Sale of wizard of odds/vegas websites

Quote: AZDuffman

Pretty much any reply he has made in this thread for starters.

So you would have ignored any criticism or just bounced anybody who criticized you. An admirable plan of action, I must say !

Quote: Buzzard

So you would have ignored any criticism or just bounced anybody who criticized you. An admirable plan of action, I must say !

You are understanding me backwards, I would have said, "I bought it, it is mine to do with as I please."

The attitude of many here is why I will never buy a house subject to a HOA. Some users here are acting like a bunch of busybodies that think they have the power to tell someone else how to decorate and run their business.

Quote: Buzzard

INTERESTING : Decided to verify Las Vegas USA claim that they offer better odds than land based casino's in Las Vegas.

To play blackjack, I first had to sign up. Filled out all the info, used name Buzzard and password here, added
all info name address gmail all that.

And got this response : " Player Already Exists " ? ? ?:

That's the handle I have been using to hide my gambling from my wife, Josie.

Quite a bit of difference in telling someone how to run his business versus commenting on how it is being run.

For example notice how each time you sign in, the bottom 4 casino adds re-arrange each time. So that each has a chance to be next to
that WIZARD OF ODDS APPROVED seal of good gambling.

Some people were concerned that might imply the Wiz would handle any valid complaint with those, like he did before with Bovada !

A lot of consumers will go to Canisomeister , via link on Wiz of Odds to check ranking before deciding to play at a casino. They will not find Las Vegas USA there.

Bovada 7.0 Lucky Red 8.2 Club USA not listed. But click on it and it's really Club World with an excellent 8.4

I think it's a mistake not to have Club World on the banner below. I know Zuga, it's my opinion only.

Quote: petroglyph

That's the handle I have been using to hide my gambling from my wife, Josie.

If you Josie is like mine, you have a WINNER !

Quote: MrV

The fear is that the new owner will reshape the focus of the sites from brick and mortar casinos to online gambling, which quite frankly is the antithesis of that which MS built his reputation on: advantage play.

This is commonly cited, but I've rarely seen much that WoO has done to promote Advantage Play. It promotes how to play the games the -best- way and looking at the mathematics behind the game. There's very few AP plays on the site, but 100's of very useful pages telling you the Expected Value of games, and how to achieve that EV with correct play.

And that's the service he's offered for years and is worth something...

WoV has had more about Advantage Play, for sure. And about three hundred times more about cockamamie betting 'systems' which start with 'I know I can't beat the house edge, but....'.

Maybe I am being paranoid, but I have a question in regard to the language at the bottom right of the banner ads, which states: "My other sites: Wizard of Odds Wizard of Macau" © 2009-2014 Michael Shackleford "

As the site has been sold, then the copyright was sold too, and that being the case, wouldn't it be correct to list the name of the new owner as the current copyright holder?

In the future, just PM your concerns to me. As Zuga's representative, I will have our legal department look into that matter and will advice you of their findings.

Respectfully, Buzzard

Quote: Buzzard

If you Josie is like mine, you have a WINNER !

Apologies Stew, I was ribbing you about using your handle to online gamble.

My brides name isn't the same as your wonderful woman's is. But the fact that my wife chose me after all her suitors is proof, at least to me, that angels do indeed roam this earth.

45 years married. Used to add healthy as a horse. Forgot horses die too. LOL

Quote: MrV

For example, your ads on the banner below list several online casinos, and until the sale MS only endorsed Bovada, but now several others have earned his Wiz-keeping seal of approval?

The fear is that in exchange for pieces of silver MS has sold his objectivity.

The fear is that the new owner will reshape the focus of the sites from brick and mortar casinos to online gambling, which quite frankly is the antithesis of that which MS built his reputation on: advantage play.

The fear is that due to the terms of the sale contract, MS will be constrained from telling it the way he really sees it.

