Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: FaceSkimming the link in question, the "much like you" part reads to me that the dude, well, is much like you. Many of the views you promote in the political threads are the same ones the gay man in rx's link promote.
The "argument post" that received a suspension was intended mockery at one's sexuality. rx's post was focused on political views. The fact that the man was gay was necessary to as it pertained to the particular argument y'all were engaged in - B9 says dems have the gay vote locked, rx shows they don't have all of the gay vote locked.
In my eyes, fair post.
Face, have you considered becoming an attorney? That's a pretty good defense, man. ;)
It's tough because I would also say that Dems have the black vote locked, even though guys like Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele are not Democrats. But...
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: FaceSkimming the link in question, the "much like you" part reads to me that the dude, well, is much like you. Many of the views you promote in the political threads are the same ones the gay man in rx's link promote.
The "argument post" that received a suspension was intended mockery at one's sexuality. rx's post was focused on political views. The fact that the man was gay was necessary to as it pertained to the particular argument y'all were engaged in - B9 says dems have the gay vote locked, rx shows they don't have all of the gay vote locked.
In my eyes, fair post.
Face, have you considered becoming an attorney? That's a pretty good defense, man. ;)
It's tough because I would also say that Dems have the black vote locked, even though guys like Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele are not Democrats. But...
I have to agree, FWIW; rx's post may have had a not-so-hidden agenda, but if it did, he kept it to himself. Face said it well.
Quote: beachbumbabsI have to agree, FWIW; rx's post may have had a not-so-hidden agenda, but if it did, he kept it to himself. Face said it well.
Beachbumbabs: Thx & I agree. His post, IMHO, definitely had some subtle undertones since most people would have simply said, "This guy has the same beliefs as you." But even so, I guess it's not suspension-worthy because of the reasons stated by F(ace) Lee Bailey. ;)
(To Face: That's a compliment since F. Lee Bailey is a freakin genius in the courtroom!) :)
NOTE TO MODS: You can ignore my question regarding suspensions and also the posts in the "2016 Election" thread. Even though, IMHO, the post in question had a (deliberate) double meaning, I agree with Face that it ultimately isn't suspension-worthy. Nuff said.
Quote: FaceSkimming the link in question, the "much like you" part reads to me that the dude, well, is much like you. Many of the views you promote in the political threads are the same ones the gay man in rx's link promote.
The "argument post" that received a suspension was intended mockery at one's sexuality. rx's post was focused on political views. The fact that the man was gay was necessary to as it pertained to the particular argument y'all were engaged in - B9 says dems have the gay vote locked, rx shows they don't have all of the gay vote locked.
In my eyes, fair post.
I completely agree. Fair post. Cmon B9, you dish it out all the time here and now you are offended because somebody posted that your views are very similar to a web page of a particular gay conservative that has put their views on the internet. Except for gay marriage, both of you have the same views.
You're missing the most important point: I don't break the forum rules. I thought that rxwine had made a clear personal attack (which *is* a violation of the rules), but Face proved that it's not clearly suspension-worthy after all. It's as simple as that.Quote: terapinedI completely agree. Fair post. Cmon B9, you dish it out all the time here and now you are offended
Yeah, and this is what most people would have said rather than "This guy is much like you."Quote: terapinedExcept for gay marriage, both of you have the same views.
Heck, he didn't even mention in his post that the guy was gay. Instead, he inserted a link which he knew would be good for the "shock" value once I clicked on it to see what it was. So he knew exactly what he was doing (although I reluctantly have to give him props for successfully walking the tightrope...haha).
In any case, this is all water under the bridge now. Time to move on...
Just to let you know, I was not piling on, I see a post , I slowly respond, and whoa, I see people already responded before I hit post, pretty much saying the same thing in different words. If I waited, I would have seen the others posts and would not have chimed in.
:-)
+1Quote: terapinedWater under the bridge. Its all cool.
Quote: Beethoven9th
In any case, this is all water under the bridge now. Time to move on...
But how does Varmenti figure into all this, can
you explain that part again?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/16100-bob-dancer-thief/3/#post299749
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/16333-casino-caught-taking-cards-out-of-the-deck-what-to-do/2/#post309021
Rule 6 says that "Profanity is not specifically prohibited, but should be used sparingly to emphasize a point only, or in quoting another". I'd argue that he was emphasizing his point. It was subtle and funny (I took it as a jab at the post which was claiming that things used to be different in the old days). It wasn't violent or directed at a specific person. Plus, I like reading his stories.
