darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 8:47:37 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

You will probably LOSE in Small Claims court.

And ... GET A LAWYER.

If you go to small claims you get ONE SHOT, for money damages ONLY and its usually not even a judge but a lawyer who thinks he is Solomon.

They may try to say Okay, its not seized for money laundering its seized as unlawful winnings during trespass, but that is not necessarily what the law allows.

Indian casino? What state law applies to trespass?

GET A LAWYER.

.



Its not unlawful winnings. I didn't win anything. I put my own money into the machine. You can't claim unlawful winnings just because someone was cashing out from a casino.

I also don't think a lawyer would take what is a small claims issue.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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April 14th, 2014 at 8:50:40 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Yeah its def small claims. I just wanted advice without being beat up by the trolls. I guess I'll go ahead.

So basically I am banned from a local casino. I am banned because of LEGAL AP play. Not because of anything illegal.

I didn't feel like travelling out my way so I went in disguise. My disguise is excellent. I even shook hands at one point with the security guy who banned me.

I finished gambling and after so many cash-in cash-outs(slots) I had about sixteen hundred in ones, fives and twenties.

Didn't want to carry so many bills so I went to a slot machine and put them all in, then cashed out. Had more than one voucher but it all added up to sixteen hundred.

Went to the cash machine and it said see cashier. I figured there was a barcode error from that slot cause all the vouchers said that.

The cashier scanned them and said I didn't play any spins.

I replied no. Just wanted to consolidate all my small bills.

She replied these have been flagged as money laundering. She could cash them if I presented ID.

I replied its still my money. I offered to go and play some spins but she said it was too late, they were scanned.

She said by law they have to make a report of possible money laundering to the Feds.

I have never been arrested or in trouble with the law and certainly am no money launderer so I really don't care if they look at my name BUT

I was in disguise. My ID don't look like me and I'm banned from the casino. So I said I have no ID and she told me to come back and that only I(in my disguise) could cash them as the vouchers were now flagged and recorded.

SO I am hoping I can get the money through small claims court as I can't prove who I am in disguise nor can I go back as myself nor can I send someone else in.

Even if I was trespassing, it still is my money and we aren't talking a few dollars here.

Any positive help from you guys is appreciated.



My one and only backroom experience is related to a similar situation. I went to the casino ATM, didn't realize that it was going to pay me $x,xxx in $10s, fed the bills into two machines, cashed out, visited the cashier, and got escorted to the backroom. In my case, there was video of me using an empty hand to take the bills from the ATM, not reaching into my pocket, and placing the ATM funds directly into the machines. So my money was returned.

I'm not sure what to think about your case. You went, gambled, and wound up with $1,600. Is that more or less than you started with? If more, you'll have issues because you are not allowed to gamble in this establishment and some of that money is then NOT yours. Really, you may have that same issue if your handle exceeds your session bankroll. You chose to put money into the machines, and you may not be entitled to any winnings on a gross basis.

Is a court case an option for you? You're on the east coast, there's no reservation or tribal court system involved, is there? If you can file in small claims court, you should do so. There's very little chance that the casino will actually send a representative to oppose you, and a judgement in your favor is likely. It'll still be a PITA to get the money (among other things, your judgement does NOT remove the federal reporting requirements), but it can't hurt things.

I realize you don't want to hear this now, but your most basic lesson is the same as mine was. It's worth a min bet to save the BS. Make one spin.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 8:50:43 PM permalink
No not Atlantic City.

New York
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 8:54:39 PM permalink
The vouchers says it is a cash instrument and not a winning ticket or voucher.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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April 14th, 2014 at 8:58:11 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The vouchers says it is a cash instrument and not a winning ticket or voucher.



Really? I've never seen one that said anything other than "cash voucher." Maybe the NY lotto's rules are unique.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 14th, 2014 at 9:00:30 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I also don't think a lawyer would take what is a small claims issue.

FIND OUT.
Small claims courts can't subpoena the casino's tapes.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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April 14th, 2014 at 9:05:16 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Yeah its def small claims. I just wanted advice without being beat up by the trolls. I guess I'll go ahead.

So basically I am banned from a local casino. I am banned because of LEGAL AP play. Not because of anything illegal.

I didn't feel like travelling out my way so I went in disguise. My disguise is excellent. I even shook hands at one point with the security guy who banned me.

I finished gambling and after so many cash-in cash-outs(slots) I had about sixteen hundred in ones, fives and twenties.

