Discussion III about the Suspension List
Quote: MDawg
Ah okay, he has edited to saying "in years" or perhaps I didn't catch that qualifier.link to original post
I did not edit, although that's just my word. (I generally don't edit, excepting typo & formatting corrections; if I do it is VERY clearly marked.)
We've also demonstrated that hard to believe claims can be politely challenged.
Nobody is likely to challenge my claim that I lose playing coin pushers, or that $20 buys a lot more entertainment on a coin pusher than it does at a $25 minimum table.
Quote: DieterQuote: Marcusclark66Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: unJonQuote: DieterQuote: mwalz9I love this place!
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Fantastic! That's incredible!link to original post
I don’t believe you.link to original post
60 some!link to original post
Disbelieve me if you wish, but I haven't lost a hand of blackjack in a casino in years.link to original post
Never? Not one hand?link to original post
Oh, to be sure, I used to lose, before I discovered the secret to not losing.link to original post
Secret Sauce? As in bbq rib sauce or other products?
Quote: Marcusclark66link to original post
Secret Sauce? As in bbq rib sauce or other products?
I'm not going to give the milk away for free; you have to buy the ebook.
I'm not supposed to accept bribes, after all.
gee, I think I'll put in an application for casino security work!Quote: Marcusclark66Other things happen as well. Such as a female stripping down to her underwear and bra attempting to continue playing at a table game. There’s all sorts of stuff that happens at a casino where if you told somebody they would accuse you of making it up, If they didn’t see it
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Here's why:
What if EvenBob had quoted "Very low carb, high healthy fat diets are quite healthy diet FOR LARGELY SEDENTARY people" or even the entire sentence "Very low carb, high healthy fat diets are quite healthy diet FOR LARGELY SEDENTARY people but the assumption that everyone is mostly sedentary or suggestion that they should be cuz low carb good, all carbs bad is rather ridiculous." how would that have changed EvenBob's point of his post (his retort to McAllister3200) that "High-fat diets are not healthy no matter who you are."? The point of EvenBob's post was EB's claim that high-fat diets are unhealthful for everyone, including for sedentary people. I do not believe EB was implying that McAllister3200 was saying that high fat diets are quite healthy (period) EB was merely quoting part of the sentence and then going on to state that they are not healthy for anyone.
Quote: MDawgMy pointing out the misrepresentation by OnceDear in the below was not for the purpose of asking for a greater than 30 day penalty for OnceDear; indeed, so that I am not misunderstood, I withdraw any alleged request that OnceDear be punished - rather my point was that EvenBob should be released from WOV prison forthwith because what he did wasn't even as bad as what OnceDear did.
Thank you.
Quote: MDawgHere's why.
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Here's why:
What if EvenBob had quoted "Very low carb, high healthy fat diets are quite healthy diet FOR LARGELY SEDENTARY people" or even the entire sentence "Very low carb, high healthy fat diets are quite healthy diet FOR LARGELY SEDENTARY people but the assumption that everyone is mostly sedentary or suggestion that they should be cuz low carb good, all carbs bad is rather ridiculous." how would that have changed EvenBob's point of his post (his retort to McAllister3200) that "High-fat diets are not healthy no matter who you are."? The point of EvenBob's post was EB's claim that high-fat diets are unhealthful for everyone, including for sedentary people. I do not believe EB was implying that McAllister3200 was saying that high fat diets are quite healthy (period) EB was merely quoting part of the sentence and then going on to state that they are not healthy for anyone.
Unfortunately, I don't quite agree with that.
In OnceDear's case, the antecedent of "he" was unclear. I believe it was still clear that you were not speaking in the third person about your play; you were recalling someone else's commentary. Whether it was the pit boss, a dealer, or another patron would seem to make little change in the effect of the statement - an observer of the play took note of your favorable results. Some observers may be more credible than others, but your heater was still recognized.
I believe there to have a much greater change of meaning by omission in the EvenBob case.
Quote: Mission146Thus:
Arguably Rule 1
Rule 5 as relates duplication
Rule 12 as, even if not Trolling, you could consider the language as bullying.
And Rule 20, even if not any of the above.
With many repeated infractions, and almost certainly more to come in the future…bye-bye.
And, I’d say you also look at the sum of his posts: His posts have added nothing here.
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Thanks Mission,
We have some interesting opinions on whether WellBush has broken the rules, and what, if any penalty he deserves.
