Sale of wizard of odds/vegas websites
I have gambled online at one of the sites but I wouldn't click here to get there, since it is already in my browser and pops up after typing in two letters...so the ads have no impact on me in that I am not playing because of them. When I was thinking it would help the Wizard to go to amazon.com via this site, I would be more likely to do it because of the position he was in; now that he is well taken care of it is not really important to me to use the links.
The seal of approval? I think the way it is presented makes it look as if these sites have been approved since 1997; I think that makes it look more significant than it really is...I would have the WoO symbol and then the casino approval date below it would depict what has gone on more accurately.
Quote: RonCThe seal of approval? I think the way it is presented makes it look as if these sites have been approved since 1997; I think that makes it look more significant than it really is...I would have the WoO symbol and then the casino approval date below it would depict what has gone on more accurately.
Yes, as it is it implies that MS has known of and approved / recommended ALL of the ads "since 1997."
I assume that is not accurate, as the sites probably weren't in existence then and if they were, I doubt that he ever "approved" them publicly.
Why not just delete the "since 1997" language?
The Good Housekeeping seal says, "Since 1909" and I doubt anyone thinks the products endorsed date from that date.
Quote: chickenmanI can't agree that one jumps from the "Since 1997" on the Wizard's seal to the casinos approval since then.
The Good Housekeeping seal says, "Since 1909" and I doubt anyone thinks the products endorsed date from that date.
I don't think it matter much anymore anyway as "The Wizard of Odds approval" is now cheapened. When it was him reviewing the site with no outside influences involved and only the most reputable and highest quality casinos getting that seal, it was valuable to me and I would use that in a decision. That is not the case any longer and it has lost its value to me.
ZCore13
Quote: chickenmanI can't agree that one jumps from the "Since 1997" on the Wizard's seal to the casinos approval since then.
The Good Housekeeping seal says, "Since 1909" and I doubt anyone thinks the products endorsed date from that date.
Just read the language as one continuous, uninterrupted stream: "Wizard of Odds Approved Since 1997."
That certainly is one way to look at it.
Perhaps one could delete the word "approved" and leave "since 1997" in place, leaving "Wizard of Odds - Since 1997."
Now, if they start flashing, jumping around, following me as I scroll down the page, etc, I might change my mind.
Valid points.Quote: MrVJust read the language as one continuous, uninterrupted stream: "Wizard of Odds Approved Since 1997."
That certainly is one way to look at it.
Perhaps one could delete the word "approved" and leave "since 1997" in place, leaving "Wizard of Odds - Since 1997."
Quote: SonuvabishIn what way? Do you think people are going to click on the ads and lose gambling in the tune millions of dollars? What am I missing?
people lose money when gambling yes.
Quote:Sleeping, upsetting people, speeding, demanding my cable/internet bill be reduced, eating pizza, anonymously texting escorts, counting cards without being able to blend in.
Do you have any suggestions as to how my talents can serve me better?
Im afraid u r on ur own...
Quote: MrVYes, as it is it implies that MS has known of and approved / recommended ALL of the ads "since 1997."
I assume that is not accurate, as the sites probably weren't in existence then and if they were, I doubt that he ever "approved" them publicly.
Why not just delete the "since 1997" language?
I beg to differ.
It "implies" that only if you want it to imply that.
What it actually means is that WOO has been there since 1997. Simple as that. No other hidden meaning or hidden messages.
FYI :" This site was born on June 19, 1997. At first it was titled Mike's Gambling Page...."
https://wizardofodds.com/site/about/
Quote: SonuvabishSleeping, upsetting people, speeding, demanding my cable/internet bill be reduced, eating pizza, anonymously texting escorts, counting cards without being able to blend in.
Do you have any suggestions as to how my talents can serve me better?
Yup.
Quote: ZugaI beg to differ.
It "implies" that only if you want it to imply that.
What it actually means is that WOO has been there since 1997. Simple as that. No other hidden meaning or hidden messages.
FYI :" This site was born on June 19, 1997. At first it was titled Mike's Gambling Page...."
https://wizardofodds.com/site/about/
Begging to differ doesn't change the perception others have of your product. Your opinion is that it does not look like things have been approved since 1997; several people here, myself included, feel that the way it is designed seems to say that. If it was organized differently, it might not seem that way those folks. The Good Housekeeping seal does say 1909 but the font and placement are much different and it also contains the warranty information on the edges.
