Are Sports truly rigged?
See Aljazeera: Munawar special.
Bottom of which post?Quote: BaccaratKid5th line from the bottom - .
By George, I think you're right. To me, it hangs together better that way (with connecting transition help on punctuation & caps from auto-correct) so after a quick '5-up' trimming I really finished everything left on the plate. But not sure if I did it right.Quote: BaccaratKid5th line from the bottom - What? Proofread. Anyway, sure, ANYTHING has a +ev if you 'do it right'.
Quote: Channeling thought fragments of FiveFromTheBottom (not yet formally a member here)Yes the counter arguments are well these players make hundreds of millions with their contracts and endorsement deals so they wouldn't. If you actually read my post, you would see that I provided both of those possibilities as to the games being rigged. Refs fixing the league as a whole to keep the spread as close as possible for TV RATINGS. It's as simple as that. Just look at the league chuck up shots. The more a team drives into the pain and around screens, the closer the score will be to the spread every game. In the top 95% of the standings you get RELEGATED to another division. This will end 'tanking' as we know it and not have teams with some random elbow sprain thag he apparently hurt in PRACTICE in the offseason? I mean really? Not to mention the perfect timing the favorite team outright and not only cover, but win the moneyline as well and when I say win the moneyline, I dont mean by barely.
still happens all the time, I agree.Quote: ZenKinGfrom the OP: where Lakers got about 40 free throws in the 4th quarter of one pivotal game. Whole thing makes me sick.
Now the Lakers have 'the King' and he is known to not get foul calls often, even after getting totally butchered physically, but a non-Laker player flopping 35 feet from the rim not even being touched
always gets 3 free shots.
won't mention who
pathetic
I still bet NBA but refuse to watch any game
the refs are so bad (not MJackson bad)
just look up the free throw attempt stats per game and see
there is a major problem in the NBA (do not watch any video, might ruin your dinner)
teams do not really play defense either
(I mean who plays as good as UCLA from the late 60s or early 70s)
thanks for giving some truth
So now you have the Bulls best player, Markannen our starting Power Forward still out another 3-4 weeks. You also have our starting point guard, Kris Dunn out another 4-6 weeks. You now have our curremt starting power forward who was out 6th man thid year now out 4-6 weeks LOL. We also have our bench small forward who started last year who is also good, Denzel Valentine also out for god knows how long with an ankle injury they said wasnt even serious but yet he constantly remains out? They dont even try to hide it anymore.
Quote: ZenKinGWOW. ANOTHER INJURY to one of the Bulls main players. And guess what? The exact same injury as the one to Kris Dunn with the exact same time table to return. Once again the king is right. These teams dont even try to hide it anymore. No where did Bobby Portis injure his knee last game and yet the news comes out he also has a 'moderate MCL sprain' and is out 4-6 weeks. Im honestly too smart. As if I can sniff out corruption like nothing meanwhile everyone turns a blind eye. How is everyone suffering a 'moderate MCL sprain'. Thats complete bullshit. Either its completely rigged and the players are being bought out by the mafia behind the scene after being hammered on the bulls over or the bulls medical staff is one of the most garbage staffs I have ever seen. This happens every single year. Not to mention I called it once again on a facebook post on the bulls page sayimg the medical staff needs to be fired and look what happens again? Another inkury. Do I seriously call everything? Only God and divine intervention can really stop me. Im actually even starting to amaze myself.
So now you have the Bulls best player, Markannen our starting Power Forward still out another 3-4 weeks. You also have our starting point guard, Kris Dunn out another 4-6 weeks. You now have our curremt starting power forward who was out 6th man thid year now out 4-6 weeks LOL. We also have our bench small forward who started last year who is also good, Denzel Valentine also out for god knows how long with an ankle injury they said wasnt even serious but yet he constantly remains out? They dont even try to hide it anymore.
So Bobby Portis, who will enter free agency for the first time next offseason , and whose future contract, earnings potential and livelihood will be based in large part on his in court performance this season ... is faking an injury and missing 4-6 weeks worth of games... so that people holding a bet ticket on an obscure team total wins wager can cash their tickets ? He’s forgoing a month a a half worth of stats that could have an effect on his next contract in the tens of millions of dollars range in order to keep the Bulls season win total below 30.
Same goes for the other hurt players. They are all willing to stunt their growth as players and sit out faking injuries.
