Sale of wizard of odds/vegas websites
Quote: AxelWolfPeople with money are statistically happier. People who are happy live longer.
Then there's the better heath care stuff.
My father told me money can't buy happiness...but there is a hell of a lot of it out there for rent. I never forgot that.
Quote: BozMy father told me money can't buy happiness...but there is a hell of a lot of it out there for rent. I never forgot that.
We'll see how it plays out by I think LCB way overpaid for the sites. 2 things can happen in my opinion...1. Both sites stay pretty much as is and they realize very little value in active users that enjoy statistics, advantage play, dissecting promotions and has very little confidence in the honest of online casinos.
2. They start to change the focus of the sites from honest evaluation of games and promotions to pushing online casinos and bonuses. If that happens, most of the active user leave.
The popularity of the two sites resides in their independent and honest nature. The difference in Mike as a person and someone who pushes Casino links even when the casinos aren't 100% honest with their service is the difference between night and day. I'd say there is even a chance Mike doesn't stay around long. I think his character is unquestionable and he would not be a part of anything that is even close to questionable.
ZCore13
Quote: thecesspit
Nor would you ask for your $5 bill back from Red Cross on Tuesday if they announce a $5 million donation from Bill Gates on Sunday.
I would, screw the red cross
Why would you think anything other than that will happen ?
Quote: Buzzard" 2. They start to change the focus of the sites from honest evaluation of games and promotions to pushing online casinos and bonuses. If that happens, most of the active user leave. "
Why would you think anything other than that will happen ?
I don't live my life in speculation. When something happens, then I decide what I will do. To speculate what changes, if any, happen to the forum is pointless. Nothing has changed at all so to me nothing is different.
ZCore13
" This is why our forum sections are dedicated to a lot of bonus talk. "
"So what do we do at LCB? We offer an extra bonus if you sign up via our link, or even a no deposit bonus . So whats the problem here? "
Quote: Zcore13We'll see how it plays out by I think LCB way overpaid for the sites.
Why would you say that? I don't have any idea how much the WOO site made in the past, but I would guess it is quite a bit more than the selling price. My guess is the Wizard would suggest they could have made much more with a proper marketing strategy.
all hail the wizard!!!
I'd say its worth it to be perma banned at most casinos :)
Quote: DRichWhy would you say that? I don't have any idea how much the WOO site made in the past, but I would guess it is quite a bit more than the selling price. My guess is the Wizard would suggest they could have made much more with a proper marketing strategy.
agree. I always believe the Wiz can sell the sites and their names for a higher price.
I have my reason, but not going to talk about it here. I am sure the new owner has his reason to pay $2.3M.
Quote: DRichWhy would you say that? I don't have any idea how much the WOO site made in the past, but I would guess it is quite a bit more than the selling price. My guess is the Wizard would suggest they could have made much more with a proper marketing strategy.
Because this isn't the past anymore. Mike already said much of the affiliate money dried up and banner clicks are few and far between. In my opinion the sites have value because of their traffic. WOO is much more valuable than WOV because the visitors are specifically looking for gambling information and are looking for information on specific topics. WOV is way too much of a niche in my opinion to think any type of advertising is going to sway the users to start playing at online casinos. Yes, a small percentage might try, but they would have already done that if they really wanted to
Like I said, we'll see what happens, but to me it's another internet company with more money than it knows what to do with leaving their safe zone of known business and taking a leap into something they misjudged. Pretty common in all aspects of business actually, not just internet.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I don't live my life in speculation. When something happens, then I decide what I will do. To speculate what changes, if any, happen to the forum is pointless.
Exactly. Speculation is useless, just wait and
you'll find out. Speculation is a waste of
energy.
Well, a few years ago a fellow I know who was a prominent blogger on a Las Vegas poker discussion board did lose the soul of his dog in a poker game, per a very similar written contract. And, I guess I too would have been willing to sell the soul of his dog. Thanks for the link. I might find the template for that document useful one day.Quote: rxwineI enjoy the prognosticators and amateur sleuths of the purchase.
Don't forget this though
Maybe more was purchased than you imagine.
