Obamacare
December 4th, 2013 at 2:19:25 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerProof on page 49 of this thread.
You saved over a COBRA policy on policy cost alone. Can you link to where you compared deductibles and POTENTIAL costs should something bad happen? I can't remember if you made that comparison or not, but I hear way too many people saying they have lower policy costs but not the potential nightmare of huge deductibles they did not face before.
If you save $100 a month on your premium and spend nothing else, that is great. If you save $100 a month on your rpemium and spend $5,000 extra on deductibles, not so much...
Comparing costs only works if you really compare costs...
December 4th, 2013 at 7:39:12 PM
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I've never hit my deductible ceiling. I've always had prescription coverage and have gone to an in-network doctor so I've always had to pay the co-pay only. Many years ago, I had a different insurance plan that took care of my tonsillectomy and a few years later, my umbilical hernia operation. All in-network and I didn't have to contribute to the deductible except for a couple of labs that went out to the wrong company. It was a couple of hundred bucks and I put up a stink but I eventually paid the bill after making the lab fix one of their errors, long story..Quote: RonCQuote: s2dbakerProof on page 49 of this thread.
You saved over a COBRA policy on policy cost alone. Can you link to where you compared deductibles and POTENTIAL costs should something bad happen? I can't remember if you made that comparison or not, but I hear way too many people saying they have lower policy costs but not the potential nightmare of huge deductibles they did not face before.
If you save $100 a month on your premium and spend nothing else, that is great. If you save $100 a month on your rpemium and spend $5,000 extra on deductibles, not so much...
Comparing costs only works if you really compare costs...
If my current plan, which is pretty good, has one of those deductible ceilings then I don't know about it. I gave a half-hearted attempt to look it up but I couldn't find the information at the Aetna site. My new policy has a deductible ceiling that I never anticipate hitting.
But since I posted all that, I am glad to announce that I now will be a full time employee with a new healthcare package under Emblem Health (the people who covered my tonsils and hernia). I also don't know all the details of the new plan yet but I think everything should go smoothly but as of now, I can no longer say I was helped by Obamacare since that policy never actually kicked in.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
December 5th, 2013 at 1:52:56 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerI've never hit my deductible ceiling. I've always had prescription coverage and have gone to an in-network doctor so I've always had to pay the co-pay only. Many years ago, I had a different insurance plan that took care of my tonsillectomy and a few years later, my umbilical hernia operation. All in-network and I didn't have to contribute to the deductible except for a couple of labs that went out to the wrong company. It was a couple of hundred bucks and I put up a stink but I eventually paid the bill after making the lab fix one of their errors, long story..Quote: RonCQuote: s2dbakerProof on page 49 of this thread.
You saved over a COBRA policy on policy cost alone. Can you link to where you compared deductibles and POTENTIAL costs should something bad happen? I can't remember if you made that comparison or not, but I hear way too many people saying they have lower policy costs but not the potential nightmare of huge deductibles they did not face before.
If you save $100 a month on your premium and spend nothing else, that is great. If you save $100 a month on your rpemium and spend $5,000 extra on deductibles, not so much...
Comparing costs only works if you really compare costs...
If my current plan, which is pretty good, has one of those deductible ceilings then I don't know about it. I gave a half-hearted attempt to look it up but I couldn't find the information at the Aetna site. My new policy has a deductible ceiling that I never anticipate hitting.
But since I posted all that, I am glad to announce that I now will be a full time employee with a new healthcare package under Emblem Health (the people who covered my tonsils and hernia). I also don't know all the details of the new plan yet but I think everything should go smoothly but as of now, I can no longer say I was helped by Obamacare since that policy never actually kicked in.
A plan with no deductible, or a very low one, SHOULD cost more than a similar plan with a higher deductible...just like car insurance does. Saving on the cost of the policy is great (for the ones that do under Obamacare; of course, I wonder how many of those there will actually be) but the important thing for people who actually get ill or injured is how much they will have to pay. $0 deductible versus $11,000 is huge--that is almost $1,000 a month.