The Good Housekeeping seal also has versions that date the approval.
I do get what it really means; my comment was only about how it looks to me at first glance. That is how most customers form their opinion of things.
So how have your results been with negotiations on your cable bill?Quote: SonuvabishIn what way? Do you think people are going to click on the ads and lose gambling in the tune millions of dollars? What am I missing?
Sleeping, upsetting people, speeding, demanding my cable/internet bill be reduced, eating pizza, anonymously texting escorts, counting cards without being able to blend in.
Do you have any suggestions as to how my talents can serve me better?
Quote: SonuvabishWhy does everyone keep saying the other site has value? Yes, it gets more traffic. Yes, more people go there to learn how to play casino games. Is that why? I think an online gambler would more likely to visit here than there, proportionally anyway. If someone's gonna piss away money without getting any entertainment value or intending to profit, why would they look up the mathematically optimal strategy? Instead of lighting your whole bank account on fire, you light each dollar on fire, one at a time? I think people use that site mainly cuz they don't wanna get jacked when they go to a casino with friends. People like me used it to understand EV and counting. Online? I'm not seeing it. I need a walk-thru.
I believe it was written on this forum by Wizards former marketing guy that the WOO site was doing close to $500,000 a year in ads in the past. I think the current owners think they can achieve at least that much monetization with their methods. I definitely think they can based on the search engine positioning that WOO gets.
I personally don't see this site doing very much revenue but sure hope I am wrong as i would like to see the new owners succeed.
Quote: 1BBThey don't bother me either. I even clicked on them. That ClubUSA site has a pretty good list of winners.
They are adblocked for me now.
Even after allowing for my opinion that > half those attracted to it tend to be functionally equivalent to spoiled emotionally troubled eight to twelve year olds, who are therefore among the most gullible and impulsive technical "adults" on the planet that are amazingly endowed with and allowed to spend money without adult supervision, I was still surprised at the reported price, and don't really understand the valuation and revenue stream that implies. But then, I don't have to in order to choose to enjoy occasionally contributing and/or receiving some of the free content in it, or not, as it suits me at the moment.Quote: ZugaWell we did buy the site because we saw the potential in its better monetization. So thats why... :)
Welcome to the unique pleasures of a largely American audience, where in a gathering of 100 random people about two or three of them really do stuff, eighty or so of them mostly whine, snivel, and complain about people who actually do things, and around a dozen of them will be too drunk or stoned to do either.Quote: ZugaFind something you are good at, and then commit to it 16hrs/day for 7 years :)
Quote: onenickelmiracleI don't like to complain, but the logo, "Wizard of odds approved since 1997" is misleading no doubt about it. Nobody really cares about site history but implying a site has been shenanigan free since 1997 would impose a false sense of security in a web page business.
I don't have a problem complaining. It is intended to be misleading. But definitely not unexpected, that's for sure !
However isnt the way many of the online casinos conduct credit card transactions by changing amounts to odd numbers and billing them under some other business against US banking reguations, or is this a "gray" area? If it isnt illegal, at least here in the states, why can you only use certain cards and are they not billed as what they are? And why do winnings get paid from foreign banks that cost the user time and money to cash?
Quote: Boz
However isnt the way many of the online casinos conduct credit card transactions by changing amounts to odd numbers and billing them under some other business against US banking reguations, or is this a "gray" area? If it isnt illegal, at least here in the states, why can you only use certain cards and are they not billed as what they are? And why do winnings get paid from foreign banks that cost the user time and money to cash?
It isn't illegal for a player to gamble on-line, but rather, for a United States bank to process a transaction involving an on-line casino. I forget whether it is VISA or MasterCard (I think the latter) but one of the two won't allow the transaction at all and the casinos make no attempt to process that card. Presumably, with the other type of credit card, I think they use some other kind of business when processing the payment (i.e. deposit into the casino) so that it doesn't get flagged by the card processor. The one time I did make a deposit, I think it came up as some sort of woodworking book, or something along those lines.
Winnings get paid from foreign banks because, again, the gambling is not illegal but the United States bank transacting with the on-line casino is illegal. In other words, they can't accept deposits into the account from them, either. Rather than sending the money Western Union, (or whatever, and some casinos do have wire services available) so they use the foreign payment sites which take a fee for their services, much like Western Union or many electronic money transfer options do. This fee is higher than usual because, if it is one of only a few withdrawal methods from an on-line casino, the person receiving the payment is something of a captive market. I'd also not be surprised if the on-line casino doesn't get a kickback from each transaction.