Ok got it
Actually I think we all know the reasoning behind yet another nonsensical theory.
If the bulls go over the total wins, you come here and post how smart your pick was.
If the Bulls stay under the total wins you come here and post how smart your theory was.
You got your bases covered regardless of the outcome
Quote: michael99000So Bobby Portis, who will enter free agency for the first time next offseason , and whose future contract, earnings potential and livelihood will be based in large part on his in court performance this season ... is faking an injury and missing 4-6 weeks worth of games... so that people holding a bet ticket on an obscure team total wins wager can cash their tickets ? He’s forgoing a month a a half worth of stats that could have an effect on his next contract in the tens of millions of dollars range in order to keep the Bulls season win total below 30.
Same goes for the other hurt players. They are all willing to stunt their growth as players and sit out faking injuries.
Ok got it
Actually I think we all know the reasoning behind yet another nonsensical theory.
If the bulls go over the total wins, you come here and post how smart your pick was.
If the Bulls stay under the total wins you come here and post how smart your theory was.
You got your bases covered regardless of the outcome
Nope. If the bulls go under 27.5 it's because of injuries, which I STATED in my original OP. So nice try. If anyone knows of a bookie that still takes bets on season total wins, now would be a really good time to actually double down because the bulls will still get over 27.5.
Morons say stuff like this. But you should have the capacity to visualize this scenario as a whole and see how silly it is.
The amount of money the books stand to lose is probably less than 100k, combined across offshore and Vegas. And they are far from a lock to lose it. Their number was off by 2 or 3 games at most. If this was an amazing bet, they have a 25% chance to lose. So EV is -25k at the very most.
Now let's suppose an NBA game draws 15k fans. If 2 in a thousand, a fairly low estimate, decide not to go because star players or their fav player is not in the game that is 30 people a game.
We'll be ultra conservative and say they spend $100 each on Tix parking and food. That is $3000 per game.
That doesn't even touch upon tv ratings. Or the player's next contract, now that he has an injury history.
Do I really need to continue?
What you are saying is absolutely absurd.
Why do you think that a smart person holds utterly absurd believes that are totally at odds with reality?
I'm a reasonably smart guy too. Suppose I started telling you that the Entertainment industry was canceling TV shows or fabricating box office receipts to mess with my eBay store, or that the airline and rental car industries were conspiring to mess up my travel because my small business selling shoes was eating into the profits of Nike.
What would you think about my mental state?
Quote: RigondeauxYou are a very smart guy.
Morons say stuff like this. But you should have the capacity to visualize this scenario as a whole and see how silly it is.
The amount of money the books stand to lose is probably less than 100k, combined across offshore and Vegas. And they are far from a lock to lose it. Their number was off by 2 or 3 games at most. If this was an amazing bet, they have a 25% chance to lose. So EV is -25k at the very most.
Now let's suppose an NBA game draws 15k fans. If 2 in a thousand, a fairly low estimate, decide not to go because star players or their fav player is not in the game that is 30 people a game.
We'll be ultra conservative and say they spend $100 each on Tix parking and food. That is $3000 per game.
That doesn't even touch upon tv ratings. Or the player's next contract, now that he has an injury history.
Do I really need to continue?
What you are saying is absolutely absurd.
Why do you think that a smart person holds utterly absurd believes that are totally at odds with reality?
I'm a reasonably smart guy too. Suppose I started telling you that the Entertainment industry was canceling TV shows or fabricating box office receipts to mess with my eBay store, or that the airline and rental car industries were conspiring to mess up my travel because my small business selling shoes was eating into the profits of Nike.
What would you think about my mental state?
Why are you using ticket sales and tv ratings as an argument to this. I'm talking about player injuries and someone paying these guys off or paying off the higher ups that then tell the athletes and coaches to not 'rush back'. This recent post isn't a league issue and how money affects the league. Also I dont know where you get the 100k loss figure, I'm guessing it's A LOT more as the sharps definitely hammered this one, but I dont know what kind of action they allow on these props as I never bet them.
