Handling a +EV bugged machine?
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2 members have voted
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
I have played machines that were +ev off the top but even with a large edge you can still go long periods of time losing.
Quote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
This site isn't really for advantage players, not sure why you are posting it here, but here goes:
You know how to handle this. It isn't rocket science. Assuming the slot isn't likely to expire for external reasons then you work out the best balance between profitability and detection risk. The cost of making 500K a day instead of 750K is less than the cost of making 0 so prioritize staying under the radar. What does a regular player of this machine look like? Be that. How long do they play, what denominations, what frequency how do they dress etc. Anything that has no ev cost should definitely be emulated and probably even if it does within reason.
Ideally you are looking to be within one standard deviation of the mathematically expected outcome of a regular player over one session, not more than two.
If there are external constraints then you need to be more aggressive, it becomes more likely tournament theory where you do what you need to do to hit your win goal.
Quote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
Not nearly enough information to give you an accurate answer. You mention you can make $750k in a day?!?
Let’s say you do so. What are the chances you get paid, and they say, ‘wow, great day for you! See you tomorrow!’ I’m guessing very small.
Answer me this. If you exploit it today for a mere $3k, would anyone notice? If you do $3k/4k//2k/6k over four consecutive days does anyone notice?
By the way, great find!
Quote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine got shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the bug was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
If someone else goes for lambchops, you get no more wool.
Did not hear of this at resorts world NYC, what are the details?Quote: 100xOdds
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine for shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the big was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
Quote: odiousgambitDid not hear of this at resorts world NYC, what are the details?Quote: 100xOdds
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine for shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the big was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
link to original post
https://nypost.com/2013/07/29/what-a-load-of-crap-gambler-wins-big-by-exploiting-a-software-glitch-at-aqueduct-resorts-world/#:~:text=The%20matter%20was%20reported%20to,Pilots%20Saved%20LivesNYPost.com
I’m generally a drink milk every day rather eat steak once person too. The plays I’ve found have generally turned into milking plays merely cause it wasn’t possible to play that fast. I’m still more curious about the actual play. If it doesn’t require a wager that’s at risk, I’d be worried about the legal ramifications of it.
Is this why Azure went bankrupt? the manufacturer, maybe not Azure, was deemed responsible for losses, the article saysQuote: 100xOddsQuote: odiousgambitDid not hear of this at resorts world NYC, what are the details?Quote: 100xOdds
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine for shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the big was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
link to original post
https://nypost.com/2013/07/29/what-a-load-of-crap-gambler-wins-big-by-exploiting-a-software-glitch-at-aqueduct-resorts-world/#:~:text=The%20matter%20was%20reported%20to,Pilots%20Saved%20LivesNYPost.com
link to original post
Quote: odiousgambit
Is this why Azure went bankrupt? the manufacturer, maybe not Azure, was deemed responsible for losses, the article says
link to original post
Aruze!
Just goes to show Nevada and Atlantic City are legitimate gaming economies with reasonable taxes and everywhere else is really just about a cash grab from the state.
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine got shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the bug was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
Assuming it is not illegal I would take out the absolute maximum each day until it is shut down. No slow play for me because the machine might get removed anyway for no fault of your own.
Quote: DRichQuote: 100xOddsQuote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine got shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the bug was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
Assuming it is not illegal I would take out the absolute maximum each day until it is shut down. No slow play for me because the machine might get removed anyway for no fault of your own.
link to original post
I would probably get help 2- 3 other players Go 24hrs around the clock until they shut it down.
Quote: DRichQuote: 100xOddsQuote: VenthusI recently discovered a bugged machine in the wild (albeit requiring such a specific set of conditions that may make it literally the last remaining bank in the world susceptible to this) that allows you to make bets at absolutely no (immediate financial) risk: A rough estimate suggests it can be exploited for a maximum of about 750k/day... assuming you don't get backroomed and kneecapped after an hour, since it requires a player's card and taking it to extremes would definitely set off red flags.
Making this extra fun is that this machine is the cornerstone of another existing play of mine, that I'd really rather not get shut down, seeing as every other installation I know of has been removed.
So to the world at large: How would you deal with it?
link to original post
Don't kill the golden goose.
When resorts world NYC had the e-craps bug, it got hit hard for $100k in a single session.
And the machine got shut down
But they could have milked it for more since the bug was apparently there since opening day.
(They found the bug a couple years after opening day)
link to original post
Assuming it is not illegal I would take out the absolute maximum each day until it is shut down. No slow play for me because the machine might get removed anyway for no fault of your own.
link to original post
So he said he could make $750k in a day. You would accumulate say $760k of TITO’s after your buy in, walk to the cage and ask for your $760k in cash?
Say thank you, I’ll see you tomorrow same Bat time, same Bat place?
If a machine bleeds $750k in a day, doesn’t SOMEONE get notified?