I appreciate your input. You clearly strongly advocate nuking him. I think it's fair to say that others see no offence or minimal offence.
Courteous disagreement is welcome.
Totality of contribution is a factor and on that one small aspect I disagree with Mission:
Wellbush came here as a believer in certain fallacies. His posts and his presence here gave us the opportunity to address those fallacies. But then some started to detect a trend of what I characterise as mischievous trolling. I.e. it had gone beyond unbelievable that he was not receptive to the help he was being given. His latest post struck me as trolling and insulting to all those who had tried to help him. His wording was at the very least 'unfortunate' through to downright insulting to the forum.
This range of opinions is why I sought the opinions of fellow mods including Wizard.
I'm going to unsuspend wellbush now. Maybe he would like to comment on his recent sentence.
I bid you all a good evening as I hand over to the night shift.
It is what it is. As far as totality of posts is concerned, I’ll just say that posts will make clear who is or is not moronic.
The only thing moronic about my posting with Wellbush is that I, for some reason, continue to speak to him.
Honestly, the only thing I’d be interested in knowing is what he thinks he gets from being here…or what his personal goals for participating are? His posts have certainly never proven anything, have never meaningfully argued in favor or against anything in a concrete way and have never done anything to debunk gambling math or mathematicians…short of unsupported declarative statements to the contrary.
Good point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
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We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
I found W's comments about mathematicians to be one of the most profoundly insulting things I've ever read here on the site in the last decade plus. That includes the worst things that were said about HotBlonde before any of the insult rules were established. It was a direct frontal attack on the best people who have posted here, and so far over the top that there is no rescuing or argument that could possibly justify it. Mike, Charles Mousseau Stacey Friedman, Don Schlesinger, Norm Wattenburger, Stephen Howe, etc.Quote: OnceDearGood point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
link to original post
We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
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This site has fallen so far and it is so sad. That there is even a debate on this matter speaks volumes about the quality of information the owners really care about. I'm sad for Mike that he has this site in his legacy. I'm sad for Mike because he is a friend and doesn't deserve this.
This site is a pitiful morass. You know this is true Mike, please do something about it. Please. Think of all the good people who no longer post here and understand what you have lost.
Quote: vegasMission. A troll has trouble laying out his path if people don't interact with them. Why do you continue to engage? You are just feeding them. I know you can't let incorrect info go, but sometimes you have to just give up and walk away.
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The trouble with tribbles, sorry trolls, is that they make certain to inject themselves wherever you go.
Ignoring them by not reading their threads, fine. But then they make certain to add snarky comments in your own threads.
Because the point of trolling is to get a rise out of people.
Quote: vegasMission. A troll has trouble laying out his path if people don't interact with them. Why do you continue to engage? You are just feeding them. I know you can't let incorrect info go, but sometimes you have to just give up and walk away.
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That’s all fair. It’s also my fault for my inability to let certain things go.
I think Alan's point, which I agree with, is that what you've outlined in the wrong approach. When insults are left intact, the forum is a cesspool.Quote: OnceDearGood point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
link to original post
We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
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Also, other forums don't have public punishment and endless discussion about it. It's all handled privately, as it should be. I non-trivial percentage of words spilled on the WoV forum are about rules and whether they were broken or not, crowding out actual content.
Can anyone say?
Quote: MichaelBluejayWhen insults are left intact, the forum is a cesspool.
Exactly.
Quote: teliotI found W's comments about mathematicians to be one of the most profoundly insulting things I've ever read here on the site in the last decade plus. That includes the worst things that were said about HotBlonde before any of the insult rules were established. It was a direct frontal attack on the best people who have posted here, and so far over the top that there is no rescuing or argument that could possibly justify it. Mike, Charles Mousseau Stacey Friedman, Don Schlesinger, Norm Wattenburger, Stephen Howe, etc.Quote: OnceDearGood point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
link to original post
We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
link to original post
This site has fallen so far and it is so sad. That there is even a debate on this matter speaks volumes about the quality of information the owners really care about. I'm sad for Mike that he has this site in his legacy. I'm sad for Mike because he is a friend and doesn't deserve this.
This site is a pitiful morass. You know this is true Mike, please do something about it. Please. Think of all the good people who no longer post here and understand what you have lost.
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A poster on another site came clean today and announced that he's Wellbush. If that's correct, what you read here out of him is the nice-guy semi-sane Disney version of how he feels about probability.