Where will the poor people in that kind of policy go? They'll be insured but they'll end up not being able to pay their medical bills. The only difference is that we (people paying their way plus subsidizing the lower income folks) will be paying for their insurance via our taxes (subsidies) and premiums that will be higher to cover their costs. They'll still suffer bankruptcy if they have too many years of illness and we will still end up paying their costs, just in a different way.
We lose. It will just take some longer to figure it out than others.
December 5th, 2013 at 2:51:19 AM
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If they stay in-network, it shouldn't get there.Quote: RonC..but the important thing for people who actually get ill or injured is how much they will have to pay. $) deductible versus $11,000 is huge--that is almost $1,000 a month.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
December 5th, 2013 at 3:21:08 AM
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Quote: RonC
We lose. It will just take some longer to figure it out than others.
Obama won. America lost.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
December 5th, 2013 at 3:54:52 AM
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America won :)Quote: AZDuffmanObama won. America lost.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
December 5th, 2013 at 3:58:35 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanObama won. America lost.
Democracy won.
This is the greatest country on the planet due to democracy.
Go USA. Go Obama.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
December 5th, 2013 at 4:31:49 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanObama won. America lost.
Quote: s2dbakerAmerica won :)
Quote: terapinedDemocracy won.
This is the greatest country on the planet due to democracy.
Go USA. Go Obama.
Again, I knew that you two would say the same thing you always do no matter how badly the President lies...he won, it was great for democracy. Perhaps him winning was a great thing for our democracy--it should teach us to be a lot more careful who we choose in the future. The highlight of his Presidency? Inauguration. His leadership? Inept, at best. He built support for his signature program on a series of calculated lies.
Arguing with s2dbaker is really an exercise in futility because he refuse to concede any point. I'm not even sure he is convinced Obama lied about Obamacare. Since that has been acknowledged, it should be an easy point to concede.
December 5th, 2013 at 4:36:32 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerIf they stay in-network, it shouldn't get there.
Well, well, well...it isn't just me saying this...
"Americans seeking cheap insurance on the Obamacare health exchanges may be in for sticker shock if they get sick next year, as consumers trade lower premiums for out-of-pocket costs that can top $6,000 a person."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/obamacare-deductibles-26-higher-make-cheap-rates-a-risk.html
The poor aren't going to be able to afford this; the middle class will get poorer because of it. The insurance companies will make out because that is who Obamacare is really for...we haven't created true competition in insurance at all.
December 5th, 2013 at 5:25:34 AM
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Quote: RonCAgain, I knew that you two would say the same thing you always do no matter how badly the President lies...
It's funny because both of them sound exactly like the Bush lovers they so despise.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 5th, 2013 at 5:40:35 AM
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Fox is reporting that Secretary Sebelius, in charge of the roll-out of the most extensive overhaul of the healthcare system in history, met with the President in a one-on-one or small group (one or two cabinet members) one time in 3.5 years leading up to the roll-out.
I don't know the time frame, but wasn't that guy from the SEIU at the White House 60-70 times over the course of this Presidency?
What I see in that is a President who is more interested in courting unions, their voters, and getting their cash than in making sure his signature program works and is a good legacy when he leaves office.
Don't say it, sycophants...let me see what your excuses will be...
--It was Fox news; it can't be true
--His minions were overseeing the program and he didn't need to know what was going on in any meaningful way
--We won
--His next election is important
I don't know the time frame, but wasn't that guy from the SEIU at the White House 60-70 times over the course of this Presidency?
What I see in that is a President who is more interested in courting unions, their voters, and getting their cash than in making sure his signature program works and is a good legacy when he leaves office.
Don't say it, sycophants...let me see what your excuses will be...
--It was Fox news; it can't be true
--His minions were overseeing the program and he didn't need to know what was going on in any meaningful way
--We won
--His next election is important
December 5th, 2013 at 6:03:28 AM
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Sorry S2baker,
I don't believe that you're comparing apples to apples. For starters, everyone that kept there health insurance saw their rates go up a min. of about 60% earlier in the year, or last year. Private insurance rates will go up again, another 40% next year, according to my insurance broker.
