Vegas shutting down again rumor
Quote: TDVegasWhile I am only aware of 2 that have closed...there is little question that there is a world of hurt going around Vegas casinos. Right now and for the foreseeable future....my guess is they are all bleeding cash here in Vegas. The business model under current capacity limits, no international air travel, no shows, no clubs, no concerts and other restrictions...is not workable.
They haven’t shuttered because they have the capital to stay open and don’t want to fire everyone and lose them forever. Closing means letting employees go....which is what all 4 Station properties did. All those employees have been effectively fired, not furloughed. Any re-open on those properties basically starts them from scratch on the hiring process.
I live in Vegas as well...and from a business perspective, Vegas is anything but a “paradise” right now and the foreseeable future. It’s a terrible situation. How long they can continue to operate under these conditions remains to be seen. I suspect as this drags on...more could close permanently until a buyer is found for the property. My guess is that is what is happening with Fiesta, Texas and Palms, looking for an exit sale.
I’m all for honesty...and I commend this Sands COO for telling it like it is here.
https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/07/22/venetian-palazzo-owner-las-vegas-sands-reports-985-million-q-2-loss/5490024002/
I think you summed it up nicely.
MGM made it clear early on that a casino resort needs BETTER than 50% occupancy to be profitable, but the casinos are limited to 50% occupancy... so they have to lose.
It's like playing video poker with a 99.6% paytable. It will grind you down eventually.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI think you summed it up nicely.
MGM made it clear early on that a casino resort needs BETTER than 50% occupancy to be profitable, but the casinos are limited to 50% occupancy... so they have to lose.
It's like playing video poker with a 99.6% paytable. It will grind you down eventually.
I have no idea how long this goes on...but the business model in the current set up does not work. At this point, it’s a time thing. How long can they wait out the losses? I have no idea. Adelson is correct, IMO. The first thing that would have to be lifted is the capacity limits.
I did show the yelp report that some 60% of restaurants that were closed by covid, have shuttered entirely. That is a HUGE number and shows you that those businesses that lack capital to weather the storm....cannot hold on.
I like your 99.6% analogy...but as far as restaurants go, I’d say the payback percentage is a LOT lower. It won’t be long before $0 credits is shown. The casino companies have more capital and credit to hold on....but it’s not endless.
Right now, quoting my friend....”it’s bad, it’s bad, it’s just bad”.
Isn't the lifespan of the typical small business something like three years? And that's without a pandemic.
Edited to add: I looked it up. This from JP Morgan Chase:
51 percent of small businesses are 10 years old or less, and 32 percent of small businesses are 5 years old or less. Roughly a third of new businesses exit within their first two years, and half exit within their first five years.
(1) There are the local places, the real local places that only get local players, like your Skyline, Jerry's Nugget, Joker's Wild, Longhorn / Bighorn, Club Fortune and a few others that aren't coming to mind. They need only local players to survive.
(2) Then there is the places like the Boyd Properties (excluding downtown), the Station properties, Silver Seven, probably a few others that are also often included when listing "local" casinos, because they cater to locals, with decent mailers and they get a lot of local play from locals, but they also get SOME tourist action, especially drive in tourists, coming from Arizona, Cali, Utah (yes the Utahians gamble lol).
(3) Then there is the strip properties. They are all about tourism. The drive in California weekend crowd, and those that fly in from all over the country and world.
Downtown is sort of a mix of #2 and #3.
The Strip and to a lesser extent downtown just cannot survive for long without Air travel getting back to "normal" and people being completely comfortable with air travel, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. These casinos operating at 50% or less is a losing money proposition. It probably won't bankrupt these large corporations, but they are going to have some negative financial quarters for however long it takes to get back to "normal".
The real local casinos in #1, get back to normal quickest. These places can survive on less revenue. They simply lay off some people, close restaurants and table games during slow times. Many of these type casinos already had tables games open only during evening hours. They could even stop being open 24 hours. Silver Sever initially reopened with reduced hours 10am to midnight, but has since gone back to 24 hour....I have no idea why.
Quote: kewljThere really are several distinct las Vegas(es) when you analyze things. .
(1) There are the local places, the real local places that only get local players, like your Skyline, Jerry's Nugget, Joker's Wild, Longhorn / Bighorn, Club Fortune and a few others that aren't coming to mind. They need only local players to survive.
