Discussion about the Suspension List

Quote: sodawater

The Wizard sold his empire for $2.35 million. Obviously, the WoO site was the bulk of that price, but even if the WoV was a "throw in" to the deal, we can safely assume it accounted for a measly five percent of the purchase price.

No, it didn't. To be frank, things that lose money rather than make it (at least, at the time of purchase) tend to pull down the purchase price.

Quote:

Five percent of $2.35 million is $117,500. I seriously doubt the forum racked up $100k in costs over the years it's been in operation -- and this doesn't even count further income from ads, referrals, donation, etc

It doesn't have to have cost that to not make more than it does cost.

Quote:

So this forum did/does make money. I don't think a "bonus" of $5,000 per moderator would be out of hand.

That's quite generous of you, thank you. Would you like my mailing address? Postal Money Order will be fine, my bank won't cash a check for more than I have in checking.

Quote: sodawater

The Wizard sold his empire for $2.35 million. Obviously, the WoO site was the bulk of that price, but even if the WoV was a "throw in" to the deal, we can safely assume it accounted for a measly five percent of the purchase price.

Five percent of $2.35 million is $117,500. I seriously doubt the forum racked up $100k in costs over the years it's been in operation -- and this doesn't even count further income from ads, referrals, donation, etc

So this forum did/does make money. I don't think a "bonus" of $5,000 per moderator would be out of hand.

If this forum is worth $100,000, I'd be shocked. As in, anyone paying 100k for it on it's own. Now there are some adverts, it might pull in some revenue, but I'd also be surprised if it's anything like $20k / pa (and valuing the site at 5 times revenue is generous, IMHO)

No doubt if a mod resigned, there'd be quite a few applicants for the position.

I hurts my brain to think of some of them actually acquiring mod powers *shudder*.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I do believe that's a personal insult, since you're referring to "the mods, one of which has a hair trigger"; you've called me stupid. As well as your supposition being incorrect as to the facts. MY guess is that you don't know what you're talking about, or any of us in person.

Here's your Festivus present; I won't suspend you for this. I'll just say, right back atcha, pal.

I'm not bright enough to understand most of Varmenti's I mean Kerkebet's posts so I'm not sure if he called you stupid. I know I didn't mean to imply you were stupid. If you think my hair trigger remark was a personal insult then feel free to fire away.

Quote: 10DollarBri

I'm not bright enough to understand most of Varmenti's I mean Kerkebet's posts so I'm not sure if he called you stupid. I know I didn't mean to imply you were stupid. If you think my hair trigger remark was a personal insult then feel free to fire away.

Seems as if varmenti is now hosting karaoki now.he doesn't ever mention gambling on fb so not real sure if it is him.

If it's not him he wants you to believe it. Read his signature line.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/15164-baccarat-partner-betting/128/#post418041

Wizard of Vegas is worth about $41k

Quote: 10DollarBri

If it's not him he wants you to believe it. Read his signature line.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/15164-baccarat-partner-betting/128/#post418041

I totally missed his sig. Welcome back varmenti.

Quote: Mosca

Wizard of Vegas is worth about $41k

It puts Wizard of Odds at 101K, I'd say it has no idea what it's talking about because it doesn't know the advertising revenue streams or costs.

Yeah, Videopoker.com worth $42,339!? Don't think so. Little higher.

Quote: GWAE

Seems as if varmenti is now hosting karaoki now.he doesn't ever mention gambling on fb so not real sure if it is him.

Bummer man, I was hoping his bac skills worked out for him. He seemed like a fun guy.

My opinion might be swayed by the fact the closest I ever got to a bac game was watching James Bond playing Chemin De Fer. And that is way too close, even the movie put me to sleep.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: Mosca

Wizard of Vegas is worth about $41k

It puts Wizard of Odds at 101K, I'd say it has no idea what it's talking about because it doesn't know the advertising revenue streams or costs.

If I understand correctly, you were arguing that it was worth less.

In the end, a thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Nothing more, and nothing less. That website is an estimate; it will not buy your site, nor sell one to you, nor broker the sale. But it beats arguing about it... except, here we are.