So you're likely just comparing the new increased rate to the Obamacare rate.
What many people don't realize is that Obamacare raised their private health insurance rates as well! So now, when they go to compare their new raised rate to the Obamacare rate, they see that Obamacare is, perhaps, a bit more or compatible, or more expensive. In the end, most people are seeing about a 100% increase compared to what they were paying for health insurance just two years ago.
Thank you "low information voters"! I'm beginning to wish that there was a test that people had to take in order to prove that they're competent to vote!
-Keyser
I don't believe that you're comparing apples to apples. For starters, everyone that kept there health insurance saw their rates go up a min. of about 60% earlier in the year, or last year. Private insurance rates will go up again, another 40% next year, according to my insurance broker.
So you're likely just comparing the new increased rate to the Obamacare rate.
What many people don't realize is that Obamacare raised their private health insurance rates as well! So now, when they go to compare their new raised rate to the Obamacare rate, they see that Obamacare is, perhaps, a bit more or compatible, or more expensive. In the end, most people are seeing about a 100% increase compared to what they were paying for health insurance just two years ago.
Thank you "low information voters"! I'm beginning to wish that there was a test that people had to take in order to prove that they're competent to vote!
-Keyser
December 5th, 2013 at 7:59:33 AM
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Quote: RonC
What I see in that is a President who is more interested in courting unions, their voters, and getting their cash than in making sure his signature program works and is a good legacy when he leaves office.
Obama is a macro manager. He waves his hand,
and leaves all the details to somebody else. He has
no idea how to delegate responsibility. He's
grossly incompetent, obviously. He's a professional
politician, real work confuses and irritates him.
He's real good at giving speech's and watching
sports on TV. He wants to be a sports commentator
when he's out of th WH. He's basically a useless
boob.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
December 5th, 2013 at 10:52:07 AM
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50,000 Sign up for Internet Gambling in NJ; 741 for Obamacare
Excerpt:
LOL!
Excerpt:
Quote:"...fifty thousand people signed up online for New Jersey’s gambling sites in the first week. That compares with 741 who signed up for Obamacare during all of October."
LOL!
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 5th, 2013 at 10:59:00 AM
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Quote: EvenBobObama is a macro manager. He waves his hand,
and leaves all the details to somebody else. He has
no idea how to delegate responsibility. He's
grossly incompetent, obviously. He's a professional
politician, real work confuses and irritates him.
He's real good at giving speech's and watching
sports on TV. He wants to be a sports commentator
when he's out of th WH. He's basically a useless
boob.
Useless boob? He has a sweet 3 point shot.
Each day is better than the next
December 5th, 2013 at 12:13:43 PM
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Quote: terapinedDemocracy won.
This is the greatest country on the planet due to democracy.
Go USA. Go Obama.
You have clearly demonstrated that you do not understand the how the US Gov was created. We are a Constitutional Republic governed by laws, not a Democracy.
A democracy is where the mob rules.
If you think democracy is so great, shouldn't gay marraige be illegal anywhere it has ben put to a popular vote and failed?
December 5th, 2013 at 4:10:05 PM
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He's just another "I'm a Republican but I voted for obama" shill. You can mark him absent.
December 5th, 2013 at 4:17:39 PM
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+1Quote: timberjimYou have clearly demonstrated that you do not understand the how the US Gov was created. We are a Constitutional Republic governed by laws, not a Democracy.
A democracy is where the mob rules.
If you think democracy is so great, shouldn't gay marraige be illegal anywhere it has ben put to a popular vote and failed?
Ooooo, this is an epic slam!
You can also throw it in the faces of libs who sanctimoniously proclaim "It's the law!" when arguing in support of Obamacare. They become strangely silent when you say, "OK, well gay marriage has been banned in 30+ states. Stop fighting because IT'S THE LAW!"
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 5th, 2013 at 4:23:35 PM
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Quote: anonimussHe's just another "I'm a Republican but I voted for obama" shill. You can mark him absent.
I am a registered republican and I did vote for Obama.
