Obamacare
Quote: rob45Has Obamacare helped me?
Is it still too soon to tell? After all, we had to first pass it before we could find out what was in it, and it may take quite a while to figure out what is truly in such a large bill, especially since the overwhelming majority of our fearless leaders will not be living by the same law as us mere common folk.
December is when I knew I would get more concrete information regarding this circus labeled as "affordable".
Beginning January 1, 2014:
1. My deductible increases exactly 44%.
2. Tier 3 (brand-name non-formulary) drugs are removed from coverage. Even if a generic does not exist, I'm still required to pay full price.
3. The premium for family members doubles (a 100% increase). Each family member over three will cost an additional $1800 annually.
4. Were I to gross $150K or more annually, I would be responsible for 100% of coverage, including family members (IOW, no contribution by the company).
5. For those who smoke, the "tobacco premium" doubles (100% increase).
6. The company contribution decreases from 50% to 23%.
7. All individuals enrolled in the plan are "encouraged" to have one routine preventative office visit per year. This was formerly known as an annual physical/checkup. While not required, the penalty for not doing so is an additional $25 per month.
8. I knew there had to be a reason for the "encouragement" of the annual office visit. Individuals identified with, or suspect to, chronic, high-risk conditions must enroll and actively engage in one of the "disease management programs".
If you are a tobacco user, you have to take a cessation course.
If you are deemed overweight during the physical, no more private discussion with your doctor about the most effective weight-loss method for you; now you get to take a one-size-fits-all program irregardless of whether it works for you.
Are you diabetic, pre-diabetic, or just have higher blood sugar the day your blood was taken? You need to take a course on proper diet.
And much more.
If you have been identified as a high-risk individual and do not participate in one of the management programs, the penalty is an additional $25 per month.
9. The maximum out-of-pocket has an increase of 81.4% for those with employee-only coverage. Maximum out-of-pocket for families increases by 69.3%.
10. Finally, some good news. The IRS has, out of the goodness of their hearts, decided to increase my maximum annual tax deductible HSA contribution by fifty dollars ($50.00)!
Yippeee! That oughta pay for the above increases!
You have addressed the "additional costs" that many here choose to ignore in their blind support of Obamacare and President Obama. They focus only on their "cheaper premiums" as if that is the only thing that matters and ignore all of the other issues.
Quote: boymimboThe logic here is unfathomable.
The message from the thinktank on this forum: don't go to college -- you'll be indoctrinated as a liberal, and we can't have that. Instead, take a trade, because America needs tradespeople. I guess we should just stop people from going to college to prevent that from happening, and you'll turn the nation into a bunch of semi-literate tradespeople with no sense of innovation. Good move.
By this logic your message is, "go to college no matter what degree you take because a degree in anything is better than doing manual work."
In my lifetime I have seen a grand total of one job where you had to have a degree, any degree, to get considered and all that mattered was you had a degree. That job was teaching English in Japan. All that mattered was that you spoke it as a first language and they preferred that be from the USA, Canada, or Oz for accent reasons. The degree was to get your visa.
And yes, many here including myself say learn a trade. You seem to be taking the attitude tradespeople are somehow dumb or beneath you because they did not go to college. Maybe the attitude that "well, if you can't cut it in college you can learn a trade!"
Rubbish. Most trade take years to learn and many if not most have an aptitude test you must pass to get to be an apprentice or move to journeyman. I met a plumber who said he needed to take calculus to get his top certification. They do not give haz-mat certs to just any dumb trucker, which is why the ones who get it make nice cash. I could go on and on here, but the point is even with your degree you qualify for nearly none of these jobs. But choose one and by your mid-20s you can be doing well enough and by 30 very well.
Now lets look at the average kid we just shove into college because "they do not know what they want to do." They learn some good things, but they don't get many skills. Where do they end up in the end? Loads of debt and a leg up on lower-level white collar jobs. I have seen it happen. I have a cousin who was considering "Communications" as a major. My mother asked what I thought. I said, "Do you want my real opinion or do you want me to say something nice you can tell his mother?"
What us "take a trade" people are saying is just having the degree is not the answer. I have been stuck answering phones next to others doing the same with an MBA! Meanwhile if we knew HVAC work we could have been making $60K a year.