(2) Then there is the places like the Boyd Properties (excluding downtown), the Station properties, Silver Seven, probably a few others that are also often included when listing "local" casinos, because they cater to locals, with decent mailers and they get a lot of local play from locals, but they also get SOME tourist action, especially drive in tourists, coming from Arizona, Cali, Utah (yes the Utahians gamble lol).
(3) Then there is the strip properties. They are all about tourism. The drive in California weekend crowd, and those that fly in from all over the country and world.
Downtown is sort of a mix of #2 and #3.
The Strip and to a lesser extent downtown just cannot survive for long without Air travel getting back to "normal" and people being completely comfortable with air travel, and I just don't see that happening any time soon. These casinos operating at 50% or less is a losing money proposition. It probably won't bankrupt these large corporations, but they are going to have some negative financial quarters for however long it takes to get back to "normal".
The real local casinos in #1, get back to normal quickest. These places can survive on less revenue. They simply lay off some people, close restaurants and table games during slow times. Many of these type casinos already had tables games open only during evening hours. They could even stop being open 24 hours. Silver Sever initially reopened with reduced hours 10am to midnight, but has since gone back to 24 hour....I have no idea why.
Yes..the local casinos may fare better, but a 15% unemployment rate (and the true number is probably higher)....WILL hit the locals casinos. Not everyone hitting those places is retired on a pension and SS.
Now, let’s throw in another knuckleball...the expiration of the additional $600 unemployment “kick”. That is also going to weigh on the locals casinos.
Many strip resorts have already reported that a lot of people are using unemployment debit cards for their vacay. I suspect the same is true for those denizens of locals casinos, sitting on VP machines at 2am in some of our saw dust joints.
The pandemic needs to end....and end sooner than later. My next guess is a wave of evictions in Las Vegas as the $600 bump ends and many go from +$1,000/week to <$400. Don’t even get me started on those blowing the $600 in the casino rather than holding on to it.
In yesterday's email I got a survey from Boyd Gaming and most of the questions were regarding Covid, casino visits, how i felt about Covid safety and INCOME. Questions included how Covid changed my income.
I've had surveys from casinos before but NEVER asking about changes in my income.
Quote: AlanMendelsonTDVegas it's interesting that you mentioned the income stream issue.
In yesterday's email I got a survey from Boyd Gaming and most of the questions were regarding Covid, casino visits, how i felt about Covid safety and INCOME. Questions included how Covid changed my income.
I've had surveys from casinos before but NEVER asking about changes in my income.
Yeah..they are fishing. Teams of marketing departments (likely along with numbers crunchers—-who knows, they are probably engaging actuaries as well) are probably hunting for best course of action right now. They are putting out “feelers” to gauge sentiment, ability to fund gaming, etc.
These casinos are scrambling. It’s akin to flying blind. They don’t know what next week or next month will bring.
Quote: TDVegasYes..the local casinos may fare better, but a 15% unemployment rate (and the true number is probably higher)....WILL hit the locals casinos. Not everyone hitting those places is retired on a pension and SS.
Now, let’s throw in another knuckleball...the expiration of the additional $600 unemployment “kick”. That is also going to weigh on the locals casinos.
Many strip resorts have already reported that a lot of people are using unemployment debit cards for their vacay. I suspect the same is true for those denizens of locals casinos, sitting on VP machines at 2am in some of our saw dust joints.
The pandemic needs to end....and end sooner than later. My next guess is a wave of evictions in Las Vegas as the $600 bump ends and many go from +$1,000/week to <$400. Don’t even get me started on those blowing the $600 in the casino rather than holding on to it.
Having just returned from 5 nights in Vegas, I can honestly say I’ve never seen such trashy people everywhere. Even at the nice resorts (I stayed at Wynn).
So many “healthy” people roaming around on those rentable scooters. When I mentioned this to a dealer he rolled his eyes and said “it’s the unemployment checks.”
Quote: ams288Having just returned from 5 nights in Vegas, I can honestly say I’ve never seen such trashy people everywhere. Even at the nice resorts (I stayed at Wynn).
So many “healthy” people roaming around on those rentable scooters. When I mentioned this to a dealer he rolled his eyes and said “it’s the unemployment checks.”
I live here...probably couldn’t pay me to visit Vegas right now. Between all the restrictions, the vibe, the closed restaurants, closed shows, no concerts, masks required, plexiglass jail set ups...on and on.
Pass.
