Discussion II about the Suspension List
Quote: FTBSome could argue the so-called "valuable members" have engaged in trolling here and there as well. Some could also argue the moderation favors the "regulars" over the so-called "trolls."
And who is to say one is a troll while another is a "valuable" member? Is there some kind of quota? Are there parameters in place to determine who is or who isn't?
It's all a murky gray area. It is what it is. If you do not like it, do not read nor participate (and I have followed my own advice when it pertains to this site as I do not post every single day).
Most sensible post I have read in a while. And it comes from a member who is not one of the long term ones.
Reminds me of what a judge I argued a case before once said, speaking to the opposing side's client, words to the effect of, Sometimes we have to let go of our dreams and move on. In this WOV context, I think it means that some of the older members here have decided what this forum should be about, and are recalcitrant towards any kind of change, such as, no politics, no religion, no discussion of trips unless a loss was incurred, etc.
And who is to say that the older members have the best, gambling or Vegas related content anyway? What did you eat today?
As the Wizard has said more than once, Let me introduce a novel concept - if you don't like it, don't read it.
Quote: gamerfreakSee the two most active threads in the forum if you want an example.
The most active threads are considered a disruption?
Are members somehow forced to read or participate in the popular threads, or do they become popular by choice of the members?
If I had a reference list of "valuable" members, then I could submit that the majority of posts in the most active threads are made by the those members.
But without such a list, all members should be considered of equal value to the owners of the site.
NO THREADS SHOULD EVER HAVE BEEN BANNED.
IN FACT, KEEPING THE TROLLIEST THREADS OPEN KEEPS THE TROLLS IN THOSE THREADS BUSY.
YOU CAN BLOCK THOSE THREADS YOU DON'T WANT TO READ.
SEE, YOU ONLY ALLOW NONSENSE ABOUT NONSENSE IN ONE THREAD. BRING IT TO THE NEW THREAD AND GET THE BANHAMMER.
and that's how you do it.
Did I shout enough?
Quote: darkozI also grew up in Queens and have a collection of over 3000 comics.
Not too much into diorama's though loo
Where in Queens? I grew up in Jamaica, then Jamaica Estates.
Quote: gordonm888Where in Queens? I grew up in Jamaica, then Jamaica Estates.
Bayside (Whitestone) here. Only the rich kids had parents that could afford Jamaica Estates!
Quote: billryanThankfully, they have been replaced by super hi-rollers who never lose and the worlds best-unpublished game designer. It's the circle of life.
Quote: billryanMy neighborhood in Queens no longer exists. Bellaire used to be from Francis Lewis Blvd to the point where Jamaica Avenue and Hempstead Avenue split off. To the west was Hollis and to the east was Queens Village. Now it seems that Hollis and Queens Village are right next to each other. My old home is listed on Zillow as being in Queens Village. A generation ago, those were fighting words.
I grew up in Queens village till my teens. Then moved to Far Rockaway
In the late 80s, my cousin got a job with FDNY and moved to the Rockaways. He throws a small party and we discover you have to walk down an alley to use a common bathroom and the only shower is outdoors. The whole block was like that but now it all has been replaced by luxury condos.
I lived on 211th St off of 99th Avenue and then on 217th St and 104th Ave. before moving out to the Island in 74.
Quote: SOOPOONot sure, but I think it is time to unsuspend both MDawg and USPapergames.
You should be resuspended for posting that lol
Quote: SOOPOONot sure, but I think it is time to unsuspend both MDawg and USPapergames.
It's probably a better idea to have both of them serve out their entire suspensions.
. That’s what I meant. It just seems like it has been that long. I frankly don’t remember the exact dates of suspension nor how long they were. There have been many instances of the moderators just forgetting to unsuspend naughty posters.Quote: rdw4potusIt's probably a better idea to have both of them serve out their entire suspensions.
Due for release as per the suspension list 18h and 25th.Quote: SOOPOO. That’s what I meant. It just seems like it has been that long. I frankly don’t remember the exact dates of suspension nor how long they were. There have been many instances of the moderators just forgetting to unsuspend naughty posters.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
Someone is bored as hell. Is the Wife on a solo vacation or something? Tell her I said hello.Quote: SOOPOONot sure, but I think it is time to unsuspend both MDawg and USPapergames.
