Obamacare
Quote: steeldcoSorry EvenBob, I don't believe that it will get worse....it may, but I don't think so.
?
Many people on the Titanic were convinced it wasn't sinking
until it was actually going down. That's a fact, about half
the survivors didn't believe it was sinking. The writing is
on the wall for Titanicare.
Quote: anonimussAnd the Titanic started as a trickle at the instant of impact.
funny
Hey steeldco, there is one seat left on the last lifeboat...jump in man.
nah thats ok I think I will "wait and see what happens"
Quote: treetopbuddyTrying to get my facts straight.....as per your advice. So on my fact finding mission, I learned that the DEA was created in 1973 under an Executive Order signed by Nixon. Forty years and 700 or so billion dollars later.....how's it working?
I don't know...how's the War on Drunk Driving working?
(Like I said before, I specifically criticized a particular argument, not the position itself. You seem to forget that. That is, if you read it at all. Also, I should add that arguing against the DEA and arguing in favor of legalizing drugs are two different things.)
Quote: anonimussAnd the Titanic started as a trickle at the instant of impact.
Quote: LarrySHey steeldco, there is one seat left on the last lifeboat...jump in man.
nah thats ok I think I will "wait and see what happens"
LOL!
Then he'll bring up Bill Gates and Warren Buffett! :D
Quote: steeldcoEvenBob, really? You want to include the opinions of the less bright? What is your point? You don't care about the intelligence level of anyone taking part in the debate?
LOL...a liberal so used to contorting the facts he confused himself. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes.
was just on TV. He says as of today nothing has been
fixed on the security and they actually found 2 more
flaws. He claims he can't be fixed because security has
to be put in a system as you build it. It's like the guy
who builds a boat in his basement. Once it's done, the
only way to get it out is take it apart and start again.
Quote: FaceThe War on Drugs is a fascinating topic on which I have much to say. But not here. I'd suggest not mixing threads because this would be a very large derail indeed.
Just took the "It's all Bush's fault" out of a lot of sails, there.
It looks more like batting practice to me. Little League level. Except for the tons and tons of taxpayer money being thrown all over the place to not much effect.Quote: steeldcoYou have to keep in mind that we're barely into pre-game warm-ups let alone the 1st. inning of the game.
40% of the young people they polled say they'll pay
a fine rather than sign up. Two weeks ago the same
poll was 25%. A month from now it will be over 50%.
The average healthy young person was paying $50
a month before Obamacare. Now the average is $225,
with a high deductible. Would you pay that if you were
a healthy young kid? Hell no. That's a car payment.
Quote: tournamentkingWhat healthy young person is going to look this over and say "Hey, I probably won't need much healthcare this coming year, but I'll be glad to pay 4-5 times what I was already paying along with the quadrupled deductible, just so I can do my part to help pay the insurance companies for their losses because of all the old people they now have to cover"? It's insane. If I were young I'd pay the tax..I mean, fine..and use the emergency rooms if needed. Then I'd buy a new stereo with the thousands I save by using my head.
True
If you had a perfectly sound house, would you buy homeowners insurance if you could save the premiums over the years, or just pay a little fine for not having it....but then when your house burns down you can show up at allstate and hand them a check for the first months premium and tell them to rebuild your house.
Quote: tournamentkingWhat healthy young person is going to look this over and say "Hey, I probably won't need much healthcare this coming year, but I'll be glad to pay 4-5 times what I was already paying along with the quadrupled deductible, just so I can do my part to help pay the insurance companies for their losses because of all the old people they now have to cover"? It's insane. If I were young I'd pay the tax..I mean, fine..and use the emergency rooms if needed. Then I'd buy a new stereo with the thousands I save by using my head.
Don't tell that to steeldco. He's like that old man who refused to leave Mount St. Helens.
"Let's wait & see if it erupts!" lol...
Quote: tournamentkingThen I'd buy a new stereo with the thousands I save by using my head.
Get your parents to co-sign and $225 is a car payment.
At least that way you're getting something for you money.
After I left home I didn't have health insurance till I was
35. Never needed it, as most young people don't.
opening a buffet in a town full of fat people.
For every glutton, you need three old ladies
who pick at their food. If you get mostly
gluttons, you won't be in business long.
Not so smart if you're supporting a giant elephant in the state and awaiting either interest or redemption payments:Quote: rxwineRomneycare which has a mandate (which didn't fail in Massachusetts) is now expanding out to the other states. Waiting is the smart thing to do.
"October 10 2013, Crippling State and Local Retiree Liabilities
With only $63 billion set aside, the state and municipalities have funded less than half—just 43 percent—of the $146 billion they need to pay for benefits already promised to current employees and retirees." Mass. Taxpayers Foundation
Can't wait to see what happens when Chicago and Illinois go under. Could be even more drastic than California.
