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Pinit2winit
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December 8th, 2015 at 1:52:31 PM permalink
Wizard, What do you feel about taking an early line Titans @ +7.5.... i feel like that line is going to get pounded down to at least +5.5
Ayecarumba
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December 8th, 2015 at 2:08:14 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

Going back to last week's betting; why is WH so reluctant to take any cards? Even people betting $3 were getting approval pending from the machine. Where they hit hard by the Wizard, or other sharp bettors?

The fact that small bets were also slow indicates the problem was probably heavy network traffic, not necessarily the need for human review. However, I don't know what actually goes on behind the curtain at WH. I thought they were just a huge server farm.
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djatc
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December 8th, 2015 at 2:18:05 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

The fact that small bets were also slow indicates the problem was probably heavy network traffic, not necessarily the need for human review. However, I don't know what actually goes on behind the curtain at WH. I thought they were just a huge server farm.



What were some possible factors? The over and -5.5 on the Steelers game?
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Ayecarumba
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December 8th, 2015 at 2:46:36 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

What were some possible factors? The over and -5.5 on the Steelers game?

Windy conditions? Squirrels chewing on the lines, folks downloading Kitty videos...

Does anyone really think an actual person at William Hill needs to review a single $3 card?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wizard
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December 8th, 2015 at 3:07:03 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

Going back to last week's betting; why is WH so reluctant to take any cards? Even people betting $3 were getting approval pending from the machine. Where they hit hard by the Wizard, or other sharp bettors?



I don't know for sure but last week was a good week and maybe they were getting nervous with too much action on the same sides. Then again, I've seen that happen before and the cards just flew through, especially at Hooters.
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Wizard
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December 8th, 2015 at 3:10:24 PM permalink
Quote: Pinit2winit

Wizard, What do you feel about taking an early line Titans @ +7.5.... i feel like that line is going to get pounded down to at least +5.5



I almost never forecast line movements. Sorry -- no opinion.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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December 8th, 2015 at 3:15:36 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

The fact that small bets were also slow indicates the problem was probably heavy network traffic, not necessarily the need for human review. However, I don't know what actually goes on behind the curtain at WH. I thought they were just a huge server farm.



I do think there is human review. If tickets under $x are automatically approved, then the sharp bettors will just put in lots of them for the highest amount that flies under the radar.

Other places seem to have a "s&#t list" they tell their writers. If they see the picks from the SL on every card, they just say "no." A lot faster than the card by card approval at WH.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ayecarumba
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December 8th, 2015 at 3:31:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I do think there is human review. If tickets under $x are automatically approved, then the sharp bettors will just put in lots of them for the highest amount that flies under the radar.

Other places seem to have a "s&#t list" they tell their writers. If they see the picks from the SL on every card, they just say "no." A lot faster than the card by card approval at WH.



I imagine that the system is set so that an alarm goes off when certain thresholds (number of bets, Total $ action on a side, etc.) are crossed, but I always thought the programming was supposed to change the odds on the fly based on their proprietary algorithms. Perhaps with these fixed cards, the best response is to stall, in an attempt to limit the late action, rather than reject all cards outright.

It could also be the case that all action is held up in a queue while cards in the pipeline are reviewed. This would be the crazy way to do it though. How many cards would a sharp need to submit if the "live eyes required" threshold was $20?
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Rigondeaux
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December 8th, 2015 at 3:42:33 PM permalink
Quote: Pinit2winit

Wizard, What do you feel about taking an early line Titans @ +7.5.... i feel like that line is going to get pounded down to at least +5.5



You're probably just gambling if you do something like this. If you really knew that the line was this far off, and that it would move, I guess the play would be to bet the crap out of it now and then possibly middle it.
Mooseton
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December 8th, 2015 at 6:28:59 PM permalink
In my limited experience betting these cards, I have noticed that it seems like my 'writer' or sports book employee presses a button sometimes to override the long delay or denial when he runs the card. Seems like it depends if he feels like it. Or if you tipped him recently on a win. Seems like a typical craps dealer 'grease' situation.