Cue (demon laughter.)
As to the purchase price, looking around at the few dozen or so active regular participants, and trying to guesstimate the maximum potential value of marketing to them... that check has cleared, right? Right? Tell us the check has cleared, and then I'll tell you "well played, Sir."
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: Sonuvabish
I also think it is messed up that Wiz asked for donations to run something he sold for a couple mil a mere one month later. Funny how you might hear phrases like "run this out generosity' or 'in dire straits' just before the massive profits in any situation similar to this. Don't we all wish we all would fall on similarly rough times? But I wasn't here for that, nor would I ever have considered donating, so whatever to that.
Gotta agree. There are more than a few of us who feel a sense of community and support that extends to contributing when Mike asked. Quite a few of those people offered to help in prior discussions of things going Tango Uniform for him, which he refused. Why anybody is throwing around their participation or non-participation, or passing judgment on those who made a choice different than they did, I can't fathom, but it ain't "community".
You could consider that those, like I, who used the resources for free, felt it was a no-brainer to provide some kind of support. You could consider that this community knew better than anyone the value of Mike's work and wanted to keep it available and unaffected by outside influences. You could consider that many of the folks on here are themselves personal friends of Mike. But why it's even necessary to continue to bring up on the forum, I don't know. One of those things, maybe, that says more about the poster than Mike.
If you donated and want the money back, a PM to Mike will suffice; he already offered days ago. If you didn't donate, or did and don't want the money back, neither condition needs public verification. All bringing it up from any position at this point does is make Mike feel worse.
oh my god..."But why it's even necessary to continue to bring up on the forum, I don't know." I don't know why we're still talking about either. Was that supposed to change my vague, loosely held opinion? Internet strangers have no effect on my personal opinions, sorry; however if you have technical expertise on something, I am all ears. I was basically agreeing with a post by someone I read thru a link--'nuked member who stalked the forum' or some nonsense; he actually just reported factual information. I didn't include a bibliography because I'm not writing a research paper. Maybe those links were against one of the 5281 rules, which were a proximate cause of my post. They have to close that drama/soap opera loophole in the rules. Next week on "The Forum", someone will say something meaningless off the top of his head, 2 people will attack, and 1 will write a short essay about community-building. Gee Ziz Cry ist.
Let me remind you that AOC is gone, after he melt down. He was possibly the most even-tempered person here. All I know for sure is, based on that, you people made mistakes in how everything was handled, and here you are, still on the attack. For me, you lose credibility when the last guy in the world who would lose it, lost it, and I read "it says more about the poster because he has an opinion that I will try to censor" nonsense. Let things go for godsake, especially when the OP didn't actually care (whatever).
Quote: Sonuvabishoh my god..."But why it's even necessary to continue to bring up on the forum, I don't know." I don't know why we're still talking about either. Was that supposed to change my vague, loosely held opinion? Internet strangers have no effect on my personal opinions, sorry; however if you have technical expertise on something, I am all ears. They have to close that drama/soap opera loophole in the rules. Next week on "The Forum", someone will say something meaningless off the top of his head, 2 people will attack, and 1 will write a short essay about community-building. Gee Ziz Cry ist.
Just don't use the word spin. :-)
Quote: 1BBJust don't use the word spin. :-)
LOL...I know I thought it sounded kinda 'funny' too.
The visitors over at LCB has probably flattened out.
The guys over there made a ton of money convincing people to go for bonuses instead of looking at odds.
For linking online casinos, they probably get a cut of deposits and maybe cut of overall losses of players.
Where else do they get over 2.3 mil.
Due to business flattening out, they tried introducing a reward system, you get chips for posting and visiting.
Probably not getting the bump in business they wanted.
In the business world, if you are not growing, you are dying.
I figure they see the odds site as a portal to get people to their LCB site to keep it growing.
Thing is odds site attracts educated gamblers and gamblers that want to be educated on odds.
LCB players ignore the odds, all they care about is the bonuses.
I'm over at the LCB board to try to convince the admins to post online casino surveys on different games as is done here like the BJ survey.
The response I get for this idea, tepid at best.
