Discussion II about the Suspension List
I apologise for that on behalf of my fellow moderators.Quote: kubikulannI have been suspended 14 days, end date Oct 13.
Only today Oct 20 am I finally given access again.
There is no channel through which you can present your defense, contest an unjust decision, appeal to other mods, signal these types of errors, make yourself heard once you are suspended.
This all creates a justice problem.
But that did not give you a right to insult the forum management in the BBB Birthday thread. For that you probably earned a 28 day suspension, but I'm going to be very lenient and take that offence to be covered by time served in error.
Quote: kubikulannThis is typical of totalitarian dictatures. Savonarola Florence. French Revolutionary Tribunal. Nazis. Stalinian Soviet Union. Big Brother.
- Law sufficiently unclear that anything can be brought against anyone. The aim is to get people to fear the authorities.(*)
- Arbitrariness rules. Some major infractions get looked over, some inexistant infractions are sued.
- The accuser is the judge. No discharge inquiry.
- Facts do not matter. It is all in the judge‘s subjective appreciation. « If I call you that, do you feel insulted? »
- The accused person’s intention is not investigated. The judge knows better what your intention was.
- The supposedly insulted person has no say in the matter. Only the judge ‘’knows better’’.
- Suspect = accused = condemned without hearing. No defense rights. No innocence.
- Only one sanction.
- No jury, no appeal. You depend on the whim of one judge, even if all others would have stated differently. If asked, they never dare contest their colleague’s decision.
- When accused (=condemned), you are put under secrecy - no way to call for justice.
- Sentence duration arbitrarily prolonged. They don’t even respect their own so-called Martingale rule, already ludicrously unright..
(*) For instance, my use of the word ’totalitarian’ could be construed as an insult. My criticism of the judicial system could be construed as ‘personal’ insult to its creator. This is how you forbid unwanted free speech.
See?Quote: OnceDearI see from the suspension thread that you were released late, so I apologise for that. However this post of yours was an insult to wizard and the moderators here, so it has earned you another suspension. Let extra time served cancel out what's due now.
This forum is not a democracy: It's a benevolent dictatorship. We are all guests here with zero rights beyond what the operators may grant from time to time.
Now all. If you wish to debate the rights and wrongs of suspensions, take it to the appropriate thread. Doing so here has become a thread hijack.
Just EXACTLY what I denounced.
Inventing new infractions. Making personal something that is clearly general and does not bring any person. A SYSTEM is criticized. It’s operators are not in the least attacked personally, let alone insulted.
Curiously, he punishes me for calling it a disctatorship, then proceeds to confess it is one. Go figure.
I must contest the word ‘benevolent’. Once in their target sights, you deserve no benevolence. If I write a piece about the Kelly criterion, they will find it insults personally every unnamed person that uses it, or they will judge it is blasphemous, and use the martingale to kick me out.
I prefer to shake the dust off my soles. I have absolutely no intention to put myself at the mercy of dictatorial operators, with zero rights. That’s my personal 2d amendment.
Your loss.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.Quote: kubikulannI prefer to shake the dust off my soles. I have absolutely no intention to put myself at the mercy of dictatorial operators, with zero rights.
Your loss.
Goodbye.
I was not talking to you. I was addressing the democrats. (You confessed yourself not being one, in your moderator persona, which is whom I address here. This cannot be an insult, can it? Well... anything can be expected from your kind.)Quote: OnceDearGoodbye.
Please notice banishment is a sentence reinvented by the Terror Revolutionaries. Later used by Napoleon III, by the Nazis — never existed in modern democracies. It expresses the will of purity in the social group, some kind of ‘moral’ cleansing. If you criticize the government, you are not part of the People!
Ancient Athenians or Romans preferred voluntary exile : Cicero, Themistocles, Scipio,... Good company. Sometimes they were triumphally welcomed back, when the tyrant was deposed.
Didn.t care a bit, no interesting thread anyway.Quote: Zcore13Will you be ok? It must be devestating not being able to post to a forum for an extra 7 days.
But I’m HP. One of the characteristics is an absolute need for justice. All my life I have denounced unjust situations. On principle.
Welcome back :)Quote: kubikulannDidn.t care a bit, no interesting thread anyway.
But I’m HP. One of the characteristics is an absolute need for justice. All my life I have denounced unjust situations. On principle.
What's 'HP' in this context?
https://www.internetslang.com/HP-meaning-definition.asp ? 'Harry Potter' just doesn't seem to fit.... Well, maybe it does?