Then again, I would have banked a 'Lot' more last week if all my cards were accepted. (Most of my cards were denied last weekend.)
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
Rigondeaux
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December 8th, 2015 at 7:22:40 PM permalink
I doubt a bet writer can veto the guys backstage.

As an aside, a writer told me the "traders" make $60 an hour. Seems like a lot. It's not as if they're really handicapping anything. Should just be a matter of balancing out their own action and the "true" lines offshore. But I don't really know.

I put in $10 cards about 20 at a time. I get delayed all the time but haven't been rejected yet this season.


Quote: z2newton

If a line is a PK but 54% of the people betting are on one side that would be good to know. I'm wondering if there is a way to figure that out. I don't really know but do any online books show how much action(meaning number of people) are betting on one side? Probably not.

maybe I'm overthinking this.



I wouldn't worry about it, especially with parlay cards. Some think if the ticket count is high on one side, it means the bigger and (probably) sharper bets are on the other side. But you're looking for more like a 70/30 split and I just don't think it's that easy. Might be something to consider on a straight bet, but I doubt you can win just by doing that. And how do we know the numbers are correct anyway?

Same with VI consensus and all that. VI is including WH, Stations and sportsbook.ag. Books that cater to losing players.

Pinnacle takes something like $50,000 per bet and allegedly doesn't care who bets it. Who is going to end up with the more accurate numbers?
NokTang
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December 9th, 2015 at 7:45:21 PM permalink
Quote: Mooseton


(Most of my cards were denied last weekend.)



Where was this and what sort of money are you talking about(wager size)?

This "sportsbook" should be shut down for impersonating a sportsbook. It should also be boycotted and hacked. It isn't "us vs them", it's a sportsbook, either they take wagers or they don't unless of course a printing error, a serious error, which rarely happens. I'm disgusted.

Have a nice day.
TomG
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December 9th, 2015 at 9:28:26 PM permalink
If a sportsbook could be shut down for not taking action there would be no sportsbooks in Nevada
NokTang
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:17:11 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

If a sportsbook could be shut down for not taking action there would be no sportsbooks in Nevada



The context was a parlay card they had printed, with no errors. A game off the board might also qualify as being off the cards. However, the poster indicated his/her cards were simply rejected for no reason other than I guess a line move on one or more games? Disgusting and worthy of being shut down and worse as outlined.
Rigondeaux
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December 10th, 2015 at 1:11:49 AM permalink
So if the Patriots lose all of their starters to food poisoning and the line moves 14 points, the book just has to let everyone print money? That's not really good for anyone in the long term. Ideally, they are profitable while also being beatable. If they aren't profitable, they close.

Sort of a fun scenario to imagine, though. People might be buying and selling blank parlay cards.

Also, WH is actually pretty freaking good about these things. They'll let you have some big moves. CP, with crappy payouts, will take 7-8 college games off the board for fairly insignificant moves. I think they are so cautious they cost themselves money.
Mooseton
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December 10th, 2015 at 2:48:54 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang

Where was this and what sort of money are you talking about(wager size)?

This "sportsbook" should be shut down for impersonating a sportsbook. It should also be boycotted and hacked. It isn't "us vs them", it's a sportsbook, either they take wagers or they don't unless of course a printing error, a serious error, which rarely happens. I'm disgusted.

Have a nice day.



At different will hill books. $40 tickets. I have this problem every week I do these. Last weekend I had Pitt and the over on a lot of them. The lines moved quite a bit on that game so it makes sense. Plus, Pit covered and it went over so in hindsight I would have made quite a bit more if they took all my tickets.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
TomG
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December 10th, 2015 at 6:23:07 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang

Disgusting and worthy of being shut down and worse as outlined.



Is that what the gaming commission thinks?

Is there a single Nevada sportsbook that has parlay cards doesn't reject some of them every week?

(places like Cantor that don't have parlay cards have no problem rejecting off the board bets)
Wizard
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December 10th, 2015 at 11:39:48 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang

However, the poster indicated his/her cards were simply rejected for no reason other than I guess a line move on one or more games? Disgusting and worthy of being shut down and worse as outlined.



This has been discussed before. What happened to the OP is not unusual when putting in these cards and you're on the hot side of every pick.