Don Imus
Like I said with increased deductables and increased rx cost....the people that put obama in office are getting hurt the most
lower icome people and now gay people
each week we hear more and more of what is contained in the 2000 page fiasco plan
I agree, without the Obamacare law, these insurance companies would pay 100% for all the medicines that sick people need and they would never ever rescind coverage for the flimsiest of excuses or deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. We should have just let the insurers alone without any regulation.Quote: LarryShttp://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/aids-advocates-say-drug-coverage-in-some-marketplace-plans-is-inadequate/2013/12/09/0fca0fd0-5d18-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html
Like I said with increased deductables and increased rx cost....the people that put obama in office are getting hurt the most
lower icome people and now gay people
each week we hear more and more of what is contained in the 2000 page fiasco plan
so people who had HIV that had their meds fully covered before, now will pay hundreds more a month for these meds, so that the insurance company can accept a bunch of people with pre-existing conditions.....hiv, brain tumors, alzheimers....
Ya think if obama was hinest when talking to gay groups...telling them that the people who haver cirrent full coverage will be paying hundreds more per month so that others who dont currently have coverage can be accepted by their plan...he would have gotten the support.
So a HIV person goes from a 30 dollar copay to paying 50 percent for their meds....can translate to 1000.00 per month...rather than 90 dollars per month.(30 x 3 rxs)
So as it turns out the insurance companies are not paying any more in order to get more people covered....the costs are distrubuted among the policy holders.
and as we see. ways to increase the expenses/ costs to the policyholders is to increae deductables., increase copays, and increase percent of prescription coverage.
someone has to pay for it...and as I said...the people who voted obama into office are getting hurt the most....the lower income people and the gay community.
Quote: LarryS
someone has to pay for it...and as I said...the people who voted obama into office are getting hurt the most....the lower income people and the gay community.
The scuttlebutt is, behind closed doors the administration
is in a blind panic. This thing is falling apart before their
eyes. Young people are avoiding it like the plague and that
cancels out the whole thing. They can't force them to join,
Obamacare is imploding. What a shame.
Quote: EvenBobThe scuttlebutt is, behind closed doors the administration
is in a blind panic. This thing is falling apart before their
eyes. Young people are avoiding it like the plague and that
cancels out the whole thing. They can't force them to join,
Obamacare is imploding. What a shame.
well yeah, who is going to force them to sign up and pay. Or who watches as people sign up for one month and then lets their policy lapse(like people do with car insurance)
who are the insurance police that are going to enforce this?
If I dont sign up for insurance at work...what is it my employers business if I am covered under my wifes policy(which I am)....
or if I quit my job...who is going to shadow mw to make sure I continue coverage?
if its all on the honor system we are fk'd
Quote: LarrySOr who watches as people sign up for one month and then lets their policy lapse(like people do with car insurance)
This is also a huge problem waiting in the wings.
People who have good intentions and realize they
can't afford it after the 2nd month and stop paying.
Some estimates are a 20% drop out rate in the offing.
If it's paying the utilities bills or your out of sight
insurance, guess which they'll pay.
We have a huge election in 10.5 months. This will be
in the headlines every week till then.
Quote: EvenBobThis is also a huge problem waiting in the wings.
People who have good intentions and realize they
can't afford it after the 2nd month and stop paying.
Some estimates are a 20% drop out rate in the offing.
If it's paying the utilities bills or your out of sight
insurance, guess which they'll pay.
We have a huge election in 10.5 months. This will be
in the headlines every week till then.
So then we are back where we started, where people show up at hospitals for medical care without insurance.
So what happens...do they sign him up for insurance for that day///amd then the insurance lapses the next month or the month after.
how is this an improvement over what used to happen
Quote: LarrySSo then we are back where we started, where people show up at hospitals for medical care without insurance.
I'm amazed at how the young have turned on Obama.
He was their god when they thought Obamacare was
free. Now that they see they are bearing the brunt
of the load, they hate his guts. This is a very avaricious
generation, they love their Iphones and 'stuff'.
now even before obamacare we have less young healthy people enrolling, and an epidemic of obesity in the USA and mexico.
and people wonder wht healthcare costs were going up every year.....they blamed the greedy doctors and insurance companies.
all they had to do is look at themselves...to find the answer.
I don't think I've been to one physician (besides a psychiatrist) since I've had the policy. Sick people of the world, you're welcome :)
Quote: teddysI signed up for the cheapest policy I could find online, pre-ObamaCare. It was about $165 for six months of coverage. High deductible. Basically only covers complete dismemberment.
:)
That same policy under Obamacare costs $300 a month
with a $7000 deductible.