Quote: Mosca

In the end, a thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Nothing more, and nothing less. That website is an estimate; it will not buy your site, nor sell one to you, nor broker the sale. But it beats arguing about it... except, here we are.

I don't mean to be argumentative, my point is simply that I don't personally consider any of those estimators (such as Alexa) necessarily strong indicators of a website's actual value because, and especially for sites such as these, they can't really take the ad revenues into consideration.

For instance, a click on the affiliate links could result in nothing, or it could result in x amount of money (I don't even know what the kickbacks are, in percentages, or what). The only thing that I do know is WoO gets and has gotten significantly more revenue from the links (before Bovada exclusivity, during Bovada exclusivity and now that Bovada in again not exclusive) than WoV and that WoV, overall, is not necessarily profitable.

I think it is mainly that we had fewer members back then.

To those who complain about the suspension list, let me offer a radical idea -- Don't read it.

I couldn't agree more. I block stuff that I don't want coming up in the newest threads. People just bitch and don't do what they can to make their life a little more pleasant. Miserable people just want to stay miserable. A sad commentary.

Quote: Mission146

That's quite generous of you, thank you. Would you like my mailing address? Postal Money Order will be fine, my bank won't cash a check for more than I have in checking.

You could be sure if I sold a company for $2.35 million, I would give a bonus to a volunteer moderator who had been working for free for years. But maybe that's the reason I don't have millions of dollars.

You don't get it: others will gladly step in to take their place, for free.

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Quote: MrV

You don't get it: others will gladly step in to take their place, for free.

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Why tip at a restaurant you'll never eat at again? Because it's nice for the waiter.

I always assumed that once the new owners bought the site there would be some significant changes. I haven't seen any, perhaps you only need a good affiliate deal and a few more adds.

I assumed they would need more help with whatever and they would offer the Mods a paied position.

I think some of you are way underestimating the value of this site. WOO might be the site that makes all the money but we have no Idea what role this site plays in getting trafic to the WOO site. I just know this site comes up in the top of Google when you search for anything gambling related.

More suspensions for more members and also the fact familiarity breeds contempt. After awhile people start getting comfortable pushing boundaries while others lose tolerance for quirks. Once someone crosses the line getting a suspension whether justified or not, they lose the benefit of the doubt and previously acceptable behaviors become unacceptable.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

More suspensions for more members and also the fact familiarity breeds contempt. After awhile people start getting comfortable pushing boundaries while others lose tolerance for quirks. Once someone crosses the line getting a suspension whether justified or not, they lose the benefit of the doubt and previously acceptable behaviors become unacceptable.

...and there is also the "who cares?" factor. I tried really hard for a long time to stay within the boundaries provided and then I decided that something needed to be said relative to B9's nuclear option and the lack of the same for someone else who regularly bullied people around here and I got seven days as a first suspension while everyone else gets three. Those seven days showed that I like the forum but being off of it wasn't worth me putting up with the bully (if that person acts up again towards me) or anything of that sort. Many people came to that conclusion way earlier than I did and don't really care about a few days off here and there should someone get their feathers ruffled.

I was wrong about B9; he could not stop. I am right about the other person...that one should have been gone also. That is the other reason not to care about suspensions so much...

Quote: texasplumr

I think it is mainly that we had fewer members back then.

To those who complain about the suspension list, let me offer a radical idea -- Don't read it.

I couldn't agree more. I block stuff that I don't want coming up in the newest threads. People just bitch and don't do what they can to make their life a little more pleasant. Miserable people just want to stay miserable. A sad commentary.

To avoid any confusion, my post begins here. The two lines above are yours. The first two sentences that you failed to quote are from the Wizard in response to a post that I made so I guess you're talking to me. To those who complain about the suspension list - Don't read it? Don't read the number one thread on this gambling forum or don't read or comment unless you agree? Is that what this forum is about? In that same post the Wizard also mentioned mass bans every Christmas of members who stir up trouble while still abiding by the rules. I assume that was a joke and not code for having a different opinion. I certainly hope so. In any event, Forum Rule 13 clearly states that a nuke would be used sparingly for the worst of trolls. Disagreeing is not trolling.

