I was raped at mile marker 164
Quote: Beethoven9thHuh?? What am I in denial about?
That our forfeiture laws are breeding a culture of corrupt public officials, that's what. This story isn't about treetop's pot use in my opinion. I think your focusing on pot is a way for you to deny that we have a problem with corruption.
Quote: Beethoven9thDouble huh?? The point is that I'm responding to the OP's initial post and subsequent comments.
Yeah, you're missing the point, in my opinion. This story isn't about pot or pot use to me. It's about our civil rights disappearing and people just like you justifying it as being okay either because of suspected marijuana use, or suspected terrorism, or whatever.
You're missing it.
Quote: AhighThat our forfeiture laws are breeding a culture of corrupt public officials, that's what. This story isn't about treetop's pot use in my opinion. I think your focusing on pot is a way for you to deny that we have a problem with corruption.
Yeah, you're missing the point, in my opinion. This story isn't about pot or pot use to me. It's about our civil rights disappearing and people just like you justifying it as being okay either because of suspected marijuana use, or suspected terrorism, or whatever.
You're missing it.
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Quote: treetopbuddyI don't smoke weed. t.
You just sell it. Obviously.
Huh??? This is crazy. Where did I deny that??Quote: AhighThat our forfeiture laws are breeding a culture of corrupt public officials, that's what.
WTF? Did you even read the OP?? It's all about treetopbuddy.Quote: AhighThis story isn't about treetop's pot use in my opinion. I think your focusing on pot is a way for you to deny that we have a problem with corruption.
Again...WTF?? Where did I say any of this?Quote: AhighIt's about our civil rights disappearing and people just like you justifying it as being okay either because of suspected marijuana use, or suspected terrorism, or whatever.
Ahigh, this is just crazy, man. Crazy. Just when I started having a great deal of respect for you, you write something crazy like this?? Where did I say any of the stuff that you just claimed???
I'm speechless. *headshake*
Quote: EvenBobYou just sell it. Obviously.
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I also would guess that when treetop rolled his window down the stank from the pot punched the cop square in the face.
hmm... I can't quite figure out why his car was searched tho.
Quote: treetopbuddyI don't smoke weed.
Quote: treetopbuddyI don't sell weed.
Huh? Then why did you have baggies that smelled like weed? Do you use weed to decorate your house or something??
Quote: rainmanI also would guess that when treetop rolled his window down the stank from the pot punched the cop square in the face.
hmm... I can't quite figure out why his car was searched tho.
+1
Quote: Beethoven9thHuh? Then why did you have baggies that smelled like weed? Do you use weed to decorate your house or something??
He's a mule.
Quote: Beethoven9thHuh? Then why did you have baggies that smelled like weed? Do you use weed to decorate your house or something??
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Quote: treetopbuddyYour moral high ground stance is shameful and reveals volumes about your character and your inability to live as a free man and exposes you fear of free men. That goes for you EvenBob and all the other meddling sissies at the Laddies Sewing Center.
What the hell are you talking about? This is just as weird as Ahigh's last post to me.
I ask a simple question about why had you baggies that smelled of weed, and you go ranting & raving about me not wanting to live as a free man? WTF???
Just curious, is this how your conversation with the cop went?
Quote: Beethoven9thWhat the hell are you talking about? This is just as weird as Ahigh's last post to me.
I ask a simple question about why had you baggies that smelled of weed, and you go ranting & raving about me not wanting to live as a free man? WTF???
Just curious, is this how your conversation with the cop went?
What's weird is that things are spelled out to you plainly, and yet you still fail to comprehend the big picture problem here.
One day in the future, you may find yourself in a similar situation and remember back to your failure to understand in this circumstance.
You only have to be wrongfully accused of a crime once to fully understand what is being described.
Lots of blood was shed to prevent this from happening to our citizens as it did in cultures pre-dating the American culture founded for us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence
If you don't understand the importance of it, I feel very very sorry for you.
