Health and Weight Loss

Quote: SOOPOO

Do you go to a doctor and actually take the medicines he/she writes for? Those diastolics are ludicrously high.

I do but so far none of the five different meds are making a meaningful change. I will admit that I refuse to change my lifestyle so it is mostly my fault. I need the miracle drug that counteracts too much salt, booze, and smoking. The only thing I have going for me is that I am only 165 lbs.

Quote: DRich

I do but so far none of the five different meds are making a meaningful change. I will admit that I refuse to change my lifestyle so it is mostly my fault. I need the miracle drug that counteracts too much salt, booze, and smoking.

Would a heart attack or stroke provide motivation for change?

Quote: Rigondeaux

ZK's claim that starvation mode, ie ketosis, does not exist appears to be totally unfounded but a source would be cool.

Starvation mode (as ZK refers to it) is a myth, and does not relate to ketosis. It is "fatlogic" that states that if you cut calories too much, your body thinks it is starving and will "hold on" to fat, not let you lose weight, and eventually GAIN weight.

This is obviously nonsense, otherwise concentration camps would have been full of fat people.

Quote: FleaStiff

Statins are substances that make you die with better numbers in your medical file, but they have not been shown to increase life span or quality of life in any way, you just die with better numbers.

also statins are thought to cross the blood brain barrier so those who have had a diabetic crisis should probably not be on statins.

BP meds? Are you referring to saffron, hibiscus tea, passion flower petals, turmeric, parsley?

Good morning...Several actual M.D.'s have prescribed/concurred with my statin script. It's not expensive like Lipitor so pharmaceutical profits/kickbacks are not the motive. I'm in Thailand where, well whatever. You get the point. It's (simvastatin) very inexpensive and basically over the counter here. It seems like people are either taking it or defying doctor's orders. No middle ground?

BP meds..I was referring to the chemical type, not herbs. We all have access to the names and claimed benefits. I honestly don't know the risks, I leave that up to the medical profession. I've seen some youtube stuff but as always is the case, you can believe youtube or believe your M.D..

Extension of my years isn't my motivation. Avoiding more strokes and heart attacks is. Avoiding is I guess lowering the risks of same occurring

RIP "Bar"...the nickname of Barbara Bush her friends and husband used.

Quote: TigerWu

Starvation mode (as ZK refers to it) is a myth, and does not relate to ketosis. It is "fatlogic" that states that if you cut calories too much, your body thinks it is starving and will "hold on" to fat, not let you lose weight, and eventually GAIN weight.

This is obviously nonsense, otherwise concentration camps would have been full of fat people.

Babs seemed to be referring to ketosis. She was describing a fat burning state caused by fasting. Maybe i misunderstood. I've heard ketosis referred to a starvation mode before as well because your body begins to use its fat supply.

Quote: MaxPen

Would a heart attack or stroke provide motivation for change?

I have already had the heart attack and just hoping the stroke will be fatal.

Quote: DRich

I have already had the heart attack and just hoping the stroke will be fatal.

Yep, definitely a serious nihilist. No one can say were BS'ing when you claimed the title.

We need to have an intervention for Drich. Will you get help today?

Just to clear it up, when I mentioned 'starvation mode' being a myth or that it doesnt exist, I was referring to the common misconception that if you skip a meal or go a day without a meal or even two days, that your metabolism somehow shuts down or slows down to the point you begin to put on weight. That's complete and utter nonsense and has been proven time and time again that your metabolism does NOT shut down OR slow down just because you went 8 hours without a meal, etc.

It takes quite a while for your metabolism to be affected to the point it slows down and we're talking at least 3-4 days. By doing short term fasting regimens such as 16-72 hrs, your metabolism actually revs up and burns fat faster and more effectively along with so many more health benefits that the average person in America today will never experience because theyre too busy eating all day long.

I remember when XXL used to be roomy. I've been over eating for about 6 months, so no duh and plus I'm aging.

Quote: NokTang

Good morning...Several actual M.D.'s have prescribed/concurred with my statin script.

Yes, those Practitioners of the Black and Evil Arts often stick together.
>>It's not expensive like Lipitor so pharmaceutical profits/kickbacks are not the motive.
They kill you by not doing any research, being eons behind the learning curve, relying on articles and studies shaped by the drug companies.

> It's (simvastatin) very inexpensive
>It seems like people are either taking it or defying doctor's orders.
>No middle ground?
No middle ground in the medical battles over it either.

>BP meds..I was referring to the chemical type, not herbs.
It is ALL chemicals. Take Parsely. Its effective because of the two percent vanadium.
> you can believe youtube or believe your M.D..
You can believe the evidence cited on youtube or the evidence cited by your Practitioner of the Black and Evil Arts of Medicine.
Focus on the evidence.