I disagree with things about the rules, the Suspension List and the moderation. I do it respectfully. I do not troll or flood whatever those mean. I certainly do not resort to insults. I simply have a difference of opinion. I have also spoken out about the less than friendly treatment of new members and that has fallen on deaf ears. There's a thread working now that will probably not end well for yet another new member. For that I have been the recipient of insults from a couple of forum members and mods and have been vaguely threatened with suspension.

Now to your comments, texasplumr. The title of this thread is Discussion about the Suspension List. It is not Discussion about the Suspension List Only If You Agree. A discussion is a pro and con exchange of ideas, a debate if you will. You don't like or agree with my ideas so you call me miserable. I take umbrage with your characterization of me, someone you don't even know.

My life is quite pleasant thank you. Calling me names because you don't agree with me is a sad commentary indeed.

Quote: 1BB

I couldn't agree more. I block stuff that I don't want coming up in the newest threads. People just bitch and don't do what they can to make their life a little more pleasant. Miserable people just want to stay miserable. A sad commentary.

To avoid any confusion, my post begins here. The two lines above are yours. The first two sentences that you failed to quote are from the Wizard in response to a post that I made so I guess you're talking to me. To those who complain about the suspension list - Don't read it? Don't read the number one thread on this gambling forum or don't read or comment unless you agree? Is that what this forum is about? In that same post the Wizard also mentioned mass bans every Christmas of members who stir up trouble while still abiding by the rules. I assume that was a joke and not code for having a different opinion. I certainly hope so. In any event, Forum Rule 13 clearly states that a nuke would be used sparingly for the worst of trolls. Disagreeing is not trolling.

I disagree with things about the rules, the Suspension List and the moderation. I do it respectfully. I do not troll or flood whatever those mean. I certainly do not resort to insults. I simply have a difference of opinion. I have also spoken out about the less than friendly treatment of new members and that has fallen on deaf ears. There's a thread working now that will probably not end well for yet another new member. For that I have been the recipient of insults from a couple of forum members and mods and have been vaguely threatened with suspension.

Now to your comments, texasplumr. The title of this thread is Discussion about the Suspension List. It is not Discussion about the Suspension List Only If You Agree. A discussion is a pro and con exchange of ideas, a debate if you will. You don't like or agree with my ideas so you call me miserable. I take umbrage with your characterization of me, someone you don't even know.

My life is quite pleasant thank you. Calling me names because you don't agree with me is a sad commentary indeed.

+1

I was having configuration problems with the quotes. The quote attributed to me was actually made by texasplumr. That post is one page back. I tried but now it looks like my post. Everything else is mine except the +1 at the end which was from Axel. Thank you, Axel!

The fact that there is a topic dedicated to the discussion of the suspension list, and that it is the #1 topic on the forum, indicates the passion that forum members have for this group.

I frequently like to refer people to Clay Shirky's groundbreaking social study A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy to help understand why things in forums happen the way they do. What I find fascinating about WoV is that just about every regular member considers her/himself a core member, part of "the group within the group that matters most." And this is built into the website. The site is set up to differentiate between users and members.

That, I think, is the reason 1) the arguments are so passionate and last so long. It is because the sense of ownership runs deep. Not ownership like Mike/Zuga, but ownership in the meaning of if it wasn't for the community there would be nothing to own. Members don't think of the website as a review of Vegas hotels and attractions; members see this site as a discussion forum. Members are different from users, who see the site as a place to read reviews of Vegas hotels and attractions.

And 2) why there are so many suspensions. People here care, and the nature of the subject has attracted people who are not necessarily intelligent (which is not relevant to my point) but highly independent and self reliant, people who rely mostly on their own analysis to come to conclusions. I think we have seen some pretty... interesting... people have come to this forum and argued some pretty wrong points to the point of nuking.

So everyone cares deeply. Everyone thinks they know it all. And, let's face it, gamblers can be anti-social. Honestly, it's a wonder that we haven't all been permanently nuked.


And anyone who is interested in understanding human behavior should set aside half an hour and read the essay. Even though it feels like it's been here forever, what we are doing is brand new in terms of groups. "Prior to the Internet, the last technology that had any real effect on the way people sat down and talked together was the table." Think about it.

Quote: sodawater

You could be sure if I sold a company for $2.35 million, I would give a bonus to a volunteer moderator who had been working for free for years. But maybe that's the reason I don't have millions of dollars.

