent thing going on around here that all AP's have the exact same personality according to people? Weird misconception. I can't think of any occupation where I would conclude that every single person so employed shares the same characteristics.

Quote: Snowcat

Well after some consideration and an event that took place last night I feel it’s time that I chimed in-though many like mission and beachbabs won’t like the extent I’m going to go.....Darkoz said nothing compared to the extent I will be going.....every blog, forum and site I can create a user name on will have my footprint with names of games and exact method of plays.....

See Mission said it best......speaking out will hurt his livelihood....how selfish is that? What about my livelihood? So it’s all about you or beachbabs....you could help others but instead only help yourself? For the last years you have had the ability to play and not help others.....,it’s all about you.....what about the 1000s of people who could use this info-? Why is it only you should have it?
And mission’s post on tribalism-whose tribe? Yours? So you have info but only want it for yourself??? What about my livelihood ? Am I not worthy......oh that’s right you want me to shut up ....you want to just keep it to yourself ......you sound like it’s like the haves and have nots is that right?


Last night this 21 year old snot nosed kid was checking a machine near me and I said to him hey how do you check the plays? Playing dumb he said huh.... I said look I know what you are doing....I’ve never known it to have plays .....

So he said to this to me. why would I share anything with you??????

See that’s the current attitude of APs it’s all about ’s about their quiet and don’t ruin it for them.... meanwhile we don’t have a livelihood......

Then the kid goes and meets with his dad-a well known local at’s right his dad-so they should be able to profit but no one else??????

That did it for on everyone will know the plays and if everyone knows then APs are just average........we ALL will be APs

Sometimes it's all about self-preservation. The kid has no idea what your intentions are and with your post about taking down all the machines one by one, you really can't blame the guy for wanting a bit of secrecy. It really comes down to what is he risking for what gain? Trust is huge, and a stranger making accusations probably made it hard for him to get off to the right foot with you!

Speaking only for myself, I don't give up plays. Wanna know why? I'll tell you. It's because they're NOT. MY. PLAYS.

It's not about being selfish. It's about respecting other people's intellectual property. I regard plays as the hard work and inspiration of the people who bring me in on the play. NOT as my opportunity to make a buck or a buddy wising someone else up.

I created several games. The first one I went thru the whole IP protection thing, including 7 drafts of patent applications. Wasted effort under Bilski, but many thousands of dollars spent trying, along with much time and expense building the game.

The second one, my time and expense, I got to focus testing, where it did moderately well. When my distributor felt it was too "boutique" for them, I talked to exactly one other person about helping distribute it, who was in the business. He sold it instead, to a different distributor, as his own.

Third one, I've trusted a person of better character to look at it, and one AP expert. They both know how to keep their mouths shut. No leaks so far.

Point being: if YOU do the work, whether AP or inventor, writer, or coder, then YOU get to profit from it. If it's someone else's work, it's up to THEM, not you, to offer it to someone else. Respect the IP.

Apples and oranges between sharing plays and exposing them, before anybody twists what I just said. Turns an intended win/win into an everybody loses.

Fair enough I shall DM you

Rebuked

Quote: beachbumbabs

Speaking only for myself, I don't give up plays. Wanna know why? I'll tell you. It's because they're NOT. MY. PLAYS.

It's not about being selfish. It's about respecting other people's intellectual property. I regard plays as the hard work and inspiration of the people who bring me in on the play. NOT as my opportunity to make a buck or a buddy wising someone else up.

I created several games. The first one I went thru the whole IP protection thing, including 7 drafts of patent applications. Wasted effort under Bilski, but many thousands of dollars spent trying, along with much time and expense building the game.

The second one, my time and expense, I got to focus testing, where it did moderately well. When my distributor felt it was too "boutique" for them, I talked to exactly one other person about helping distribute it, who was in the business. He sold it instead, to a different distributor, as his own.

Third one, I've trusted a person of better character to look at it, and one AP expert. They both know how to keep their mouths shut. No leaks so far.

Point being: if YOU do the work, whether AP or inventor, writer, or coder, then YOU get to profit from it. If it's someone else's work, it's up to THEM, not you, to offer it to someone else. Respect the IP.

Apples and oranges between sharing plays and exposing them, before anybody twists what I just said. Turns an intended win/win into an everybody loses.

If someone comes up with the doey/don't on their own that does not make it an intellectual property

Neither if they come up with card pulling

Not even Ivey and Sun edge sorting is intellectual property (would have loved for Borgata and Crockfords to have been sued under disclosure of IP property but nope not gonna happen)

Quote: darkoz

If someone comes up with the doey/don't on their own that does not make it an intellectual property

Neither if they come up with card pulling

Not even Ivey and Sun edge sorting is intellectual property (would have loved for Borgata and Crockfords to have been sued under disclosure of IP property but nope not gonna happen)

I can't tell if you don't understand on purpose or just don't get it for real.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I can't tell if you don't understand on purpose or just don't get it for real.

Yeah, I get it.

You are confusing a need for secrecy with IP protection

To me it comes down to sharing knowledge. Should math continue to be taught in schools? Current mathematicians would be in much higher demand and paid more if we quit teaching math to others. Obviously this applies to every curriculum. Let's just get rid of schools so those of us that have knowledge will benefit more.

Quote: darkoz

Yeah, I get it.

You are confusing a need for secrecy with IP protection

Wrong.

Legally, this is stuff is simply not Intellectual Property.
Whether morally it is intellectual property (lower case "I" & "P"), is another question.

Quote: UP84

Legally, this is stuff is simply not Intellectual Property.
Whether morally it is intellectual property (lower case "I" & "P"), is another question.

Thank you.

Morally, there is never any IP protection in this world unfortunately

In the 1800"s a dentist figured out how to use ether to make surgery painless.

Morally he should have died a millionaire for helping THE ENTIRE WORLD AVOID PAIN OF SURGERY WITHOUT ANESTHESIA

In reality he died penniless. Ether gas is not an intellectual property and the dentist made no money from his sharing his discovery

Let's be thankful he was not an AP moralist

Quote: beachbumbabs

Speaking only for myself, I don't give up plays. Wanna know why? I'll tell you. It's because they're NOT. MY. PLAYS.
It's not about being selfish. It's about respecting other people's intellectual property.

As soon as I read this I thought
that guy who brags about living
on the subway will be totally
baffled by it. He'll scratch his
head and go 'HUH'?

Sure enough:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/34168-why-you-should-leave-wov/22/#post756478

I find that people who are insanely jealous of me because I have achieved so.much more than they have resort to insults.

Most likely they will insult this post but they are too dim to realize they prove my point

Quote: EvenBob

As soon as I read this I thought
that guy who brags about living
on the subway will be totally
baffled by it. He'll scratch his
head and go 'HUH'?

Sure enough:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/34168-why-you-should-leave-wov/22/#post756478

Switched from predicting roulette numbers to predicting WOV forum posts?

Smart move! Maybe now you will have a modicum of success in your predictions

Quote: darkoz

In the 1800"s a dentist figured out how to use ether to make surgery painless.

Morally he should have died a millionaire for helping...

Reminded me.

Before Jonas Salk developed the polio vaccine, the disease paralyzed 13,000 to 20,000 people annually.

Millions in donations raised by the March of Dimes, funded his research.

When Edward R. Murrow asked him, who owned the patent, Salk replied: “Well, the people, I would say,” “There is no patent.”

You'd think they could have at least given him the Nobel Prize.