Can someone take a stab at what the heck he was trying to say (other than 'Obamacare bad!')?Quote: Rick SantorumIf we have a system where the government is going to be the principal provider of health care for the country, we’re done. Because then, you are dependent on the government for your life and your health… When Thatcher ran for prime minister she said—remember this, this is the Iron Lady—she said, ‘The British national health care system is safe in my hands.’ She wasn’t going to take on health care, because she knew once you have people getting free health care from the government, you can’t take it away from them. And the reason is because most people don’t get sick, and so free health care is just that, free health care, until you get sick. Then, if you get sick and you don’t get health care, you die and you don’t vote. It’s actually a pretty clever system. Take care of the people who can vote and people who can’t vote, get rid of them as quickly as possible by not giving them care so they can’t vote against you. That’s how it works.
Quote: s2dbakerRepublican former Senator, Rick Santorum makes a word salad:Can someone take a stab at what the heck he was trying to say (other than 'Obamacare bad!')?
Rick Santorum is a clown. This guy is against higher education. education???? How can you be against education?
I don't have the foggiest idea what he is talking about. Its all gibberish.
Of course with somebody against education, I would expect nonsensical gibberish.
Quote: anonimussBut with obama making 7% unemployment the new acceptable norm and unable to even launch a website, the libs still drop to their knees and weep whenever he speaks even though they know it's all pure bs and denial. The story never changes, just the day.
isnt unemployment based on people that are on unemployment, and the people over that last few years that ran out of unemployment benefits are not seen as being "unemployd" even if they are unemployed
Quote: terapinedRick Santorum is a clown. This guy is against higher education. education???? How can you be against education?
I don't have the foggiest idea what he is talking about. Its all gibberish.
Of course with somebody against education, I would expect nonsensical gibberish.
He is not against higher education, if you believe that you believed if you like your health insurance you could keep it.
What he is against is automatically sending kids to college when most do not belong there.
Bureau of labor statistics.
Quote: AZDuffmanHe is not against higher education, if you believe that you believed if you like your health insurance you could keep it.
What he is against is automatically sending kids to college when most do not belong there.
He has on multiple occasions referred to colleges as indoctrination centers and says we shouldn't fund them. So how do you not see that as against higher education.
Oh also Obama didn't just say college he also mentioned vocational schools. The fact of the matter is for the vast majority of people a high school diploma will not get them to where they want to be in the future and so saying to do something to better yourself is not unreasonable.
Quote: TwirdmanHe has on multiple occasions referred to colleges as indoctrination centers and says we shouldn't fund them. So how do you not see that as against higher education.
Have you seen what is going on at so many colleges? He is correct about them being indoctrination centers. And if a college chooses to become little more than a far-left think-tank we should consider pulling their funding. If you follow the news beyond MSNBC you will see this is too often the case on campus.
Nor will a college degree for many. Nor will postgraduate degrees in some cases. Not when plumbers, electricians and the like can be pulling in three figures an hour.Quote: TwirdmanThe fact of the matter is for the vast majority of people a high school diploma will not get them to where they want to be in the future.
Quote: steeldcoKeyser, I realize that I'm not supplying any proof of the following so obviously you can choose not to believe me.
I used the healthcare.gov website and I found it to have a premium that is 10% less than what my policy currently costs.
Chances are that I won't be using it since my premiums are 65% paid by a company that I do some work for currently. However, the options are being examined by the company (by me actually) to determine whether our current insurance broker for our group policy will be able to reduce the company's premiums in a similar amount. If not, one of the options being examined is whether we can give the employees the current 65% and have them go to healthcare.gov to obtain a policy. A seemingly win/win situation.
OK. So yesterday I received the results of the study by the company's insurance broker for one of the companies that I work with. The broker's recommendation is to give everyone a raise and have them enroll in the exchange. They would be able to obtain better overall coverage (deductible would increase by $500, but office visits would decrease from $30 to $15, the co-insurance would increase from 70% to 80%, and the out of pocket max would drop from $6000 to $3500). 80%+ of the company's employees are in Tennessee and we would see a 30.5% reduction in premiums. The next largest group of employees would be Illinois based and we would see an INCREASE there of 21.98%. Net, net, everyone wins in this case.
Just the facts.
Quote: anonimussHe's against using taxpayer dollars to fund liberal indoctrination centers. How do you not see that? And might as well focus on elementary schools as well. The NEA has become a political arm of the democratic party at taxpayer expense. Apparently preaching the virtues of gay sex and the evils of fossil fuels to children is more important than having the kids actually learn how to read and write. And a college education isn't a right. There will always be ditch diggers and stable hands and an adequate supply of people whose skill set and between ear horsepower rating qualifies them particularly for those jobs. Nothing like sitting in a college class with a professor who has to constantly slow down and repeat mildly complicated topics for those who were accepted through a lessening of the standards to "make things fair for everybody". The students who actually belong in a college class suffer from a poorer quality of education as a result of waiting for the everybody-deserves-a-college-education crowd to catch up...or to at least furrow their brows and nod as if they understood when they realize the rest of the class is staring at them.