The guarantee for the, "Wizard of Odds Approved," affiliate links remains the same as it was with Bovada:

https://wizardofodds.com/advertising/policy/

Quote:

With any casino we promote, if you click through an ad on this site, which leads to opening an account, as evidenced by an affiliate code in the link to the casino, then we will stand behind you. If you ever have a dispute with a casino and are a confirmed “Wizard” player, then we will try to help. We do ask that you try to work out the problem yourself first, and only request assistance from us as a last resort.

That having been said, this site and WoO may advertise casinos without the Wizard of Odds Seal of Approval for which this protection shall not apply, but it applies to any that bear such seal.

At the time that the Wizard endorsed Bovada, I don't think that is because he found Bovada to be the ONLY reputable on-line casino, as he occasionally discussed AP at other on-line casinos, but I imagine that the exclusivity arrangement with Bovada was, at the time it was made, in the mutual best interest of both parties.

The sale of WoO/WoV/LA/WoM, in turn, is also in the best interest of the parties involved as is advertising for multiple on-line casinos.

It's a business decision, I'd assume, just like advertising only for Bovada, at the time the site did that, was a business decision.

Quote: Zcore13

I'd offer about $4,000 or $5,000 for this site. Give it a year or so and Mike will probably own it again.


ZCore13

I tend to doubt it, I'm sure there was a non-compete clause somewhere in the sales agreement, though I obviously don't personally know. In any case, even if the new owners were amenable to selling WoV back to him, he probably couldn't advertise for on-line casinos due to the non-compete clause. Thus, the site could not generate revenue, therefore, there'd be no reason to buy it.

Quote: Buzzard

Some people were concerned that might imply the Wiz would handle any valid complaint with those, like he did before with Bovada !

A lot of consumers will go to Canisomeister , via link on Wiz of Odds to check ranking before deciding to play at a casino. They will not find Las Vegas USA there.

I'd assume that is what that means, it's still on the advertising policy on WoO.

Quote: Mission146

I tend to doubt it, I'm sure there was a non-compete clause somewhere in the sales agreement, though I obviously don't personally know. In any case, even if the new owners were amenable to selling WoV back to him, he probably couldn't advertise for on-line casinos due to the non-compete clause. Thus, the site could not generate revenue, therefore, there'd be no reason to buy it.

It doesn't have to make a lot of money for him to buy it back. This forum is a hobby, not a stand alone business.

For those that are the right age, some might remember an online business I was involved with. It originally was called Cases Ladder, then later the Internet Gaming League (igl.com). It was huge. It allowed players to play tournaments and "ranked games" using an all online reporting system for hundreds of online games. They made decent money selling gold (and eventually silver, platinum and diamond) memberships. Some big media company thought they could do it better and bought the site for a lot of money. If I remember correctly, Case (the original owner) bought it back for a huge discount a year or two later. It's pretty common. Its very rare anyone runs a business or site or hobby better than the founder.

ZCore13

" I'd assume that is what that means, it's still on the advertising policy on WoO. " Key word is ASSUME, I expect better from you.

Any chance those that just barely miss, oh so close, the Wizard seal of approval, can you put a SKUNK next to them. Just in case somebody ASSUMES any casino on a WIZ site meets the highest standards !

Quote: Buzzard

" I'd assume that is what that means, it's still on the advertising policy on WoO. " Key word is ASSUME, I expect better from you.

Any chance those that just barely miss, oh so close, the Wizard seal of approval, can you put a SKUNK next to them. Just in case somebody ASSUMES any casino on a WIZ site meets the highest standards !

If I saw a skunk, I'd probably click.

Oh, not to worry there Mr. Boz, 'cause I'm about to take that potential hornet's nest firmly in both hands and place it right squarely on top of my own head. Because if there's anyone (in the U.S.) who doesn't know this, it needs to be said. Plainly. Maybe not dwelt on, but definitely said, clearly, without any bullspit fou-faw, so they can know what they're up to when they choose whatever they choose.