Maybe you can help me. For 2016, should I register as a Democrat or a republican?
I generally pick the party with the most interesting Primary.
I live in Florida and am an independent but independents cant vote in the primary so I pick a party.
I think I will pick republican again, the primary is gonna be fascinating.
10 years ago, my vote meant nothing. Today, my vote counts big time.
Lived in Maryland 10 yrs ago, Democrat country, nobody came to campaign for our votes.
Now live in Florida, battleground state and I live in the key I4 Tampa Orlando corridor. North Florida conservative, south Florida liberal. I4 corridor determines if Florida is red or blue. Everybody campaigns for my vote and visits the key I4 corridor, Obama, Rommney, Biden, Ryan, Michelle Obama, Rommneys wife.
I love democracy.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
December 5th, 2013 at 10:53:57 PM
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"President Obama acknowledged Thursday that he lived with his Kenyan uncle for a brief period in the 1980s while preparing to attend Harvard Law School, contradicting a statement more than two years ago that the White House had no record of the two ever meeting."
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/05/president-obama-acknowledges-having-lived-with-his-uncle/mz67SRGIExGAZJuOQsl1JI/story.html
Once again, our President and those who work for him have lied to us. It is a stupid one; one they should have corrected long ago. Why did they not realize their answer to the question was that he did know him and change their answer right away?
Dismiss it as nothing...it isn't much...but it is a pattern.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/05/president-obama-acknowledges-having-lived-with-his-uncle/mz67SRGIExGAZJuOQsl1JI/story.html
Once again, our President and those who work for him have lied to us. It is a stupid one; one they should have corrected long ago. Why did they not realize their answer to the question was that he did know him and change their answer right away?
Dismiss it as nothing...it isn't much...but it is a pattern.
December 5th, 2013 at 11:01:16 PM
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Quote: terapinedI am a registered republican and I did vote for Obama.
Quote: terapinedI generally pick the party with the most interesting Primary.
Quote: terapinedI live in Florida and am an independent but independents cant vote in the primary so I pick a party.
So in reality you are a "RINO" and not really even one who was in any way committed to the party. I understand your situation, but being a liberal/left leaning independent who registered as a Republican to vote in their primary does not make you a "Republican who voted for Obama" in anything but the statistics...do you think you are likely cast a ballot in the Republican primary for whoever you think the Democrat can beat and then vote for the Democrat in the next election?
December 6th, 2013 at 4:24:08 AM
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Quote: RonCSo in reality you are a "RINO" and not really even one who was in any way committed to the party. I understand your situation, but being a liberal/left leaning independent who registered as a Republican to vote in their primary does not make you a "Republican who voted for Obama" in anything but the statistics...do you think you are likely cast a ballot in the Republican primary for whoever you think the Democrat can beat and then vote for the Democrat in the next election?
I was extremely disappointed in the republican slate. It was very competitive here during the primary. The Newt Gingrich people made a huge push down here for the nomination. I was really entertained by Newt running, totally unelectable. The guy is a cad, dropped his wife like a hot rock when she got cancer. There was just 1 repub candidate I was intrigued with and was willing to vote for, John Huntsman, but he dropped out before the Florida primary. I have some conservative friends and checked with them. They were disappointed also. One told me, "I wish there was somebody that was running for president that I can support." I walked into the voting booth totally undecided. If I wanted to vote for the weakest repub candidate, I would have voted for unelectable Newt but didn't. In the end I voted Ron Paul because my conservative buddy was voting for him.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
December 6th, 2013 at 6:33:24 AM
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Quote: terapinedI was extremely disappointed in the republican slate. It was very competitive here during the primary. The Newt Gingrich people made a huge push down here for the nomination. I was really entertained by Newt running, totally unelectable. The guy is a cad, dropped his wife like a hot rock when she got cancer. There was just 1 repub candidate I was intrigued with and was willing to vote for, John Huntsman, but he dropped out before the Florida primary. I have some conservative friends and checked with them. They were disappointed also. One told me, "I wish there was somebody that was running for president that I can support." I walked into the voting booth totally undecided. If I wanted to vote for the weakest repub candidate, I would have voted for unelectable Newt but didn't. In the end I voted Ron Paul because my conservative buddy was voting for him.