If correct, all of this engaging him and trying to teach him stuff here was an absolute, complete waste of time and typing and reading.
Quote: rsactuaryCan you say if it is a formerly banned member? Have to admit I'm curious.
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I'm not familiar enough with banned members for any length of time, so no idea. I will look it up and get you the name.
It's "karumba" at Gamblingforums.com. He started a "Wellbush Paradox I and II" thread there.
He's basically nuts, which fits in with a lot of posters there. LOL. Hope that's not an insult.
Quote: redietzQuote: teliotI found W's comments about mathematicians to be one of the most profoundly insulting things I've ever read here on the site in the last decade plus. That includes the worst things that were said about HotBlonde before any of the insult rules were established. It was a direct frontal attack on the best people who have posted here, and so far over the top that there is no rescuing or argument that could possibly justify it. Mike, Charles Mousseau Stacey Friedman, Don Schlesinger, Norm Wattenburger, Stephen Howe, etc.Quote: OnceDearGood point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
link to original post
We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
link to original post
This site has fallen so far and it is so sad. That there is even a debate on this matter speaks volumes about the quality of information the owners really care about. I'm sad for Mike that he has this site in his legacy. I'm sad for Mike because he is a friend and doesn't deserve this.
This site is a pitiful morass. You know this is true Mike, please do something about it. Please. Think of all the good people who no longer post here and understand what you have lost.
link to original post
A poster on another site came clean today and announced that he's Wellbush. If that's correct, what you read here out of him is the nice-guy semi-sane Disney version of how he feels about probability.
If correct, all of this engaging him and trying to teach him stuff here was an absolute, complete waste of time and typing and reading.
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If only there were someone out there who could have anticipated such a thing several months in advance.
Oh, wait…
Quote: Mission146Quote: redietz
If correct, all of this engaging him and trying to teach him stuff here was an absolute, complete waste of time and typing and reading.
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If only there were someone out there who could have anticipated such a thing several months in advance.
Oh, wait…
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You told me so.
I am happy to send you some conciliatory stale factory produced baked goods as apology.
Quote: teliotI found W's comments about mathematicians to be one of the most profoundly insulting things I've ever read here on the site in the last decade plus. That includes the worst things that were said about HotBlonde before any of the insult rules were established. It was a direct frontal attack on the best people who have posted here, and so far over the top that there is no rescuing or argument that could possibly justify it. Mike, Charles Mousseau Stacey Friedman, Don Schlesinger, Norm Wattenburger, Stephen Howe, etc.Quote: OnceDearGood point AlanQuote: AlanMendelsonRather than suspensions, how about moderators removing offensive posts?
link to original post
We remove spam and some grossly inappropriate posts from socks, but the posts of our established members are given due respect. At most we might redact them where, for example the dox someone.
link to original post
This site has fallen so far and it is so sad. That there is even a debate on this matter speaks volumes about the quality of information the owners really care about. I'm sad for Mike that he has this site in his legacy. I'm sad for Mike because he is a friend and doesn't deserve this.
This site is a pitiful morass. You know this is true Mike, please do something about it. Please. Think of all the good people who no longer post here and understand what you have lost.
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I rather like the idea of requiring certain members to get permanent warnings to cease and desist from repeating certain topics, or suffer permanent bans. If they decide to be obtuse about it, and fail to get the right message as determined by the mods than they still get a permanent ban. No playing dumb.
Of course, they should get proper answers at first, and they should get a proper warning beforehand that they are going under the gun of being banned from a subject. And failure to understand that warning will not be an excuse. Because people on this site should have at least a modest ability to understand..
Well regarding content, what if we took it upon ourselves to post relevant content and implement a site course correction.Quote: MichaelBluejay
I non-trivial percentage of words spilled on the WoV forum are about rules and whether they were broken or not, crowding out actual content.
I hope that more or less, that is what I have done. It is at least what I have tried to do.
Quote: rxwine
I rather like the idea of requiring certain members to get permanent warnings to cease and desist from repeating certain topics, or suffer permanent bans. If they decide to be obtuse about it, and fail to get the right message as determined by the mods than they still get a permanent ban. No playing dumb.
link to original post
I rather like the idea of requiring certain members to get permanent warnings to cease and desist from responding to certain topics, or suffer permanent bans. If they decide to be obtuse about it, and fail to get the right message as determined by the mods then they still get a permanent ban. No playing dumb.