The feeling I get is LCB makes a killing helping people lose money at online casinos using the bonus gimmick.
LCB looking for more suckers, they are hoping WOO will increase business at LCB by having a portal to the LCB site.
All the above is just speculation, probably BS.
Quote: Zugayou could be right if you refer to posting your own copyrighted material. Then yes you would own it i think.. but then again i am not an expert in intellectual property ( even tho i went to law school which i quit, so i guess it figures lol ).
Usually all sites/forums have detailed t&Cs written that you are obligated to accept upon registration. And Im sure the part referring to the forum posts is one of the points.
Not that I care about any of my posts because they are unmarketable, but I think you must be saying that the site merely has no obligation to the user to delete posts if asked. Then I'd say we're on the same page.
Quote: DMSCRIt is not about Mike, WoV and the donations if one reads between the lines. It is about their permanent WoV banishment and using a dead un-moderated site to post their grievances. Their bans were direct hits to their bitter fragile egos. Attacking Mike, the donations and the sale of this site are ways for them to achieve some empty moral victory since they enjoy playing the victim in this case. Don't know much of LarryS and his history at WoV but Johno/Carlo/Egalite, LOL. His obsessions and anger issues are beyond entertaining. It goes on and on never stops and mutates to the extremes with the trolling and stalking. Like his daily/weekly baccarat drawdowns that is if he even shows up to a casino like he states.
mrjjj/Ken, LarryS, Egalite/Johno/Carlo etc... it is always the GG folks.
You certainly get "honorable mention" over there. Were you a mod or something?
I agree. Lots of BS. *facepalm*Quote: terapinedThis is my speculation...
[snip]
All the above is just speculation, probably BS.
You obviously don't know about the ways one can make money from a website that gets a lot of traffic.
Quote: terapinedThis is my speculation.
The visitors over at LCB has probably flattened out.
The guys over there made a ton of money convincing people to go for bonuses instead of looking at odds.
For linking online casinos, they probably get a cut of deposits and maybe cut of overall losses of players.
Where else do they get over 2.3 mil.
Due to business flattening out, they tried introducing a reward system, you get chips for posting and visiting.
Probably not getting the bump in business they wanted.
In the business world, if you are not growing, you are dying.
I figure they see the odds site as a portal to get people to their LCB site to keep it growing.
Thing is odds site attracts educated gamblers and gamblers that want to be educated on odds.
LCB players ignore the odds, all they care about is the bonuses.
I'm over at the LCB board to try to convince the admins to post online casino surveys on different games as is done here like the BJ survey.
The response I get for this idea, tepid at best.
The feeling I get is LCB makes a killing helping people lose money at online casinos using the bonus gimmick.
LCB looking for more suckers, they are hoping WOO will increase business at LCB by having a portal to the LCB site.
All the above is just speculation, probably BS.
I agree with everything except for the "probably BS" part. Not there is anything wrong with that. They are very straight up about their business and they are in it to make money. Most of us are. It is no big secret that casinos, land and online are in business to MAKE MONEY. So are those who link up with them.
I think many of us are way too protective of what we have here. Everyone respects Mike and most are happy for him cashing out. But to think things are not going to change and there is anything we can do about it are silly. Sure WOO is the traffic driver, but this site will have to carry the freight as well or it will be gone. Simple business decision and it is the right one for someone who invests in a business.
But the sun will still come up tomorrow and we will be OK.
Quote: Beethoven9thI agree. Lots of BS. *facepalm*Quote: terapinedThis is my speculation...
[snip]
All the above is just speculation, probably BS.
You obviously don't know about the ways one can make money from a website that gets a lot of traffic.
Good old facepalm, why dont YOU explain to the rest of us why its BS and what their plans are?? You seem to have all the answers and love to tell people when they are wrong. And that head of yours must be sore as hell from all the facepalms.
Quote: 1BBYou certainly get "honorable mention" over there. Were you a mod or something?
A mod? Nah. Just one of his many targets for his ongoing desperate psychopath obsessions in trying to beat a negative expectation game.