I'm not sure if we're supposed to advocate for people on this thread, but I'd like to submit a suggestion, for the consideration of the moderators, that the suspension be reduced to one day (and also that Rule 6 be clarified, because, if this is in violation of that rule, I clearly don't understand it)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI have a question about Mickey's suspension: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/16470-newsflash-bimbo-eruption-on-wov-causes-mass-hallucinations-virgin-sightings-in-cheese-sandwich/2/#post310182
Rule 6 says that "Profanity is not specifically prohibited, but should be used sparingly to emphasize a point only, or in quoting another". I'd argue that he was emphasizing his point. It was subtle and funny (I took it as a jab at the post which was claiming that things used to be different in the old days). It wasn't violent or directed at a specific person. Plus, I like reading his stories.
I'm not sure if we're supposed to advocate for people on this thread, but I'd like to submit a suggestion, for the consideration of the moderators, that the suspension be reduced to one day (and also that Rule 6 be clarified, because, if this is in violation of that rule, I clearly don't understand it)
Quote: BuzzardThis ain't a democracy.
Absolutely not a democracy, but I agree with Axiom that the rule in question could benefit from some clarification.
Now, if the Wizard wants to leave it ambiguous so that he and Mission can use their discretion in enforcement, that's fine. It's the Wizard's lawn, we're all just playing on it.
Personally I like swearing but I try to restrain myself here, due to the rule. I have not been popped yet, f*** yeah!
Quote: BuzzardThis ain't a democracy.
I never suggested that I should have a vote! I simply made a suggestion. The mods are free to act on it or ignore it as they see fit.
Quote: BuzzardI agree, but respectfully add your opinion does not matter, only Mission's.
Buzz, I think our opinions DO matter. The Wiz has many times taken feedback from the collective forum members with respect to making or changing forum policy. He retains the final judgement and Mission of course retains judgement in enforcing the rules.
But forum members expressing how they feel about the rules, totally appropriate. Just remember that you aren't entitled to anything.
Quote: BuzzardNot having a good day ACES I will retreat and leave my apology unsaid.
No apology needed.
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: AxiomOfChoiceI have a question about Mickey's suspension: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/16470-newsflash-bimbo-eruption-on-wov-causes-mass-hallucinations-virgin-sightings-in-cheese-sandwich/2/#post310182
Rule 6 says that "Profanity is not specifically prohibited, but should be used sparingly to emphasize a point only, or in quoting another". I'd argue that he was emphasizing his point. It was subtle and funny (I took it as a jab at the post which was claiming that things used to be different in the old days). It wasn't violent or directed at a specific person. Plus, I like reading his stories.
I'm not sure if we're supposed to advocate for people on this thread, but I'd like to submit a suggestion, for the consideration of the moderators, that the suspension be reduced to one day (and also that Rule 6 be clarified, because, if this is in violation of that rule, I clearly don't understand it)
Absolutely not a democracy, but I agree with Axiom that the rule in question could benefit from some clarification.
Now, if the Wizard wants to leave it ambiguous so that he and Mission can use their discretion in enforcement, that's fine. It's the Wizard's lawn, we're all just playing on it.
Personally I like swearing but I try to restrain myself here, due to the rule. I have not been popped yet, f*** yeah!
Well, the title of the rule is "Keep it PG", and using the "f-word" automatically bumps it up to PG-13 mininum, imo. So I'm okay with Wiz's ruling, and I think mickey would understand.
And Wizard and Mission are different in their standards. I think Mission lets it go a lot more as long as it doesn't directly insult anyone. And in one particular case, I was fairly insulted in a thread by a brand new poster with his profanity use directed at me, and mission still let it go. Fortunately, after a 20-page thread trying to drill basic gambling ideas in this guy's head who has no real grasp of gaming mathematics, he somehow became satisfied with an answer (which was like the 100th similar one) that other posters and I gave, and he finally shut up and left the forum. Both Math Extremist and I quit that thread after days of frustration trying to convince him his "system" didn't make a difference. If Wiz would have read that thread, that guy would have undoubtedly been suspended, possibly multiple times.