Quote: Boz

However isnt the way many of the online casinos conduct credit card transactions by changing amounts to odd numbers and billing them under some other business against US banking reguations, or is this a "gray" area? If it isnt illegal, at least here in the states, why can you only use certain cards and are they not billed as what they are? And why do winnings get paid from foreign banks that cost the user time and money to cash?

Of course. That quacking waddling feathered thing is, in fact, a duck. It is NOT a grey area if the transaction involves someone in the U.S. It is a felony which carries a federal prison sentence for those who choose to engage in the business of processing those payments, and there are people in prison right now for doing exactly that, and will continue to be more as they spring up here and there under different names and phony locations and eventually get busted. I personally know some local individuals who are now felons because they chose to do that.

You're dead-on correct in your supposition of why the identities of those offbeat & relatively expensive "payment processors" and peculiar financial instruments change, and the fees for the simple service of transmitting your money for this seem really high, like many times over as much compared to what it might otherwise be in a transaction like my simple purchase of some goods that were shipped to me from a vendor in Sweden day before yesterday. Part of the rational risk assessment for any U.S. resident getting money to offshore online gambling sites should be that you should know that when you choose to do this you are sending your money and usually some of your financial information to someone who knows very well they are in the business of committing a crime, and quite obviously actively disguising what they are doing in order to do it, and consider whether there's some added non-trivial amount of risk of getting ripped off by such *ahem* "payment processors" just as you would dealing with someone offering to perform some other illegal service.

When anyone points out the obvious on this subject, sometimes online gambling enthusiasts try to fog this issue by confusing the clear illegality of processing those funds with other more ambiguous issues such as whether the player is or isn't doing something they might be personally arrested for by playing on the sites the money is sent to (seems probably not, under most common circumstances, in most states, or it is at least arguably unclear and a reasonable person could conclude you aren't very likely gonna be busted for just playing). But anyone you find doing the sleazy "confusion by changing the subject" game is absolutely positively trying to deceive you, and almost certainly knows damn good and well that they are, and why. It is flatly against the plain language of U.S. law to transmit these payments. Period. No doubt. At all. Plain black letter law, easy to read for yourself. There is no cloud of doubt on the matter of processing payments to offshore gambling sites from the U.S. Here is how the most thick-headed of U.S. online fanatics were handed their "clue" whether they choose to get it or not, as they clicked in to play or check what they thought were their balances:



I'm not saying that to say you or anyone shouldn't do it anyway if you want to. I did, and maybe I will again. If people choose to do that anyway, I have no desire to tell them they should or shouldn't feel wrong or right to make that choice. I had some money (which I kept to a trivially small amount) on deposit with some offshore sites (until they were busted and their assets confiscated by the FBI & US Dept. of Justice and one of their "payment processors" indicted arrested & convicted in a plea deal that involved 'ratting-out' some of those he did business with for more criminal prosecutions). I also have less than zero interest in engaging in one those inevitably juvenile foaming at the mouth rant-fests about whether the laws should or shouldn't be what they are. I plan to respectfully ignore any such thumb-sucking that may follow, giving them the same degree of attention as I do the bathroom habits of my neighbor's cat, and suggest that for your mental health it would wise to do the same if that childish crap breaks out here. Let's just not bullspit about what it is. It is exactly what it plainly appears to be and you sensibly thought it was.

If someone is sincerely in doubt about the status of that kind of payment processing, following the extensive footnoted references here wouldn't be a bad place to start getting an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg

Quote:

United States v. Scheinberg, 10 Cr. 336 (2011), is a United States federal criminal case against the founders of the three largest online poker companies, PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker and Cereus (Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet), and a handful of their associates,[1] which alleges that the defendants violated the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) and engaged in bank fraud and money laundering in order to process transfers to and from their customers.[1]

My guess is WizardofVegas is not why Zuga and company bought the package. WizardofVegas has relatively low traffic. WizardofOdds has traffic that is about 2.5X what WOV gets.