Vegas is in a very very tough situation....and I don’t see it improving near term.
Social media is littered with complaints right now...running A to Z.
Assuming a significant number of rec gamers (and general tourists) feel the same way, this year is going to be a looong, miserable row to hoe for casino based economies.
Quote: GialmereThe current fun factor at casinos appears to be at or near zero, and that's on top of the fear people of varying constitutions feel about even entering one. As a rec gamer (who wants to go), I can't see myself returning before New Year's. Why bother?
Assuming a significant number of rec gamers (and general tourists) feel the same way, this year is going to be a looong, miserable row to hoe for casino based economies.
No question. The hardcore gambler might be ok...those who don’t track whether it’s 5pm or 5am, as long as they are gambling, probably wouldn’t care. Those coming here with more of a mix and fun factor mentality?....can’t see it.
I’d hit a national park, the open spaces, a lake, a road trip to nowhere before I’d venture to the Strip. When I see a line to get on the elevator to get to my room or to wait to get into the pool area....check please.
Good for those who are still coming...Vegas needs you. I couldn’t do it.
Quote: TDVegasNo question. The hardcore gambler might be ok...those who don’t track whether it’s 5pm or 5am, as long as they are gambling, probably wouldn’t care. Those coming here with more of a mix and fun factor mentality?....can’t see it.
I’d hit a national park, the open spaces, a lake, a road trip to nowhere before I’d venture to the Strip. When I see a line to get on the elevator to get to my room or to wait to get into the pool area....check please.
Good for those who are still coming...Vegas needs you. I couldn’t do it.
Now I am an outsider here but I would believe that Vegas does not come back until the convention traffic does. That is the bulk of their midweek business one would assume.
Quote: Gabes22Now I am an outsider here but I would believe that Vegas does not come back until the convention traffic does. That is the bulk of their midweek business one would assume.
You are correct on your assumption.
Well, that pretty much tells you what's happening inside casinos.
Quote: redietzAccording to the Review-Journal, Nevada is pursuing 150 non-compliance health and safety violations by casinos.
Well, that pretty much tells you what's happening inside casinos.
Not really. How many hundred casinos are in the state? Are they pursuing against 150 casinos or are there 150 violations they are pursuing in total?
Quote: billryanNot really. How many hundred casinos are in the state? Are they pursuing against 150 casinos or are there 150 violations they are pursuing in total?
Also, are they pursuing actual proven violations, or reports of violations? Anybody can report a violation, but that doesn't mean that one took place.
Quote: Mission146Also, are they pursuing actual proven violations, or reports of violations? Anybody can report a violation, but that doesn't mean that one took place.
that is true but the flip side is this
when a business is cited for violations IMO it is much more likely that they have committed many more violations than what they were cited for
just as if the Vegas police report that there were 100 instances of DWI (sometimes called DUI) during a month it is very likely that there were actually 500 or more drivers who drove around Vegas while intoxicated during that month
not an exact analogy to business violations but nonetheless
my experience is that businesses tend to clean up their act when they know an inspection is imminent
and if no inspection is imminent they're perfectly happy to be very sloppy
I saw this while working several years at Dulles airport where my company routinely violated the rules on the storage of chemicals used in cleaning unless they knew an inspection was coming - and they always had advance knowledge of this
no, I was not a cleaner, but as a ramp agent I worked right next to them
and I've seen it in other companies that I have worked for -
Quote: lilredroosterthat is true but the flip side is this
when a business is cited for violations IMO it is much more likely that they have committed many more violations than what they were cited for
I totally agree with that. There's the speeding ticket analogy, which I'm sure almost everyone is familiar with.
Quote:just as if the Vegas police report that there were 100 instances of DWI (sometimes called DUI) during a month it is very likely that there were actually 500 or more drivers who drove around Vegas while intoxicated during that month
I agree.
Quote:not an exact analogy to business violations but nonetheless
my experience is that businesses tend to clean up their act when they know an inspection is imminent
and if no inspection is imminent they're perfectly happy to be very sloppy
I agree.
Quote:I saw this while working several years at Dulles airport where my company routinely violated the rules on the storage of chemicals used in cleaning
and I've seen it in other companies that I have worked for - when I was much younger and drove a truck during a recession my company expected me to operate a truck that had very faulty brakes - and they knew it had faulty brakes
I could also name several examples as relates previous places where I have been employed.