Seeing it disappear is very sad. Maybe you're just not old enough to remember what it was like 30 years ago.
And maybe you didn't realize it, but it's also possible that TTB is baiting you into the very sequence of discussion you're participating in. That because an odor of marijuana was detected, keeping the money is all of a sudden alright. Because I think that's the pitfall you've fallen into and also the pitfall that law enforcement has fallen into.
Having a bunch of money in a sealed container that smells like pot only proves that the money was near to some pot (like to roll a joint) in the past.
It doesn't mean that the person who currently possesses the money rolled a joint. Maybe the person who had the money before TTB rolled a joint with the money before they lost it at the casino?
Quote: rainmanHere is the police footage. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JtFBnFS1Y
LOL...haven't seen this one in ages.
And I bet when the guy got home, he went online, visited a gambling forum, and told a sob story about how he was "wronged" after being so nice & polite to the officer. lol
No, what's weird is that I never said any of the things you claimed that I said.Quote: AhighWhat's weird is that things are spelled out to you plainly
Ahigh, read the damn OP. You're way off topic here. And if you read any of my posts in the political threads, you'd know that your claims about what I supposedly believe are just plain silly.Quote: AhighOne day in the future, you may find yourself in a similar situation and remember back to your failure to understand in this circumstance.
Seriously, Ahigh, what the hell does this have to do with the topic of the thread? You are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Treetopbuddy wasn't in court.Quote: Ahighhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence
If you don't understand the importance of it, I feel very very sorry for you.
Bro, what's gotten into you? Again, WHERE did I say any of this????Quote: AhighThat because an odor of marijuana was detected, keeping the money is all of a sudden alright. Because I think that's the pitfall you've fallen into and also the pitfall that law enforcement has fallen into.
Treetopbuddy refuses to answer any questions, so I don't know how YOU know that this is how it all transpired.Quote: AhighHaving a bunch of money in a sealed container that smells like pot only proves that the money was near to some pot (like to roll a joint) in the past.
It doesn't mean that the person who currently possesses the money rolled a joint. Maybe the person who had the money before TTB rolled a joint with the money before they lost it at the casino?
perhaps a receipt from a recently sold yacht etc... It can be done.
People just make stuff up.
They state it as if it were fact.
Arguing ensues.
I'm out.
Waste of time.
Not only that but not a particularly fun one.
Your posts are all the worst I've seen in a while.
I am literally sick of this.
Quote: VCUSkyhawkGodwin's Law Achieved!
I'm surprised it took 16 pages given the level of animosity, should have been in the OP
You had $35k, containers tainted with weed, and vacuum sealer in your possession. The $35k is yours. The containers are yours. You claim to not smoke or sell, so it’s reasonable to suspect you’re either a mule, or some kind of weed Robin Hood that provides “medicine” to those in need. Regardless of what you were really doing, it doesn’t matter. All that matters is the weed tainted containers are yours and the money is yours. (Not to mention the vacuum sealer, which all together, is reasonable suspicious of drug selling activity)
Now, what I think your big bitch is, is not whether or not you were legally carrying federally prohibited material or money somehow involved in federally prohibited material, but the fact that it was discovered by possibly unconstitutional means. On that, I do have something to say…
Become intimate with the term “articulatable reasonable suspicion” (ARS). In layman’s terms, this means that the police may fuck with you if they can communicate to the judge that there was reason to, and the reasons are much easier to justify than we think.
Remember getting your driver’s license, and all the ridiculous rules that none of us ever really follow? We’ll typically travel 70mph down the freeway just close enough to the car in front of us so no one can fit in. It’s common practice, we all do it. It’s also technically “illegal”. No one will road rage about it, traffic cops won’t hassle you for it, but a cop that wants to fuck with you can use it as a reason. Not signaling soon enough, braking too hard, accelerating too quickly, sneezing and crossing the fog line… if they can communicate an ARS for stopping you, then you’re getting stopped. And any cop that wants to pull someone needs only follow them for 5 minutes before they can find something. Count on it.