The noise generated by the critics here does not compensate for the low traffic nor create a need for the site.

Be careful, critics.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Zuga is shooting himself in the foot.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Be careful, critics.

If you have to shoot, it's better to shoot for the foot than the head.


EDIT: RIP Buzzard

--- At least you know the love of a good woman. ---

Quote: AlanMendelson

My guess is WizardofVegas is not why Zuga and company bought the package. WizardofVegas has relatively low traffic. WizardofOdds has traffic that is about 2.5X what WOV gets.

The noise generated by the critics here does not compensate for the low traffic nor create a need for the site.

Be careful, critics.

2.5x?!?!

I would have guessed WoO traffic to be a zillion times that of WoV.

Thanks for the facts...DrawingDead! I guess its all about checking ones conscience at the door when you get involved in illegal activities. In some cases it's under reporting of gambling wins to the IRS and in others case it bank fraud. Seems like they are all felonies, its just that some will get you called out on here for a possible suspension for rules violations and others are actively promoted at the bottom of the page. NOTE: Not saying the OWNERS of this site are doing anything illegal, only those who process the transactions that are required to support such business activities. I see it much clearer now.

I am surprised with the lack of ads here or at WOO for latestcasinobonuses.com.

Not that I'm complaining :)

Quote: MrV

I am surprised with the lack of ads here or at WOO for latestcasinobonuses.com.

Not that I'm complaining :)

They probably want to track how much traffic the on-line casino sites are getting from here and WoO, and a link to LCB could throw that off if people sign up for on-line casinos via LCB but only found LCB from the link here.

Quote: AlanMendelson

My guess is WizardofVegas is not why Zuga and company bought the package. WizardofVegas has relatively low traffic. WizardofOdds has traffic that is about 2.5X what WOV gets.

The noise generated by the critics here does not compensate for the low traffic nor create a need for the site.

Be careful, critics.

My guess is WoV gives "community" and that is where it is at on the internet the past 10 years or so. WoO could be built out in so many more ways. A podcast comes to mind. The site is great reference, but honestly after you have read it you don't visit it as much as you "refer" to it.

HOWEVER, perhaps Zuga changes this. Perhaps he gets a podcast going, or he gets Michael to write more articles and even gets that syndicated. If people like it they say, "visit the forum!" for fans. I have heard of places where they get a forum like this and pluck the forum for experts on the podcast. Look at what we have here in expertise and it is not a stretch.

It is all about building brand. If it were me I would go the podcast route with weekly sports handicapping coupled with discussion of a game a week. That could be built out to say 50-100K listeners per week easily. Then when you have that your can sell ads to way more than online links. You might even get actual casino-hotels as advertisers.

Quote: AlanMendelson

My guess is WizardofVegas is not why Zuga and company bought the package. WizardofVegas has relatively low traffic. WizardofOdds has traffic that is about 2.5X what WOV gets.

The noise generated by the critics here does not compensate for the low traffic nor create a need for the site.

Be careful, critics.

I've been alluding to this since the sale. It's almost obligatory for new owners to make changes, to shape the company to fit their philosophy and goals.

Let's see where this forum is in six months.

I suspect that this forum will still exist in six months; why get rid of it?

And if you kill it, what would it be replaced with, if anything?

Sounds like it generates decent traffic.

The only concern I see is that a forum about Las Vegas has no logical nexus to internet gambling, which I understand is the owner's primary focus.

I wonder what percentage of forum members regularly gamble via internet casinos?

Quote: MrV

I suspect that this forum will still exist in six months; why get rid of it?

And if you kill it, what would it be replaced with, if anything?

Sounds like it generates decent traffic.

I think this forum will have the same content but I am betting that there will be some differences in ad placement to to try and drive revenue. They have to make these sites worth the purchase price to them; that kind of investment requires them to make more than just the price paid for it since they also have to take care of the sites now and, I believe, pay the previous owner a salary.