Wizard has done a number of nice things for me, I just don't go into details publicly because it'd be unprofessional. Many of these things have essentially amounted to bonuses, but I'll leave it at that.

Quote: Mission146

Wizard has done a number of nice things for me, I just don't go into details publicly because it'd be unprofessional. Many of these things have essentially amounted to bonuses, but I'll leave it at that.

As long as it doesn't involve high heels and a.dress.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I do believe that's a personal insult, since you're referring to "the mods, one of which has a hair trigger"; you've called me stupid. As well as your supposition being incorrect as to the facts. MY guess is that you don't know what you're talking about, or any of us in person.

Here's your Festivus present; I won't suspend you for this. I'll just say, right back atcha, pal.

You are wrong on all counts.

"My guess would be that persons with extremely high intelligence quotients never come to decisions on the mundane. The only stuff which truly challenges them," isn't an insult, itself, per se to any one or group because no one or group is so proficient at everything; an insult in general because moderation, governance, or whatever you choose to call it, isn't about iq; or even an insult in specific because I quoted only the chickenman. Nor have I offended anyone who merely thinks he/she is a genius. In that case, it's better to learn the truth sooner than later.

I intentionally deleted chickenman's quote of another's of the moderator in question, whomever. Chickenman expressed no offense at my remark of what he alone wrote; though I do see a lot of similarly silly stuff. The original assumption of members' high iq wasn't directed at specifically the moderators. Hence, not my continued comments. No one, like him or love him, calls Obama's iq extremely high, ie, him a genius; any more than Einstein accepted Israel's offer to become honorary president, or whatever. Real geniuses don't waste their time commenting on governments, much less run for government; but, doctors, lawyers, bankers, war heroes, friends of politicians, and people with political and other imagined "beefs", do. As an aside, I wonder what the "death penalty" mentality has to do with iq, which is more out of the realm of the mundane or moderating. Just wondering, don't quote me on it as another slant and then slur. I do know that extreme geniuses never finish the tests because no one can account for all of the variables relevant to something.

"My guess would be that persons with extremely high intelligence quotients never come to decisions on the mundane. The only stuff which truly challenges them," may well be wrong, and was not intended as the stuff of fact, or to then insult someone in the process. Guess anything you want, who cares. Go on to cite anger, reincarnation, etc, but such has nothing to do with the insults claimed of me here. I quoted neither you, nor anything about you. Often, one can not determine the content of the quote nearly to the extent how much, or the reasons for, the quoter's own biases.

As for the "any of us in person" stuff... irrelevant. If it's okay for someone to comment on the collective membership's iq, something personal, then it's okay to first question that supposition. If we were all geniuses than we would also all be morons. (Genius isn't about seeing anything ahead of your time. Your time is your, whoever you are.) If we want to feign genius, then we are morons in the relative sense regardless a few of us may, on occasion, be quite clever. Amazing, how insulting across the board it can be when we try to clarify insults.

All message boards go through a life-cycle too. Watch the first few episodes of WKRP, and then a few of the last. What happened? It went from fun and spontaneous to an over-polished, syndicated production. No different that the other gambling boards. People start to feel important, the thing grows, and politics and economy creeps in. And on to the same endless governmental wrangling, and loss of interest in the thing, until it becomes a parody of itself. Yeah, THEY'd put the Wizard's face on pillows for the teenyboppers if it meant more revenue. Of course, every little thing is "Wizard approved" now.

Iq is what it is. Going to school, or coming here, won't change it. Nor is much of an iq required to pick up a profession. Seems to me that most university grads aren't aware of the fact that many of the key undergrad courses also occur as low-populated advanced level counterparts not listed in the blurbs. They never encountered the real geniuses throughout their normal studies. Let me tell you, there's nothing chatty or fun about those courses. Being a genius is as much a curse as a blessing.

As for the irrational or otherwise matter of mercy, make sure that you have your facts straight before also going on to impose the sentence. At least ask before you shot. We're not in a stupor here. No need to have to "walk on egg shells".


Add on: If you don't know your iq, and the background of the test(s), then you very likely don't possess an iq out of the norm.

