LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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August 23rd, 2016 at 10:03:46 AM permalink
Headline: DEA mines U.S. travel logs

I recently read a long, LONG thread started by Keyser titled, "Driving With Money." Most educational, and highly recommended for anyone with an interest who has not seen it. (Look at threads Keyser started as an easy way to locate it because it's from 2014-2015.)

Mod edit: Link to that thread.

In that thread, when the topic of flying with money came up, most said it wasn't a problem. However, it may be time for a reality check. I recently saw an article in USA Today that reports TSA (usually) doesn't seize cash. But, it seems it now may point out to DEA (or to local law enforcement) people who carry significant cash when traveling. Here's the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/

I'm not sure if my access level allows the link to show, but (if not) perhaps some admin can make it appear.

I wouldn't have (as much of) a problem if if law enforcement had to charge a person (co-conspirator) with a crime to seize the property. No $100 bill has ever committed a crime without the active intervention of a person. But, in more than 1,000 seizures made at LA airports, totaling over $52 million, only one (just ONE!) resulted in a criminal indictment. No national estimate because there is no standard reporting system.

IMO, what now happens in this country is raw, out-and-out theft by law enforcement. And, police seem not to realise this affects their credibility with the public. Go figure.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 23, 2016
777
777
Joined: Oct 7, 2015
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:06:01 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Headline: DEA mines U.S. travel logs

I recently read a long, LONG thread started by Keyser titled, "Driving With Money." Most educational, and highly recommended for anyone with an interest who has not seen it. (Look at threads Keyser started as an easy way to locate it because it's from 2014-2015.)

In that thread, when the topic of flying with money came up, most said it wasn't a problem. However, it may be time for a reality check. I recently saw an article in USA Today that reports TSA (usually) doesn't seize cash. But, it seems it now may point out to DEA (or to local law enforcement) people who carry significant cash when traveling. Here's the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/

I'm not sure if my access level allows the link to show, but (if not) perhaps some admin can make it appear.

I wouldn't have (as much of) a problem if if law enforcement had to charge a person (co-conspirator) with a crime to seize the property. No $100 bill has ever committed a crime without the active intervention of a person. But, in more than 1,000 seizures made at LA airports, totaling over $52 million, only one (just ONE!) resulted in a criminal indictment. No national estimate because there is no standard reporting system.

IMO, what now happens in this country is raw, out-and-out theft by law enforcement. And, police seem not to realise this affects their credibility with the public. Go figure.



The intent of the law is to stop money laundering and other illegal activities. You can carry/transfer (electronically or physically) any amount of money, but the fed, the custom, or applicable law enforcement agencies must be notified if any amount is over limit (I believe $10,000 is the limit)

Law enforcement personnel properly will look at you with lots of suspicion if you are caught with amount of money larger than the limit or any gigantic amount There is no reason to worry if the source of your money is not from any illegal activities.

(Dennis Hastert withdrawn a total of $1 million from several banks by taking out less than $10,000 repeatedly to avoid a mandatory reporting. His repeated withdrawals became suspicious and subsequently he was questioned by the FBI. He lied to the FBI agents about what he had done with the money, and upon further investigation, the money trail led to the discovery that he was a child molester).

You can read more about the sexual predator/former GOP Speaker of the House here:

https://mises.org/blog/dennis-hastert-sentenced-15-months-non-crime-improper-cash-withdrawals
Romes
Romes
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:07:13 AM permalink
...pay $100 to get TSA Pre-Checked... Put cash in pockets and walk through metal detector...

We all know cops + money = cops ROBBING most people of non-drug money, but we also know the steps to prevent this.

1) Pre-check above.
2) Carry W2G's and bank statements
3) Carry Nersessians book(s) and other gambling related books.
4) Don't try to hide the money by sealing it/etc... looks more suspecious.

Seriously, I flew with $12k to vegas a few months back and I just held it in my hands over my head in the body scanner. I kept it in my palm, but at the same time I didn't actively look like I was "hiding" it. The security guard didn't even ask to leaf through it. I just walked through and was good to go.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Romes
Romes
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:09:47 AM permalink
Quote: 777

...Law enforcement personnel properly will look at you with lots of suspicion if you are caught with amount of money larger than the limit or any gigantic amount There is no reason to worry if the source of your money is not from any illegal activities...

This sounds like PaiGowDan and "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide!" I disagree. Asset forfiture is a very real and very scary thing and happens to WAY MORE people doing nothing illegal than it does to criminals. In giving the cops the keys to the criminals cash, we also gave them the keys to our own. Slippery slope. This is why we must take the proper precautions to avoid getting in these situations; did someone mention TSA Pre-check?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:27:24 AM permalink
So, would traveling by car to Vegas with about $9,000 in cash be a problem? I'm assuming that the California Highway Patrol would need some kind of probable cause to search me or my vehicle. Speeding or unsafe lane change wouldn't meet this threshold. Can I just say that I don't give my permission to be searched? Can I ask for a supervisor to be called to the scene?

So having my bank withdrawl receipt with me is a good idea just in case? Should I hide the money in my vehicle or just have it in my pocket?