Quote: MrV

The only concern I see is that a forum about Las Vegas has no logical nexus to internet gambling, which I understand is the owner's primary focus.

Maybe have the previous owner crank up a forum as he did this one and Macau--about online gambling,

Quote: MrV

I wonder what percentage of forum members regularly gamble via internet casinos?

I'm betting it is a decent percentage, but who wants to admit it given the legal issues? It may not be "illegal" for us to gamble online but the money transfer issue is murky at best; why put yourself out there just in case someone decides to push the issue?

From what it seems very few REGULARS gamble online. They probably realize the regulars are not their best targets (they will get a few regs who are bonus hunters they will add some CPA money ).

The regulars here add most of discussions including help, advice, humor, drama etc. This attracts the lurkers and newbies who are probably the cash cows that try many new casinos.

I know I checked out of here already, but just can’t resist another closing opinionated statement.

I suspect Michael did and still has a gambling problem. This is why he ended up begging for money, and luckily for him the Serbian investors (cough…cough) think his sites are worth investing in to capitalize on the illegal USA online gaming market. (I'm sure with Mike's newly loaded pockets we'll be seeing a lot more new Royal Flush pictures) Does anyone actually believe that Zugo won enough money AP’ing BJ online out of Serbia, to spend millions of dollars on USA sites to promote illegal USA online gaming? Actually, you can’t blame their actions when you consider the obvious stupidity of the USA government willing to leave the back-door open for such investors; (cough…cough) compounded by the amount of stupid and degenerate USA suckers who are willing to pay whatever additional fees necessary, risk not collecting their winnings, waiting months if not years for any, getting blatantly ripped off, lie to their banks, rigged software, completely un-regulated, and are willing to except if there is a problem only being able to go to the people that got them in trouble in the first place for help, and who just so happen to be in collusion with the casinos. When you talk about stupid Americans; these illegal (like it or not) online gaming assholes deserve the beatings they’ll receive. It’s just a shame these clueless idiots can’t lose there billions of dollars into the USA economy legally and fairly.

Michael is just a puppet with strings for the investors. (cough…cough) He will and has no choice but do exactly what he is told. There are 2.5 million ways to prove that statement is correct. His seal is now obviously meaningless, at least to the people who have been around here. These investors (cough…cough) are not expecting to make any money online off the educated gamblers that have been part of this site forever. But, what there hoping for is that most of the educated people here do hang around and carry on with educated gambling conversations in turn making the gullible (easily deceived or cheated) visitors think it’s safe to play illegally online. All they need and want and paid for is Michael’s name and past sites reputation to sucker in as many USA idiots as possible. Conversations about getting the best you can from land based casinos in the USA and other countries are of no interest and have absolutely no financial gain for this group.

I know Zugo keeps saying if you don’t like it here to just go away. I agree, but I’m sick and tired of these foreigners coming to this country misleading, hiding the facts, and taking advantage of all the idiots that are to stupid and just don’t know any better. You would be surprised how many idiots believe all the advertised casinos are giving you free money to beat them. Just look at those sucker ads at the bottom with thousands of dollars being handed out for free. Now the drive by visitors to this site who stopped by for valid information won’t know that Michael was bought out and his approval / seal are meaningless. These people will be mislead into thinking otherwise, and by the time they realize what really is going on they would have already lined these investors (cough…cough) pockets. Of course they don’t want to change the site around. Bonus fools already know where to go for bonuses. These people are looking for newbie fools.

I also think these investors (cough…cough) under estimate the will and money of guys like Sheldon Adelson, who will certainly do what he can to prevent promoting of online casinos from sites with names like Las Vegas and Macau tied to them. I could only assume it must get ugly and expensive when investors (cough…cough) at this level go to war amongst themselves.

I’m certain these investors (cough…cough) did the math and are assuming they’ll be safe and last long enough to profit before the arms of any USA law enforcement catch up to them, if there even interested anymore.