Focus on the evidence.
Darn this double clicking mouse.

Statins are a battlefield of conflicting evidence and assumptions, but there has never been a showing of any effect on mortality. You die of something else but you die with "good numbers". Note: there is growing evidence of statins damaging the kidneys.

You can get a doctor to give you vanadium or you can eat parsley. Its the same substance.

Of those herbs and spices I listed I think its saffron that has the exact same effect as a dose of imipramine in depression studies.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Before I met him, my ex-husband lost about 150 lbs on something called the Carbohydrate Addicts.Diet. It totally goes against most eating advice, but it worked for him.

The basic thing was, IIRC, you ate nothing with any carbs in it 23 hours a day. Water, black coffee, tea, sugar-free gum, whatever you could find ultra-low carbs. For 1 hour a day, the same hour every day (think it was dinnertime), you could eat anything you wanted regardless of fat, sugar, carb content. Might even have been recommended to high-carb your meals to get the diet to work.

Supposedly, it kept your body from starvation mode, which causes it to hoard fat cells, but it would.work overtime to burn the calories when it finally got some. I think.there was some guidance about vitamins and mineral ingestion as well. But the timing 23/1 was the key.

These 'no carb' diets are ATROCIOUS to the human body. Carbs are like the gasoline to your body (car). When your body doesn't get the carbs it needs for energy it will start eating away at your fat and muscle resources for the energy. So yes, people often lose tons of weight, but this is VERY UNHEALTHY weight because a lot of what they lose is muscle. Have you ever seen "successful" atkins diet people? They look AWFUL. Sure, they lost 50 lbs, of muscle, and now they look like Holocaust survivors. It's so unhealthy to do that to your body, and then in the end you still don't look like you want because you have no muscle, so you have no definition or "tone" just deformed/missing muscle.

We sadly need to RETRAIN how people see carbs. Carbs are good. Carbs are FUEL for your body to do things (like working out). Why do you think Professional Athletes "carb load" 2-3 hours before a big game? Are those guys unhealthy or out of shape? No... they're often in peek human physique... and surprise surprise, they love carbs.

Quote: Romes

These 'no carb' diets are ATROCIOUS to the human body. Carbs are like the gasoline to your body (car). When your body doesn't get the carbs it needs for energy it will start eating away at your fat and muscle resources for the energy. So yes, people often lose tons of weight, but this is VERY UNHEALTHY weight because a lot of what they lose is muscle. Have you ever seen "successful" atkins diet people? They look AWFUL. Sure, they lost 50 lbs, of muscle, and now they look like Holocaust survivors. It's so unhealthy to do that to your body, and then in the end you still don't look like you want because you have no muscle, so you have no definition or "tone" just deformed/missing muscle.

We sadly need to RETRAIN how people see carbs. Carbs are good. Carbs are FUEL for your body to do things (like working out). Why do you think Professional Athletes "carb load" 2-3 hours before a big game? Are those guys unhealthy or out of shape? No... they're often in peek human physique... and surprise surprise, they love carbs.

Another myth. Your body doesnt go after muscle unless you have absolutely no fat on your body and even then it would take many days or weeks for your body to start attacking your lean muscle mass. Many people dont give enough credit to how powerful the human body is and instead rely on drugs, supplements and misleading advice from big pharma and doctors in these 'white' coats. Yes white coats because that is something psychological in itself to make you feel like they have all the answers and youre at peace whem you walk in. Imagine they wore black coats, would you have the same misguided trust?

Regardless, your body stores fat for precisely this reason, to be used later as energy. So many myths promulgated by big pharma and these so called doctors, its sickening. I always laugh when people who are overweight or even average people with decent fat on them claim theyre so hungry after 6 hours of not eating LOL. They think theyre hungry because they trained their body to eat every 6 hours and then theyll feel something that makes them think they need food. They think theyll die or pass out if they dont eat. They dont realize all that fat on their body(the obese ones) will allow them to live for a year without eating.

If any of you want me to list every single myth here, let me know, there's plenty more. Fasting would end big pharma and the billion dollar supplement market if it ever caught attention. This isnt a fad, its real, and the market is terrified of it.

Oh by the way, im feeling nice today, heres another tip. Working out fasted is 10x better than working out after consuming a meal. Working out on a 24 hour fast, your HGH levels go up 2000% from baseline levels. Let that sink in.

While admittedly I don't have a doctorate degree in biology, this is what every nutritionist, athletic trainer, personal trainer, etc, etc, has told me... which still isn't good enough. What is, is that I've seen it with my own eyes (in nearly a dozen separate cases). My mom did the atkins diet. Followed it to a T. She dropped about 50 lbs, and she was weak as hell and looked terrible. Again, I'll also circle back to facts that no one denies... Why do athletes carb load before big events?