Quote: miplet

Sorry, I can't resist

190

Welcome back, mkl!

Sorry. Couldn't resist either ;)

Quote: miplet

Sorry, I can't resist

190

Are you saying that your IQ is 190? I knew you were smart but that's impressive. I got the mkl reference.

Quote: 1BB

Quote: miplet

Sorry, I can't resist

190

Are you saying that your IQ is 190? I knew you were smart but that's impressive. I got the mkl reference.

LOL. I've never had my IQ tested, so I have no clue.

Well, your math skills say that you're up there.

Quote: miplet

Quote: 1BB

Quote: miplet

Sorry, I can't resist

190

Are you saying that your IQ is 190? I knew you were smart but that's impressive. I got the mkl reference.

LOL. I've never had my IQ tested, so I have no clue.

Yeah, miplet, having spent some time with you as well as what you write on here, I would guess you'd blow any IQ test out of the room.

I really like that about you. Smart as a whip, helpful, kind, and humble. Good people.

Quote: miplet

LOL. I've never had my IQ tested, so I have no clue.

If you went to public school in the US,
you took the test and they didn't tell
you the results. Somewhere around
6th grade usually.

Quote: EvenBob

If you went to public school in the US,
you took the test and they didn't tell
you the results. Somewhere around
6th grade usually.

How old Are you? They stopped that decades ago:-)

Quote: rdw4potus

How old Are you? They stopped that decades ago:-)

How do they figure out who's gifted and
who rides the Blue Bus, good guessing?
Of course they still us IQ tests.

Quote: EvenBob

If you went to public school in the US,
you took the test and they didn't tell
you the results. Somewhere around
6th grade usually.

I remember taking an IQ test in school. I broke the machine. Oh wait, that was the polygraph. Never mind.

Quote: Mission146

Would you like my mailing address? Postal Money Order will be fine, my bank won't cash a check for more than I have in checking.

Postal Money Orders seem to have a limit of $1000 each... so you might get 5. There may be a postal equivalent of a CTR on that.

Most banks will allow you to deposit the check, and then the funds become available after the normal clearing process (1-10 days, typically).

Quote: Dieter

Postal Money Orders seem to have a limit of $1000 each... so you might get 5. There may be a postal equivalent of a CTR on that.

Most banks will allow you to deposit the check, and then the funds become available after the normal clearing process (1-10 days, typically).

The post office Doesn?t even put the names on them or ask for identification unless you cash them there. I've never bought one for 1000 however.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

The post office Doesn?t even put the names on them or ask for identification unless you cash them there. I've never bought one for 1000 however.

I think $700 is their limit. But its been awhile since I bought one.

Quote: sodawater

Why would anyone want to be an unpaid moderator, working for free and making money for first the Wizard and now some murky foreign corporation?

Mods should unionize and demand payment.

Easy question. Since others have supplied their answer, I'll supply mine.

Gratitude. That pretty much sums it up, at least in the beginning. Just like many gamblers, I entered the casino clueless. All my knowledge came from movies. The position I entered in required knowledge of everything, from how to ring up a BLT to why a rotation is part of the shuffle procedure. I needed to learn, and I needed it quick.

WoV gave me all that and then some. Here was a trove of limitless knowledge, all at my fingertips. And if I happened upon a weird situation or something out of the bounds of a procedure manual, I had a number of professional, experienced, hardened members to call upon. This place, this sea of blue, white, and crazy fools, launched my career to heights I'd never imagined.

Then there was meeting Wiz. I am NOT a social person. Put me in any situation and I'd be perfectly comfortable doing it alone and talking to no one. But I decided to not be a recluse and approach the guy when I saw him in Vegas one day. That led to about 90 minutes of convo as he invited me to lunch, discussed game protection and the happenings of this forum, and took me on a tour of The M where he gave me a brief rundown of the machines he was breaking down and how he does it. So the guy who provided me with a source to launch my career was also a decent bloke.

I felt a debt of gratitude and wanted to repay it. When Wiz expressed concern with managerial workload, I offered my assistance and became a secret mod. When he expressed a wish to have more visible mods, I offered for that, too.