When over 1/3 of people drop out the first year and barely 50% graduate at all we are clearly sending too many kids not to college but rather to 13th grade.
You can't count on that if you're in New Jersey, also one of the two states that tax IRA's and 401(k)'s both ways, on money going in as well as coming out:Quote: rob4510. Finally, some good news. The IRS has, out of the goodness of their hearts, decided to increase my maximum annual tax deductible HSA contribution by fifty dollars ($50.00)! Yippeee! That oughta pay for the above increases!
TRENTON, N.J. -- New Jersey is living up to a reputation for overtaxing its residents by grabbing a share of money set aside in increasingly popular health savings accounts. The Garden State is one of only three states that tax worker contributions into health savings accounts, which are exempt from federal taxes. HSAs nationwide have racked up $18.1 billion in assets since being launched in 2004, according to Devenir, an investment service firm.
Many companies currently are conducting annual health insurance enrollment periods, but New Jersey's tax bite is giving pause to some potential HSA contributors, said Ryan Malone, a certified public accountant and partner at Flackman Goodman & Potter, Ridgewood. "That's something I have no interest in putting money into because I feel like I'm taxed enough already living in New Jersey," said Donna McEvoy, a retired school administrator from East Brunswick.
Malone said the money is taxed by New Jersey at between 6 percent and nearly 9 percent, depending on gross income. California and Alabama are the other states that tax the accounts. usatoday
Quote: rob45Has Obamacare helped me?
Is it still too soon to tell? After all, we had to first pass it before we could find out what was in it, and it may take quite a while to figure out what is truly in such a large bill, especially since the overwhelming majority of our fearless leaders will not be living by the same law as us mere common folk.
December is when I knew I would get more concrete information regarding this circus labeled as "affordable".
Beginning January 1, 2014:
1. My deductible increases exactly 44%.
2. Tier 3 (brand-name non-formulary) drugs are removed from coverage. Even if a generic does not exist, I'm still required to pay full price.
3. The premium for family members doubles (a 100% increase). Each family member over three will cost an additional $1800 annually.
4. Were I to gross $150K or more annually, I would be responsible for 100% of coverage, including family members (IOW, no contribution by the company).
5. For those who smoke, the "tobacco premium" doubles (100% increase).
6. The company contribution decreases from 50% to 23%.
7. All individuals enrolled in the plan are "encouraged" to have one routine preventative office visit per year. This was formerly known as an annual physical/checkup. While not required, the penalty for not doing so is an additional $25 per month.
8. I knew there had to be a reason for the "encouragement" of the annual office visit. Individuals identified with, or suspect to, chronic, high-risk conditions must enroll and actively engage in one of the "disease management programs".
If you are a tobacco user, you have to take a cessation course.
If you are deemed overweight during the physical, no more private discussion with your doctor about the most effective weight-loss method for you; now you get to take a one-size-fits-all program irregardless of whether it works for you.
Are you diabetic, pre-diabetic, or just have higher blood sugar the day your blood was taken? You need to take a course on proper diet.
And much more.
If you have been identified as a high-risk individual and do not participate in one of the management programs, the penalty is an additional $25 per month.
9. The maximum out-of-pocket has an increase of 81.4% for those with employee-only coverage. Maximum out-of-pocket for families increases by 69.3%.
10. Finally, some good news. The IRS has, out of the goodness of their hearts, decided to increase my maximum annual tax deductible HSA contribution by fifty dollars ($50.00)!
Yippeee! That oughta pay for the above increases!
rob45, did you check to see if you could do better by opting out of the above company supplied policy and getting a better policy on your own thru the exchange?
Quote: AZDuffmanBy this logic your message is, "go to college no matter what degree you take because a degree in anything is better than doing manual work."
Some people won't go to college because (1) their marks suck (2) they'd rather learn a trade, and I have no problem with that. My problem is telling people not to go to college because [heaven forbid] you will be indoctrinated as a liberal. To that, I call bullshit.
Many, many people will go to college not sure of what to do with one's life. Big whoop. Do you remember how old you were when you graduated high school? 17 - 18? You're not even old enough to drink, and barely old enough to drive, and you're expected to know what to do with the rest of your life, having perhaps 2-3 years of independent thought (apart from what your parents thought about you). Plenty of people learn a trade and then go back to college or do something completely different. Heck, my degrees are in Astronomy and Physics and I work with financial applications. Plenty of people graduate university and end up doing something completely different with their degree.