I'd argue that Ron Paul was nearly as unelectable as Newt Gingrich. He is a "better citizen" based on the things Newt did, but he was on the fringe to start with and, by this election, really old.
December 6th, 2013 at 7:50:37 AM
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The guy has buyer's remorse Ron just like the rest of them. It's got to be ultra humiliating for them to watch their incompetent, silly president continually stick his foot in his mouth even though he can only read a teleprompter when giving his campaign style speeches trying to make excuses, spread blame, and save face. It is as sad a time in US history as there's ever been.
December 6th, 2013 at 8:50:42 AM
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Hey s2dbaker, check this out: List of U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions by typeQuote: s2dbakerAmerica won :)
WE WON in these states. IT'S THE LAW. (So you can stop fighting the will of the people now)
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 6th, 2013 at 9:08:07 AM
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Terapined is not welcome in RonC's party.Quote: RonCbut being a liberal/left leaning independent who registered as a Republican to vote in their primary does not make you a "Republican who voted for Obama" in anything but the statistics
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
December 6th, 2013 at 9:27:02 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerTerapined is not welcome in RonC's party.
Pro-lifers are not welcome in s2dbaker's party.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 6th, 2013 at 9:34:06 AM
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Quote: anonimussAhh..the staunchest, yet most factless supporter of the obama fiasco, back with the latest list of talking points.
ps, my hatred is for anyone gullible enough to hand control of my country to an incompetent, pathologically lying, America hating socialist.
+10
Best post in this thread. So far...
December 6th, 2013 at 11:06:33 AM
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Quote: terapined
10 years ago, my vote meant nothing. Today, my vote counts big time.
Lived in Maryland 10 yrs ago, Democrat country, nobody came to campaign for our votes.
Now live in Florida, battleground state and I live in the key I4 Tampa Orlando corridor. North Florida conservative, south Florida liberal. I4 corridor determines if Florida is red or blue. Everybody campaigns for my vote and visits the key I4 corridor, Obama, Rommney, Biden, Ryan, Michelle Obama, Rommneys wife.
I love democracy.
Confirmed liberal masquerading as a Republican. Overinflated sense of self worth and importance compared to others not to mention doesn't even know how to spell the name of the Republican candidate.
December 6th, 2013 at 1:06:01 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerTerapined is not welcome in RonC's party.
WTF are you talking about? He's welcome if he really wants to be part of the party. He joins whatever party that he wants to for the primary. He is doing nothing wrong, but he identifies himself as ain independent and not with either party...so it is not exactly the same as a long-time Republican voting for Obama.
Is there some reason you assume I don't want him in my party? Heck, we disagree politically and all, but he likes the Terps. That means there is at least one thing we agree on!!
December 6th, 2013 at 4:51:57 PM
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Quote: anonimussConfirmed liberal masquerading as a Republican..
Yea, I have to agree. :-) I never say I am a republican and am definitely not, but I am a registered republican voter.
I consider myself independent but I do lean left. I did surprise B9 by agreeing not to ban trans fats and no 15.00 min wage.
I generally try to look at issues independently.
Quote: anonimuss
Overinflated sense of self worth and importance compared to others not to mention doesn't even know how to spell the name of the Republican candidate.
My vote is more important then others due to the electoral college. Believe me, I think this whole battleground state stuff sucks. President should be elected by the popular vote. But I do live in a battleground state where recent history has had a presidential election determined by a mere 537 votes.
Yup, my spelling sucks. You are absolutely right.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
December 7th, 2013 at 9:31:29 PM
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Quote: terapinedPresident should be elected by the popular vote.
I think the founders set up a pretty good system and that tinkering with it would take away from the minorities we try to protect from mistreatment. We'd probably have a better Senate (functionally) if it was still chosen as the Constitution originally was written.