I guess my only skepticism on this is that the violations pertain to COVID-19, which many people choose to care about rather selectively. If a person is worried about related violations taking place inside of a casino, then I can't help but wonder what that person would be doing inside of a casino given the current pandemic. I'd also be wondering what constitutes a, 'Violation.' If we're also talking about, 'Violations,' that exist due to patron activity or inactivity, then certainly no business can be expected to catch all of those immediately.
Kind of like hotels and combustible things being within six feet of an outlet. If that's happening in an occupied guest room, and involves the guest's stuff, I don't know how the hotel is expected to be able to prevent that around the clock.
If 150 casinos have violations, it looks like 2/3rds of the casinos are in compliance.
It's a bad situation out there.
I told about how Red Rock had a policy (it has changed) of not enforcing certain social distancing rules and when I called the NGC office within a half-hour or so an enforcement agent was at Red Rock telling them to fix it. They did.
But there were three other events or violations I saw at casinos that i called the NGC with and they did not dispatch agents. The NGC has agents touring all open casinos 24/7 and I was told that they are careful to call out only the severe problems.
For example the 50% occupancy rule. This is a real gray area for enforcement because there aren't actual counters. And if a casino has 60% occupancy on a gaming floor it will likely slide.
So if you're saying there are 150 cases these must be serious cases.
I heard that these violations carry something like a $130,000 fine but I dont know if that's true. I'm just repeating that fine info which popped up on some social media site.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI have first hand experience with Gaming and reporting violations.
I told about how Red Rock had a policy (it has changed) of not enforcing certain social distancing rules and when I called the NGC office within a half-hour or so an enforcement agent was at Red Rock telling them to fix it. They did.
But there were three other events or violations I saw at casinos that i called the NGC with and they did not dispatch agents. The NGC has agents touring all open casinos 24/7 and I was told that they are careful to call out only the severe problems.
For example the 50% occupancy rule. This is a real gray area for enforcement because there aren't actual counters. And if a casino has 60% occupancy on a gaming floor it will likely slide.
So if you're saying there are 150 cases these must be serious cases.
I heard that these violations carry something like a $130,000 fine but I dont know if that's true. I'm just repeating that fine info which popped up on some social media site.
Red Rock is hit and miss, IMO. The other day they were pretty good with getting on people who were wearing their mask on their chin. Today...just the opposite. I saw way too many people with the chin strap going and not much enforcement. It’s all at the slots. It’s a combination of drinkers and smokers. Considering they were hammering a drinker the other day by telling her twice after she took a drink to pull up her mask...I have to assume this is the mandate, whether you drink or smoke at slots, you have to pull your mask up after a sip or puff. You don’t have license to have it off the entire time you are on a slot while you have a drink or smoke.
After all... they smoke.
Quote: billryanLooks like there were 441 casinos in Nevada. A casino being a venue with table games and or more than 15 slot machines.
If 150 casinos have violations, it looks like 2/3rds of the casinos are in compliance.
It's a bad situation out there.
If a restaurant can't serve food safely it shouldn't be allowed to be open. It's not right for patrons or employees.
If a casino can't serve its patrons safely and can't protect its employees it shouldn't be open either.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf a restaurant can't serve food safely it shouldn't be allowed to be open. It's not right for patrons or employees.
If a casino can't serve its patrons safely and can't protect its employees it shouldn't be open either.
Have you contemplated the possibility of just not going to the casino if you're very concerned about all of this?
Quote: Mission146Have you contemplated the possibility of just not going to the casino if you're very concerned about all of this?
I've walked out of several as soon as I saw problems. My health is more important.
If you've read my Facebook page which is open to all you will see I only go to casinos to use my free play and then I bolt.
At the same time I'm concerned about others. What's right is right and what's wrong should be reported.
I have been doing exactly the same. So happens I am at the peak of my cycle at a couple places, meaning getting my top amount of free play right now, so I didn't want to let that go. Very stupid of me.Quote: AlanMendelson
If you've read my Facebook page which is open to all you will see I only go to casinos to use my free play and then I bolt.
Quote: kewljI have been doing exactly the same. So happens I am at the peak of my cycle at a couple places, meaning getting my top amount of free play right now, so I didn't want to let that go. Very stupid of me.
I go around 3am. Very few people around. In and out in five minutes with a free mask and temperature check. Wash hands before exiting.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI've walked out of several as soon as I saw problems. My health is more important.