But we are 'the house' $:o)Quote: billryanIt's strange that the powers that be spend so much time warning people not to use the martingale system when gambling but chose to use it in their moderation. A bit of a mixed message, imo.
Not only that, they don't seem to know how to martingale properly.Quote: billryanIt's strange that the powers that be spend so much time warning people not to use the martingale system when gambling but chose to use it in their moderation. A bit of a mixed message, imo.
toucheQuote: OnceDearBut we are 'the house' $:o)
It's the undocumented loss rebate scheme $:o)Quote: AxelWolfNot only that, they don't seem to know how to martingale properly.
PG might have got just 3 days if he hadn't directly defied my polite reminder.
And I realise, that in neither case was Marty religeously applied, but that doesn't mean anything.
Quote: OnceDearPokergrinder 7 days for personal insult in the 'Bitcoin' thread to match the 7 days issued (by Wizard?) to Axelwolf in the same thread.
PG might have got just 3 days if he hadn't directly defied my polite reminder.
And I realise, that in neither case was Marty religeously applied, but that doesn't mean anything.
I agree with both suspensions. Both PG and Axel are amongst the most valuable posters here. They are both aware that I am usually in agreement on their suspicions of posters making outlandish claims. I hope upon their return they take to my posting style. I make my points clear.... without crossing that Wizard imposed line. (Not always....).
And this, unlike my knowledge of bitcoin, is not known to me first hand.
Quote: MDawgIn the penal system,
I'm not hearing Jon Lovitz
Hmm
More like Cliff Claven :-)
Please knowledgeable Sensei, more on subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion topic or what anybody is discussing here.
Is your Mama bear about to come on and back you up :-)
Fascinating. If you need me to get a message, small package, or mobile device to, say, Axelwolf, then just PM me. I don't propose to keister it, though. Yes. I am familiar with the process, though I've never tried it.Quote: MDawgIn the penal system, when the lead guy of a race or gang (known as the “shot caller” who has the “keys” to the yard or prison) is confined behind the walls in solitary (also known as “the hole”) or even worse, is confined in the S.H.U. (pronounced ‘shoe’ – Security Housing Unit) and something needs to be sent to him – whether a message (also known as a “kite”) or drugs, one of the underlings is ordered to do what it takes to get himself “rolled up” off the mainline yard, by deliberately defying the rules such as by getting into a fight or stabbing another inmate. Before getting rolled up the inmate prepares himself by concealing (“keistering”) what it is he’s been marked to transport to the hole or S.H.U., all in service and support of the gang.
And this, unlike my knowledge of bitcoin, is not known to me first hand.
Incidentally, if you need to prove that you own ten BTC, I'm happy for you to send them to me so that I can immediately send them back to you. No need to involve coinbase. Actually, I can propose something MUCH safer than that which will at no time give me control of the BTC. You do trust me, don't you MDawg?
$:o)
Now. Since I have your attention. Please behave impeccably on this forum for a while. I don't want any more suspensions.
Observation: Some members seem to receive martingale suspension while other don't.
Question: Now the martingale itself. 3-7-14-30 and so on. 3 -> 7?? 14 ->30?? This is a Martingale I am not familiar with. lol
Quote: kewljQuestion and observation for my favorite Wizard. (I only know of one Wizard actually).
Observation: Some members seem to receive martingale suspension while other don't.
Question: Now the martingale itself. 3-7-14-30 and so on. 3 -> 7?? 14 ->30?? This is a Martingale I am not familiar with. lol
it's basically starting at 3, and doubling, but rounded to amounts that are familiar from a calendar perspective. That's how I've looked at it anyways.
Like seven days is in a week
Four weeks is in a month
Twelve months is in a year
Four weeks × twelve months = 52 weeks!
Quote: darkozYeah it's calendar math.
Like seven days is in a week
Four weeks is in a month
Twelve months is in a year
Four weeks × twelve months = 52 weeks!
Yeah, like when I was a banker for the military. So many of those guys thought making a car payment every two weeks was twice a month. Eight months into the loan they could not figure out why they were falling behind. And idiots that worked with me never warned them! I nearly got written up for grumbling about it when a girl transferred a call and ratted me out.
As to the marty system here any suspension on a job is usually 3 days the first time. Then a week is logical as it is easy to remember for all.
However, sometimes we get off that track, depending on the situation.