Jolt that dead board back to life by turning it into a WoV Shrine. The permanent banishment here hit them hard. Always wondered if my biggest fan does what he say he does and his actions and behavior indicate the total opposite. Gotta agree with AxelWolf that baccarat are filled with the strangest and craziest people. Especially those who apply negative progressions and swears to them like religion. LOL.
You got that right. Thank you! :)Quote: BozYou seem to have all the answers
I just like to fight the BS one post at a time, that's all.Quote: Bozand love to tell people when they are wrong
Nope, because you guys have given me lots of practice. lolQuote: BozAnd that head of yours must be sore as hell from all the facepalms.
I find it suspicious your hiatus ended when AX left.Quote: Sonuvabish
I noticed the resurrection here as well. This guy originally surfaced in February, posted like crazy mostly BJ in AC stuff IIRC then on ice since May.Quote: AxelWolfI find it suspicious your hiatus ended when AX left.
Googled "Zuga serb pic" and quickly found the above at link.
Say hello to the new Man Behind The Curtain; not that it really matters, but somehow it is reassuring to associate a face with an internet presence.
some background
Quote: terapinedThis is my speculation.
Agreed :)
Quote: terapinedThe visitors over at LCB has probably flattened out.
Still going strong :)
Quote: terapinedThe guys over there made a ton of money convincing people to go for bonuses instead of looking at odds.
there ya go again. No one is twisting their arm. We offer a service, and also a product if you will. We provide info going with that product, and educate players in the process. The rest is up to them.
Quote: terapined
For linking online casinos, they probably get a cut of deposits and maybe cut of overall losses of players.
Where else do they get over 2.3 mil.
Like it is a big secret that we are affiliates? Man we do run a business and provide one helluva service and value for our visitors.
And that is why we are successful.
Quote: terapined
Due to business flattening out, they tried introducing a reward system, you get chips for posting and visiting.
Probably not getting the bump in business they wanted.
Not that you are right about the reasons of introducing the LCB shop and rewards system ( reasons I already explained ), but so far its been nothing but success.
Quote: terapined
In the business world, if you are not growing, you are dying.
Something I tend to agree with you.
Quote: terapined
I figure they see the odds site as a portal to get people to their LCB site to keep it growing.
Thing is odds site attracts educated gamblers and gamblers that want to be educated on odds.
eeee, wrong again. The plan is to keep the mission of WOO with Mike on board , and monetize the site better using its existing traffic.
Quote: terapined
LCB players ignore the odds, all they care about is the bonuses.
Which part of the : " Latest Casino Bonuses " you do not understand?
As I said in one of my earlier posts, we did not invent the bonus market. The demand was there and will always be there. So not sure I get your beef...
Quote: terapined
I'm over at the LCB board to try to convince the admins to post online casino surveys on different games as is done here like the BJ survey.
The response I get for this idea, tepid at best.
I believe I replied 3 times already ( once here, and twice at LCB ).
For the 4th time, I said it was a good idea and that we will look into introducing the house edge % on casino games to our reviews.
Quote: terapined
The feeling I get is LCB makes a killing helping people lose money at online casinos using the bonus gimmick.
LCB looking for more suckers, they are hoping WOO will increase business at LCB by having a portal to the LCB site.
All the above is just speculation, probably BS.
Help ppl lose their money? Do you see we hold a gun to their heads?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
Since I don't need that service, I don't go there. I stay here.
Since you have kept WoV and WoO open, I say again: good for you. Thanks. I wish nothing but prosperity for you and your family. You've done a good job.
Quote: Zuga
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
This is where you underestimate us americans.
Two of us can make a horse drink water, one holds its head under and the other one sucks on its ass.
Quote: MoscaYou've done a good job.
Boggles the mind.
Wow! Congrats! I'm impressed!! 2.3 million? Really? Good for you, Mike!!!!!!! Very, VERY happy for you!!!!
My stupid little home page brings in about $1,100 each year, in advertising revenue. Prior to last night, I thought that was pretty good. LOL.
Quote: EdCollinsMy stupid little home page brings in about $1,100 each year, in advertising revenue. Prior to last night, I thought that was pretty good. LOL.