If you've read my Facebook page which is open to all you will see I only go to casinos to use my free play and then I bolt.
At the same time I'm concerned about others. What's right is right and what's wrong should be reported.
I guess I'm fine with everything except the reporting them part. I believe it is counterintuitive for two reasons:
1. You could just not go.
2. More reports against a particular casino, I would think, would make it that much more likely that they (or all) are ordered just to close.
Quote: Mission146I guess I'm fine with everything except the reporting them part. I believe it is counterintuitive for two reasons:
1. You could just not go.
2. More reports against a particular casino, I would think, would make it that much more likely that they (or all) are ordered just to close.
1. I was already there. That's how I saw them doing wrong.
2. I don't care if the casinos close. Frankly, if they can't operate according to the rules they should close.
Quote: AlanMendelson1. I was already there. That's how I saw them doing wrong.
2. I don't care if the casinos close. Frankly, if they can't operate according to the rules they should close.
If you don't care if they close and are worried about safety, then why not just pretend they are closed and not go there...that would then completely alleviate the safety concerns you have.
Quote: Mission146If you don't care if they close and are worried about safety, then why not just pretend they are closed and not go there...that would then completely alleviate the safety concerns you have.
Why are you making this thread about me?
Quote: AlanMendelsonWhy are you making this thread about me?
My interest in how this relates to you, and hence my line of questioning, is because you said that you have reported casinos. It made me curious as to why you would be going to casinos if you are highly concerned about CV-19. Eventually, I was going to ask for some specifics as relates the instances that led to your reports. Specifically, were these things that caused you to report happening in such a way that staff knew and was deliberately ignoring it, or were they instances staff might not have even seen yet and just hadn't the opportunity to do anything about.
I would then have asked if you made your concerns known to the casino prior to making your reports to the higher authority.
But, just let me know if you no longer wish to discuss it. It's up to you what you want to discuss or not discuss.
Quote: Mission146My interest in how this relates to you, and hence my line of questioning, is because you said that you have reported casinos. It made me curious as to why you would be going to casinos if you are highly concerned about CV-19. Eventually, I was going to ask for some specifics as relates the instances that led to your reports. Specifically, were these things that caused you to report happening in such a way that staff knew and was deliberately ignoring it, or were they instances staff might not have even seen yet and just hadn't the opportunity to do anything about.
I would then have asked if you made your concerns known to the casino prior to making your reports to the higher authority.
But, just let me know if you no longer wish to discuss it. It's up to you what you want to discuss or not discuss.
You may have missed my posts. Of course I raised the issues, ALL OF THEM, with casino managers first. If they ignored me, I called then on it.
I'm going to find, then copy and paste, my post on Facebook about the incident that not only got the NGC there, but was also picked up by the Review Journal. I also have photos of unmanned security checkpoints where there was no one to check temperatures or to hand out masks, and these are also on Facebook because there is no direct way to upload them here.
Back in a minute....
Let's see if this works: (Posted June 7, 3 days after we were told it was safe to return to casinos with social distancing and 50% capacity.)
I called the Nevada Gaming Commission on Sunday and I made an official complaint against Red Rock Casino.
Shame on Red Rock Casino.
I was playing at one craps table with one other player on my side and three other players on the other side. Then a young guy walks up with SIX others in tow. This one guy takes the remaining spot at the table and his four male friends squeezed in at the table. Two gals stood behind them.
Two problems here. First non players are not supposed to be at tables or even standing close by to watch the action. Second problem was the more obvious... you cant have all those friends at the table when the maximum is three.
First, I asked a dealer to have the non players leave. The dealer said "we are not the social distancing police." What???
I asked a second dealer who said it the same. Then I called over a supervisor who said the same. Then a second supervisor a memo was sent by management that they are not the police for social distancing.
Then another supervisor came over to me to apologize. He knew I was correct.
In fact the casinos must enforce the social distancing rules set by the Nevada Gaming Commission.
By then it was too late for Red Rock. I left my chips in the rail of the table and I stepped back to use my phone. I called the NGC enforcement office in Vegas which operates 24/7.
I told the NGC officer on duty what was going on, and I told him what table I was at.
Within a half hour an NGC agent, badge and all, was at my table speaking with me. And then he went to the top manager and told him off.
Shortly after the dealers and supervisors were enforcing the rules.