Quote: WizardIt's not an exact Martingale. Call the Wizard variant, that tends to go 3 days - 1 week - 2 weeks - 1 month - 2 months - 4 months - 6 months - 1 year. I think 1 year is the furthest we ever got.
However, sometimes we get off that track, depending on the situation.
I think it should be a Fibonacci from now on :)
Quote: OnceDearI've reinstated KewlJ following a reconsideration of the context and source of the quote involved.
I appreciate that as it is the right move. :/
You said something yesterday in defense of the suspension that I found really odd. You said it was "a borderline call". We can argue that, but instead, I will just say, if something IS actually a borderline call, the better option would be to not suspend, maybe a warning, maybe just nothing. I would think the act of suspension should be reserved for flagrant and clear cut violations of rules and policy.
Now, something occurred yesterday while I was "on vacation" that enhanced a concern that already bothered me that I am going to voice. I was previously suspended for using the word "fiction" in regard to Mdawgs claims. This has bothered me since it occurred because just prior to my use of "fiction" Mr Wizard had stated that everyone had the right to decide for themselves whether they believe the claims in question. Fiction is not a derogatory term like lying.
So here is where it gets real problematic for me. Yesterday while I was on vacation, Axelwolf posted that the whole Mdawg thread should be moved to the fiction section. I am not trying to get Axel in trouble, because he is 100% correct and I agree with him 100%, but come on....same word. I am suspended and his use is fine. A little consistency please.
Quote: kewljSo here is where it gets real problematic for me. Yesterday while I was on vacation, Axelwolf posted that the whole Mdawg thread should be moved to the fiction section. I am not trying to get Axel in trouble, because he is 100% correct and I agree with him 100%, but come on....same word. I am suspended and his use is fine. A little consistency please.
In the interests of consistency, AxelWolf gets 14 days for said remark, per the Martingale. Another member officially pressed charges privately as well.
Quote: WizardIn the interests of consistency, AxelWolf gets 14 days for said remark, per the Martingale. Another member officially pressed charges privately as well.
Well I wasn't "pressing charges" (which by the way is a horrible policy, encouraging people to complain about every little thing), I was simply pointing out the inconsistency. And this was exactly the wrong remedy in my opinion of course. Now I feel obliged to publicly apologize to Axelwolf,
Quote: kewljI appreciate that as it is the right move. :/
You said something yesterday in defense of the suspension that I found really odd. You said it was "a borderline call". We can argue that, but instead, I will just say, if something IS actually a borderline call, the better option would be to not suspend, maybe a warning, maybe just nothing. I would think the act of suspension should be reserved for flagrant and clear cut violations of rules and policy.
Now, something occurred yesterday while I was "on vacation" that enhanced a concern that already bothered me that I am going to voice. I was previously suspended for using the word "fiction" in regard to Mdawgs claims. This has bothered me since it occurred because just prior to my use of "fiction" Mr Wizard had stated that everyone had the right to decide for themselves whether they believe the claims in question. Fiction is not a derogatory term like lying.
So here is where it gets real problematic for me. Yesterday while I was on vacation, Axelwolf posted that the whole Mdawg thread should be moved to the fiction section. I am not trying to get Axel in trouble, because he is 100% correct and I agree with him 100%, but come on....same word. I am suspended and his use is fine. A little consistency please.
Hi KJ, You are welcome and i'll respond frankly.
It was me that suspended you and it was me that reconsidered, of my own volition. I ran both decisions by Wizard and he did not direct me either way.
To the specifics of your suspension and the quote that led to it: Though I follow US politics, I was not immediately aware that the 'CDC' quote that Wizard gave was one of trumps. With hindsight, that alone was provocative and seems to have led to your response. The reference to HydroQuinone was conspicuous to me as an apparent dig at that president. To me that was the more controversial, political barb. The undertone in total certainly still strikes me as more political and provocative than many others that have led to suspension. Maybe, Just maybe Wizard should have seen that coming when he made that unattributed quote.
Now, as to 'borderline.' That is subjective, but this is how I treat borderline: If something is truly on the fringe of suspension worthy, I don't suspend. Simple as. That is the sort of moderation in moderation that I applied when I excused your masked obscenity in the covid thread, which might have led to suspension in another context. I describe as 'borderline', an infringement that is clearly outside the rules, but at a level where I feel it would be hard for me to overlook.