December 7th, 2013 at 9:55:25 PM
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+10Quote: RonCWe'd probably have a better Senate (functionally) if it was still chosen as the Constitution originally was written.
The direct election of US senators was a terrible move. Most people don't even know that one of the reasons why the framers did not want the people electing US senators is because they wanted state governments to have their say in Congress. (Most people don't know that state legislatures had originally appointed each state's senators) I would love to go back to that.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 8th, 2013 at 3:00:23 AM
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"The California health exchange says it's been giving the names of tens of thousands of consumers to insurance agents without their permission or knowledge in an effort to hit deadlines for coverage."
http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Calif-health-exchange-shares-data-without-consent-5044791.php?cmpid=hpbn
Yet another impact of this piece of crap law--implementation has been so badly bungled that some bureaucrat(s) in on of the state exchanges thought it necessary to release information that should not have been released.
This law is poorly written, is being executed by amateurs, and is going to cost all of us much more than we were told...when the heck will the people who wanted healthcare reform take their heads out of the sand?
Not today, I predict...
http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Calif-health-exchange-shares-data-without-consent-5044791.php?cmpid=hpbn
Yet another impact of this piece of crap law--implementation has been so badly bungled that some bureaucrat(s) in on of the state exchanges thought it necessary to release information that should not have been released.
This law is poorly written, is being executed by amateurs, and is going to cost all of us much more than we were told...when the heck will the people who wanted healthcare reform take their heads out of the sand?
Not today, I predict...
December 8th, 2013 at 5:53:01 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9th+10
The direct election of US senators was a terrible move. Most people don't even know that one of the reasons why the framers did not want the people electing US senators is because they wanted state governments to have their say in Congress. (Most people don't know that state legislatures had originally appointed each state's senators) I would love to go back to that.
+1 here. The system was changed due to corruption, which should have otherwise been fixed. If we had the intended system there would not be near the mandates on states we have today.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
December 8th, 2013 at 7:37:48 AM
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Quote: AZDuffman+1 here. The system was changed due to corruption, which should have otherwise been fixed. If we had the intended system there would not be near the mandates on states we have today.
I like the system of popular state vote determines who is elected senator.
What exactly is the big disadvantage?
What are "mandates on states we have today" ?
Why would the mandates be gone with a legislature appointed senator rather then a state popular vote senator?
What is the big advantage of the state legislature appointing a senator?
I generally don't trust politicians, in this case I should trust politicians?
Just trying to gather information so I can develop an informed opinion on this subject.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
December 8th, 2013 at 9:24:31 AM
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Quote: terapinedI like the system of popular state vote determines who is elected senator.
What exactly is the big disadvantage?
The disadvantage is that the House of Representatives was supposed to be about the needs of the people and the Senate the needs of the States. When you have Senators elected directly by the people they no longer look out for their state but instead also the people.
Quote:What are "mandates on states we have today" ?
There are hundreds to thousands. From emission testing of cars to how education is run. But lets use the most current example, Obamacare. Obamacare requires states set up "exchanges" and loads more people onto Medicaid. This will be an expense to the states. Sure there are some initial subsidies, but long term those will go away. Now if we had a Senate that was looking out for the States they would be more likely to say "NO WAY" because the state legislatures would boot them out.
A simpler way to put it is the Senate would be the more rational body it was intended to be and not going with what is popular at the moment.
Quote:Why would the mandates be gone with a legislature appointed senator rather then a state popular vote senator?
See above, because if Congress mandated things that would break the state then the State Governors and Legislatures would boot them.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
December 8th, 2013 at 9:26:17 AM
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Quote: RonC
This law is poorly written, is being executed by amateurs, and is going to cost all of us much more than we were told...when the heck will the people who wanted healthcare reform take their heads out of the sand?
..
Certainly not on NPR. They still think it's the best thing
since buttered toast. They gloss over the 'glitches' as
minor and say they will disappear in no time. They
have their heads up their butts, not in the sand.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
December 8th, 2013 at 7:23:50 PM
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The latest line of white house bs/spin is hilarious. "We didn't lie when we said if you like your doctor you can keep him. If you can find a plan that includes him you can enroll in it and keep him". And the liberals are sitting there, nodding their heads, saying to themselves, "He's 100% right. He didn't lie".