As far as Mike goes, no one could blame him for selling out. I assume he gambled away everything he had to the point of begging for money, and viewed these investors (cough…cough) as gambling gods who sent the angels down upon him. You would think someone that knows and understands the actual math so well wouldn’t fall victim to the facts.

All I can say is I believe you are wrong about Mike and the gambling problem. And Welcome Back(?) and try Mucinex. Alright, I will say a little more. I also hope the profits from the actual online casinos (NOT THE PEOPLE WHO PROMOTE BONUSES) isnt going to those who behead converted Muslins and Americans.

Quote: 4ofaKind

(cough…cough)... (cough…cough)... (cough…cough)... (cough…cough)...

I like how you repeated your little joke half a dozen times (in case we'd missed it the first several times), so we'd be sure to see it and all know how clever you are.

-MBJ-

P.S. You're welcome to your (completely uninformed, pulled-out-of-your-ass) opinion, but as someone who's actually had extensive financial relations with the Wizard, you don't know jack shit.

won't even bother to reply to 4ofaKind and their paranoid insults.

They got their wish granted ( PLEASE BAN ME ) and they are now permanently banned from WOV.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

... from someone who's actually had extensive financial relations with the Wizard, you don't know jack shit.

Responses like this tend to reinforce the the "one-eyed kings in the land of the blind".

Quote: Zuga

won't even bother to reply to 4ofaKind and their paranoid insults.

They got their wish granted ( PLEASE BAN ME ) and they are now permanently banned from WOV.

I checked Alexa, this site's rank is down to 106,000 from 82,000.
A new post every 10 minutes or so instead of every minute.

The correct way to handle the dissenters is to let their posts accumulate until more persons complain.
At least, don't come off as defensive like MB above.

EDIT: It doesn't help to speak of slander either. If I recall correctly, Zuga threaten that of someone a while back.
Was it Buzzard?

Quote: Kerkebet

The correct way to handle the dissenters is to let their posts accumulate until more persons complain.

What for? So they can come and post more of their paranoid BS again? No thank you.

I am all for constructive discussion and yes criticism why not. But if they gonna post ridiculous conspiracy theories and paranoid rants and insult ppl at the same time, then I will simply show them the door.

Quote: Zuga

Paranoid BS again?

Paranoid seems a bit over the top. Ad hominem?

Remains to be seen how Mr Shackleford handles his new situation, whatever that is.
If he has a problem, it will show up again shortly.

Quote: Kerkebet

Paranoid seems a bit over the top. Ad hominem?

Not really ad hominem, more of de facto reflection at their post.

Quote: Kerkebet

Remains to be seen how Mr Shackleford handles his new situation, whatever that is.
If he has a problem, it will show up again shortly.

Mike gets in a banning mood one day and puts Zuga on a three day suspension just for kicks??? Yeah how about them apples for show!

I'm fairly certain Mike doesn't have a gambling problem. He posts about bets and Plays that have a mathematical advantage. Certainly if he was gambling on negative or crazy stuff in casinos people would notice.

I think people wonder because he passed the tin cup.

Seemed quite out of character, but hey, what do I know?

I think he explained he had money tied up on an offshore account and just spent a fair amount revamping the odds site and profits the (from the very few adds he did have) were down.

4ofakind should be banned for blatant ignorance.
Mike talked many times about losing a huge amount in a
foreign bank. He didn't lose it in a casino.

Quote: EvenBob

4ofakind should be banned for blatant ignorance.
Mike talked many times about losing a huge amount in a
foreign bank. He didn't lose it in a casino.

Yea, its never going to end good for someone who has worked so hard like 4K to expose Online casino scams, posting on a site owned by online casino promoters. Not sure why he bothered to come back when he said he was done a few months ago. Must have been a bad day and he needed to get some stuff off his chest.

Quote: 4ofaK

...blah blah blah...

The first and last paragraphs about Mike being a gambling addict are horse manure and warrant the ban.