I'm not saying "eat carbs all day" at all btw. I think in my earlier post (in this health thread or another) I mentioned that you should eat carbs in the morning, or prior to a good workout and not be eating carbs at night. They are the fuel your body need to be active and build lean muscle, which is what burns fat the best.

One of my college housemates, who was 5'4 135pounds soaking wet but worked as a bouncer at one of the tougher bars in town ., ate a huge plate of pasta with "red gravy" for breakfast each day when he wasn't cutting weight for a wrestling match. Ate salad for lunch and usually had broiled chicken or grilled veal for dinner.
He was a workout fanatic. He walked around campus with an old bullworker and used it contantly.

In my case, it was 100% mental. I just decided I was going to lose 100 pounds. Once that decision was reached, the rest is just choosing the best path there.
I don't believe there is one single best way. You need to find what works( and doesn't work) for you. What you can't do is say I'm going to go on a diet and lose forty pounds and then I'll quit it. You have to change your approach to eating and realize the changes are permanent, not temporary. I'm about halfway there and expect to have lost the 100 pounds within the next year. Then I'll set a new mark to shoot for.

I have often said that I think my brain is broken. I can eat 3 pounds of food and finish my large plate and my stomach growls and I feel hungry. I just ate a super large salad. I had an entire bag of bagged salad, I added some Turkey lunch meat, 6 croutons, green peppers, tomatoes, and 2 tablespoons of ranch dressing. Not sure how many calories but maybe 600. I finish it all and I am sitting there and my stomach feels hungry. I am like wtf I just ate enough salad for 3 people. So I Google it and come up with this part of an article.

Because adipose (fat) cells secrete leptin, you would think that a person who is overweight would have plenty of leptin and hence never feel hungry. Unfortunately, this is not true. Excess fat tissue in the body creates excess leptin and leads to leptin resistance, which causes feelings of hunger, even if a person has already had enough to eat.

So that makes sense fat people eat more and never feel hungry and then over eat. The more you gain the more you need and you continue to over eat. So how do you stop this from happening? I guess I could Google that too but figured j would mention it in here.

Also the slower you eat, the more time your body has to ingest the food and "feel full." If you eat too quickly, your body won't register the food fast enough and you'll still feel hungry.

My wife and I eat the exact same food in the same amount at dinner. I eat fairly slowly, and she eats rather quickly. She'll be finished with her food and still complain of being hungry, whereas I'm barely halfway done with my food and I feel almost full. We weigh pretty close to the same weight, too.

have you tried drinking much more water then you usually do?
I believe this can work. when you stomach is filled with water you should feel less hungry.
the down side is you will have to go to the bathroom a lot more often.

this linked article is from the U.S. National Library of Medicine at NIH, (the National Institute of Health)

from the article:

"This brief review highlights the considerable evidence that an increase in water intake, i.e., increased hydration, leads to loss of body weight."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4901052/

Quote: TigerWu

Also the slower you eat, the more time your body has to ingest the food and "feel full." If you eat too quickly, your body won't register the food fast enough and you'll still feel hungry.

Yes, we also know this from the many Chicken McNugget challenges.

Anytime you think of leptin be sure to also think of ghrelin.

Try water twenty minutes before eating or soup as a first course. It usually allows you to cut twenty percent of calories without feeling its a "diet".

Quote: Romes

These 'no carb' diets are ATROCIOUS to the human body..

This is simply not true.. It's like saying casinos on the strip are running blackjack games with decks deficient in high cards.

Time to fire up the billions of podcasts available by Dr's doing the research. And the zillions of people that look nothing like you describe.

Anyone ever see Romes and Zenking together??? Working on a theory here

Quote: dfwbird

Anyone ever see Romes and Zenking together??? Working on a theory here

Yes. Several of us. I can assure you they are different people.

I’d take a closer look at Axel and Nathan tho

Been keto for 2 years, less than 25 net grams
of carb a day. As an example of what 25g of
carb means, one average size bagel has 48g
of carb.

Keto is da bomb.

I'm 6-2 210 doesn't matter what I eat or how much I
Work out I'm always 6-2 210 (shrug).

Quote: dfwbird

This is simply not true.. It's like saying casinos on the strip are running blackjack games with decks deficient in high cards.

They're not?

Let's get out of the theoretical and the science.

What did YOU do in life where you lost significant weight?