Finally, the aspect of describing threads as 'Fiction' or as I am known to describe 'Nonsense'. I'm slightly at odds with Wizard. Yes. I said that! I do NOT see it as offensive or insulting (not even borderline) to assign the label 'Fiction' or 'nonsense' to some of the posts here. I and others have sought Wizard's judgement on this and he has unequivocally stated a much more robust opinion. His forum, his rules! and so I will tend to be more sparing of the use of those words in my future posts and I might have to enforce Wizard's interpretation in the posts of others. I'll still lean towards a Less is More, moderation in moderation approach. That doesn't mean that certain members won't drive me to the point of suspending them by patterns of deliberately pushing the envelope with individually minor snipes.
I will continue to TRY to be consistent, but for those who might be lurking with a view to sniping, If a member posts only with a view to stirring controversy, that might earn suspension more easily than one who contributes robustly to the core theme of the forum. Call that favouritism if you wish.
Constructive feedback is welcome. Maybe Wizard will weigh in and nix some or all of this post. Till then, make of it what you will.
Stay safe folks
.
Quote: WizardIn the interests of consistency, AxelWolf gets 14 days for said remark, per the Martingale. Another member officially pressed charges privately as well.
I don't get this Mr Wizard. You said everyone should decide for themselves whether they believe the claims in question. So that would mean, if I say I don't believe them, that is ok. But if I say I think they are "fiction", that is not ok. IT IS THE SAME THING!
Likewise, someone saying they don't believe the claims and saying they think the thread belongs in the fiction section is the same thing.
And the fact that "another member" officially pressed charges (odd terminology...how about just complained), is problematic. Every complaint shouldn't be granted. By your own words people have a right to believe what they want.
I know Axel will not lose sleep over being suspended, but I hope you will at least give some thought to reconsideration. He is right and I think we all know it, even if some can't or won't say so.
Thanks for the Feedback KewlJ, Please be patient.Quote: kewlj
I don't get this Mr Wizard. You said everyone should decide for themselves whether they believe the claims in question. So that would mean, if I say I don't believe them, that is ok. But if I say I think they are "fiction", that is not ok. IT IS THE SAME THING!
Likewise, someone saying they don't believe the claims and saying they think the thread belongs in the fiction section is the same thing.
And the fact that "another member" officially pressed charges (odd terminology...how about just complained), is problematic. Every complaint shouldn't be granted. By your own words people have a right to believe what they want.
Also, "I do not believe MemberX or ThreadY" expresses something about me and my belief set and not anything about MemberX or ThreadYQuote: unJonWeighing in to agree with Kewlj for what it’s worth. My laymen rule of thumb on staying within the rules is “attack the post not the poster.” So I would think in bounds to call a post fiction. But crossing the line to call the poster a liar.
But that's only my opinion. Not policy. YMMV
Quote: kewljSo that would mean, if I say I don't believe them, that is ok. But if I say I think they are "fiction", that is not ok. IT IS THE SAME THING!
That is not the same thing. Saying his posts are "fiction" is like saying he is lying. Saying you don't believe the claims is much softer, perhaps explained that he doesn't remember the details exactly or is exaggerating a bit.
That ruling stands. If you don't agree with it, nobody is forcing you to stay.
Quote: WizardThat is not the same thing. Saying his posts are "fiction" is like saying he is lying. Saying you don't believe the claims is much softer, perhaps explained that he doesn't remember the details exactly or is exaggerating a bit.
That ruling stands. If you don't agree with it, nobody is forcing you to stay.
What a sad and pathetic ruling.
Quote: HunterhillI have to agree,this is one of the worst suspensions ever.
I would think the only two people who would disagree with you are currently suspended!
By the way..... which clairvoyant predicted this slew of suspensions once EB weighed in on the ease with which he has beaten Baccarat and Roulette? Me!!!!
Quote: SOOPOOI would think the only two people who would disagree with you are currently suspended!
By the way..... which clairvoyant predicted this slew of suspensions once EB weighed in on the ease with which he has beaten Baccarat and Roulette? Me!!!!
You think the two suspended people would disagree with me? So that means they don’t think it’s one of the worst suspensions?
. Yes. The two suspended people I am referring to are MDawg and CoachBelly.Quote: HunterhillYou think the two suspended people would disagree with me? So that means they don’t think it’s one of the worst suspensions?