Now, the questioning is common practice. The simple questions (How you doing? Know why I pulled you over) is to establish a control. The specific questions (Where ya going? What are you doing?) is where they look for changes. Only 10% of what you say is even being heard. LEOs are trained mostly to watch you. 30% of their attention is how you say it. Do you stutter, stumble, have weird inflection in certain answers? The other 60% is what you do physically. Do you look away, fidget, scratch, adjust glasses? It doesn’t matter if you do something totally unrelated to nervousness or guilt, if they want to search and they see something they can communicate ARS on, then you’re getting searched. Count on it.
Now, this doesn’t make it “right”, I’m not arguing that. I’m just stating fact. There’s not much downside for the po-po, assuming they don’t go totally outlaw and break rules egregiously. If they play it smart and sneaky, then worst case is you go through the hassle of court and fighting and get your stuff back. Worst case, it’s just another day for them. Best case, they just got mad scratch for 30 minutes of work, and everyone gets new SHO Ford patrol cars to ram around in. Yee-haw!
Granted, I wasn’t there. I don’t know how things went down, and there’s no way you could communicate that to me. Check out State vs Battle for some more info. It could be you could get it all thrown out if there was no ARS for stopping / searching you in the first place. If there was ARS, you could probably get your money back simply by proving its legal source. If they did have ARS and you did get it by muling weed…
…Dude. You’ve been stopped and hassled on I-70 before. What were you thinking? ;)
Quote: rainmanHere is the police footage. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JtFBnFS1Y
"If you don't pick this up, sir, I'm going to summons you for littering."
Love it!
Lucky guy, anywhere else and he just talked himself into a pair of handcuffs!
Been years since I interfaced with cops on a regular basis, but once a cop decided you are guilty, all bets about fairness are off. Before you jump to the conclusion my view is as an offender, my uncle was NW commander in Baltimore. 4 of my cousins were in law enforcement, and my cousin Jay Landsman is the Baltimore cop that Detective Munch on Law and Order is based on.
Wanna guess what will happen if Tree shows up in Kansas to fight this. He will be arrested for drug trafficking. After a review by the DA charges will be dropped. No chance for Tree to file a malicious prosecution lawsuit. But that arrest will stay there forever. The racing commission will see it, any future employer will see it. Teach him to screw with law enforcement.
Somebody talked about just showing up with proof of where he got the money. Do the words " GUILTY until proven innocent " ring a bell? Hope I don't get stopped. I have a sealer and bags in my van as I type this. Use them for stuff I sell on Amazon. Not that that's anybody's business. Especially a policeman's.
Quote: Buzzard" Granted, I wasn’t there. I don’t know how things went down " I wasn't there. nor was Face. But we are both 90% sure what happened. Face did not have to be there at a particular event to know what probably happened. As a barman Evenbob can finish most bar fight stories before you get halfway through telling him about it.
Yup.
In a lot of ways, this reminds me of the debate we had about ethics, when we talked about Wiz's Red Light Challenge, the specifics of holding penalties in football, and the like. TTB is a novice in this stuff, we all are, mostly. We know the "rules", but we don't have an intimate knowledge. Think of it as any other game. I might know the "rules" of chess, but someone like teliot with an intimate knowledge is going to clean my clock and leave me wondering what happened. He knows the ins and outs. If any of y'all played hockey against me, chances are you'll get held and slashed and hacked and tripped and I'll never receive a penalty. I know hockey rules intimately, I know how to play the game.
Cops, these type specifically, know how to play the game. You know the black and white, they know the grey. Just as I'd get away with a hook that you'd swear was illegal, the cop is going to stay just inside that line (usually) to keep things "legal" while you will swear you were raped.
I don't think the cops crossed that line, based on the law and what I do know from the details. The problem is the laws are retarded. I understand property forfeiture and why is was enacted. I don't condone the way it has turned into what TTB so eloquently refered to as "piracy".
Good luck with the pigeons, TTB. For what it's worth, I do hope you recoup that $35k.