Now, that said, the middle 4 paragraphs are worth commenting about. We know that online gaming has a shady reputation at best, and I agree that while it is illegal for banks to process money destined or coming from online gaming, there are workarounds, all of which, are costing time and money and taking away significantly from your overall edge. Until online gambling is legalized in the United States with regulations around charging for payouts, ensuring that people get their payouts on-time, regular auditing, etc, clicking on these ads and playing online is just playing with fire.

And I would also agree that the ads at the bottom are completely misleading, first with the WoO seal (should say established/created/founded, not since), and then with the bonus amount. But I also contend that no newbie coming to this site knows nor cares about Mike's ownership and I would agree that it appears that Mike was bought out and that the seal BELOW makes him look cheap. A simple change of the wording would change that.

But Michael had Bodog as his sponsor for years, and that place, like the links at the bottom of this page, were also not legal. So clearly, there is no moral issue with Michael promoting on-line gambling.

But I can't blame the buyer for trying, and don't fault Michael for selling.

Quote: Deck007

Yes I am back.

After my previous run-in with "beachbumbabsh" I swore off this site. Censuring me because of some unfavourable comments I said about her friend "Ace" in a free and honest discussion is not something which I want to be a part with. But there is a sea change now in this site.

I was stun when the Wizard put out his begging bowl. I have never seen anything like that.

I think I was the first to ask the Wizard if he is a Gambler. Whether he is a problem gambler is subject to much speculation.

That figure of $2.35 purchase price is something I am highly sceptical off. Made great headlines. But in the condition the Wizard was in it appears that a few $K and a steady income would save him from drowning.

The hey days of online gambling sites appear to be over with the passing of the legislation making them illegal. Many have shut down including Blackjackinfo and I notice "kewlj" and maybe some others have migrated to here. It surprises me that the Wizard is carrying on as this is a criminal offence and could result in jail time.

I don't know how "regular" is the Wizard lifestyle and habits. But it appears his problems escalated when he was fired from Sands. On a side note the webmasters/helpers seem to speculate what their contributions did or did not do for the Wizard. I myself think it is the government legislation.

Thanks Wizard I have benefitted greatly from your site. May the good days be just ahead for you.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-17/ron-paul-winner-sheldon-adelson

Internet Gambling Ban: A Winner for Sheldon Adelson, A Losing Bet for the Rest of Us
Ron Paul

Quote: petroglyph

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-17/ron-paul-winner-sheldon-adelson

Internet Gambling Ban: A Winner for Sheldon Adelson, A Losing Bet for the Rest of Us
Ron Paul

Kind of like dealing weed in most states. Common sense says it should be legal and regulated but it still against the law and people do go to jail for breaking the law. Which makes those who sell it criminals.

Quote: Zcore13

It doesn't have to make a lot of money for him to buy it back. This forum is a hobby, not a stand alone business.

For those that are the right age, some might remember an online business I was involved with. It originally was called Cases Ladder, then later the Internet Gaming League (igl.com). It was huge. It allowed players to play tournaments and "ranked games" using an all online reporting system for hundreds of online games. They made decent money selling gold (and eventually silver, platinum and diamond) memberships. Some big media company thought they could do it better and bought the site for a lot of money. If I remember correctly, Case (the original owner) bought it back for a huge discount a year or two later. It's pretty common. Its very rare anyone runs a business or site or hobby better than the founder.

ZCore13

Man I haven't thought about that site in a LONG time. in 2002ish I played a lot of hearts on yahoo with cases. It was a ton of fun. Somehow I accidentally deleted my cases account and they couldn't reactivate it. I didn't feel like playing another 5000 games so I quit.

Wow! It keeps getting better. We now have an ad for a casino offering $5000 in welcome bonuses and is Wizard approved. Why would anyone click on the ones offering only $777 or $3000?

I would not click on any of them. But how much of a scam must a place be to offer 5000 dollars back to a player? maybe people don't think like I do that if it's too good to be true it probably is?


ZCore13