December 8th, 2013 at 7:32:58 PM
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Ezekiel Emanuel: "If You Want To Pay More For Your Doctor, You Can Do That"
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 8th, 2013 at 7:59:35 PM
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obama understands something very important to every pathological liar: if you keep repeating a lie over and over and over again with a straight face stupid people will eventually believe anything.
December 8th, 2013 at 10:23:35 PM
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Quote: Beethoven9thEzekiel Emanuel: "If You Want To Pay More For Your Doctor, You Can Do That"
They will say or do anything to try and wiggle out of their lie. I heard the President. He was loud and clear. You can keep your plan and you can keep your doctor were his selling points to those who were worried about those two issues. There were no qualifiers. You and I didn't make those statements. The President did.
It doesn't matter who you are or what party you belong to--this President's behavior on this matter is repulsive. For Chris Matthews to toss him softball questions and the rest of the media to not aggressively pursue answers is not good journalism. To allow ANY politician who blatantly lies to have a free pass is crazy.
...and one of his minions will say "We won!!"...yes, you did. America lost. Not because we have healthcare reform but because we have a poorly written and even more poorly implemented Obamacare bill that is a fiasco. It will take years to clean up the mess. The stupid thing is the President is busy fundraising--he should be busy fixing this. Yes, "hands on" involvement is necessary. Leadership is required. Some folks need fired.
December 8th, 2013 at 10:25:21 PM
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Quote: anonimussThe latest line of white house bs/spin is hilarious. "We didn't lie when we said if you like your doctor you can keep him. If you can find a plan that includes him you can enroll in it and keep him". And the liberals are sitting there, nodding their heads, saying to themselves, "He's 100% right. He didn't lie".
They hold him less accountable than they have the last two Presidents for things that have been called "lies"...why are they covering for him? Why don't they demand that he do his job and work to clean up his mess?
December 8th, 2013 at 10:42:14 PM
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"The good news, if you want to call it that, is that roughly 1.6 million Americans have enrolled in ObamaCare so far.
The not-so-good news is that 1.46 million of them actually signed up for Medicaid. If that trend continues, it could bankrupt both federal and state governments."
http://nypost.com/2013/12/07/the-medicaid-time-bomb/
This program is going to cost trillions more than he told us it would. Another lie.
The not-so-good news is that 1.46 million of them actually signed up for Medicaid. If that trend continues, it could bankrupt both federal and state governments."
http://nypost.com/2013/12/07/the-medicaid-time-bomb/
This program is going to cost trillions more than he told us it would. Another lie.
December 8th, 2013 at 11:59:37 PM
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+1Quote: AZDuffmanIf we had the intended system there would not be near the mandates on states we have today.
I remember hearing Alan Keyes (a brilliant man) talking about this years ago. And he was dead right. The framers wanted the House to be held accountable to the people and the Senate—which was the American version of the House of Lords—to be held accountable to the states. As it stands, the states have pretty much no say in Congress.
Also, if state legislatures chose senators, the Senate would be less susceptible to media bias, since the biased media has the most influence on state and national elections. (Democrats currently control only 17 state legislatures, so Republicans would almost have a filibuster-proof majority today)
Furthermore, if we went back to what the framers had intended, the two senators of each state could actually work together to get things done. The fact that there are many states with 1 Democrat senator & 1 Republican senator shows how s2pid the voters are. I mean, why the hell would you vote for 2 people who will do everything they can to make sure that the other gets nothing done?? It boggles the mind.