EDIT: FTR, I'm not advocating that anyone actually do that.
1997, that's not misleading. Or 1997-2014
and change it every year.
Quote: HunterhillSo how have your results been with negotiations on your cable bill?
I recently cancelled my cable because I got sick of calling them and didn't like their offer (don't watch much anyway). But I got a couple years of HBO free. I'm damn good, don't you doubt it. My internet bill has been 50% off for the last few months by default. This month it will be $4; it was $0 a few months ago.
Quote: Zcore13I don't think it matter much anymore anyway as "The Wizard of Odds approval" is now cheapened. When it was him reviewing the site with no outside influences involved and only the most reputable and highest quality casinos getting that seal, it was valuable to me and I would use that in a decision. That is not the case any longer and it has lost its value to me.
ZCore13
I am going to have to regretfully agree with this statement. Despite rationales to the contrary, it has been decided that stamp is clearly and irrefutably deceptive. If it is meant to communicate that the WOO site came into being in 1997, as Zuga suggests, then it should say Established or EST, not Since. Since apparently refers to, or connects from, approved because it is an adverb. Established refers to Wizard of Odds because it is an adjective. Although it's not really a sentence, this is undeniable. This is either a grammatical error or purposeful.
Note to Zuga: if you put ads at the top of the page and between posts it wouldn't bother me. All over the Internet websites have ads at the top and integrated with content and no one complains. I have ads at the top of my pages and integrated with content as well and no one complains.
Zuga, you have a tough crowd here.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Note to Zuga: if you put ads at the top of the page and between posts it wouldn't bother me..
You hear that, Zuga? It wouldn't bother Mendelson. You're clear to do it now, cuz whether he's comfortable is what matters. That's gotta be the most self-important post I've ever read.
Good thing someone knew this about ads. Obviously, Zuga didn't have the budget for that kind of research. Who woulda thought that ads in the middle of the screen woulda been harder to ignore than ones not on the screen?
Question: What about having ads, but having them on paper in your living room as opposed to on the website, but telling people on the website about the ads in your living room? Would that increase revenue?
Quote: BuzzardI don't have a problem complaining. It is intended to be misleading. But definitely not unexpected, that's for sure !
What a bunch of BS! But definitely not unexpected slander, that's for sure!
Quote: AlanMendelson
Note to Zuga: if you put ads at the top of the page and between posts it wouldn't bother me. All over the Internet websites have ads at the top and integrated with content and no one complains. I have ads at the top of my pages and integrated with content as well and no one complains.
Zuga, you have a tough crowd here.
Yes it is something we are contemplating. However this is just the test phase and we will take it from there. No rush. :)
Quote: SonuvabishYou hear that, Zuga? It wouldn't bother Mendelson. You're clear to do it now, cuz whether he's comfortable is what matters. That's gotta be the most self-important post I've ever read.
Hey and here I thought this was about you? And how you hate the ads?
Quote: Sonuvabish
Question: What about having ads, but having them on paper in your living room as opposed to on the website, but telling people on the website about the ads in your living room? Would that increase revenue?
You are forgetting one thing. This IS my new living room ( tho I would call it the workroom ) . And I am decorating it the way I think it's best so it drives more equity.
And you are a guest here, and since you are eating and drinking here for free then in all honesty i do not get your beef.
P.S.
Ill try to make this as clear as possible. The ads/promotions are here to stay. Whether in this shape or in some other form is yet to be decided.
And you are FREE to ignore them. :)
cheers
Zuga
Quote: Zuga
Hey and here I thought this was about you? And how you hate the ads?
LOL.
No beef with you, Zuga. I just hate ads and like to complain, in general...and also hate/like to make fun of comments by others I personally deem stupid. Don't take any of my comments as anger towards you for trying to make money, that's certainly not the case. Unless you find it inappropriate and tell me so, I will probably complain about new ads in the future.
As for the 'since 1997', I do genuinely think that is deceiving. The word 'since' is inappropriate and also replaceable, I think. That is an assessment, not a hate-filled utterance.