The more I think about it, I might be reaching a bit here with this assertion, but I just can't believe how every single year this is happening to my team. Maybe I just answered my own post. The medical staff needs to be fired as I said before. Complete joke for 6 years now. But what gets me is the 'timing' of these injuries. There's literally not even a word on Denzel Valentine's injury that happened in the summer with no detail or update on his injury other than being vague about it. Now you get two of the main players DAYS APART with the same exact injury and the same time table? A nice 4-6 week window that is enough time to just be able to mess up the bulls over under record, while not raising red flags. The bulls main player is already out 6-8 weeks from late september where he somehow injures his elbow in PRACTICE in the SUMMER? I mean what the hell? All the injuries randomly happen weeks or as soon as the seasons starts right after the line comes out and people start hammering it. Just fishy to say the least. I mean, even Kris Dunn, who is now out again due to injury, misses the first 2 games of the season due to birth of their child?
I mean really, either this team is cursed or I dont know what the hell is going on. What are the chances the birth of his child coincides exactly with the start of the season. That's a 1/365 chance. I take that back, there's a really high possibility that this team is cursed because I AM cursed and thus my team is also cursed. Sorry Bulls.
Why are ticket sales relevant? Jeez.
OK I'll spell it out. It is crazy to say that an NBA team would sacrifice 100k in ticket sales just to make sure that the collective bookies across the world did not lose 25 k in EV.
What you are writing here is pathologically nutsy Koo Koo.
Quote: RigondeauxThe limits on these bets are small and the books follow each other's lines as money comes in. Really, you could never get 100k on a win total. I was being very charitable.
Why are ticket sales relevant? Jeez.
OK I'll spell it out. It is crazy to say that an NBA team would sacrifice 100k in ticket sales just to make sure that the collective bookies across the world did not lose 25 k in EV.
What you are writing here is pathologically nutsy Koo Koo.
When did I say an NBA team as a whole or even the owner would be in on it. I have said repeatedly that my argument was that these players are being paid off behind the scenes. This has nothing to do with team or league revenue. Again, this idea or argument of mine might be a bit out there, but I don't put it past anyone anymore after seeing corruption in this league anywhere from players to refs to anyone. Players from the Knicks were being paid off in the 90s or late 80s can't remember exactly, but it happened. Refs have been sent to prison for fixing games and they claim there are refs doing it still to this day. I mean what exact safeguards are in place for a particular individual to not fix a game behind the scenes or try their best to get the result they want?
What about the doctors? You understand that an mcl sprain or whatever is observable?
Why would ownership and the NBA tolerate this if they are not getting a taste AND it is taking money out of their pocket?
Who is delivering the money and approaching the players? How much do they get paid? Who instructs that person? What are they paid? How much extra does their boss make by doing this? Why is the ownership of CET even worried about a few grand? What sane stockholder would want the company to do this?
Why are elite athletes so unconcerned about, not only destroying their careers and going to jail, but so non competitive that they will tank a whole season for pocket money?
This is a literal delusion. A product of actual paranoia. See a doctor.
Quote: RigondeauxIt's already been pointed out that the loss on future contracts dwarfs any possible bribe.
What about the doctors? You understand that an mcl sprain or whatever is observable?
Why would ownership and the NBA tolerate this if they are not getting a taste AND it is taking money out of their pocket?
Who is delivering the money and approaching the players? How much do they get paid? Who instructs that person? What are they paid? How much extra does their boss make by doing this? Why is the ownership of CET even worried about a few grand? What sane stockholder would want the company to do this?
Why are elite athletes so unconcerned about, not only destroying their careers and going to jail, but so non competitive that they will tank a whole season for pocket money?
This is a literal delusion. A product of actual paranoia. See a doctor.
Some of your questions make sense, others do not. First off a stakeholder in CET would never know about it if something like this was happening. I already said I might be reaching a bit with this, but the same questions you're asking now would have failed miserably if you were asking those questions at the time the Knicks players were being paid off behind the scenes. Why would those players risk their careers? They did it anyway. Just like the President of Enron risked his career as well as refs in several sports. If people like you always want to rule everything out, then things like this will happen and you will be left dumbfounded. Learn to question everything when there is serious money involved. Sometimes things that seem out of the realm of possibility are happening right in front of your eyes. Also quit trying to downplay the amount of money at stake in this prop of the bulls over 27.5, you don't know how much is involved, so quit trying to say it's a low amount just to fit your argument. You also don't even know how much underground money is involved either. You're just talking about what's on the books. It's a shady world out there, especially in the world of the casino industry. Don't forget what Vegas was built upon. The same family bloodlines are still in work today working for these very same casinos.