Quote:Rubbish. Most trade take years to learn and many if not most have an aptitude test you must pass to get to be an apprentice or move to journeyman. I met a plumber who said he needed to take calculus to get his top certification. They do not give haz-mat certs to just any dumb trucker, which is why the ones who get it make nice cash. I could go on and on here, but the point is even with your degree you qualify for nearly none of these jobs. But choose one and by your mid-20s you can be doing well enough and by 30 very well......
I don't dispute this.
Quote:What us "take a trade" people are saying is just having the degree is not the answer. I have been stuck answering phones next to others doing the same with an MBA! Meanwhile if we knew HVAC work we could have been making $60K a year.
No, what you have been saying is "don't go to college because you will become a liberal'. There are plenty of tradepeople who are liberal, and plenty of college graduates (many of whom work for FoxNews) who are conservative.
Quote: boymimbo
Many, many people will go to college not sure of what to do with one's life. Big whoop. Do you remember how old you were when you graduated high school? 17 - 18? You're not even old enough to drink, and barely old enough to drive, and you're expected to know what to do with the rest of your life, having perhaps 2-3 years of independent thought (apart from what your parents thought about you). Plenty of people learn a trade and then go back to college or do something completely different. Heck, my degrees are in Astronomy and Physics and I work with financial applications. Plenty of people graduate university and end up doing something completely different with their degree.
And this is where I have a problem. if "you do not know what you want to do" then you do NOT belong in college. You should take a year and work, join the army, volunteer overseas, I mean anything. Otherwise you are spending $20K to figure where you want to be in life. This is a big part of the 30% or so drop out rate after one year of college and near 50% over the 4 years.
As to me, I have a degree but will soon be taking some welding courses to add to my marketability in both pipelines and just when the normal downs happen. Nothing wrong with education, but unless you are paying upfront with your own cash and instead are asking for grants and loans then you should have a plan.
Quote:No, what you have been saying is "don't go to college because you will become a liberal'. There are plenty of tradepeople who are liberal, and plenty of college graduates (many of whom work for FoxNews) who are conservative.
No, what we are saying is college is supposed to be about learning and not indoctrination. The $500 you spend on a history class should get you lessons in history and not a three times weekly dose of how evil white males enslaved the world because they were bored.
+1Quote: AZDuffmanif "you do not know what you want to do" then you do NOT belong in college. You should take a year and work, join the army, volunteer overseas, I mean anything
+1Quote: AZDuffmanNo, what we are saying is college is supposed to be about learning and not indoctrination. The $500 you spend on a history class should get you lessons in history and not a three times weekly dose of how evil white males enslaved the world because they were bored.
Quote: AZDuffmanAnd this is where I have a problem. if "you do not know what you want to do" then you do NOT belong in college. You should take a year and work, join the army, volunteer overseas, I mean anything. Otherwise you are spending $20K to figure where you want to be in life. This is a big part of the 30% or so drop out rate after one year of college and near 50% over the 4 years.
As to me, I have a degree but will soon be taking some welding courses to add to my marketability in both pipelines and just when the normal downs happen. Nothing wrong with education, but unless you are paying upfront with your own cash and instead are asking for grants and loans then you should have a plan.
No, what we are saying is college is supposed to be about learning and not indoctrination. The $500 you spend on a history class should get you lessons in history and not a three times weekly dose of how evil white males enslaved the world because they were bored.
You ever thought the problem is the 20k+ figure and not the kid not knowing what to do. Also what has happened to just wanting to learn for learnings sake. Also in college I took many history classes and none of them were this thrice weekly dose of the evils of the white man. They portrayed history accurately and in some of those cases the white man really messed things up I mean should we just avoid teaching the atrocities some group committed because you know some feelings might be hurt.
Geez, AZ, for a libertarian, you telling people what they should do with their lives sounds very communist to me. There is nothing wrong with taking a general year in arts or sciences before figuring out exactly what degree in which profession you want. I will agree with you that if you don't know what you want to do by the end of that year, you should take a year off.
The dropout rate isn't ONLY because people don't know what they want to do. The dropout rate is so high because (1) it's a completely different experience that's difficult to adjust to (2) It's much harder in many cases than high school and they fail (3) they fail because the study methods that they used in high school doesn't apply to college (4) it's unaffordable
What history class am I taking where it is telling me how evil white males are for enslaving the world? And isn't that partially true?