For instance, I ran 4 miles every morning and drank about twice the normal amount of water I normally do for 100 days. The running was a lot slower than I normally did, but I was running with a partner who didn't run very fast. Even though I dropped 25lbs that's the most weight I ever lost doing anything. And I actually wasn't even trying to lose weight.

Quote: EvenBob

Been keto for 2 years, less than 25 net grams
of carb a day. As an example of what 25g of
carb means, one average size bagel has 48g
of carb.

Keto is da bomb.

When I was toying with doing keto, at least temporarily, I happened to play poker with a couple guys who were on it.

One was about my age (40s) and looked great, though he did say he ate a cupcake before his insane workouts. This also motivated him to work out.

The other guy had been a total keto nut for years. I was going to say he looked like a pro athlete but really it would be more accurate to say he looked like a fitness model.

So that's my counter-anecdote to Romes.

Maybe people who are extremely overwieght and lose it, particularly in a shorter period of time, will always look a little bit worse than those who have always been fit.

Or perhaps Atkins is not a good keto diet. I don't really know Atkins per se. I just blindly follow what guys on youtube tell me to do. They are medical doctors, according to themselves.

The youtubers who showed me how to fix my car were on the money, so I don't see how these guys could be wrong. Or the guy who is going to teach me to make home made cocaine tonight.

Quote: Rigondeaux

When I was toying with doing keto, at least temporarily, I happened to play poker with a couple guys who were on it.

One was about my age (40s) and looked great, though he did say he ate a cupcake before his insane workouts. This also motivated him to work out.

The other guy had been a total keto nut for years. I was going to say he looked like a pro athlete but really it would be more accurate to say he looked like a fitness model.

So that's my counter-anecdote to Romes.

Maybe people who are extremely overwieght and lose it, particularly in a shorter period of time, will always look a little bit worse than those who have always been fit.

Or perhaps Atkins is not a good keto diet. I don't really know Atkins per se. I just blindly follow what guys on youtube tell me to do. They are medical doctors, according to themselves.

The youtubers who showed me how to fix my car were on the money, so I don't see how these guys could be wrong. Or the guy who is going to teach me to make home made cocaine tonight.

lmao I agree youtube people are definitely smarter than me. They have walked me through fixing my car, computer, building my steps for my deck, and countless other things. Youtube has cost a lot of professionals a lot of money.

Losing weight sucks. Best thing IME was to just drink a ton of water. I was literally hungry 24/7. Then again, when I cut weight it wasn’t meant to be the “healthy” thing to do. Then those hippies started banning plastics & trash bags to help with losing weight. I guess a few people almost died or something. Didn’t stop me. Monday after practice I’d be a good 180-185. Morning of the weigh ins I’d be 159.8 on a light day, routinely weighed in at 160.0. By that afternoon I’d be a strong 175+. Good times.

But seriously, this is what you do to lose weight:

Morning:
Run 3-5 miles. Wear sweats and a sweatshirt. You don’t have to run fast. A 9-10 minute mile is fine.

Eat 2-3 egg whites. Don’t eat the yolk (at least I didn’t). Season with pepper if you want. Eat a serving of healthy oatmeal. Season with cinnamon, if you want a tiny dash of salt. Add blueberries if you’re a savage. Also eat something like a banana.

Lunch:
Eat something normal. Like a burrito, a slice of pizza, or a regular sized sandwich. A sandwich is probably best.

Afternoon:
Go to the gym and get beefy. Do arms and chest every day. Always skip leg day. (J/k, don’t skip leg day. You should do upper body one day and legs the next.)

Dinner:
Eat some nasty vegetables like broccoli, corn, peas, and that other crap I don’t like. ONE slice of fish (tilapia or salmon? I think?). And some kind of carby thing. I always liked rice pilaf, it’s the bomb diggity.


Don’t drink soda. Just drink water. Eat a small handful of nuts & dried fruit. Probably avoid the salty stuff, but TBH it probably doesn’t really matter. Yeah it sucks but it’ll be good for you and I can guarantee you might lose weight doing this (I did).



BTW Romes, a “nutritionist” is basically just like some person that says they know stuff about nutrition, whereas a dietician needs to be licensed or something.

Quote: rxwine

The running was a lot slower than I normally did, but I was running with a partner who didn't run very fast.

Slow sustained exercise using major muscle groups is all you need. A dog, a neighbor's teen age daughter will each make great running partners. Water and antioxidants will help keep the lactic acid away from your muscles.

Quote: rxwine

What did YOU do in life where you lost significant weight?

Just ate less food.

And by "significant weight" I mean it was like 10-15lbs? I don't remember exactly because it was years ago, but it wasn't much because I'm not a big guy to begin with.

But it WAS fat that I didn't need around my waistline making my pants feel tighter and tighter.