Quote: JohnnyQWell regarding content, what if we took it upon ourselves to post relevant content and implement a site course correction.Quote: MichaelBluejay
I non-trivial percentage of words spilled on the WoV forum are about rules and whether they were broken or not, crowding out actual content.
I hope that more or less, that is what I have done. It is at least what I have tried to do.
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Great post.
Quote: MDawgQuote: rxwine
I rather like the idea of requiring certain members to get permanent warnings to cease and desist from repeating certain topics, or suffer permanent bans. If they decide to be obtuse about it, and fail to get the right message as determined by the mods than they still get a permanent ban. No playing dumb.
link to original post
I rather like the idea of requiring certain members to get permanent warnings to cease and desist from responding to certain topics, or suffer permanent bans. If they decide to be obtuse about it, and fail to get the right message as determined by the mods then they still get a permanent ban. No playing dumb.
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Someone arguing 2+2 =3 is free speech
Someone arguing 2+2= 3 a hundred times, is spamming and a nuisance.
Just my opinion, of course.
(But I really just didn't have anything to say up to now,)
If you mean the member WellBush (currently suspended), He is not believed (by me) to be any formally banned member.Quote: rsactuaryCan you say if it is a formerly banned member? Have to admit I'm curious.
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From what I've observed, he seems to be exactly as he portrays himself here: An adherent to the gamblers' fallacy and a believer in game beating progressive systems.
Quote: StarburgerI believe that asking someone if they feel insulted before issuing any suspensions is the way to go. A lot of people don't feel insulted at all by what looks to be an insult directed at them, and even find it humorous. One man's offense is another man's humor.
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I don't know if the moderators follow that, but it seems like a good idea and would save them some headaches (heartaches?)
No one complains; leave it be. (some exceptions of course, involving possible legal issues like libel, or threats)
It started when he insulted unnamed moderators in this post. His final sentence did not fool me.
I then sought advice from the other moderators on a term. During this time, he issued a threat against another moderator who he suspected of suspending him. It is my policy to avoid suspending people here for comments on other forums as much as I can. However, making threats supersedes that. There is some precedent for that. mickeycrimm once made a death threat against me at another forum. He was already nuked at the time, but that certainly sealed the nuke. I also reported the threat to the police.
If anyone makes a threat against a member in good standing here, especially a moderator, anywhere, I welcome that information reported to me by PM.
Let me make loud and clear that the initial suspension and nuking of redietz are entirely on me. Gordon had nothing to do with either. If redietz is going to come after somebody, it should be me.
In all honesty, I like to joke around, have fun, and be sarcastic, and I have had my share of suspensions, but issuing threats because of an online forum is way beyond the scope of things I'd ever do. Nothing here is that serious.
Quote: rxwineQuote: StarburgerI believe that asking someone if they feel insulted before issuing any suspensions is the way to go. A lot of people don't feel insulted at all by what looks to be an insult directed at them, and even find it humorous. One man's offense is another man's humor.
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I don't know if the moderators follow that, but it seems like a good idea and would save them some headaches (heartaches?)
No one complains; leave it be. (some exceptions of course, involving possible legal issues like libel, or threats)
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Like everything else, it depends.
The milder the insult, the more likely the moderators are to confer with the potentially insulted party.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/24321-great-ap-story-non-gambling-with-a-gambling-angle/#post499776
but nothing in the suspension list from the year of his last day on this forum (2018)?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/35436-suspension-list-archive-2017-2019/#post788751
Quote: WizardLet me explain the nuking of redietz.
It started when he insulted unnamed moderators in this post. His final sentence did not fool me.
I then sought advice from the other moderators on a term. During this time, he issued a threat against another moderator who he suspected of suspending him. It is my policy to avoid suspending people here for comments on other forums as much as I can. However, making threats supersedes that. There is some precedent for that. mickeycrimm once made a death threat against me at another forum. He was already nuked at the time, but that certainly sealed the nuke. I also reported the threat to the police.
If anyone makes a threat against a member in good standing here, especially a moderator, anywhere, I welcome that information reported to me by PM.
Let me make loud and clear that the initial suspension and nuking of redietz are entirely on me. Gordon had nothing to do with either. If redietz is going to come after somebody, it should be me.