A lot of this forum is "chummy" now, including myself, and most of us are okay with some colorful language. But it can make the forum look a bit less professional at times if it gets out of hand, especially if you are using profanity mostly to explain your entire point as mickey did here. So I tend to use it quite sparingly here as it isn't that necessary to use. But like mickey, if I have been drinking, it might come out more...lol
Profanity in moments of passion or to emphasize a point is one thing. I do it, you do it, it's life. But crass and vulgar language, IMO, shouldn't fly here. It's not that I'm opposed to it in general, I just oppose it here.
This is one of the few (only?) places I can find to have intelligent conversation on the internet, or anywhere, to be honest. While I see a MC post and think "Oh, that's our Mickey", it will lead to others doing the same. Fast forward a year, and WoV is just another site filled with garbage posters ruining things.
He's a much loved member. He'll be back. He'll apologize, and he'll be forgiven. And by Wednesday, it'll be forgotten. Until Friday night ;)
Quote: FaceI've no problem with vulgar language, but I also agree with the suspension.
Mickey keeps pushing it when he drinks. You can
only push so much.
Quote: tringlomane
Well, the title of the rule is "Keep it PG", and using the "f-word" automatically bumps it up to PG-13 mininum, imo.
I remember when I worked at the Wherehouse you could only play PG rated or less movies on the store screens. I found out the hard way when they busted my chops for showing Kingpin(PG-13 version). So I thought everything is ok to put on Spaceballs. No one minded until near the end when Rick Moranis says the f-word. Then they had to have a new talk with me about WHAT PG movies I could put in :(
Quote: PerditionI remember when I worked at the Wherehouse you could only play PG rated or less movies on the store screens. I found out the hard way when they busted my chops for showing Kingpin(PG-13 version). So I thought everything is ok to put on Spaceballs. No one minded until near the end when Rick Moranis says the f-word. Then they had to have a new talk with me about WHAT PG movies I could put in :(
How did they sneak in an F-bomb? I thought a single F-bomb merited a PG-13 rating by default, and 2 or more bumped you to R.
I guess Spaceballs was '87. May have been more permissive back then.
Quote: AcesAndEightsHow did they sneak in an F-bomb? I thought a single F-bomb merited a PG-13 rating by default, and 2 or more bumped you to R.
I guess Spaceballs was '87. May have been more permissive back then.
Ratings have become much stricter through the years. Pg-13 used to have topless women.
Back to Spaceballs the scene in question @2:35
Quote: PerditionI remember when I worked at the Wherehouse you could only play PG rated or less movies on the store screens. I found out the hard way when they busted my chops for showing Kingpin(PG-13 version). So I thought everything is ok to put on Spaceballs. No one minded until near the end when Rick Moranis says the f-word. Then they had to have a new talk with me about WHAT PG movies I could put in :(
Ugh that sucks. "Spaceballs" is a great movie though! Also "Big" and "Beetlejuice" the next year (1988) apparently slipped the f-word by too.
I remember watching "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" with my older brother and mom when I was 6. I was told to cover my eyes when Jennifer Jason Leigh was about to get it on with Robert Romanus. I still peeked anyway. Great parents I have! lol
Quote: PerditionProbably. You had DreamQuest in 84 that started the Pg-13 trend and Buckaroo Bonzai a year later so not like the MPAA didn't have a choice about the higher rating. Maybe Mel Brooks called in a favor. Also I used to get in fights with my friends that insisted Titanic was rated R because Kate Winslet was nude. I said nude from the waist up & no shenanigans gets them under but they didn't believe me until they saw the video box for themselves.
I had no idea that you could get away with nudity in PG-13, even back then. They probably got more leniency due to the "artistic" nature of the nudity as well.
Quote: BuzzardI agree, but respectfully add your opinion does not matter, only Mission's.
Wait, what? I'd hate to pass the buck off on Wizard, but Wizard banned MickeyCrimm, not me! I was only on in the morning/early afternoon yesterday because I was off from work and had something going on yesterday evening.
Quote: EvenBobMickey keeps pushing it when he drinks. You can
only push so much.
Actually, and no offense to Mickey, you guys probably haven't seen half of the posts of his that I simply delete!
