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sunrise089
sunrise089
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
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December 29th, 2010 at 2:14:40 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Sorry, no equivalence. I don't feel compelled to insert some kind of raving polemic against an ethnic/racial/class/etc. group as seasoning for virtually every post. And I do call Jerry on that when he does it, because I don't think hate-posts should be tolerated. Anywhere.



You don't posts racist rants, but you do go off topic and remind us that Jerry does so in most of your replies to him, even if the specific post you're replying to is completely tame.

As far as tolerating hate speech, who decides what qualifies at hate speech?
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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December 29th, 2010 at 2:23:19 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Sorry, no equivalence. I don't feel compelled to insert some kind of raving polemic against an ethnic/racial/class/etc. group as seasoning for virtually every post. And I do call Jerry on that when he does it, because I don't think hate-posts should be tolerated. Anywhere.



Then why do you lie about me so much, and why can't you ever do what you say you're going to do? Had you left in your "blaze of sorry" when you were suspended, your pain would have stopped then and there, as would your sniveling and lying here. You get what you ask for.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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December 29th, 2010 at 2:33:38 PM permalink
Quote: sunrise089

You don't posts racist rants, but you do go off topic and remind us that Jerry does so in most of your replies to him, even if the specific post you're replying to is completely tame.

As far as tolerating hate speech, who decides what qualifies at hate speech?



I would classify "hate speech" as any expression whose primary purpose is to express or to incite hatred against any person or group. I would also include anything gratuitous inserted into speech that dealt with a larger topic, such as when someone mentions Indian casinos, and Jerry employs his wisdom and prescience to tell us that all Indians are worthless drunks and cheats.

I also think that you don't have to answer the question "who decides". Hate speech is pretty obvious when it occurs.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
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December 29th, 2010 at 3:23:07 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I would classify "hate speech" as any expression whose primary purpose is to express or to incite hatred against any person or group. I would also include anything gratuitous inserted into speech that dealt with a larger topic, such as when someone mentions Indian casinos, and Jerry employs his wisdom and prescience to tell us that all Indians are worthless drunks and cheats.

I also think that you don't have to answer the question "who decides". Hate speech is pretty obvious when it occurs.



One would tend to think that you are trying very hard to let others know you're in one or two of those "groups" they way you rant & rave over what you want to think someone else is saying. We don't need to know what you're into.

Way to go ducking the first point!
EnvyBonus
EnvyBonus
Joined: Nov 24, 2009
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December 29th, 2010 at 4:11:28 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I would classify "hate speech" as any expression whose primary purpose is to express or to incite hatred against any person or group.



So would the statement "I hate pedophiles and encourage everyone else to advocate for the death penalty for crimes of child sex abuse" be hate speech? I hate pedophiles, and specifically intend to incite hatred of pedophiles in others enough to get US laws changed making crimes of child sex abuse a capital offense.
rxwine
rxwine
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December 29th, 2010 at 4:28:58 PM permalink
Quote: EnvyBonus

So would the statement "I hate pedophiles and encourage everyone else to advocate for the death penalty for crimes of child sex abuse" be hate speech? I hate pedophiles, and specifically intend to incite hatred of pedophiles in others enough to get US laws changed making crimes of child sex abuse a capital offense.



I don't think so. You need to advocate for beating them up, castrating vigilante style or something that is actually unlawful. I could be wrong though.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
EnvyBonus
EnvyBonus
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December 29th, 2010 at 5:05:08 PM permalink
I understand you're probably talking about what "hate speech" laws generally require (be they right or wrong). But I was going by mkl's definition which was "any expression whose primary purpose is to express or to incite hatred against any person or group. " So I think my example would qualify.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 30th, 2010 at 12:18:23 AM permalink
Quote: EnvyBonus

So would the statement "I hate pedophiles and encourage everyone else to advocate for the death penalty for crimes of child sex abuse" be hate speech? I hate pedophiles, and specifically intend to incite hatred of pedophiles in others enough to get US laws changed making crimes of child sex abuse a capital offense.



There's a distinction here. A "pedophile" is not someone who has committed a crime; that would be a "child sex abuser" or something of that nature. (In fact, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of pedophiles out there who have not and never will commit a crime.)

In any case, the group "child sex abusers" is not protected by law, but it is dealt with by law. So hate speech against a particular class of criminals isn't in the same category as hate speech against gays or Chinese or accountants or whatever, but it DOES subvert the process of law. If you or anyone else feels that the penalities for child sex abuse are too lenient, the lawful way to advocate that is to contact your legislative representatives, not to incite by way of angry speeches.

By the way, Jerry and others like him (who feel free to toss hate speech around like confetti) think that a person has to be a member of a particular group before he can be offended by hate speech against that group. As with most narrow, bigoted thinking, this couldn't be more wrong. Personally, I am neither Indian, Asian, or gay, but I am offended by Jerry's and others' attacks on those groups. And I'm sure I'm not alone in being so offended.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 30th, 2010 at 4:50:30 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Personally, I am neither Indian, Asian, or gay, but I am offended by Jerry's and others' attacks on those groups. And I'm sure I'm not alone in being so offended.

Ditto.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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December 30th, 2010 at 7:32:50 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

By the way, Jerry and others like him (who feel free to toss hate speech around like confetti) think that a person has to be a member of a particular group before he can be offended by hate speech against that group. As with most narrow, bigoted thinking, this couldn't be more wrong. Personally, I am neither Indian, Asian, or gay, but I am offended by Jerry's and others' attacks on those groups. And I'm sure I'm not alone in being so offended.



I really shouldn't bring this up, because I'm operating under a one-way truce with you. But I feel it necessary to give you a chance to apologize for some rather bigoted remarks you've made about Mexico and Mexicans in the past.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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