Quote: steeldcorob45, did you check to see if you could do better by opting out of the above company supplied policy and getting a better policy on your own thru the exchange?
Absolutely.
I spent nearly three weeks trying to get an estimate from the exchange, but was finally able to get through.
As horrible as the increases in my employee plan seem, the exchange is much worse for me.
I'll show overall comparisons below; please keep in mind that all numbers and percentages below are in comparison to what I have now (2013).
Premiums
Employee plan increases premium additional 15%.
Exchange increases premium by additional 285%. That's not a typo; that's two hundred-and-eighty-five percent.
Deductibles
Employee plan increases additional forty-four percent (44%).
Exchange increases additional three hundred-and-sixty percent (360%).
Coinsurance (after deductible)
Employee plan 20%
Exchange 40%
Maximum annual out-of-pocket
Same for both employee plan and exchange, which is 81.4% above my 2013 plan.
Prescriptions
Employee plan price remains unchanged at $20, but has been declassified to generic only. This normally would not bother me, as I'm one of those hard-headed types who only goes to the doctor for my annual physical; however, I know several individuals who have specialized prescriptions for which there is no generic equivalent, in which case full price of the prescription would need to be paid by me.
For the exchange plan, any prescription is covered, but the full deductible must first be satisfied, after which 20% coinsurance becomes effective.
That's the best I can do, unless I pay the "tax" for not having insurance at all, in addition to running the risk of needing it when I don't have it.
By the way, I forgot to mention earlier that I still hold an insurance license in my state, although I haven't practiced in 15 years. CE (continuing education) is much easier and considerably more economical than starting again from the beginning should I ever wish to take it back up. Considering today's environment, that is what mathematicians would define as "highly improbable".
Quote: rob45
Exchange increases premium by additional 285%.
Exchange increases additional three hundred-and-sixty percent (360%).
When I read your first coverage I thought it was
thru an exchange and I thought hey, that's not
bad for Obamacare. Now that I read the real
exchange rates, it makes me laugh. Not a single
person I know gets a better deal there, they
all get robbed. Except the Libs here of course,
they all see amazing savings thru their exchanges.
LOL! Michelle says it's a Christmas gift. I didn't
know barf was a gift.
At this point, even the low information voters on this website, would secretly tell you that they believe that Obamacare is one hell of a blunder and that they believe Obama is probably one of the worst presidents ever. Even S2baker would probably admit it.
Hopefully the low information voters will pay more attention to the candidate's qualifications and platform before they vote next time.
Quote: KeyserEvenBob,
At this point, even the low information voters on this website, would secretly tell you that they believe that Obamacare is one hell of a blunder .
Wait till people start losing their coverage where
they work next year. They'll go from $50 a week
being deducted from their checks, to having to
pay $450 a month with a $5K deductible and a
doctor they've never met and don't want. That's
when the real fun begins.
Quote: EvenbobWait till people start losing their coverage where
they work next year. They'll go from $50 a week
being deducted from their checks, to having to
pay $450 a month with a $5K deductible and a
doctor they've never met and don't want. That's
when the real fun begins.
Evenbob,
You know you really make a great point there. The thing is, many low information voters (democrats) have really no idea as to how much they currently pay for insurance . Many really don't even know how much they make! Often, all they really grasp and understand is the amount of money that they take home each week/month. If they get health insurance through work, they simply believe that it's free. You're correct in that many of them will be shocked when it happens. Unfortunately they will naively blame their employer, rather than the blundering president and his administration.
-Keyser
Quote: KeyserEvenbob,
You know you really make a great point there. The thing is, many low information voters (democrats) have really no idea as to how much they currently pay for insurance . Many really don't even know how much they make! Often, all they really grasp and understand is the amount of money that they take home each week/month. If they get health insurance through work, they simply believe that it's free. You're correct in that many of them will be shocked when it happens. Unfortunately they will naively blame their employer, rather than the blundering president and his administration.
-Keyser
Wow, that's quite an intelligent and completely true observation you have there. Democrats also believe that pigs fly and that money grows on trees.