Quote: OnceDearWelcome back :)
What's 'HP' in this context?
https://www.internetslang.com/HP-meaning-definition.asp ? 'Harry Potter' just doesn't seem to fit.... Well, maybe it does?
I'm assuming histrionic personality.
I saw the thread at Diversity Tomorrow and I refrained from posting in it because of the thread's creator.
EvenBob could have said "pointedly" rather than "rudely' but in reality he really should not have raised the issue at all.
This is, perhaps, what happens to 'line skaters' .
The main thing to remember is that whether you term it a Democracy or a Tyranny, this entire forum would not exist but for the long hard (unpaid) work of BBB. Oh yes, there are other Green Inkers and their efforts are appreciated, but lets face it, the greatest burden was shouldered by BBB.
Quote: OnceDearWelcome back :)
What's 'HP' in this context?
https://www.internetslang.com/HP-meaning-definition.asp ? 'Harry Potter' just doesn't seem to fit.... Well, maybe it does?
Hyper Political?
ZCore13
Quote: kubikulannGoodbye.
Goodbye. I think OD forgot to click "ban," so I will. While a nuking would be easily justified, I'll be nice and file this as a permanent resignation.
I wish you well, elsewhere.
Shame. He was very value add on math and gambling problems.Quote: WizardGoodbye. I think OD forgot to click "ban," so I will. While a nuking would be easily justified, I'll file this as a permanent resignation.
I wish you well, elsewhere.
Getting back to the topic at hand, you just see the SAME characters taking turns getting suspended. Some men, you just can't reach.
Obviously, society failed him.
Quote: MDawgMaybe but he also made posts claiming that there is no such thing as a good or bad shoe of cards, which is absurd.
Getting back to the topic at hand, you just see the SAME characters taking turns getting suspended. Some men, you just can't reach.
It’s how they want it. So they get it.
Hasn’t changed since the early days in the 1990s.
Quote: WizardGoodbye. I think OD forgot to click "ban," so I will. While a nuking would be easily justified, I'll be nice and file this as a permanent resignation.
After some push-back behind the scenes, I'll file this as an "indefinite resignation." That means a minimum of 30 days and a humble request to return. Such requests may be made at the WoO contact form or DT.
Quote: WizardAfter some push-back behind the scenes, I'll file this as an "indefinite resignation." That means a minimum of 30 days and a humble request to return. Such requests may be made at the WoO contact form or DT.
You may regret giving in to that push-back.
You had it right the first time with this guy
Quote: michael99000You may regret giving in to that push-back.
You had it right the first time with this guy
Thanks. We mods sometimes have to find a compromise. Kub seems like a smart guy who could be valuable to the forum. However, he seems to not understand that when you're in somebody else's house you respect their rules. If you don't like the rules, then don't come in.
Quote: onenickelmiracleDid Evenbob get banned or did he resign because there isn't anything to fight about here.
Suspended for insulting Babs in her happy birthday thread.
Quote: MDawgRegarding Kubla Khan , I'm as opinionated as they come but not arrogant - arrogance stems from insecurity. In any case, anyone who can't follow the rules and keeps getting suspended should get the boot - permanently. Most all of these repeat offenders should have been booted long ago, anyone who has suffered five or more suspensions short or long can't program and is not worth the babysitting.
Not arrogant?!? ROFL 😂🤣
Quote: kubikulannGoodbye.
Quote: PokerGrinderNot arrogant?!? ROFL 😂🤣
Personal insult -- Three-day suspension.
Quote: WizardPersonal insult -- Three-day suspension.
Two things:
First, this is suspension worthy? Seriously?!? This is about as weak as it gets Mike but hey it’s your forum.
Second you forgot to actually suspend me.
In a court of law, truth is an absolute defense. What a quaint concept.
Quote: PokerGrinderTwo things:
First, this is suspension worthy? Seriously?!? This is about as weak as it gets Mike but hey it’s your forum.
Second you forgot to actually suspend me.
Face, Wizard, oncedear, and BBB are arranging a conference call to discuss your egregious offense. They have allotted two hours for the discussion. I have been appointed as your advocate. I think I can get your sentence lowered to two days. I am gathering forensic evidence, expert witness testimony, evaluating precedent,
Either all that or I'm sitting by a pool drinking hard lemonade.....
I expect you will be the first of many suspended for interacting with Mdawg. I make it 50-50 that I'll earn a time out.