Quote: DRich
Assuming it is not illegal I would take out the absolute maximum each day until it is shut down. No slow play for me because the machine might get removed anyway for no fault of your own.
That's poor logic. It might get removed. Or you being a pig might get you barred/jail time when a more subtle approach would not. Unless you are certain the chance of the former is higher than the latter it doesn't make sense to risk getting your snout stuck in the trough.
If you slow-play it, it might be removed, it might be fixed, or worse, you might get frozen out as others exploit it.
Quote: billryanA bird in hand, and all that ancient wisdom.
Maybe I'm just an odd one, but I prefer the bush to the hand.
Quote: billryan
If you slow-play it, it might be removed, it might be fixed, or worse, you might get frozen out as others exploit it.
link to original post
One other possibility- getting banned and/or arrested for cheating. Yes I know it's not cheating, but there have been enough cases of casino arrest and 86ing for pushing the buttons available to the player on the outside of the machine, and for what machine they chose to push them on.
Such a case will probably be resolved in the player's favor, but possibly not, plus all the other things that come with being arrested in a casino and put through that system. That doesn't mean I wouldn't play it, but I would be careful and configure myself in preparation for arrest: i.e. no gun, not my real phone, limited bankroll, car parked off property, nothing to indulge in if I indulged.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: billryanA bird in hand, and all that ancient wisdom.
Maybe I'm just an odd one, but I prefer the bush to the hand.Quote: billryan
If you slow-play it, it might be removed, it might be fixed, or worse, you might get frozen out as others exploit it.
link to original post
One other possibility- getting banned and/or arrested for cheating. Yes I know it's not cheating, but there have been enough cases of casino arrest and 86ing for pushing the buttons available to the player on the outside of the machine, and for what machine they chose to push them on.
Such a case will probably be resolved in the player's favor, but possibly not, plus all the other things that come with being arrested in a casino and put through that system. That doesn't mean I wouldn't play it, but I would be careful and configure myself in preparation for arrest: i.e. no gun, not my real phone, limited bankroll, car parked off property, nothing to indulge in if I indulged.
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At these stakes, you might even consider having an accomplice record video of your session, clearly showing you not doing anything hinky. (I'm thinking about starting a slot channel, and this seemed like good B-roll to gather.)
Quote: rainmanI would never cash a tito until it was shut down.
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If it gets shut down, they might not pay you under the rule "malfunctions void all pays and plays".
Quote: billryanIf you cashed out every time it hit a certain amount and you had a few people cashing them out, would anyone or thing detect the pattern?
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With the systems I worked on it could very well be caught the next day but no one was monitoring close enough in real-time to notice unless it was causing numerous handpay jackpots.
It's not technically a player's card, but the machine pays to a casino card that is 1:1 linked to your ID. And this is one of those international places that requires a passport for entry.
Given that this equipment configuration has lasted here for at least two years with no change (and has been removed from other areas for "normal" +EV plays), them removing it for other reasons is probably already in the docket at a low priority, and I don't think anybody else has found it yet... My personal concern is more along the lines of criminal charges, though.
You can answer better ……. What do you think actually happens to you if you get caught on the Casino floor taking advantage of the Casino?
I’m glad it’s you and not me who found this! It feels like ‘theft’ to me and (I think?) I’d not be taking advantage of it.
But now back to the original question…. If I was to take advantage, NO WAY I hit it for 6 figures in a day. I’d max at low 4 figures. Think hard about it overnight, and probably not do it again.
The issue if it's a machine malfunction or fair play in this new case I believe can be decided partially by the fact that when your bet loses, you don't end up losing it and when you win you are paid. I'd be inclined to say this falls under machine malfunction because your bet was never at risk, therefore it is not a valid bet. The whole point of gambling is that you risk something.
Quote: SOOPOO‘Outside the USA’ to me means ‘I don’t want to interact with ANYONE in authority who may not like what I did’.
You can answer better ……. What do you think actually happens to you if you get caught on the Casino floor taking advantage of the Casino?
I’m glad it’s you and not me who found this! It feels like ‘theft’ to me and (I think?) I’d not be taking advantage of it.
But now back to the original question…. If I was to take advantage, NO WAY I hit it for 6 figures in a day. I’d max at low 4 figures. Think hard about it overnight, and probably not do it again.
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You will never make any money in advantage gambling if you don't have the balls to shove the money out.
And "outside the USA" often means "they have proper regulation". It depends where you are talking about.
Quote: Venthus
Given that this equipment configuration has lasted here for at least two years with no change (and has been removed from other areas for "normal" +EV plays), them removing it for other reasons is probably already in the docket at a low priority, and I don't think anybody else has found it yet... My personal concern is more along the lines of criminal charges, though.
With as valuable as this potentially is, why don't you consult an attorney in the jurisdiction and get their opinion about the actual legality of it.
Spending a few thousands of dollars to potentially make $750k a day seems justifiable.
14ity of it.