Quote: KeyserEvenBob,
At this point, even the low information voters on this website, would secretly tell you that they believe that Obamacare is one hell of a blunder and that they believe Obama is probably one of the worst presidents ever. Even S2baker would probably admit it.
Hopefully the low information voters will pay more attention to the candidate's qualifications and platform before they vote next time.
How are you labelling Obama one of the worst presidents ever. Bush Jr was clearly a bigger failure as was Carter, Grant, Andrew Johnson, and a shit ton of others. In fact Obama is probably going to be regarded as one of the most successful presidents in terms of foreign policy. I will admit that ACA could have been a lot better had Obama just said screw trying to bargain with Republicans but hardly the largest screw up and the problems could seriously be mitigated if Republicans would stop being obstructionist. I mean Medicare part D under Bush was a failure and the Democrats didn't like it but rather than let it continue to fail they tried to fix it. Also you seriously lack understanding of history if you expected ACA to roll out perfectly from the start all programs have their problems in the beginning before they get fixed and are regarded as great. SS horrible roll out, Medicare horrible roll out and the list goes on.
Quote: TwirdmanHow are you labelling Obama one of the worst presidents ever. Bush Jr was clearly a bigger failure.
It's Bush's fault, thanks for pointing that
out. I keep forgetting. LOL
Quote: EvenBobIt's Bush's fault, thanks for pointing that
out. I keep forgetting. LOL
No someone said Obama was one of the worst presidents ever I then gave a list of presidents almost universally agreed to be worse. Bush Jr happened to be the most recent and first to come to mind so put him first. Also put Carter, Grant, and Andrew Johnson. The failures of ACA have really nothing to do with Bush but how would I say Obama isn't the worst president if I'm not allowed to point out presidents who are worse. I mean you agree Bush was a worse president right because almost everyone else does.
Quote: TwirdmanI mean you agree Bush was a worse president .
I don't remember Bush being Liar of the Year,
did I miss that? He believed there we're WMD's
in Iraq, but if you recall, so did every member
of congress. We SOLD them to the Iraqi's.
Surely you're not trying to defend Obama. What foreign policy? No, he's rather widely regarded as one of the worst presidents ever. Especially when it comes to transparency and civil rights.
We need to prescribe you a dose of Fox News and Rush.
Quote: EvenBobI don't remember Bush being Liar of the Year,
did I miss that? He believed there we're WMD's
in Iraq, but if you recall, so did every member
of congress. We SOLD them to the Iraqi's.
Thats some impressive spin you got there. Bush left office before politifact started giving the lie of the year. How important was Jesus really I mean he never won times person of the year award. What do you mean it didn't exist back then. But you want what would have won him lie of the year how about the continual linking of Iraq and Osama bin Laden when anyone who knew anything knew the two wouldn't be caught dead together. You want horrible attrocities allowed by Bush how about we go with his program of torture. So yeah two wars a tanked economy and torture all make Bush a horrible president.
Quote: EvenbobHe believed there we're WMD's
in Iraq, but if you recall, so did every member
of congress. We SOLD them to the Iraqi's.
Actually Iraq did have WMD's. We knew that they did because we basically had the receipt. Back during Iran/Iraq war, we helped them develop WMD's via sharing technology and equipment. It was a covert program. During the US wars with Iraq, many of the weapons were funneled to Syria. This is one of the reasons that we discretely dispatched troops to Jordon back on or around June 22, 2013. I read that we had sent 900 troops, however I wouldn't be surprised to find out the real number is closer to 5000.
"On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[29]
The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[30]
Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:
U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.[31]" -Wiki
At the time, winning the war with Iran was more important. One of the things that I admire President Bush Jr. for is never disclosing the source of the WMDs, providing evidence of their existience, in order to protect his reputation. He could have easily thrown his predecessors under the bus in, but he never did. He was a real president.
-Keyser
God knows how many other lies he'll tell, it
seems that's all he knows how to do. But because
it's Bush's fault, the history books won't notice
our first half black president was such a pitiful
failure.
I wonder, after three more years do you think that Obama will actually leave office? Perhaps this power crazed administration and the left will try to find a way to keep their abusive power and their czars in place.