Should I be concerned about any of this in California?

Is this really an issue traveling by car in 2016?
Romes
Romes
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:34:19 AM permalink
GJ, there's a great Gambling With An Edge about 2 AP's that were traveling with like $80k through Oklahoma and had this issue. They got targeted for out of state plates, followed, then pulled over for no reason. They were asked to search the car, said no, then the cop called in a dog, which of course gave the signal for drugs (which there were none of). Then they searched the car and found the money.

HOWEVER, the AP's did do several things right... They told the cops they were AP's, had W2's and W2G's proving their professional gambler status, had a map of all the places they had been and were going, and had gambling books with them. The reason I'm sharing is this is an old broadcast everyone should have heard and if not it will still be vastly informational/entertaining to go look up.

If you have the same state plates I would worry a bit less, unless you're in a high drug trafficking area. Then I would carry all of the same things above and not give any reasons to be pulled over. In fact, if you see a cop you could start recording with your phone on a dash-holster or something too. You should be fine at that point, but yes plenty of cops have turned in to robbers.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:40:13 AM permalink
Amazing how 40k turns into 80k when Romes tells a story;)
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:48:26 AM permalink
This isn't really a problem. As several others have pointed out, there are several steps you can take to "legitimize" your possession of large amounts of cash, even if you feel passionately that it is yer Gawd-given right as an AMURRICAN CIT O' ZEN to carry cash and you shouldn't have to take such steps. But what if you run afoul of an overzealous TSA agent and lose your cash? Simple. Document everything. Get witnesses' contact information. File a claim for the seized money ASAP. If you aren't found guilty of a crime, you WILL get the money back. Though true, if you do nothing, you might never see it again (because the Feds will, because of that, assume that the money was indeed the result of illegal activity and you therefore prefer to just skulk away). The reports of "theft" are distortions for the most part. Behave like an honest citizen who has that cash for legitimate reasons and you'll get it back, or likely never lose it in the first place. Act like you have something to hide, yell at the cops, refuse to provide ID, and then when you get home, put your efforts into furious blog posts rather than recovering the money, then...not so much.

Believe me, the cops have PLENTY of ways to squeeze money out of us without doing this. Case in point: illegal U-turn traffic ticket in Henderson last year. Fine: $550--and that's after I showed up in court!

Though as I said in another post, carrying large amounts of cash is supremely dumb, for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with the feds or TSA. People who do that might be engaging in anachronistic thinking, when gambling was a societally frowned-upon shady activity and banks were only open Mon-Fri until 3 pm. Back then, you HAD to carry a lot of cash just so you could always stay in action. But now? No point in running the risk.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:48:53 AM permalink
777,

>> ...Dennis Hastert

And, Dennis Hastert got charged with a crime. That's the difference.

If police say they think my money must be involved in some illegal activity, then so am I. The money never does anything by itself. Charge me with whatever crime I may have committed, and let me defend myself (and my property) in a court of law.

Even if cash forfeiture is a good crime-fighting tool, I don't think it is sound policy to say the police get to keep the $$ and use it off-budget for whatever purpose(s) they choose. One of the big problems is that law enforcement now sees this as a way to supplement its budget, with few, if any controls or public oversight of money collected or how it is used.

If we as a society decide cash asset forfeiture is a good policy, let's put it into the public budget, and have the people and their elected representatives decide where it should be spent. Folks responding to Keyser's thread (in my original post) showed where police said they used it for "toys" and showed where police used it to buy a Margarita machine for the employees. (That long thread will possibly open your eyes to a lot about the subject, and it's something everyone should take the time to read. It's a gem.)

Believe whatever you want. I believe current cash asset forfeiture policy is wrong.
777
777
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August 23rd, 2016 at 11:54:55 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

So, would traveling by car to Vegas with about $9,000 in cash be a problem? I'm assuming that the California Highway Patrol would need some kind of probable cause to search me or my vehicle. Speeding or unsafe lane change wouldn't meet this threshold. Can I just say that I don't give my permission to be searched? Can I ask for a supervisor to be called to the scene?

So having my bank withdrawl receipt with me is a good idea just in case? Should I hide the money in my vehicle or just have it in my pocket?

Should I be concerned about any of this in California?

Is this really an issue traveling by car in 2016?



$10,000 non-reporting limit is Federal law. So the law is applicable to all 50 states.

There is no reason to worry with $9000 amount you mention, or even if the amount you carried is greater than $10,000 as long as your money is not from illegal activities. The only time you should worry is if you encounter bad cops, or Arizona’s Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio (or should I add perhaps if you are black or hispanic ????) and there are plenty of bad cops out there.

If you are stopped 99 times by the police and each time your $9000 cash is visibly displayed, then it would certainly raise some level of suspicion.

Speeding and unsafe lane change are not probable cause for property search or body search.

This is a type of cop or law enforcement personnel you should worry whether you carry a tiny or a large sum of money regardless of your race or ethnicity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/us/arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio.html?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FArpaio%2C%20Joseph%20M.&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0
Last edited by: 777 on Aug 23, 2016

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