Quote: RS

Losing weight sucks. Best thing IME was to just drink a ton of water. I was literally hungry 24/7. Then again, when I cut weight it wasn’t meant to be the “healthy” thing to do. Then those hippies started banning plastics & trash bags to help with losing weight. I guess a few people almost died or something. Didn’t stop me. Monday after practice I’d be a good 180-185. Morning of the weigh ins I’d be 159.8 on a light day, routinely weighed in at 160.0. By that afternoon I’d be a strong 175+. Good times.

Sounds like a typical wrestler to me. My Dad was a wrestling coach and I started organized wrestling at the age of 7. I used to cut lots of weight until I got injured and had to stop wrestling.

Sighh. When will people learn? This is why no one ever successfully keeps the weight off amd why 95% of people over 35 are overweight or obese in this country.

It's not WHAT you eat. It's HOW MUCH you eat and this is accomplished through fasting once again. This is what boggles everyones minds and makes everyone eventually fail. People make it so confusing about what to eat, which carbs should i eat, protein levels , am i getting enough vegetables? Am i watching my salt intake? Oh my god i forgot to weigh my food so i hit my macros, etc. It's all a load of bullshit. The more confusing you make it, the higher chance you will fail because that is simply unsustainable. Are you really gonna go through your life asking yourselves all these questions and making it a chore everytime you want to eat something. Let me answer that for you and every single person out there. NO.

Now here's the real kicker of why people fail. Because of all this complexity and making sure they're doing everything 'right', as soon as they 'cheat' and eat a burger or whatever, they feel extremely guilty and just start going all in and give up on the diet and start telling themselves its not 'worth it' anyway and begin to lose even more control than before they started watching what they eat.

Let me give you guys advice AGAIN. Stop making it so confusing. The only thing you should be changing surrounding the 'WHAT you're taking in' is on the fluids level. Stop drinking carbonated sugar garbage like cokes and pepsis. Start only drinking water. Regarding the 'HOW much you eat', this can be applied by introducing a fasting lifestyle change to your life as ill get into now.

Start skipping breakfast, even lunch, but it's okay to have some low glycemic foods such as fruit or low fat yogurt during lunch, anything that doesnt spike your insulin levels. Then at night eat whatever you want and have a big meal(No, big meals at night are not bad for you, another MYTH). The goal should be going about 18-20 hours each day completely fasted(sleep counts) or with some low glycemic foods during lunch at the most. Youll soon realize regardless of what you eat, youll always be in a calorie deficit by doing this and youll soon realize eating throughout the day is nothing but a habit that you trained your body to do and all it does is just make you even hungrier(6 meals a day to lose weight is ANOTHER MYTH). All those little hunger pangs you get during the day will soon only happen at the 20 hr mark or whatever fasting amount you so choose.

You also should be working out fasted, but dont jump right into it until you get your blood sugar accustomed to working off your fat stores for energy rather than carbs from food since your whole life you worked out with food in your stomach. Slowly get into it so you dont pass out in the gym. Go to the gym on a 10 hr fast initially, then a 12 hr fast, then a 16 hr fast, and eventually your body will adjust and youll be a fat burning machine in the weight room. Now when you workout, youre not burning off any carbs from food, youre burning off purely fat.

Thank me again later.

Quote: ZenKinG

Thank me again later.

For what, for just making it even more
complicated? People fail for one reason:
They don't want it badly enough.

If they want it they'll find a way. They'll
do the work, lose the weight and keep
it off. 95% fail because they haven't got
to the never quit point yet. And most
never do.

Quote: EvenBob

For what, for just making it even more
complicated? People fail for one reason:
They don't want it badly enough.

If they want it they'll find a way. They'll
do the work, lose the weight and keep
it off. 95% fail because they haven't got
to the never quit point yet. And most
never do.

And thats the problem. Its not about people 'wanting it bad enough'. My premise is that how people are eating is not natural. People are fat and overweight due to an erroneous way of living. You shouldn't have to 'work for anything' to be a respectable weight. Eating 6 meals a day or eating all day long is completely wrong. People are fat due to the abundant amount of food within arms reach and them thinking its normal to eat 3-6 meals a day after a complete brainwashing done by society.

Go look back to the hunter and gatherer days. You think there was anyone back then who was obese? Was there a McDonalds within arms reach? They hunted all day long, killed their prey, ate maybe an apple off a tree(low glycemic) during the day and ate a big meal at night. Thats how its supposed to be. When you dont eat, the sympathetic 'fight or flight' response is activated and you're alert and ready to go. When you eat, your bodies parasympathetic nervous system is activated and makes you feel tired and ready to sleep. Sympathetic should be active during the day and the parasympathetic active during the night when its time to sleep.