Quote: TwirdmanHow are you labelling Obama one of the worst presidents ever. Bush Jr was clearly a bigger failure as was Carter, Grant, Andrew Johnson, and a shit ton of others. In fact Obama is probably going to be regarded as one of the most successful presidents in terms of foreign policy. I will admit that ACA could have been a lot better had Obama just said screw trying to bargain with Republicans but hardly the largest screw up and the problems could seriously be mitigated if Republicans would stop being obstructionist. I mean Medicare part D under Bush was a failure and the Democrats didn't like it but rather than let it continue to fail they tried to fix it. Also you seriously lack understanding of history if you expected ACA to roll out perfectly from the start all programs have their problems in the beginning before they get fixed and are regarded as great. SS horrible roll out, Medicare horrible roll out and the list goes on.
Another liberal residing in obamaland. The middle east is in flames, Al Qaeda is growing geometrically, half the middle east is engaged in civil wars and the other half is riddled with sectarian violence, Christians are being slaughtered on a daily basis in an undisguised muslim theological cleansing, barack hussein obama stuck a knife in Israels back (the only country over there that doesn't consider killing all non muslims a national past time) and Iran will have nukes shortly. Only to obama and the last remaining obama voters who haven't woke up yet is that "one of the most successful presidents in terms of foreign policy".
Quote: EvenBobI don't remember Bush being Liar of the Year,
did I miss that? He believed there we're WMD's
in Iraq, but if you recall, so did every member
of congress. We SOLD them to the Iraqi's.
obama is clearly in front in the running for liar of the year in 2014 as well as having cinched 2013.
Perhaps there was an earthquake, the President would have the power to decide how much food people could buy, power over civil transport, as well as control over the military.
Under Executive Order 13603, Barack Obama can also stay in office as President of the United States if an emergency occurs. If an emergency occurs and Obama declares Martial Law, then he can stay in office as long as he wishes.
Under Martial Law no election is needed. Obama would have control over the military and every law in the country. "-Source is http://micheletravis.hubpages.com/hub/Can-Obama-Still-Be-The-President-In-2016
I wouldn't be surprise if this power mad administration tried to remain in power.
Quote: KeyserEvenBob,
I wonder, after three more years do you think that Obama will actually leave office? .
I really believe Obama hates being there. He's awful
at it, he got elected and nobody told him things
were expected of him. His goal was getting elected,
he delegates everything else to underlings so he can
shoot hoops, bowl and play golf. That's very close to
the truth, according to insiders.
Quote: EvenBobI really believe Obama hates being there. He's awful
at it, he got elected and nobody told him things
were expected of him. His goal was getting elected,
he delegates everything else to underlings so he can
shoot hoops, bowl and play golf. That's very close to
the truth, according to insiders.
He's gotten pretty competent at expensive vacations.
Quote: anonimussHe's gotten pretty competent at expensive vacations.
Remember how libs reacted to W's vacations? Can't stand those effing hypocrites.
Quote: Keyser"It is possible for Obama to stay in office, because he signed executive orders and has been using them more then any other President in history. One of those executive orders is EO 13603, which he signed on March 16,2012. Executive Order 13603 is the National Defense Preparedness. it gives the President power over many things in case of an emergency.
Perhaps there was an earthquake, the President would have the power to decide how much food people could buy, power over civil transport, as well as control over the military.
Under Executive Order 13603, Barack Obama can also stay in office as President of the United States if an emergency occurs. If an emergency occurs and Obama declares Martial Law, then he can stay in office as long as he wishes.
Under Martial Law no election is needed. Obama would have control over the military and every law in the country. "-Source is http://micheletravis.hubpages.com/hub/Can-Obama-Still-Be-The-President-In-2016
I wouldn't be surprise if this power mad administration tried to remain in power.
I've read the order, and I call bullshit. There is nothing in the order that states that he gets to remain in power.
Read the order here and tell me, in your own words, please, how he remains president during martial law with this order.
Polls shows that the extremely conservative and the extremely liberal are just about equally likely to believe conspiracies by the way. Of course, if there is no political bend to it, they believe it equally (aliens visiting earth, bigfoot, faked moon landings), but if it's political, then you see the lopsidedness skewed to one side.
There will be an election in 2016, and someone will win, and democracy in the USA will continue to exist.
So for once, the conspiracy nuts may actually be onto something.
Quote: boymimboAlot of Americans felt the same when the Patriot Act was passed.
That's why Obama promised to get rid of it.