If Thomas Jefferson came back to life and saw what the Senate has turned into, he'd immediately die again.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 9th, 2013 at 12:35:51 AM
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http://watchdogwire.com/nevada/2013/12/06/harry-reids-inadvertent-gift-to-obamacare-foes/
THIS PRETTY MUCH SAYS IT ALL
it does say that obamacare is ending up being a ax on the middleclass
just as was suspected and warned about
the people that are going to be hurt the most....are the people that voted for obama
THIS PRETTY MUCH SAYS IT ALL
it does say that obamacare is ending up being a ax on the middleclass
just as was suspected and warned about
the people that are going to be hurt the most....are the people that voted for obama
December 9th, 2013 at 3:15:34 AM
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Quote: anonimussThe latest line of white house bs/spin is hilarious. "We didn't lie when we said if you like your doctor you can keep him. If you can find a plan that includes him you can enroll in it and keep him". And the liberals are sitting there, nodding their heads, saying to themselves, "He's 100% right. He didn't lie".
Ever see "All in the Family" where a family of Puerto Ricans wants to move next door and Archie and Jefferson join forces to keep them out? Sounds like this WH!
Mike: You lied and told them the house had termites
Archie: No I didn't
Mike: I heard you say it
Archie: I said I would not buy a house chock full of termites
Mike: And that isn't a lie?
Archie: No, I would never buy a house chock full of termites!
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
December 9th, 2013 at 3:46:08 AM
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We have seen how many consumers will pay more (especially factoring in deductibles, which you WILL pay when you have a medical issue), we have been told we could keep our doctor and our insurance but found out that were lied to, and now there is even more news of doctors not being paid enough under some of the new exchanges to continue:
“We need some recognition that we’re doing a service to the community. But we can’t do it for free. And we can’t do it at a loss. No other business would do that,” he said."
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2540272#.UqLPd42Zl8I.twitter
When reimbursements get so low that doctors can't make any money, what do you expect them to do? These folks go to school forever to learn medicine, work initially under generally stressful conditions, pile up a load of debt, have huge expenses when running a practice, and now we expect them to accept $24 in payment for a patient's visit? $160 for a tonsillectomy? It won't work. They have to make enough money to pay their bills and they deserve enough money to have a higher standard of living than most folks.
I'm all for mid-levels (nurse practitioners and physician's assistants) helping and working at a bit lower rate than the doctors (but the clinic they work in still has tons of expenses, so it can't be too low) but the mid-levels I know all have patients who need to see the doctor. There are illnesses and conditions that fall outside of the scope of the mid-level education and experience and only an arrogant mid-level would assume they could handle the issue alone. Doctors are important and this law treats them like crap.
“We need some recognition that we’re doing a service to the community. But we can’t do it for free. And we can’t do it at a loss. No other business would do that,” he said."
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2540272#.UqLPd42Zl8I.twitter
When reimbursements get so low that doctors can't make any money, what do you expect them to do? These folks go to school forever to learn medicine, work initially under generally stressful conditions, pile up a load of debt, have huge expenses when running a practice, and now we expect them to accept $24 in payment for a patient's visit? $160 for a tonsillectomy? It won't work. They have to make enough money to pay their bills and they deserve enough money to have a higher standard of living than most folks.
I'm all for mid-levels (nurse practitioners and physician's assistants) helping and working at a bit lower rate than the doctors (but the clinic they work in still has tons of expenses, so it can't be too low) but the mid-levels I know all have patients who need to see the doctor. There are illnesses and conditions that fall outside of the scope of the mid-level education and experience and only an arrogant mid-level would assume they could handle the issue alone. Doctors are important and this law treats them like crap.
December 9th, 2013 at 3:56:04 AM
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Chris Matthews could no easier ask Obama a tough question than he could try to eliminate that tingle going down his leg that he gets from the mere mention of the pres. This leader will easily go down as the biggest lying boob ever to sit in the oval office, and with that, the unique distinction as being the biggest hoax ever perpetuated upon the American people. Can't wait for the movie to come out on this guy.
December 9th, 2013 at 5:52:09 AM
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Especially when other presidents have been impeached or forced to leave office for far less significant lies. Even in recent memory.Quote: RonCIt doesn't matter who you are or what party you belong to--this President's behavior on this matter is repulsive. For Chris Matthews to toss him softball questions and the rest of the media to not aggressively pursue answers is not good journalism. To allow ANY politician who blatantly lies to have a free pass is crazy.