Now tell me, which way of living is more natural? Having your sympathetic nervous system activated during the day and parasympathetic at night? OR what people do today, which is having their parasympathetic active during the day feeling sluggish and sleeping on their desk at lunch time? This is why people consistently have headaches, insomnia, fatigue, and a wealth of other problems.

Laziness is the reason, period.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Laziness is the reason, period.

And why are people lazy? Cause they eat all day long and feel sluggish. I would love to see people go 20-24 hrs a day without eating(sleep counts) and not feel jolted up and ready to go the whole day. Watch how much you accomplish fasting all day compared to eating a fully loaded carb based breakfast and then a sandwich and fries for lunch. Then come back and tell me the difference in energy levels. You'll be surprised at the amount of adrenaline that is released to your brain when you don't eat. And what do all these so called 'professionals' and the media say happens when you don't eat? You will break down and feel sluggish. LOL. I guess they don't understand basic biology or maybe they have an agenda to fulfill as they send you on your way with a full prescription of pills for your cabinet collection.

Quote: ZenKinG

I would love to see people go 20-24 hrs a day without eating(sleep counts) and not feel jolted up and ready to go the whole day.

I dunno... I'm pretty sure I had a few of those days in the Army, and I felt like total crap... haha...

Quote: TigerWu

I dunno... I'm pretty sure I had a few of those days in the Army, and I felt like total crap... haha...

Because like I said before, your body is not used to it. It's the same thing when you first start working out on an empty stomach. Your blood sugar is still not used to it, so you will see a few side effects, but within a week or so of doing it, all that goes away. 99% of americans haven't gone their whole lives without eating for more than 6 hours at a time. It's basically a 'shock' to your system.

Quote: ZenKinG

People are fat and overweight due to an erroneous way of living. You shouldn't have to 'work for anything' to be a respectable weight. Eating 6 meals a day or eating all day long is completely wrong. People are fat due to the abundant amount of food within arms reach and them thinking its normal to eat 3-6 meals a day after a complete brainwashing done by society.

I feel like you're setting up a false dichotomy here, ZK.

Your positions are "fast all day, eat one meal, and be healthy," or "eat 3-6 meals a day, be obese, and take prescription pills." You're not allowing for any middle ground.

I eat 3-4 meals a day, plus snacks, and I'm on the LOW end of my healthy weight range. I have yearly physicals and have no physical health problems. I don't take any prescription pills. That's because I eat (mostly) healthy foods in the proper proportions and serving sizes. My situation is not uncommon. There are a jillion people in the same boat as I am.

People are fat because they consume excess calories for their body type and conditions. If I eat 5,000 calories a day, I am going to get fat, regardless of if I eat one meal or six.

Quote: TigerWu

I feel like you're setting up a false dichotomy here, ZK.

Your positions are "fast all day, eat one meal, and be healthy," or "eat 3-6 meals a day, be obese, and take prescription pills." You're not allowing for any middle ground.

I eat 3-4 meals a day, plus snacks, and I'm on the LOW end of my healthy weight range. I have yearly physicals and have no physical health problems. I don't take any prescription pills. That's because I eat (mostly) healthy foods in the proper proportions and serving sizes. My situation is not uncommon. There are a jillion people in the same boat as I am.

People are fat because they consume excess calories for their body type and conditions. If I eat 5,000 calories a day, I am going to get fat, regardless of if I eat one meal or six.

Which leads me to my next point. Fasting is not just about weight loss. Like you said it really comes down to thermogenesis and calories in vs calories out. There's a whole lot of indirect benefits that come from fasting that you won't get with the standard western way of living.

Quote: ZenKinG

There's a whole lot of indirect benefits that come from fasting that you won't get with the standard western way of living.

Care to enlighten me on these benefits?

Quote: Wizard

Care to enlighten me on these benefits?

First off, as already said, improvement of body composition and fitness. There is an also an improvement with leptin sensitivity, the hormone that affects how full you feel and as an end result you end up having a greater satiety. With leptin sensitivity, you will also get an improved thyroid and get a boost to your metabolism. There are many other full range of additional benefits such as insulin sensitivity from less 'steady' doses of sugar(great for diabetics), improved cardiovascular health, improved blood sugar levels, improved brain health and premature brain aging, as well as fasting being shown to lead to a longer life.