Oh, wait. He'll do that once he closes Gitmo.
Shucks, another lie from the Liar in Chief.
Quote: EvenBobThat's why Obama promised to get rid of it.
Oh, wait. He'll do that once he closes Gitmo.
Shucks, another lie from the Liar in Chief.
What happened with obama is he ran his mouth just tossing the bs his party wanted to hear then when he actually got elected he found out how the world really worked. And we found out just how clueless, inept and unable to deal with it he is.
in his life except run for things. We now find out
he wrote none of his book, Nightmares of my
Father, Bill Ayers wrote all of it. Ayers himself
has admitted it and so has Michelle. She says
poor Barry just couldn't get into it. That's why we've
never seen his college grades, he just couldn't
get into that either.
Quote: Beethoven9thRemember how libs reacted to W's vacations? Can't stand those effing hypocrites.
Yeah cause its equal oh wait W took roughly 4 days as many vacation days http://seancolarossi.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/obama-vs-bush-on-vacation-days/ lets just call it even though right. The problem wasn't W took vacations its that he took vastly more than basically any other president.
Quote: anonimussBut it was more important for liberals to know how rich a presidential candidate is than how smart.
Only when it's a Republican. ;)
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mike-ciandella/2012/05/21/networks-target-romney-s-wealth-13-times-more-richer-sen-kerry
Quote: TwirdmanYou ever thought the problem is the 20k+ figure and not the kid not knowing what to do. Also what has happened to just wanting to learn for learnings sake. Also in college I took many history classes and none of them were this thrice weekly dose of the evils of the white man. They portrayed history accurately and in some of those cases the white man really messed things up I mean should we just avoid teaching the atrocities some group committed because you know some feelings might be hurt.
I don't get what you are asking in the first sentence? And if you want to learn for learnings sake that is fine. But lets face a few facts. First, people go to college to either improve their career chances or find a spouse who will have a better career (what we called a "husbandry" major.) At age 18, when you would normally go, you need to be either in training for a job or in a job. Put another way, you are a grown-up now and to repeat not in 13th grade.
I had some history classes that were taught well and some where the white man was put out as scum of the earth. Teach history accurately, not PC.
Quote: boymimboBravo for the +1s.
Geez, AZ, for a libertarian, you telling people what they should do with their lives sounds very communist to me.
I'm just making a suggestion based on what I have seen, which is called "advice." "Communist/Fascist" is when the government forces you to take their advice.
Quote:The dropout rate isn't ONLY because people don't know what they want to do. The dropout rate is so high because (1) it's a completely different experience that's difficult to adjust to (2) It's much harder in many cases than high school and they fail (3) they fail because the study methods that they used in high school doesn't apply to college (4) it's unaffordable
I am not saying it is the only reason. And your points are valid. What I am saying is when the drop-out rate is as high as it is then too many people are going who do not belong.
Quote:What history class am I taking where it is telling me how evil white males are for enslaving the world? And isn't that partially true?
I am not in your classes so I do not know what the professor is saying. But no, it is not true. If you think whites did bad things, take a look at what Asians have done. And if you think that is bad, look at what they have done in Africa. The wealth and comfort we have in this world of ours is mostly because of the advances made by European countries and cultures (ie: USA, Canada, OZ) more than any other. If not for the Europeans exploring and settling the world would be a far worse place.
Quote: AZDuffmanI don't get what you are asking in the first sentence?
I don't either. You have to be careful around Twird though. Whenever he's about to lose a debate, he'll make a subtle shift in his argument rather than admit defeat.
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't either. You have to be careful around Twird though. Whenever he's about to lose a debate, he'll make a subtle shift in his argument rather than admit defeat.
Subtlety implies cleverness. I see it more as a confused, sputtering panic and the stumbling inability to translate thought into words at a fast enough rate to appear spontaneous.
Quote: anonimussSubtlety implies cleverness. I see it more as a confused, sputtering panic and the stumbling inability to translate thought into words at a fast enough rate to appear spontaneous.
+1
That's true but the country will suck eggs if it's a Republican.Quote: boymimboThere will be an election in 2016, and someone will win, and democracy in the USA will continue to exist.
Quote: s2dbakerThat's true but the country will suck eggs if it's a Republican.
Yes, people might actually have to rejoin the labor force instead of being on the dole.