Quote: SOOPOOFace, Wizard, oncedear, and BBB are arranging a conference call to discuss your egregious offense. They have allotted two hours for the discussion. I have been appointed as your advocate. I think I can get your sentence lowered to two days. I am gathering forensic evidence, expert witness testimony, evaluating precedent,
Either all that or I'm sitting by a pool drinking hard lemonade.....
I expect you will be the first of many suspended for interacting with Mdawg. I make it 50-50 that I'll earn a time out.
Riot at 2 if you want, but don't forget to vote! I need Scheer and Trudeau to come within 2 points of each other in order to win a bet...
Edit: to make this post fit in the thread...there's a point at which evidence is sufficient to support the veracity of a claim, right? If pointing to that truth (or lack thereof) is insulting, that's maybe not the pointer's issue.
Agreed, but precedent had been set when it was determined that calling someone a troll is a bannable offense, even if that said someone is undeniably a troll. I'm sure the same would apply to any objectionable personality trait.Quote: rdw4potusEdit: to make this post fit in the thread...there's a point at which evidence is sufficient to support the veracity of a claim, right? If pointing to that truth (or lack thereof) is insulting, that's maybe not the pointer's issue.
Isn't a 3-day ban in Canada only 2.1 days here in the states?
Quote: PokerGrinderNot arrogant?!? ROFL 😂🤣
I must be dense. Took me reading it to figure out what was going on. I guess it is an insult. Damn you for getting suspended right before I leave for a chip collecting drive.
Quote: JoemanAgreed, but precedent had been set when it was determined that calling someone a troll is a bannable offense, even if that said someone is undeniably a troll. I'm sure the same would apply to any objectionable personality trait.
Isn't a 3-day ban in Canada only 2.1 days here in the states?
yep, like if you call me fat, I might very well be fat but it is an insult to call me fat.
However I believe if you write something like, that post was very fat it would be ok.
"Are you short?"
Standing at only 5'4, I immediately took offense!!!
However, MDawg's post contained a statement that he was "opinionated but not arrogant." So pokergrinder's offense was of the nature of saying "I don't agree" rather than saying out of the blue "You are arrogant." It was MDawg that introduced the topic of whether he was arrogant.
If someone on the forum says : "I am the smartest person on this forum." Is it an insult if someone responds "LOL, are you serious?" ? Or was it an insult to other forum members to claim that they are not as smart as you?
Quote: gordonm888This is Mike's forum, we all recognize that. And I am really trying to get out of the business of criticizing the moderators.
Thanks for trying.
Quote:However, MDawg's post contained a statement that he was "opinionated but not arrogant." So pokergrinder's offense was of the nature of saying "I don't agree" rather than saying out of the blue "You are arrogant." It was MDawg that introduced the topic of whether he was arrogant.
Speaking for myself only, I don't get into the parts of speech and rules of grammar in analyzing whether something was an insult. If I was in MDawg's shoes I would have felt PG called me arrogant and then laughed at my claim that I wasn't. That MDawg brought it up doesn't matter.
To go even further, I can insult myself, but if anyone agrees, that is subject to suspension, depending on context.
Quote:If someone on the forum says : "I am the smartest person on this forum." Is it an insult if someone responds "LOL, are you serious?" ? Or was it an insult to other forum members to claim that they are not as smart as you?
One may say, "I am the smartest person on this forum," because it is a very broad statement. However, one can't say "I'm smarter than gordon888." As to "LOL, are you serious?," yes, that would probably get a suspension.
Again, I go by feel. Other moderators may see things slightly differently.
Quote: gordonm888This is Mike's forum, we all recognize that. And I am really trying to get out of the business of criticizing the moderators.
Thanks for trying.
Quote:However, MDawg's post contained a statement that he was "opinionated but not arrogant." So pokergrinder's offense was of the nature of saying "I don't agree" rather than saying out of the blue "You are arrogant." It was MDawg that introduced the topic of whether he was arrogant.
Speaking for myself only, I don't get into the parts of speech and rules of grammar in analyzing whether something was an insult. If I was in MDawg's shoes I would have felt PG called me arrogant and then laughed at my claim that I wasn't. That MDawg brought it up doesn't matter.
To go even further, I can insult myself, but if anyone agrees, that is subject to suspension, depending on context.
Quote:If someone on the forum says : "I am the smartest person on this forum." Is it an insult if someone responds "LOL, are you serious?" ? Or was it an insult to other forum members to claim that they are not as smart as you?
One may say, "I am the smartest person on this forum," because it is a very broad statement. However, one can't say "I'm smarter than gordon888." As to "LOL, are you serious?," yes, that would probably get a suspension.