Quote: thecesspitHey, I'm happy with the $4 year I get from my page.... that makes it worth about $8.00, I guess!
My point, exactly: That it went for millions, doesn't make it worth millions.
Only, for someone silly enough to pay millions.
And all this time I thought we hired Canadians to do that for us...Quote: petroglyphThis is where you underestimate us americans.
Two of us can make a horse drink water, one holds its head under and the other one sucks on its ass.
Quote: TaraBCMy point, exactly: That it went for millions, doesn't make it worth millions.
Only, for someone silly enough to pay millions.
Actually, if someone paid 2.3 million for it, that's exactly what it is worth at that time to both parties.
Quote:And all this time I thought we hired Canadians to do that for us...
Reminds me of the uproar over in Detroit a while back, before they went bust, when they took our radioactive garbage (for money) across the Ambassador Bridge.
Or, was it just garbage? Don't recall that either.
But, garbage is, well, garbage.
Quote: TaraBCMy point, exactly: That it went for millions, doesn't make it worth millions.
Only, for someone silly enough to pay millions.
There's really no question that the new owners can easily make their money back, the only question is how long it will take. If they're good at monetizing the site, I figure it will take them 4-5 years to get their money back. If they're excellent then it will take even less time. I'm guessing you have no idea what the advertising potential of WoO is. I do, since I sold the ads for it for some years.
Quote: chickenmanAnd all this time I thought we hired Canadians to do that for us...Quote: petroglyphThis is where you underestimate us americans.
Two of us can make a horse drink water, one holds its head under and the other one sucks on its ass.
I don't really see where we would have to pay them? They have always been willing to just help in the past. On the French half you got to watch so they don't just up and eat the whole horse.
Quote: MichaelBluejayI'm guessing you have no idea what the advertising potential of WoO is. I do, since I sold the ads for it for some years.
Thank you for your informed response.
But, what is the value of money, then, beyond purely a human invention with no fixed actual value of its own?
Reminds me of an old guy who asked, "What did I go through all of that hard work for?"
Quote: petroglyphOn the French half you got to watch so they don't just up and eat the whole horse.
Quebecers. Lol.
Now you're talking!Quote: petroglyphQuote: chickenmanAnd all this time I thought we hired Canadians to do that for us...Quote: petroglyphThis is where you underestimate us americans.
Two of us can make a horse drink water, one holds its head under and the other one sucks on its ass.
I don't really see where we would have to pay them? They have always been willing to just help in the past. On the French half you got to watch so they don't just up and eat the whole horse.
Quote: aceofspadesI'm not even allowed to advertise on my website :(
Go over to DT and tell Brandon Phillips to move over. :-)
I can appreciate that it was not an easy decision to sell.
I have been following the WoO for a very long time, long before the WoV and the forum existed.
WoO has always had a huge amount of reliable info on odds for all sorts of games and no other internet resource comes even close.
I think that the Wiz started the whole thing as a hobby which developed into a business.
A business that he run based on his beliefs for integrity and informing the public.
When you can have a business, run it based on your principles and beliefs and do not compromise and still make a good living out of it, it is an amazing feeling.
But like everything in life change is inevitable, everything changes over time, other issues like family become more important and sometimes compromises are necessary.
Still it must have been a difficult thing to sell something that you have developed from Scratch and run for a very long time.
I am pretty sure the new owners understand that the Wiz himself remaining on the site is an absolute must for a success of the websites.
I also believe that at least in the near term the Wiz influence on the way the websites are run will ensure that the main principles of the websites will not change.
Quote: MrVHello, Nikola Zugic.
Googled "Zuga serb pic" and quickly found the above at link.
Say hello to the new Man Behind The Curtain; not that it really matters, but somehow it is reassuring to associate a face with an internet presence.
some background
Would you have a picture of him wearing a hat ?
Quote: AceTwoCongratulations to the Wizzard!!
One z, and a two z!
Quote: ZugaThe plan is to keep the mission of WOO with Mike on board , and monetize the site better using its existing traffic.
If this is true, we should be grateful to someone that WoV didn't get nuked. I doubt it's existing traffic is very compelling.