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Where did he issue the threat against a mod?
in DT forum?
Muleyvoice was one of his very many identities. Banned for having multiple accounts.Quote: 100xOddsmuleyvoice is in red:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/24321-great-ap-story-non-gambling-with-a-gambling-angle/#post499776
but nothing in the suspension list from the year of his last day on this forum (2018)?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/35436-suspension-list-archive-2017-2019/#post788751
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Over on VCT.Quote: 100xOddsQuote: Wizard {Edited for brevity}
...
If anyone makes a threat against a member in good standing here, especially a moderator, anywhere, I welcome that information reported to me by PM.
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Where did he issue the threat against a mod?
in DT forum?
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Quote: Dieter
Like everything else, it depends.
The milder the insult, the more likely the moderators are to confer with the potentially insulted party.
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So if I said "you eat rutabagas" how much time would I get?
Depends on whether he actually eats them, doesn't it? ;)Quote: AZDuffmanSo if I said "you eat rutabagas" how much time would I get?
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BTW, rutabagas are nasty. I never learned to enjoy them, despite my Dad's many attempts to feed them to me growing up. They are like bitter potatoes that never get soft, no matter how long you cook them. They make much better duckpin bowling balls than food.
Quote: WizardQuote: DieterI'll take a misquoting penalty as directed.
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You are sentenced to telling the forum a joke of your choosing.
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Serving my penalty here. This seems like a pie eating contest where the prize is more pie.
(My chips are mostly retired cheques.)
7-s is even.
Top three signs of laziness:
#1:
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: Dieter
Like everything else, it depends.
The milder the insult, the more likely the moderators are to confer with the potentially insulted party.
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So if I said "you eat rutabagas" how much time would I get?
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A few points:
0. You seem to be attempting to nail jello to a tree.
1. I like rutabaga. It's quite nice when shredded like hashbrowns, tossed with salt, and baked with butter. (The salt counteracts the bitterness; the shredding gets the cross section small enough to cook.)
C. Each infraction is assessed individually.
4. In general, I would view that as a very mild barb, but context can change meaning, and someone may be allergic to rutabagas.
Name of the original acct?Quote: OnceDearMuleyvoice was one of his very many identities. Banned for having multiple accounts.Quote: 100xOddsmuleyvoice is in red:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/24321-great-ap-story-non-gambling-with-a-gambling-angle/#post499776
but nothing in the suspension list from the year of his last day on this forum (2018)?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/35436-suspension-list-archive-2017-2019/#post788751
link to original post
link to original post
also, he went undetected for 3 years and 135 posts?
Quote: 100xOddsName of the original acct?Quote: OnceDearMuleyvoice was one of his very many identities. Banned for having multiple accounts.Quote: 100xOddsmuleyvoice is in red:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/24321-great-ap-story-non-gambling-with-a-gambling-angle/#post499776
but nothing in the suspension list from the year of his last day on this forum (2018)?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/35436-suspension-list-archive-2017-2019/#post788751
link to original post
link to original post
also, he went undetected for 3 years and 135 posts?
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I'm going to have a little dig into the reasoning behind his suspension. It was A LONG TIME ago.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Please release the prisoners. They have paid their debt to society.
ZCore13
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The gates appear to have been cast open.
I think someone forgot to file some paperwork.
I'll get on it.
Quote: OnceDearQuote: 100xOddsName of the original acct?Quote: OnceDearMuleyvoice was one of his very many identities. Banned for having multiple accounts.Quote: 100xOddsmuleyvoice is in red:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/24321-great-ap-story-non-gambling-with-a-gambling-angle/#post499776
but nothing in the suspension list from the year of his last day on this forum (2018)?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/35436-suspension-list-archive-2017-2019/#post788751
link to original post
link to original post
also, he went undetected for 3 years and 135 posts?
link to original post
I'm going to have a little dig into the reasoning behind his suspension. It was A LONG TIME ago.
link to original post
See here.
I kinda trust the original moderator on this case.
Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: 100xOddsName of the original acct?Quote: OnceDearMuleyvoice was one of his very many identities...
link to original post
also, he went undetected for 3 years and 135 posts?
link to original post
I'm going to have a little dig into the reasoning behind his suspension. It was A LONG TIME ago.
link to original post
See here.
I kinda trust the original moderator on this case.
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Yes. All makes sense. He was contributing innocuous posts and went under the radar, back then.