Quote:IF YOU ARE STOPPED IN YOUR CAR
Stop the car in a safe place as quickly as possible. Turn off the car, turn on the internal light, open the window part way and place your hands on the wheel.
Upon request, show police your driver's license, registration and proof of insurance.
If an officer or immigration agent asks to look inside your car, you can refuse to consent to the search. But if police believe your car contains evidence of a crime, your car can be searched without your consent.
Both drivers and passengers have the right to remain silent. If you are a passenger, you can ask if you are free to leave. If the officer says yes, sit silently or calmly leave. Even if the officer says no, you have the right to remain silent.
https://www.aclu.org/
Quote: KeyserSozeSing to the Eagles song "Hotel California" q]
OR Molly Hatchet song "Flirtin with Disaster"
Laws were written for drug seizures in the 80s and have been expanded to cover loopholes. Police abuse this law to get money to their police departments. Research has shown that in states where seizures go to another purpose besides law enforcement (such as education or another state fund), drug interdiction doesn't happen.
I feel fine with the law, but feel that the process to recover your money should be easier should it be legitimately yours. At least the confiscating department should be paying legal costs should they lose.
Quote: FaceYup.
In a lot of ways, this reminds me of the debate we had about ethics, when we talked about Wiz's Red Light Challenge, the specifics of holding penalties in football, and the like. TTB is a novice in this stuff, we all are, mostly. We know the "rules", but we don't have an intimate knowledge. Think of it as any other game. I might know the "rules" of chess, but someone like teliot with an intimate knowledge is going to clean my clock and leave me wondering what happened. He knows the ins and outs. If any of y'all played hockey against me, chances are you'll get held and slashed and hacked and tripped and I'll never receive a penalty. I know hockey rules intimately, I know how to play the game.
Cops, these type specifically, know how to play the game. You know the black and white, they know the grey. Just as I'd get away with a hook that you'd swear was illegal, the cop is going to stay just inside that line (usually) to keep things "legal" while you will swear you were raped.
I don't think the cops crossed that line, based on the law and what I do know from the details. The problem is the laws are retarded. I understand property forfeiture and why is was enacted. I don't condone the way it has turned into what TTB so eloquently refered to as "piracy".
Good luck with the pigeons, TTB. For what it's worth, I do hope you recoup that $35k.
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Quote: mosesOR Molly Hatchet song "Flirtin with Disaster"
"I'm travelin' down the road and I'm flirtin' with disaster
I got my kine bud in the trunk, I smell just like a rasta'
Blues and twos on my rear, aw man, here come the coppers
Now $35k in the hole, they sure did rape me proper" - EB and the Tin Foil Hats
Quote: Face"I'm travelin' down the road and I'm flirtin' with disaster
I got my kine bud in the trunk, I smell just like a rasta'
Blues and twos on my rear, aw man, here come the coppers
Now $35k in the hole, they sure did rape me proper" - EB and the Tin Foil Hats
LOL.....that sums it up......
Quote: treetopbuddyThanks for kind words. I'm guessing you may be joking about recouping the 35.7k.
You're welcome.
It wasn't a joke. Like I said, I don't know all the details, and even if you could type me out a transcript, there's a lot that's unsaid that makes a difference.
Was your OP a vent, lambasting the law? Or a legit claim that you were wronged? Seems it was a vent, but I took it like you were wronged. If you were, there may be recourse, so mine was a legit attempt at assistance. Seems it was more a vent... and that sucks =/
Quote: FaceYou're welcome.
Was your OP a vent, lambasting the law? Or a legit claim that you were wronged? Seems it was a vent, but I took it like you were wronged. If you were, there may be recourse, so mine was a legit attempt at assistance. Seems it was more a vent... and that sucks =/
It wasn't a joke. Like I said, I don't know all the details, and even if you could type me out a
Quote: treetopbuddy
Now, EvenBob and his ilk believe that I should do hard time for possessing a container that smells of marijuana but EvenBob is a **************. who *********. in ****.