Things have changed over the years. My appreciation for the site turned into appreciation for the members of this sight. Soon it just wasn't repayment to Wiz, but a desire to pay back you all as well. I've made huge strides in vocabulary, written expression, problem solving, and critical thinking, just by crossing swords with the people here. I went through my divorce here. You people are the only ones I talked to about it, and the help I received was immeasurable. I received help with court, I received help with questions about existence, I was given lessons on thermodynamics, I was assisted in designing suspension for my race car. I get to argue religion with a Catholic priest. I get to argue infinity with a professor of mathematics. I have an outlet to express myself, which, as a loner, doesn't happen very often. Every day I come here I leave a better person.

So "unpaid"? Only if all that one values is money.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

The post office Doesn?t even put the names on them or ask for identification unless you cash them there. I've never bought one for 1000 however.

http://pe.usps.com/Archive/HTML/DMMArchive0810/S020.htm

Quote: S020

A postal customer may buy multiple money orders at the same time, in the same or differing amounts, subject to these restrictions:

a. The maximum amount of any single money order is $1,000.

b. Without exception, no customer may buy money orders on any 1 day whose total value exceeds $10,000. This daily limit applies regardless of the number of visits made by a customer to one or more postal facilities.

c. Any customer whose daily total of purchased money orders is from $3,000 to $10,000 must also complete Form 8105-A and show identification bearing the purchaser’s photograph, name, and address.

Quote: Face

So the guy who provided me with a source to launch my career was also a decent bloke.
.

Career? Race car driver? Did he let you
hotrod his Caddy around Vegas?

I would be a mod for a dollar two sixty
two an hour. I would guarantee two
nukes a day, deserve it or not.

Quote: EvenBob

Career? Race car driver? Did he let you
hotrod his Caddy around Vegas?

Maybe I should've said "former career".

But if he wants to let me rail the CTS around Las Vegas Motor Speedway before he sells it, I'M THERE. Just know it needs to include airfare as I only have $7.13 to my name XD

Quote: Face

Maybe I should've said "former career".

But if he wants to let me rail the CTS around Las Vegas Motor Speedway before he sells it, I'M THERE. Just know it needs to include airfare as I only have $7.13 to my name XD

Jeez, Face. PM me an address and I'll drop a Benjamin in the mail. I'm not kidding. I know you'd be the last to ask but I am serious.

Quote: 1BB

Jeez, Face. PM me an address and I'll drop a Benjamin in the mail. I'm not kidding. I know you'd be the last to ask but I am serious.

I believe you are and I'm flattered, but it is not necessary. You might be surprised to know you're not the first to offer (it surprised me).

I have a house and heat and running water. I have a pack of smokes and broadband internet. A working truck and enough gas to get somewhere. And despite my best efforts, I'm not yet physically disabled ;)

I might be uncomfortable, but I'm hardly struggling. And to be completely honest, your $100 would almost definitely be used as gas money so I can get to Michigan to play hockey =p

In other words, it wouldn't be proper. The gesture is enough, and graciously accepted =)

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

deleted

Darn. If we had only known that Ibeatyouraces was going to delete his posts we could have gotten a volunteer to quote them. All 5969 of them. I'm sure someone would be up for the job.

Quote: Face

I might be uncomfortable, but I'm hardly struggling. And to be completely honest, your $100 would almost definitely be used as gas money so I can get to Michigan to play hockey =p

The only money wasted on hockey is anything with a Toronto Maple Leafs logo on :)

Quote: 1BB

I'd like to wish a belated happy birthday to the suspension list which was born on Christmas Day four years ago.

First the Wizard followed the bright beacon in the sky.
A beam of light shining straight up with moths circling.
He knew he was in the right place.

Then he found a couple banned from their hotel room, living downtown at the Western in their car.
The lady claimed to be a virgin but was 9 months pregnant.
The Wizard fought off 3 wise guys who tried to rob them.
Then the Wizard loaned the couple money to get a real room.
But the husband gambled it away, and the lady pulled a pillow out from under her blouse.
And they both disappeared.

That was when the Wizard came up with idea of sending people packing.
And the suspension list was born.


So, I heard. Maybe.

Quote: Face

I get to argue infinity with a professor of mathematics.

Ok, I just have to ask...what is there to argue about infinity? :)