However, much like card counting, I think it best for both sides to allow the cat and mouse game. If there were a law that a sports book had to accept every parlay card, then they just wouldn't offer them at all. Even if you allowed them to take games off the cards, but they couldn't cherry pick what cards to accept that were compliant with staying off circled games, they might still put out cards, but they would make the odds so terrible that sharp players wouldn't bother with them.
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Wizard
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December 10th, 2015 at 11:41:19 AM permalink
Here are is the week 14 William Hill card:

Top of card

Bottom of card

That line of Ariz -8.5 is very temping -- worth 23 basis points.

Here are the lines in table form.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
Min +8.5 Ariz 10.5
Pit +2.5 Cin 3 (-120)
Phil +1.5 Buffalo 1
Alt +7.5 Car 7.5
SF +1.5 Clev 1.5
Wash +3.5 Chic +3 (+105)
Det +0.5 StL -2.5
SD +10.5 KC 10
NO +3.5 TB 4
Jack +0.5 Indy PK
Tenn +7.5 NYJ +7 (-105)
Hou +3.5 NEP 3.5 (-120)
Oak +7.5 Den 7.5 (-120)
Dal +7.5 GB 7
Bal +7.5 Sea 9.5
Mia +1.5 NYG 1


Here is an early look at my picks, as of noon on Thursday.

Pick Basis Points
Ariz -8.5 23
Dal +7.5 17
Det +0.5 16
Cin -2.5 14
SD +10.5 14
Tenn +7.5 12
Sea -7.5 11
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ayecarumba
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December 10th, 2015 at 12:52:58 PM permalink
Tenn +7.5 w/market 7.0 (-105) is the same 11 basis points as Sea -7.5 w/market -9.5? Is a -5 discount on the vig worth 2 points on the spread?
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Pinit2winit
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December 10th, 2015 at 1:08:23 PM permalink
@wizard i wake up to see this and read william hill already @-10.5
Wizard
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December 10th, 2015 at 2:01:48 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Tenn +7.5 w/market 7.0 (-105) is the same 11 basis points as Sea -7.5 w/market -9.5? Is a -5 discount on the vig worth 2 points on the spread?



Ten +7.5 should have been 12: The half point off 7 is worth 14. Then deduct 5 points for being 5 points on the ugly side. Then add 3 for being an underdog 14-5+3=12.

A half point off of 9 with worth 2, and off of 8 is worth 5. Then, deduct 3 for being a favorite. 5+5+2+2-3=11.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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December 12th, 2015 at 12:17:20 PM permalink
I hope you guys didn't bet Ariz -8.5, preferring to wait until today. If so, here is an updated look at the lines. I hear that the Seattle game was taken off the cards.

Pick Basis Points
Det -0.5 47
Oak +7.5 31
Dal +7.5 31
Tenn +7.5 12
TB -3.5 11
Cin -2.5 8
Phil +1.5 8


So, three very strong picks. I think I'll put Det, Oak, and Dal on all my cards and round robin the other four picks above.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GWAE
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December 12th, 2015 at 12:41:42 PM permalink
Maybe i don't understand how these work since i am not in vegas and don't get to play, but why are the line so different. Like Dallas is on these cards at 7.5 but the current line is something like 3. Does that mean the line started at 7.5 but has Moved? If that is the case then why don't the casinos use current lines when you play these?
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Wizard
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December 12th, 2015 at 12:48:38 PM permalink
Here is an updated look at the market lines.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
Pit +2.5 Cin 3 (-120)
Phil +1.5 Buffalo PK
Alt +7.5 Car 8.5
SF +1.5 Clev 1.5
Wash +3.5 Chic 3.5
StL +0.5 Det -3 (-120)
SD +10.5 KC 10.5
NO +3.5 TB 4.5
Jack +0.5 Indy -1
Tenn +7.5 NYJ +7 (-105)
Hou +3.5 NEP 3.5
Oak +7.5 Den 6.5
Dal +7.5 GB 6.5
Mia +1.5 NYG 1.5


Quote: GWAE

Maybe i don't understand how these work since i am not in vegas and don't get to play, but why are the line so different. Like Dallas is on these cards at 7.5 but the current line is something like 3. Does that mean the line started at 7.5 but has Moved? If that is the case then why don't the casinos use current lines when you play these?