LOL. I picture Treetop foaming at the mouth smashing his keyboard as he types this.
Quote: BuzzardHope I don't get stopped. I have a sealer and bags in my van as I type this.
C'mon man, a sealer, baggies, AND a marijuana smell?? It doesn't take Isaac Newton to put 2 and 2 together.
Quote: treetopbuddyHe could say he simply smelled pot.....probable cause. He didn't smell pot. The containers were sealed.
My guess is that you were acting the same way you've been acting in this thread. If so, that's what tipped the guy off.
What is the most important thing a lawyer can do for his client ?
Face knows, EvenBob should, and Acesof spades will take the fifth.
Quote: VCUSkyhawkLOL. I picture Treetop foaming at the mouth smashing his keyboard as he types this.
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Quote: Beethoven9thC'mon man, a sealer, baggies, AND a marijuana smell?? It doesn't take Isaac Newton to put 2 and 2 together.
My guess is that you were acting the same way you've been acting in this thread. If so, that's what tipped the guy off.
Anybody that could have not been subject to search and seizure on this traffic stop would win an Academy Award for best actor on the planet. This script was written in the cops mind before Tree said a word !
Quote: BuzzardThis script was written in the cops mind before Tree said a word !
I'll ask again: How do you know so much about what happened that day?
Wanna try answering my lawyer question ?
Riiiiiiight...
Quote: BuzzardWanna try answering my lawyer question ?
No, because I'm not a lawyer. I don't think you are, either.
Quote: BuzzardAnybody that could have not been subject to search and seizure on this traffic stop would win an Academy Award for best actor on the planet. This script was written in the cops mind before Tree said a word !
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Quote: BuzzardAnybody that could have not been subject to search and seizure on this traffic stop would win an Academy Award for best actor on the planet. This script was written in the cops mind before Tree said a word !
I can tell you with 100% certainty that if it was me that got stopped on that same day(or any other day) at the same place (or any other place) and same time (or any other time), I would not have had drug residue, drug paraphernalia or (most likely) drug money in my car. The cop could make up any violation he wants to stop me. He would find nothing and I would most likely be on my way in a few minutes with a warning.
If you have nothing to hide, you're not all that worried about it.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I can tell you with 100% certainty that if it was me that got stopped on that same day(or any other day) at the same place (or any other place) and same time (or any other time), I would not have had drug residue, drug paraphernalia or (most likely) drug money in my car. The cop could make up any violation he wants to stop me. He would find nothing and I would most likely be on my way in a few minutes with a warning.
If you have nothing to hide, you're not all that worried about it.
ZCore13[/]
I'm guessing the only thing you would have had in your car would be the ....John Tesh "Intelligence for your life".... book. heheEach day is better than the next
Quote: treetopbuddyPiracy on I-70.
A pirate is somebody who steals from law abiding
people. Police enforce the law. You were breaking
the law. Police are not pirates, that's ludicrous.
They're just smarter than you. Obviously. Now you
have the taste of sour milk in your mouth and are
throwing a tantrum. They bested you, like I'm sure
they will again.
ZCore13
Another American who thinks you have no Constitutional rights against unlawful search and seizure. Probably OK if a cop wants to come into his house and look for dirty books under his bed.
And to think of all the young men in the service who give their lives to protect our right as American citizens.
Have you no shame Sir, have you no shame ?
Just exactly what traffic violation allows your car to be searched ? Have you ever been stopped for a DWB, Bob ?
Quote: BuzzardAnother American who thinks you have no Constitutional rights against unlawful search and seizure. Probably OK if a cop wants to come into his house and look for dirty books under his bed.
WTF?
I doubt anyone here supports unlawful searches. The only problem is that I'm not so sure that this particular search was unlawful. I have a feeling that TREEvon Martin may have started acting up, and that's what tipped the cop off.
But it's all speculation on my part AND on your part.
ZCore13
My Point of Reference. And who I was responding to. That's the comment that lit my fuse !