Didn't want to carry so many bills so I went to a slot machine and put them all in, then cashed out. Had more than one voucher but it all added up to sixteen hundred.

Went to the cash machine and it said see cashier. I figured there was a barcode error from that slot cause all the vouchers said that.

The cashier scanned them and said I didn't play any spins.

I replied no. Just wanted to consolidate all my small bills.

She replied these have been flagged as money laundering. She could cash them if I presented ID.

I replied its still my money. I offered to go and play some spins but she said it was too late, they were scanned.

She said by law they have to make a report of possible money laundering to the Feds.

I have never been arrested or in trouble with the law and certainly am no money launderer so I really don't care if they look at my name BUT

I was in disguise. My ID don't look like me and I'm banned from the casino. So I said I have no ID and she told me to come back and that only I(in my disguise) could cash them as the vouchers were now flagged and recorded.

SO I am hoping I can get the money through small claims court as I can't prove who I am in disguise nor can I go back as myself nor can I send someone else in.

Even if I was trespassing, it still is my money and we aren't talking a few dollars here.

Any positive help from you guys is appreciated.

Was it an AC casino? They shouldn't be able to ban you if it was. (Never mind, I see you already said before I posted)

When the cashier confronted you, and your response was, "well its still my money" this was after she made claims of money you laundering. That sound like you admitted it. She was within her rights if this was the case. You should have just said, no of course not.

And how is this money laundering anyways? Its called WASHING, casino employees need to learn this, seriously. (I was accused of the same dam thing years ago simply because i was winning at a very small casino everyday and they freaked out. My first 86ing from a casino, because they are idiots) If they are going to stand by their Money laundering reasons for messing with you. I would use that in small claims court, if after they explain that's why they denied payment. simply submit a definition of money laundering ** to legitimize money obtained from certain crimes, such as extortion, insider trading, prostitution, drug trafficking, illegal gambling or tax evasion is "dirty". It needs to be cleaned to appear to have derived from non-criminal activities so that banks and other financial institutions will deal with it without suspicion.

Not sure why you have to disguise yourself for 1600. Normally that's a big money operation. If you are making big money doing what your doing 1600 is not worth the fight better to let sleeping dogs lie.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 9:06:24 PM permalink
The vouchers say on the back they are a bearer instrument and neither the casino nor NY lottery can do anything if they are lost or stolen. So they are the same as cash if lost.

In NYS if you win over six hundred bucks AND it is not true winnings, that will have the words JACKPOT VOUCHER instead of CASH VOUCHER. You must take the jackpot vouchers to the cage where they will cash it out for you without identification.

If you win over six hundred bucks and it is a true win, then it will state LIMITED VOUCHER. You must show ID to cash these.

A JACKPOT VOUCHER would be for example, you bet seven hundred bucks on Banker in Baccarat and there was tie. You would get a JACKPOT VOUCHER even though you won nothing, you were just handed back your own money and now you have to go to a cashier. But no ID is required as you didn't have a true win.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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April 14th, 2014 at 9:23:36 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

FIND OUT.
Small claims courts can't subpoena the casino's tapes.



I don't think the tapes are necessary.

There is no argument the money was placed in the machine and that it is clearly not winnings.

In fact, that's the root of the problem. If I had taken a few spins and won twenty or thirty bucks, the vouchers would have been converted to cash.

Its because I DIDN'T SPIN (and clearly didn't win anything since I didn't spin) that they are accusing me of money laundering.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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April 14th, 2014 at 9:32:28 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I don't think the tapes are necessary.

There is no argument the money was placed in the machine and that it is clearly not winnings.

In fact, that's the root of the problem. If I had taken a few spins and won twenty or thirty bucks, the vouchers would have been converted to cash.

Its because I DIDN'T SPIN (and clearly didn't win anything since I didn't spin) that they are accusing me of money laundering.



That's not really true, though. The cash was in your possession because you'd played on other machines prior to the instant at which you fed the small bills into a machine to get a ticket and cash it for bigger bills. That makes it very very murky about whether the money was winnings. You aren't allowed to play at the casino AT ALL. That you didn't wager on the machine that produced these tickets doesn't mean that the money you put in wasn't "winnings" from earlier disallowed play. And the more I think about it, the more I think it's probably gross winnings that matters - so a push on a $5 bet is $5 in "winnings".
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett

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