Instead of asking for money, what if the Wizard put these ads in the forum? I'm sure there would be some grumbling but would it be on the level that we have here or are some just mad that the site got sold? Has even one DT member complained about that prominent ad at the top of the home page?
Like it or not this is a business and businesses must generate income. I don't go to the store and complain about ads. Those ads are what bring me to the store and inform me of a deal. We all get set in our ways and we all resist change but not all change is bad. I'm keeping an open mind.
To investigate, I checked the WOO site, looking for any announcement of the sale, or even any reference to the fact that a sale had occurred.
I saw nothing, but perhaps I overlooked / missed it?
For example, in the "About" section, where one might logically suspect some reference would be made that the site is no longer the property of MS, but of a third party, nothing was stated: see .
The implication is that the new owner hopes to keep the fact of his ownership hidden, which is certainly understandable from a business point of view.
I'm just pointing out that the fact of the sale to a new owner seems to have been hidden or certainly downplayed, for obvious reasons.
Quote: MrVI saw nothing, but perhaps I overlooked / missed it?
The internet casino reviews all have this qualifying statement to indicate the partnership.
This review was written in partnership with LatestCasinoBonuses.com. LCB is enthusiastically endorsed by the Wizard as a site you can trust to provide honest reviews of Internet casinos.
Quote: SonuvabishYou hear that, Zuga? It wouldn't bother Mendelson. You're clear to do it now, cuz whether he's comfortable is what matters. That's gotta be the most self-important post I've ever read.
Good thing someone knew this about ads. Obviously, Zuga didn't have the budget for that kind of research. Who woulda thought that ads in the middle of the screen woulda been harder to ignore than ones not on the screen?
Question: What about having ads, but having them on paper in your living room as opposed to on the website, but telling people on the website about the ads in your living room? Would that increase revenue?
Sonuvabish
Member since: Feb 5, 2014
Threads: 24
Posts: 1172
you have 1k+ posts yet this month is the 1st time I've noticed your posts, mainly because of it's negativity. (here and in the Aligh thread.)
you come across as an unhappy person w/no life.
pls go seek help b4 posting again.
thx
Quote: MrV
The implication is that the new owner hopes to keep the fact of his ownership hidden, which is certainly understandable from a business point of view.
I'm just pointing out that the fact of the sale to a new owner seems to have been hidden or certainly downplayed, for obvious reasons.
Aren't you being a little bit paranoid? You might want to check this link : https://wizardofodds.com/blog/meet-the-new-boss/
Also from Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shackleford : " The Wizard sites were sold on September 19, 2014 for $2.35 million. Purchased by the LatestCasinoBonuses.com Affiliate Network. "
And mind by doing a quick google search you can find a lot of PRs and reports about the sale.
So please do explain what would be the implications and our hopes?
Quote: MrV
I'm just pointing out that the fact of the sale to a new owner seems to have been hidden or certainly downplayed, for obvious reasons.
And what would be those "obvious reasons", please enlighten me
EDIT:
Not to mentioned this very topic about the sale.
Quote: Zugaind something you are good at, and then commit to it 16hrs/day for 7 years :)
From personal experience, that also is no guarantee of success, but good luck there Zuga.
Well, I guess I only made it 16 for 5 but bankruptcy had a way of lowering my enthusiasm.
Quote: 1BBAds are a way of life. Does anyone still read a newspaper? Watch live TV? Go out in public? Are there not ads everywhere? The ads here have not in any way affected my participation in this forum.
Instead of asking for money, what if the Wizard put these ads in the forum? I'm sure there would be some grumbling but would it be on the level that we have here or are some just mad that the site got sold? Has even one DT member complained about that prominent ad at the top of the home page?
Like it or not this is a business and businesses must generate income. I don't go to the store and complain about ads. Those ads are what bring me to the store and inform me of a deal. We all get set in our ways and we all resist change but not all change is bad. I'm keeping an open mind.
I agree.
Quote: ZugaAnd what would be those "obvious reasons", please enlighten me
MS has credibility and respect in the Las Vegas area.
So far as I know, you don't; you're essentially unknown and focus on online gambling.
Were everyone who clicks on the sites to see an announcement that MS no longer owns the sites, those familiar with MS and his reputation may well conclude that the brand has become diluted, his credibility has been compromised, and that the information on the sites thereby suspect to some degree.
For example, your ads on the banner below list several online casinos, and until the sale MS only endorsed Bovada, but now several others have earned his Wiz-keeping seal of approval?