Quote: Mission146Actually, and no offense to Mickey, you guys probably haven't seen half of the posts of his that I simply delete!
That's not cool, if you don't hold everybody to the
same standards, what's the point. You can't play
favorites.
Quote: sodawaterI don't think mickey's post merited a suspension. In my opinion, the word is only offensive if used to insult someone. He was just using it as slang for lovemaking -- as the word has been used for decades.
It's a very specific way of making love. IMO he used it perfectly, almost the only way it would not be profanity.
This forum will not be used as a place for drunken profanity-laden rambling rants.
Quote: EvenBobThat's not cool, if you don't hold everybody to the
same standards, what's the point. You can't play
favorites.
Who said I don't? I didn't say I wouldn't do the same for someone else on a similar post, or that I haven't.
Quote: WizardYou can blame me for the Mickey suspension, and I make no apologies for it. In all cases we also consider context and the overall status of the member. Mickey has had lots of close calls recently.
This forum will not be used as a place for drunken profanity-laden rambling rants.
Don't misunderstand me, though, he probably needed a short little ban because he can't count on me being off-and-in constantly to delete the posts for him. I just meant that I couldn't say why he was banned under that Rule because my ban would have been pursuant to the, "Keep it PG," Rule rather than the profanity rule.
Quote: WizardYou can blame me for the Mickey suspension, and I make no apologies for it. In all cases we also consider context and the overall status of the member. Mickey has had lots of close calls recently.
This forum will not be used as a place for drunken profanity-laden rambling rants.
Thanks for the explanation. Please understand that in no way did I mean to question your authority on the matter.
Quote: BozI just hope Mickey comes back because he adds more to the forum that 90percent of the posters here, me naturally included.
I also enjoy many of his posts. He has been suspended by other forums so this isn't new to him. Hopefully he returns.
Quote: WizardI hope he appreciates that he got three days only. Normally, for a second suspension, I go up to a week, per my Martingale policy.
I noticed that, and it got me thinking...
Dude is gonna Martingale himself into oblivion, since that's how Martingale works. Perhaps just ban him every Friday afternoon and unban him Sunday morning. Then he doesn't get "special treatment" by only getting 3 days every time, we don't lose Mickey to the Martingale, and every Sunday can be story time XD
Quote: FaceI noticed that, and it got me thinking...
Dude is gonna Martingale himself into oblivion, since that's how Martingale works. Perhaps just ban him every Friday afternoon and unban him Sunday morning. Then he doesn't get "special treatment" by only getting 3 days every time, we don't lose Mickey to the Martingale, and every Sunday can be story time XD
Probably won't mean a thing to him. I help out at a clinic where we see binge drinkers, people who stumble in in drunken stupors, and hopeless regular drunks. I've said before Mickey appears to be a belligerent, dangerous drunk based on his crazy posts at times. It's also why I don't give any credence to his stories from years ago and why he's in such an oblivious place today. I wish he would get help.
Quote: tournamentkingProbably won't mean a thing to him. I help out at a clinic where we see binge drinkers, people who stumble in in drunken stupors, and hopeless regular drunks. I've said before Mickey appears to be a belligerent, dangerous drunk based on his crazy posts at times. It's also why I don't give any credence to his stories from years ago and why he's in such an oblivious place today. I wish he would get help.
I have never noticed him being as vulgar as every one is saying but I do block a lot of threads. I really hope that his stories are all made up in his drunkenness state.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI had no idea that you could get away with nudity in PG-13, even back then. They probably got more leniency due to the "artistic" nature of the nudity as well.
I remember reading about it, the logic went if it was not connected to sexual situations and brief you could get a PG-13, otherwise an R
Quote: tringlomane
I remember watching "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" with my older brother and mom when I was 6. I was told to cover my eyes when Jennifer Jason Leigh was about to get it on with Robert Romanus. I still peeked anyway. Great parents I have! lol
Before being re-cut that scene got FTARH an "X" rating.
I don't think Mickey will be upset for being suspended. I think he realizes he did something not to kosher and he can man up and handle the consequences. If someone gets upset over being suspended on a forum for a few days they have some problems. Ahigh comes to mind, this forum seemed to be interfering with his life in a negative way.