Also regarding seeing a doctor, the last thing Ill ever see is a doctor who was unable to think for himself and just simply memorized the information given to him in a textbook just like you see with collegiate law students. Intelligence doesn't come from memorizing information in a book. If a dog could read, he also could memorize the same information. True intelligence comes from the ability to be able to think critically about what is going on around you. That's what separates us from every other creature in the world. The ability to THINK, the ability to think CRITICALLY, the ability to plan for tomorrow, etc. Go see if a dog understands the premise of tomorrow or the week after. They live in the present and that's all they care about.
Sure, sometimes I might be grasping at straws with some of the assertions I make, but the point is you can't truly rule anything out. I just laugh at the people who immediately try to 'label' you and call you insane or to go see a doctor. This is the product of what society has trained us to think of people with anything questioning the norm or what they have tried to ingrain in our heads since a young age. These people are only 'insane' when the world is asleep to what is actually going on. When the truth unveils itself, these 'insane' people turn out to be the geniuses. Funny how that works. Go ahead and remind me of what they said about Galileo when he claimed the world was a sphere while everyone including the government said it was flat. What happened after that?
The pocket money is immediate, there may be a stick involved its viewed as impossible to get caught so its safer to jeopardize future income.Quote: RigondeauxIt's already been pointed out that the loss on future contracts dwarfs any possible bribe.
Quote: FleaStiffThe pocket money is immediate, there may be a stick involved its viewed as impossible to get caught so its safer to jeopardize future income.
It's not completely impossible that a player could shave points. Very unlikely but not impossible. It is essentially impossible that this could happen over a win total bet.
To get an NBA player to rig a game would be like trying to find a cop who would be willing to buy underage kids beer for a fee of $5 while on duty. Theoretically, sure. Some cop out there might do it. But you're going to run into one who arrests you before you find him.
Now, would a guy... Let's say go out the night before at get destroyed at the club. And maybe let a friend know, who just happens to be in Vegas. Oh, sure. But it's going to involve the player and his people. Not the book manager at MGM calling players at random and telling them to sit out for 2 months.
Quote: billryanThe Knicks were shaving points? Got a link?
https://nypost.com/2013/09/14/knicks-players-fixed-games-for-drug-dealers-in-80s-fbi/
It was suspected. 38 years ago.
If it even happened it was some players working with their dealers. As a better, it could help you just as easily as hurt you.
Quote: TigerWuIf sports are rigged, what's the score going to be for the World Series game tonight?
4-3 Dodgers
Isee you signature line ... Damon Runyon.Quote: unJon4-3 Dodgers
but shouldn't be bet on the fix?
Quote: unJon4-3 Dodgers
Close! 3-2 Dodgers.
Guess I should have put some money on your prediction! Haha...
Yabbut, still under the total of 7.5 runs even after doubling the innings! And I'm sure that's what he was about. So cha-ching!Quote: TigerWuClose! 3-2 Dodgers.
Guess I should have put some money on your prediction! Haha...
Quote: Damon RunyonI long ago come to the conclusion that all life is six to five against.
Quote: DrawingDeadYabbut, still under the total of 7.5 runs even after doubling the innings! And I'm sure that's what he was about. So cha-ching!
I didn’t actually bet anything, just wanted to make a smart ass prediction to a smart ass request. But you are right, I picked 4-3 Dodgers as just under the run line. Figured it had a better chance of lucking into being correct.
However, the only plausible fix scenario that I can conceive of is this:
1. The Bulls are interested in lottery picks and wish to tank.
2. The Bulls influence their team doctors to define minor pains in their player knees as MCL sprains and sit them for 4-6 weeks.
3. Players can't argue with the doctors, can they?
Basically, doctors define your medical status and availability to play, its usually not players. And getting to rest 4-6 weeks is not a big problem for the players anyway -they'll be well rested when they return and may be able to post better "per game" stats.
Quote: gordonm888Let me first say that I do not agree with ZenKing's theory.
However, the only plausible fix scenario that I can conceive of is this:
1. The Bulls are interested in lottery picks and wish to tank.
2. The Bulls influence their team doctors to define minor pains in their player knees as MCL sprains and sit them for 4-6 weeks.
3. Players can't argue with the doctors, can they?
Basically, doctors define your medical status and availability to play, its usually not players. And getting to rest 4-6 weeks is not a big problem for the players anyway -they'll be well rested when they return and may be able to post better "per game" stats.