One of my favorite benefits is the resistance to oxidative stress and the cut back on free radical related damage to your body that will keep you looking younger with greater looking skin and keeping your tissues healthier. Along with this, fasting kick-starts a process known as autophagy, which is basically the bodies own way of 'spring cleaning' all the garbage in your body and begins to recycle all the malfunctioning cells and old tissues. When there is no food in your body, your body not only begins to eat away at all the fat in your body, but also the dead tissues and cells that can expand into progressive diseases such as cancer. Healthy cells tissues have been shown to not be impacted by autophagy, but the dead tissues and cells get destroyed. Sadly, 99% of americans and those under the western diet will never experience this organic phenomenon known as autophagy.

Also for athletes or even someone who just wants full health and wellness, fasting for just 24 hours has been shown to raise HGH levels 2000% from baseline levels. That's not a typo. '2000%'. Combine fasting with a gym workout and you will begin to see major changes to your body. Not only will you be a fat burning machine when doing cardio or weight lifting, but the huge increase in HGH keeps your body from attacking any lean muscle that many think fasting would destroy when there are no carbs to use up, while simultaneously boosting muscle growth. Not to mention, for muscle loss to even happen from fasting, you would have to have no fat on your body and you would have to fast for many days.

Quote: ZenKinG

Its not about people 'wanting it bad enough'.

No, thats's EXACTLY what it's about.
You're making this way way too
complicated. I've been involved
in losing weight here and there all
my life. If you want it bad enough,
you absolutely will find a way to
do it.

If you're lazy, which the majority of
fat people are, you'll always gain
it back. And 95% of them do. Any
idiot can lose weight, it takes a
genius of impulse control to keep
it off.

Quote: EvenBob

I've been involved
in losing weight here and there all
my life.

You've just made my point. Why couldn't you keep it off? Why do you and others go back and forth with losing and gaining weight? It's because not only do 'diets' don't work, but the way you and others are eating is completely unsustainable. You can get away with it as a kid, but as you get older, good luck with that and the truth comes out of how wrong that lifestyle of eating really is. You need a lifestyle change because those are sustainable and the best lifestyle change is to make one that actually makes biological sense, which is to fast and not eat all day long.

With all of that that being said, losing weight is what it is, anyone can lose it, you cut your food intake, you lose weight, it's not rocket science, the problem i have is the way people are going about it is unsustainable and the main reason is the way their poor understanding of biology. It's completely unnatural to be eating all day. With such an abundance of food within arms reach now, it has created this problem and people actually think it makes sense to eat 3-6 meals a day. Brainwashing from big pharma and the media has additionally attributed to this problem.

Statin drugs = when they first came out they were thought to be the greatest thing since aspirin, but now the side-effects are being understood. Nine months ago I elected, against the advice of my personal physician, to stop taking my statin drug, and I have been successful at keeping my cholesterol down anyway - by changing my diet.

Atkins (no carb) diet - I did this, lost 15 lbs in a week and 30 lbs in 5 weeks, but I regained the weight quickly after going off the diet.

Leptin drugs - these worked great for me, I quickly lost 15 lbs. I then stopped taking the leptin drug and my weight did not go back up!

Diet - I have spent the last 18 months of my life immersing myself in knowledge about foods, and nutrition -mostly to deal with type II diabetes, high cholesterol, and blood pressure. I now do all the grocery shopping and cooking for my wife and I. The weight comes off as a side-benefit of eating healthy. This is what I recommend:

Foods to drop from your diet.
Start at the top of the list and knock off a couple of things, then when you have adjusted to that, knock off the next couple of things. Too much change all at once is hard to maintain permanently.

1. {the WORST} - Soda pop and fruit juices
2. Pastries - doughnuts, cake, pie - do not keep these in the house!
3. Ice cream. -also, do not keep in house!
4. Refined white bread, like Wonder bread, Italian Bread, bagels or packaged hot dog and hamburger buns. Instead eat whole grain breads - with as many grains as possible -or fermented breads (like sourdough.) At a minimum, if you must eat white breads, buy freshly baked breads -not the processed bread from the food industry. You will spend more on breads but this will make a big difference.
5. Cereal - this surprised me. It is terrible for you. I was eating plain Cheerios with no sugar frosting and thought I was virtuous. I was wrong. I was shortening my life.
6. Crackers and chips. These have partially-hydrogenated oils - probably the most toxic ingredient currently in the food supply. They are also a major source of carbs. Crackers and chips from a Heath Food store are a reasonable compromise.
7. BBQ sauce. This is just liquid sugar, usually high-fructose corn syrup. it converts meat into caramelized candy.
8. anything with high-fructose corn syrup (which is almost everything that is not a whole food.) The devil's sweetener.
_____________________________________________________________________________
9. Reduce or eliminate dairy - cheese, milk, creams etc. - I'm still working on this.