This is all totally absurd. I went to the University of Maryland College Park.
I took a course in political ecience.
Prof Dan Devine taught the course.
Such a hard core conservative, he was hired by the Reagan administration.
Great prof, learned alot from him. He argued passionatly for both a left and right system.
Fantastic prof, didn't know he was a conservatiov till Reagan administration hired him.
Unbelievable , conservatives dissing all the great consertative profs in the world
Quote: terapined
Great prof, learned alot from him. He argued passionatly for both a left and right system.
Fantastic prof, didn't know he was a conservatiov till Reagan administration hired him.
Unbelievable , conservatives dissing all the great consertative profs in the world
LOL, I'm sure you went to college. It's "a lot", "passionately" and "conservative".
Quote: terapinedProf Dan Devine taught the course.
Such a hard core conservative,
One guy. LOL!
For every conservative professor, there are about 10-20 liberal ones out there.
Quote: Beethoven9thOne guy. LOL!
For every conservative professor, there are about 10-20 liberal ones out there.
Dan Devine, best professor I ever had.
A conservative at that.
Yea I suck at spelling. Everybody on the board knows that.
The message from the thinktank on this forum: don't go to college -- you'll be indoctrinated as a liberal, and we can't have that. Instead, take a trade, because America needs tradespeople. I guess we should just stop people from going to college to prevent that from happening, and you'll turn the nation into a bunch of semi-literate tradespeople with no sense of innovation. Good move.
I'm waiting to hear the message not to live in big cities either because you'll be indoctrinated there as a liberal and that one should take up farming to avoid the "liberal" way of thinking. Or that buying a Hybrid is liberal, and therefore, you should go buy a Ford F-150 superCab, cause F*** the environment.
Just maybe there's a link between intelligence and liberalism that has nothing to do with professors.
And just maybe there are exceptions to that. I'll give one example, my wife, a UC Berkeley graduate who is just as conservative as the bulk of you and doesn't respond to interesting issues with the standard FoxNews manure or the classic *facepalm* but actually gives decent viewpoints (wrong as I think they are) based on logic, which I respect (or pretend I do to get some).
The problem is that our high schools are such crap that college is actually necessary to unlearn the BS they teach you. No one should graduate high school without: A. knowing basic differential and integral calculus and linear algebra; B. having some sense of historiography; and perhaps most importantly C. being able to explain why almost everything said by ID proponents is balls.
Is it still too soon to tell? After all, we had to first pass it before we could find out what was in it, and it may take quite a while to figure out what is truly in such a large bill, especially since the overwhelming majority of our fearless leaders will not be living by the same law as us mere common folk.
December is when I knew I would get more concrete information regarding this circus labeled as "affordable".
Beginning January 1, 2014:
1. My deductible increases exactly 44%.
2. Tier 3 (brand-name non-formulary) drugs are removed from coverage. Even if a generic does not exist, I'm still required to pay full price.
3. The premium for family members doubles (a 100% increase). Each family member over three will cost an additional $1800 annually.
4. Were I to gross $150K or more annually, I would be responsible for 100% of coverage, including family members (IOW, no contribution by the company).
5. For those who smoke, the "tobacco premium" doubles (100% increase).
6. The company contribution decreases from 50% to 23%.
7. All individuals enrolled in the plan are "encouraged" to have one routine preventative office visit per year. This was formerly known as an annual physical/checkup. While not required, the penalty for not doing so is an additional $25 per month.
8. I knew there had to be a reason for the "encouragement" of the annual office visit. Individuals identified with, or suspect to, chronic, high-risk conditions must enroll and actively engage in one of the "disease management programs".
If you are a tobacco user, you have to take a cessation course.
If you are deemed overweight during the physical, no more private discussion with your doctor about the most effective weight-loss method for you; now you get to take a one-size-fits-all program irregardless of whether it works for you.
Are you diabetic, pre-diabetic, or just have higher blood sugar the day your blood was taken? You need to take a course on proper diet.
And much more.
If you have been identified as a high-risk individual and do not participate in one of the management programs, the penalty is an additional $25 per month.
9. The maximum out-of-pocket has an increase of 81.4% for those with employee-only coverage. Maximum out-of-pocket for families increases by 69.3%.
10. Finally, some good news. The IRS has, out of the goodness of their hearts, decided to increase my maximum annual tax deductible HSA contribution by fifty dollars ($50.00)!
Yippeee! That oughta pay for the above increases!