Ive thought about this, but then my problem is, how did the sportsbooks know this would happen? They suspiciously posted 27.5 wins and maybe its because they knew the team would secretly tank and have their players sit out for longer time than needed? I mean you got Denzel Valentine sitting on the bench for 2 months now after a little ankle tweak with no update? I mean seriously? Also two players randomly go down with the same injury days apart? Our lead player injures his elbow in PRACTICE and is out 6-8 WEEKS?
Your theory makes sense because teams cant purposely tank anymore as the commissioner is cracking down on this. Could it be that the owners instructed the medical staff to do as you said? Exaggerate the injuries?
Quote: gordonm888Let me first say that I do not agree with ZenKing's theory.
However, the only plausible fix scenario that I can conceive of is this:
1. The Bulls are interested in lottery picks and wish to tank.
2. The Bulls influence their team doctors to define minor pains in their player knees as MCL sprains and sit them for 4-6 weeks.
3. Players can't argue with the doctors, can they?
Basically, doctors define your medical status and availability to play, its usually not players. And getting to rest 4-6 weeks is not a big problem for the players anyway -they'll be well rested when they return and may be able to post better "per game" stats.
If it were ever discovered the players could sure the docs and team for reducing their market value.
The docs might face serious consequences professionally.
Quote: RigondeauxIf it were ever discovered the players could sure the docs and team for reducing their market value.
The docs might face serious consequences professionally.
The universal tactic in sports is to do everything via oral conversations, and if any allegations come out then deny, deny, deny.
And what could players sue for? They are getting paid in full in accordance with their contract. Team is simply following advice of medical doctors. Doctors are issuing their opinions and "erring on the side of the medical well-being of the athlete." Proving anything in court -without a wholesale confession by one of the doctors - would be extremely difficult.
If NBA rules have been recently changed to prevent obvious tanking via benching star players, then this scenario actually does make sense.
And, NO, the book's 27.5 win line was almost certainly not influenced by such a strategy. That is not plausible.
Quote: RigondeauxIf it were ever discovered the players could sure the docs and team for reducing their market value.
The docs might face serious consequences professionally.
I've known team docs for our NFL and NHL teams. They tend to be successful orthopedic surgeons. I would guess they make somewhere in the low 7 figures. I cannot conceive of them putting a fake diagnosis on someone because they are 'told' by someone to. And that someone is doing it because they want an 'under' on a season win total.
What is reasonably possible is the general manager/head coach using the medical opinions differently depending on their goals. The coach always wants to win, the gm sometimes sees the bigger picture of losing helping your draft position.
Quote: gordonm888The universal tactic in sports is to do everything via oral conversations, and if any allegations come out then deny, deny, deny.
And what could players sue for? They are getting paid in full in accordance with their contract. Team is simply following advice of medical doctors. Doctors are issuing their opinions and "erring on the side of the medical well-being of the athlete." Proving anything in court -without a wholesale confession by one of the doctors - would be extremely difficult.
If NBA rules have been recently changed to prevent obvious tanking via benching star players, then this scenario actually does make sense.
And, NO, the book's 27.5 win line was almost certainly not influenced by such a strategy. That is not plausible.
Whats your opinion on the bookies anticipating these potential tanking efforts by the bulls, which is why the line was so low at 27.5? Something was fishy when I first saw that line. Or maybe they knew Markannen was having elbow pain which eventually resulted in a 6-8 week elbow sprain?
Quote: SOOPOOI've known team docs for our NFL and NHL teams. They tend to be successful orthopedic surgeons. I would guess they make somewhere in the low 7 figures. I cannot conceive of them putting a fake diagnosis on someone because they are 'told' by someone to. And that someone is doing it because they want an 'under' on a season win total.
What is reasonably possible is the general manager/head coach using the medical opinions differently depending on their goals. The coach always wants to win, the gm sometimes sees the bigger picture of losing helping your draft position.
I don't know how it is with other teams in other areas, but in NY, Doctors bid for the right to be the teams Doctor. Believe it or not, a team like the NY Mets took the low bid for a medical group when deciding the team Drs. Drs get all sorts of publicity about being the team physician. After a series of misdiagnoses and several star players being out much longer than expected, the Mets reversed this policy.
When the Islanders changed practice facilities about ten years ago, my friend was offered a chance to be the official masseur of the Islanders. $50,000 and free massages for all uniformed employees. He passed.