I don't know if Red Rock will be fined. Fines are usually kept confidential. I'm sure they're going to get written up for violating a key rule that allowed the casinos to reopen.
Now, you might say "what do you care. You have chosen not to go in and put yourself at risk. what everyone else does is none of your business". Under normal circumstances, that would be correct. But these are anything but normal circumstances. We are all in this together. There are no "bubbles". Something promoting and enabling greater spread throughout the community is putting us all at greater risk. Therefore anyone reporting such violation is within their right to do so.
I hate that we are in this drawing lines and forming teams and let me do my thing place, because that is not the way this virus works. We can only beat this is everyone is on the same team and works together, instead of their own self interest.
Quote: kewljMission, it seems like you are trying to take a little backhanded (maybe friendly) swipe at Alan. Something along the lines that he can't help himself from going to casino even though casino's put him at risk. I hope I am reading it wrong, but that is the way it comes across to me. :/
Not at all, and I apologize if either you or he take it that way.
I'm generally interested in people who do not think the way that I do and approach problems in a way other than the way that I would approach them. I'm not as interested in hearing thoughts about a problem from people who share my perspective, because I already know what my perspective is, and hearing a paraphrase of it does absolutely nothing for me.
IOW, I would either not go to the casino at all, or would just accept that there are going to be violations here and there...but that's just me. At worst, I might bring an egregious violation up to a staff member...but I seriously doubt it and I would definitely not report Covid-19 related infractions to Gaming. So, I'm interested in hearing the thought process of someone who would and has.
Yes, I went thru several managers.
I followed the rules. Why should I let others endanger me?
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou may have missed my posts. Of course I raised the issues, ALL OF THEM, with casino managers first. If they ignored me, I called then on it.
I'm going to find, then copy and paste, my post on Facebook about the incident that not only got the NGC there, but was also picked up by the Review Journal. I also have photos of unmanned security checkpoints where there was no one to check temperatures or to hand out masks, and these are also on Facebook because there is no direct way to upload them here.
***Quote clipped and does not include the account from Facebook***
I'll try to find you on Facebook and send you a Friend Request. It'll be from Brandon James, but I will say I mostly use Facebook to post links to my articles, though I'll set it up so I am at least likely to see your posts. I'll also tell you happy birthday, though I'm sometimes a day or two late.
I could understand a person being more inclined to report if staff/management are informed as to a violation and choose to do nothing about it, so that's definitely some good context that I was missing. That sounds like a tough situation for dealers/supervisors, because in either case, their action or inaction is going to tick someone off. It sounds like they decided, for one reason or another, that they would rather tick you off than tick off the kid with that group.
Anyway, your account resolves most of the questions that I would have had. I guess I still see a bit of a disconnect in going to a casino actually expecting the social distancing rules to be strictly followed in all instances. I would also add that, for me personally, a small group packed closely together is not going to make or break whether I'd feel safe in a casino or not.
Quote: AlanMendelsonMission I hope you will read my edited post above with my Facebook post from June 7.
Yes, I went thru several managers.
I followed the rules. Why should I let others endanger me?
I did. I guess my point, just from my perspective, is that you're doing a greater potential danger to yourself just by being there in the first place than are a few people who are there and violating the safety rules. Were you not there, then their adherence to the safety rules would be irrelevant to you.
Quote: TDVegasMy 2 cents....There might be a greater good in this pandemic fight beyond “If you don’t like it, don’t go”.
Would you be kind enough to elaborate? I sense something interesting about to be said.
Quote: Mission146I did. I guess my point, just from my perspective, is that you're doing a greater potential danger to yourself just by being there in the first place than are a few people who are there and violating the safety rules. Were you not there, then their adherence to the safety rules would be irrelevant to you.
So I am supposed to put myself in solitary confinement because there are jerks in the world?
Am i supposed to give up my car and driving because someone else might be driving drunk?
Am i supposed to not go to concerts because some idiot might set off fireworks and cause a fire?
The casinos entered a deal. To reopen on June 4th they said they would do certain things to protect patrons and employees. Am I supposed to suffer because they didn't keep their word?
How about this: a casino says they only have 3/2 Blackjack, but you get there and while you're playing they change every game to 6/5. Do you just shrug it off or do you complain loud and clear?