Again, I go by feel. Other moderators may see things slightly differently.
Finally, sometimes a complaint gets filed, in which case we tend to be more strict, since the alleged victim at least felt insulted.
Quote: MDawgIn any case, anyone who can't follow the rules and keeps getting suspended should get the boot - permanently. Most all of these repeat offenders should have been booted long ago, anyone who has suffered five or more suspensions short or long can't program and is not worth the babysitting.
I didn't look at everyone but these were what I noticed:
PokerGrinder now has three suspensions.
EvenBob four.
kubikulann four.
ams288 four.
romes three.
MaxPen three.
DarkOv two.
TomG two.
terapined two.
Boz - nine!
BillRyan - nine!
WatchMeWin - ten!
ZenKinG- sixteen!
The last four show a blatant disregard for the rules with 9 - 16 infractions each.
Quote: MDawgI didn't look at everyone but these were what I noticed:
Did you look at both lists of old suspensions? I'd be interested to see a list going back as far as we kept records.
Quote: MDawgI didn't look at everyone but these were what I noticed:
PokerGrinder now has three suspensions.
EvenBob four.
kubikulann four.
ams288 four.
romes three.
MaxPen three.
DarkOv two.
TomG two.
terapined two.
Boz - nine!
BillRyan - nine!
WatchMeWin - ten!
ZenKinG- sixteen!
The last four show a blatant disregard for the rules with 9 - 16 infractions each.
I dont like that Darkov guy who is very arrogant.
But as for myself, DarkoZ, it has been 2 suspensions in like 9 years so pretty good I think
Quote: WizardDid you look at both lists of old suspensions? I'd be interested to see a list going back as far as we kept records.
I looked at this one
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
only.
Adding these two
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/30764-suspension-list-archive-2/#post644844
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/21601-suspension-list-archive/
as well, we arrive at:
PokerGrinder now has three suspensions.
Axelwolf four. (not counting one in which he volunteered to do the time for someone else)
MaxPen four.
terapined four.
SOOPOO three.
romes three.
DarkOv three.
rxwine three.
TomG two.
kubikulann five!
ams288 six!
EvenBob seven!
BillRyan - nine!
WatchMeWin - eleven!
Boz - fifteen!
ZenKinG- sixteen!
The last seven show a blatant disregard for the rules with 5 - 16 infractions each.
Quote: MDawgI looked at this one
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
only.
Adding these two
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/30764-suspension-list-archive-2/#post644844
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/21601-suspension-list-archive/
as well, we arrive at:
PokerGrinder now has three suspensions.
Axelwolf four. (not counting one in which he volunteered to do the time for someone else)
MaxPen four.
terapined four.
SOOPOO three.
romes three.
DarkOv three.
rxwine three.
TomG two.
kubikulann five!
ams288 six!
EvenBob seven!
BillRyan - nine!
WatchMeWin - eleven!
Boz - fifteen!
ZenKinG- sixteen!
The last seven show a blatant disregard for the rules with 5 - 16 infractions each.
I am glad to see I am not on the list.
I do believe that Darkov guy, whoever he is, deserved it. He is nothing but a blatant arrogant prick.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/21601-suspension-list-archive/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/30764-suspension-list-archive-2/#post644844
we arrive at:
PokerGrinder now has three suspensions.
HotBlonde four.
Axelwolf four. (not counting one in which he volunteered to do the time for someone else)
MaxPen four.
terapined four.
wizardofnothing (various incarnations) four.
gr8player four.
Beethoven9th / Beethoven3rd four.
Nareed four.
mrjjj three.
soxfan three.
lojo/lojo1 three.
mkl654321 three.
SOOPOO three.
romes three.
DarkOv three.
rxwine three.
laymedown three.
mcallister3200 two.
TomG two.
kubikulann - five!
ams288 - six!
EvenBob - seven!
BillRyan - nine!
Nathan (various incarnations) - nine!
WatchMeWin - eleven!
JerryLogan (including in his various incarnations) - twelve!
ahigh - thirteen!
Buzzard (various incarnations) - fourteen!
Boz - fifteen!
ZenKinG - sixteen!
Quote: GialmereThe mysteries of life. Once politics was banned, had we started a pool on what type of thread would now cause the most suspensions, a Happy Birthday thread wouldn't have even cracked my top 50 list of what to bet on.
I would have offered pretty good odds a year ago that this place would not devolve into a voodoo system support center.
Times change I guess.🤣