Quote: gordonm888The universal tactic in sports is to do everything via oral conversations, and if any allegations come out then deny, deny, deny.
And what could players sue for? They are getting paid in full in accordance with their contract. .
I'm neither a doctor nor a lawyer.
But my guess is, I'd the player felt healthy and was being told he wasn't, he might see another doctor. That doc could doccument that the sprain or tear did not exist.
Players with injury history get worse contracts and perhaps worse endorsements. Don't do Nike much good for you to wear a suit on the sideline. Since the fraud would cost players a lot of money, my guess is they could sue.
Now, if all you are suggesting is that the team would be more conservative on injuries because this season is lost, they can and do do this openly. Nothing really wrong with it.
Quote: unJonGolden State didn’t shave any points against the Bulls tonight!
If those players sitting out with fake injuries had played, it would’ve been a whole different story
Quote: unJonGolden State didn’t shave any points against the Bulls tonight!
Well, they actually did, sort of. After being up 50 or so they pulled all their real players and put in the G league guys, who got destroyed. They only won by 20 or so. I don't know what the spread was (16?) but there ay have been a teaser affected.
My point is that they certainly didn't 'shave points', but Kerr DEFINITELY did not try to win by as many points as possible. Not bad having Klay Thompson as your 4th best player.....
Quote: SOOPOOWell, they actually did, sort of. After being up 50 or so they pulled all their real players and put in the G league guys, who got destroyed. They only won by 20 or so. I don't know what the spread was (16?) but there ay have been a teaser affected.
My point is that they certainly didn't 'shave points', but Kerr DEFINITELY did not try to win by as many points as possible. Not bad having Klay Thompson as your 4th best player.....
The line was 11 and GS won by 25. would have to be a hellavu teaser . . .
Quote: unJonThe line was 11 and GS won by 25. would have to be a hellavu teaser . . .
The line was 11? I can't imagine putting a dollar on the Bulls with all their injuries with less than 3 points per quarter against GS.
Quote: ZenKinGWhats your opinion on the bookies anticipating these potential tanking efforts by the bulls, which is why the line was so low at 27.5? Something was fishy when I first saw that line. Or maybe they knew Markannen was having elbow pain which eventually resulted in a 6-8 week elbow sprain?
I think when setting that kind of line the bookies must take into account the possibility that bad teams will tank in order to get lottery picks - using whatever tanking tactics they might get away with, depending upon the rules in any given year.
There have been some insightful posts on this subject so I am now less certain that tanking via "conservative" medical opinions is strong possibility. However, there are so many accounts over the years of doctors and trainers supplying performancing-enhancing drugs to athletes that I am not used to thinking of "team medical staff" as being the most virtuous people on earth.
The Colts did the same thing with Andrew Luck.
Question Presented: Are professional soccer referees from four European leagues more likely to give red card immediate ejection penalties to persons of dark skin than they are to persons of light skin.
SOLE Data Set: 2014 season.
Participants: 29 teams of 61 data analysts and medical researchers, statisticians.
The ANSWER: No one able to agree on a response. No one able to agree on proper metrics or methodology.
No one able to deal with uncertainty. Experts who focus on scientific evidence no better than palm readers in answering this question. One question and one data set no agreement.
provided data implicating high official involved in soccer corruption.
murdered in Ghana.
msnbc newsfeed.
Quote: FleaStiffThe DEFINITIVE answer.
Question Presented: Are professional soccer referees from four European leagues more likely to give red card immediate ejection penalties to persons of dark skin than they are to persons of light skin.
SOLE Data Set: 2014 season.
Participants: 29 teams of 61 data analysts and medical researchers, statisticians.
The ANSWER: No one able to agree on a response. No one able to agree on proper metrics or methodology.
No one able to deal with uncertainty. Experts who focus on scientific evidence no better than palm readers in answering this question. One question and one data set no agreement.
I speculate that is because it wasn't defined by what level of confidence you declare a bias. Also, how is it defined how dark "dark skin" is?
There was a rumor a few years ago that the some tennis federation hired investigators to look into match fixing. The found so much was going on that the tennis group quietly dropped the investigation.
There was a rumor that there had been a soccer match in some remote place in Asia that was not even played. Two guys at the local radio station made a broadcast of the soccer match as if it was live. Some of the Asian books took bets on the game.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-man-called-maestro-paid-over-100-tennis-players-to-fix-matches-4-frenchmen-arrested-2019-01-16
Quote: RigondeauxThinking that the leagues are operating in concert with the books is a symptom of your paranoia.