Quote: kewljLet's take it outside of a discussion about casinos. Here in Nevada bars are closed again. But let's say they weren't and bars were allowed to be open at 25% capacity. So I ride by the local bar down the street on a Friday evening and the parking lot is full, large groups of people are hanging in and around the doorway and no doubt the bar is packed, just as it used to be on a Friday evening pre-covid-19 times.
Now, you might say "what do you care. You have chosen not to go in and put yourself at risk. what everyone else does is none of your business". Under normal circumstances, that would be correct. But these are anything but normal circumstances. We are all in this together. There are no "bubbles". Something promoting and enabling greater spread throughout the community is putting us all at greater risk. Therefore anyone reporting such violation is within their right to do so.
I hate that we are in this drawing lines and forming teams and let me do my thing place, because that is not the way this virus works. We can only beat this is everyone is on the same team and works together, instead of their own self interest.
We are NOT all in this together. If people want to make poor decisions that put themselves and others at risk, then that is their responsibility to bear and their own lookout as far as themselves and their families and friends are concerned.
For my part, I have looked upon the health advisories and have chosen to:
1. Socially distance.
2. Wear the mask in public, except sometimes not outdoors IF I am simultaneously distanced from people.
3. Wear a bandana over the mask to keep it in place over my big nose. Also, it looks cooler.
4. To keep hand sanitizer spray in the car that I spray on my hands or gloves both before leaving the car and after returning to the car.
5. To sometimes wear gloves (that I spray with the sanitizer spray) for locations in which I will be touching a bunch of stuff, such as a grocery store.
But, I am not doing these things for me. I'm doing it to prevent myself from spreading it to others if I were to get it.
So, I look at it as taking a certain degree of personal responsibility that satisfies my conscience. But, my conscience does not belong to everyone, so I do not believe it is for me to tell other people what to do or what their responsibilities are. At worst, I might make a suggestion to someone and explain why I choose to do things in a way different than they do....but that's extremely unlikely.
In any case, we are NOT all in this together. There is no team. There is no alliance.
Ironically, I say this as I am doing the exact things that you would probably want me to be doing! I just wouldn't be inclined to force those things on anyone else. They should only do it if they are doing it of their own free will and volition.
Quote: AlanMendelsonSo I am supposed to put myself in solitary confinement because there are jerks in the world?
No, it's just if I had to make a Top 5 list of the most risky places to be, I'd put casinos at #'s 1, 2 and 3.
Quote:Am i supposed to give up my car and driving because someone else might be driving drunk?
Umm...how does one lead to another? I think there's a certain probability component at play as relates contracting CV-19 in a casino compared to getting hit by a drunk driver.
Quote:Am i supposed to not go to concerts because some idiot might set off fireworks and cause a fire?
I don't believe that concerts are presently an option in most places, in fact, I'm not sure they are anywhere.
Quote:The casinos entered a deal. To reopen on June 4th they said they would do certain things to protect patrons and employees. Am I supposed to suffer because they didn't keep their word?
No. And, if you did not go, then you would not suffer. My line of questioning had nothing to do with whether or not the casinos should be following the rules. Of course they should be following the rules. I just enter into it with an assumption that, as with any other physical location that I'm aware of in any customer-facing business, they will not be following all of the rules all of the time.
Quote:How about this: a casino says they only have 3/2 Blackjack, but you get there and while you're playing they change every game to 6/5. Do you just shrug it off or do you complain loud and clear?
I would just quit playing Blackjack there.
Quote: Mission146We are NOT all in this together...
...In any case, we are NOT all in this together. There is no team. There is no alliance.
And this is exactly why the United States is "leading the world" in every wrong category.
Quote: Mission146Would you be kind enough to elaborate? I sense something interesting about to be said.
I’m just noting that there may be issues that arise from a “hands off”, personal decision mentality.
If our hospitals become overwhelmed in Vegas....then there is a greater good than just “if you don’t like what’s happening, don’t go”.
Then....it potentially becomes everyone’s problem. Not saying it will happen, but there could be a greater good than just “let it be”.
Quote: TDVegasI’m just noting that there may be issues that arise from a “hands off”, personal decision mentality.
If our hospitals become overwhelmed in Vegas....then there is a greater good than just “if you don’t like what’s happening, don’t go”.
Then....it potentially becomes everyone’s problem. Not saying it will happen, but there could be a greater good than just “let it be”.
If the hospitals become overwhelmed, then people would have to come up with an alternative care place or they would simply have to say that they cannot admit anyone else.