Supplements to take
The two most important are:
1. Co-Q10 -especially, if you are on statin drugs, run to the drug store immediately and get these pills, because statin drugs interfere with the natural production of COQ10.. Also new research indicates that CoQ10 may have a surprising effect on extending your life.
2. Omega-3 fish oil. It comes in two molecular forms, one is 3x more bio-available than the other. This will help with cardiac health and will also lower your blood pressure, triglycerides, blood sugar and improve circulation. I mean really, no BS.

I haven't mentioned meats. I still eat meats -but I stay away from processed meats (Luncheon meats, hot dogs, bologna) and I try to read labels and favor meat from the butcher rather than meat that is processed elsewhere, then put in plastic and shipped in a truck. Yes, I do eat more chicken and fish than red meats.

Kill Sugar - before it Kills you.

Quote: gordonm888

Statin drugs = when they first came out they were thought to be the greatest thing since aspirin, but now the side-effects are being understood. Nine months ago I elected, against the advice of my personal physician, to stop taking my statin drug, and I have been successful at keeping my cholesterol down anyway - by changing my diet.

Atkins (no carb) diet - I did this, lost 15 lbs in a week and 30 lbs in 5 weeks, but I regained the weight quickly after going off the diet.

Leptin drugs - these worked great for me, I quickly lost 15 lbs. I then stopped taking the leptin drug and my weight did not go back up!

Diet - I have spent the last 18 months of my life immersing myself in knowledge about foods, and nutrition -mostly to deal with type II diabetes, high cholesterol, and blood pressure. I now do all the grocery shopping and cooking for my wife. The weight comes off as a side-benefit of eating healthy. This is what I recommend:

Foods to drop from your diet.
Start at the top of the list and knock off a couple of things, then when you have adjusted to that, knock off the next couple of things. Too much change all at once is hard to maintain permanently.

1. {the WORST} - Soda pop and fruit juices
2. Pastries - doughnuts, cake, pie - do not keep these in the house!
3. Ice cream. -also, do not keep in house!
4. Refined white bread, like Wonder bread, Italian Bread, bagels or packaged hot dog and hamburger buns. Instead eat whole grain breads - with as many grains as possible -or fermented breads (like sourdough.) At a minimum, if you must eat white breads, buy freshly baked breads -not the processed bread from the food industry. You will spend more on breads but this will make a big difference.
5. Cereal - this surprised me. It is terrible for you. I was eating plain Cheerios with no sugar frosting and thought I was virtuous. I was wrong. I was shortening my life.
6. Crackers and chips. These have partially-hydrogenated oils - probably the most toxic ingredient currently in the food supply. They are also a major source of carbs. Crackers and chips from a Heath Food store are a reasonable compromise.
7. BBQ sauce. This is just liquid sugar, usually high-fructose corn syrup. it converts meat into caramelized candy.
8. anything with high-fructose corn syrup (which is almost everything that is not a whole food.) The devil's sweetener.
_____________________________________________________________________________
9. Reduce or eliminate dairy - cheese, milk, creams etc. - I'm still working on this.

Supplements to take
The two most important are:
1. Co-Q10 -especially, if you are on statin drugs, run to the drug store immediately and get these pills, because statin drugs interfere with the natural production of COQ10.. Also new research indicates that CoQ10 may have a surprising effect on extending your life.
2. Omega-3 fish oil. It comes in two molecular forms, one is 3x more bio-available than the other. This will help with cardiac health and will also lower your blood pressure, triglycerides, blood sugar and improve circulation. I mean really, no BS.

I haven't mentioned meats. I still eat meats -but I stay away from processed meats (Luncheon meats, hot dogs, bologna) and I try to read labels and favor meat from the butcher rather than meat that is processed elsewhere, then put in plastic and shipped in a truck. Yes, I do eat more chicken and fish than red meats.

Kill Sugar - before it Kills you.

Any supplement or drug you can take can be found through proper nutrition and fasting. Why take a omega 3 fish oil tablet when you can chow down a salmon or tuna for dinner? Why are you taking leptin drugs when fasting has been shown to increase leptin sensitivity? High blood pressure, high cholesterol can all be solved through proper nutrition and fasting as well. All of these people on cholesterol medication and blood pressure medication is unbelievable and quite sad. It's really sad that we live in a world where these big pharmas and billion dollar corporations care more about the fiat paper going into their wallet then actually telling the truth about what's going on. They rather sell you a pill to keep you coming back rather than telling you the truth about what's going on and you can bet every single paper bill in your pocket and wallet that these big pharma executives and doctors know the truth. Not all doctors are out to get you, most are just misinformed drones that were spoon fed bullshit in med school and sticking to the script. Is what it is at this point.

Thomas Jefferson lives and resides on the LVA boards. How blessed are we?