I've explained several times why this is practically impossible if you think it through. But you have to have the ability to think clearly about the real world.
I believe smaller leagues and college games can be fixed, but not as some grand conspiracy to make YOU loose. A college PG with no future in the pros could build a little nest egg shaving points here and there.
It's still a bit harder to get away with than it seems if you think it through.
More importantly, it will have a negligible impact on your EV. Could help or hurt you just as easily. A rigged cointoss where neither side knows.
It's likely more common overseas as the punishments seem to be light or non existent, as in the tennis scandal. Here it's treated much more seriously.
Exactly.
disagreeing about the origin of a league and its devices , has nothing to do with paranoia or mental illness.
no bookie or vegas bookie has any more ability then you and i to pick a spread.. and yet they are constantly near that line. that is direct evidence its staged, if you actually have the critical thinking skills you say you do. you cant call something a coincidence 200 times a month ( also, there is no such thing as coincidence.. they teach you that in the first week of military intelligence training)
i'm 54 and watched sports since i was a child. 4 years ago i realized it was nothing more than entertainment and not competition. i still watch sports to investigate it and prove to myself.. the fact is, if sports were real.. you wouldnt have last seconds , close ooutcomes every week. they would be rare.
QBs wouldnt and couldnt last 20 years. there would actually be ugly super stars because the league would only care about talent. since tv took over, no one who lasts and is popular, is ugly lol.
Quote: RigondeauxI'm neither a doctor nor a lawyer.
But my guess is, I'd the player felt healthy and was being told he wasn't, he might see another doctor. That doc could doccument that the sprain or tear did not exist.
Players with injury history get worse contracts and perhaps worse endorsements. Don't do Nike much good for you to wear a suit on the sideline. Since the fraud would cost players a lot of money, my guess is they could sue.
Now, if all you are suggesting is that the team would be more conservative on injuries because this season is lost, they can and do do this openly. Nothing really wrong with it.
lol players dont get second opinions. they do exactly as they are told if they want to keep making pro money. Or the league will just drop them.
dumb jock vs billionaires.. that game is the ultimate fix
Quote: ZenKinGSome of your questions make sense, others do not. First off a stakeholder in CET would never know about it if something like this was happening. I already said I might be reaching a bit with this, but the same questions you're asking now would have failed miserably if you were asking those questions at the time the Knicks players were being paid off behind the scenes. Why would those players risk their careers? They did it anyway. Just like the President of Enron risked his career as well as refs in several sports. If people like you always want to rule everything out, then things like this will happen and you will be left dumbfounded. Learn to question everything when there is serious money involved. Sometimes things that seem out of the realm of possibility are happening right in front of your eyes. Also quit trying to downplay the amount of money at stake in this prop of the bulls over 27.5, you don't know how much is involved, so quit trying to say it's a low amount just to fit your argument. You also don't even know how much underground money is involved either. You're just talking about what's on the books. It's a shady world out there, especially in the world of the casino industry. Don't forget what Vegas was built upon. The same family bloodlines are still in work today working for these very same casinos.
Also regarding seeing a doctor, the last thing Ill ever see is a doctor who was unable to think for himself and just simply memorized the information given to him in a textbook just like you see with collegiate law students. Intelligence doesn't come from memorizing information in a book. If a dog could read, he also could memorize the same information. True intelligence comes from the ability to be able to think critically about what is going on around you. That's what separates us from every other creature in the world. The ability to THINK, the ability to think CRITICALLY, the ability to plan for tomorrow, etc. Go see if a dog understands the premise of tomorrow or the week after. They live in the present and that's all they care about.
Sure, sometimes I might be grasping at straws with some of the assertions I make, but the point is you can't truly rule anything out. I just laugh at the people who immediately try to 'label' you and call you insane or to go see a doctor. This is the product of what society has trained us to think of people with anything questioning the norm or what they have tried to ingrain in our heads since a young age. These people are only 'insane' when the world is asleep to what is actually going on. When the truth unveils itself, these 'insane' people turn out to be the geniuses. Funny how that works. Go ahead and remind me of what they said about Galileo when he claimed the world was a sphere while everyone including the government said it was flat. What happened after that?
last paragraph, yay