The fear is that in exchange for pieces of silver MS has sold his objectivity.
The fear is that the new owner will reshape the focus of the sites from brick and mortar casinos to online gambling, which quite frankly is the antithesis of that which MS built his reputation on: advantage play.
The fear is that due to the terms of the sale contract, MS will be constrained from telling it the way he really sees it.
Quote: MrVMS has credibility and respect in the Las Vegas area.
So far as I know, you don't; you're essentially unknown and focus on online gambling.
Were everyone who clicks on the sites to see an announcement that MS no longer owns the sites, those familiar with MS and his reputation may well conclude that the brand has become diluted, his credibility has been compromised, and that the information on the sites thereby suspect to some degree.
For example, your ads on the banner below list several online casinos, and until the sale MS only endorsed Bovada, but now several others have earned his Wiz-keeping seal of approval?
The fear is that in exchange for pieces of silver MS has sold his objectivity.
The fear is that the new owner will reshape the focus of the sites from brick and mortar casinos to online gambling, which quite frankly is the antithesis of that which MS built his reputation on: advantage play.
The fear is that due to the terms of the sale contract, MS will be constrained from telling it the way he really sees it.
I agree w/Zuga.. you are being a bit Paranoid.
I can't see the wiz selling out his reputation.
I also don't see the Wiz signing a contract that makes him endorse sketchy sites.
tho I do agree the 'wizard of approval since 1997' seal can be conscrewed as endorsing the sites in the ads since 1997.
as someone suggested, 'EST 1997 instead of 'Since 1997' might be better.
I am not stating that the above are realities, only my fears.
Perhaps I am unduly paranoid.
But if I have such concerns, might it not be reasonably foreseeable that others might have the same concerns?
I wish the new owner nothing but success, and I hope MS continues to be the guiding light here.
out of curiousity, do you have a 'Plan B' for Wizard of Vegas if the ads on this site doesn't generate $?
ie: Shut it down and move the forum to Wizard of Odds?
Good one! I assume was intentional...Quote: 100xOddscan be conscrewed
Quote: MrVMS has credibility and respect in the Las Vegas area.
The fear is that due to the terms of the sale contract, MS will be constrained from telling it the way he really sees it.
Perhaps this is something that is best worried about by MS, his attorney, and his agent?
You buy the place you get to do with it as you please. I have to say Zuga has showed a multitude of times more patience with some of the folks here than I would had I been the buyer, and for the record I did have to manage a purchase of a competitor once and know just how much kid gloves need to be used.
How much does the sale affect an average user like myself? Lets see, ads at the bottom of the page. Occasionally a minor distraction but no more than a color scheme change. Do the ads affect me? I am already a player at Bovada so am not going to re-sign with them. I can assume Wizard and Zuga made a deal on that stream of income, but honestly it is NOMFB so I give a big "who cares."
So seriously, why does it matter? Our site is still here and the only thing I would ask is if Zuga were to kill it to allow us some notice so anyone who wants to keep tabs could do so. Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy a free service. I ask others to ask themselves why so much matters to them?
Can you give an example ?
Ads are part of life like others have said. We had a free ride for a long time and were lucky it was that way because of Mike. He cashed out and did what 99% of us would have done with the offer.
Quote: Buzzard" I have to say Zuga has showed a multitude of times more patience with some of the folks here than I would had I been the buyer. "
Can you give an example ?
Pretty much any reply he has made in this thread for starters.
To play blackjack, I first had to sign up. Filled out all the info, used name Buzzard and password here, added
all info name address gmail all that.
And got this response : " Player Already Exists " ? ? ?:
Quote: BuzzardINTERESTING : Decided to verify Las Vegas USA claim that they offer better odds than land based casino's in Las Vegas.
To play blackjack, I first had to sign up. Filled out all the info, used name Buzzard and password here, added
all info name address gmail all that.
And got this response : " Player Already Exists " ? ? ?:
I don't think it's a stretch that someone has already used the name "Buzzard". The password has nothing to do with it. It's the user name that is not available.
ZCore13
Quote: BozAnd while I dont speak for them, I am sure if any of us had a better idea on how to make money off the site, they would be open to offers to buy it.
I'd offer about $4,000 or $5,000 for this site. Give it a year or so and Mike will probably own it again.
ZCore13