These things are printed on Thursday so they would have to do a new printing to change a line.

I could see the day where the casino don't use paper cards at all. Instead players will put them in electronically and the lines will be adjusted on an as-needed basis in real time. It would not be hard hard to let the player have any spread on any game, with the odds calibrated automatically. If I ran a sports book, especially an online one, I would do that.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GWAE
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December 12th, 2015 at 1:32:58 PM permalink
Well that is just silly that us non Nevada people can't play. I assume this doesn't exist at any online sportsbooks.
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shrimpboatcapt
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December 12th, 2015 at 1:59:05 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Well that is just silly that us non Nevada people can't play. I assume this doesn't exist at any online sportsbooks.



Daily fantasy sports is available if you want a similar parlay betting experience.
GWAE
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December 12th, 2015 at 2:04:00 PM permalink
Quote: shrimpboatcapt

Daily fantasy sports is available if you want a similar parlay betting experience.



How is that similar?
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shrimpboatcapt
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December 12th, 2015 at 2:09:10 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

How is that similar?



Risk a little to win a lot. Pick the outcomes of multiple events. Isolate strong plays. Stack good matchups. Get lucky.
z2newton
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December 13th, 2015 at 10:40:23 AM permalink
Good luck every body. It could be a really good week. I couldn't get any cards in at all. They weren't rejected. I went too late and the attendant had already gone home for the night but that's ok because I can just use the WH kiosk. There was some error that lasted at least a few hours before I said screw it. I'm not hanging out for 8-10 hours for the guy to come in the morning and drove home.
Wizard
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December 13th, 2015 at 12:32:58 PM permalink
Anybody who was riding my coattails can probably just rip up their tickets now. I think I'd have a lot of hope if I picked the opposite way on each game.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ibeatyouraces
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December 13th, 2015 at 1:44:20 PM permalink
I just saw that Detroit was a favorite. They wouldn't be a favorite against a pee-wee team in my book!

Again, I just love ragging on this pathetic home team of mine :-D
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Pinit2winit
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December 13th, 2015 at 2:03:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Anybody who was riding my coattails can probably just rip up their tickets now. I think I'd have a lot of hope if I picked the opposite way on each game.



My first 1000 dollar loss betting. Dang lions. If there was a prop bet on how many times the team choke ide take the over every time.
Wizard
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December 13th, 2015 at 2:05:18 PM permalink
Quote: Pinit2winit

Dang lions. If there was a prop bet on how many times the team choke ide take the over every time.



I will never forgive them for that loss to Green Bay. Never!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Rigondeaux
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December 13th, 2015 at 4:52:00 PM permalink
A really big week for Sklansky bucks. Still trying to find a retailer who accepts them.
FunkyDoctor
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December 13th, 2015 at 4:59:15 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Well that is just silly that us non Nevada people can't play. I assume this doesn't exist at any online sportsbooks.



The problem with trying to do this online is that they will update the lines that you can bet online as the market moves. The advantage is in that in Vegas, the cards are made available on the Thursday before the weekend and the lines are carved in stone on the card. As the market betting lines continue to move as Sunday kickoff approaches, you can still bet the line on the card and pick whichever side is now in your favor.

With the online sites, the betting lines are never carved in stone and continually adjust. Even the casinos here in Vegas do that if you try to use their online app to put the bet in. The advantage is in the paper card.

In certain cases where the line move is extreme (like with the Seahawks game this week), the casinos will sometimes no longer allow you to bet that game, even though it is still showing on the card.

It may be possible to find options online where the line you can bet is half a point off from the market line, which is done to prevent ties. If there are enough options to get half a point off the key numbers like 3 or 7, you might be able to create an advantage online.
Wizard
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December 18th, 2015 at 7:24:40 AM permalink
Ready for week 15? Here is the William Hill card. Click on either image for a larger version.



"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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December 19th, 2015 at 7:35:45 PM permalink
Here are the picks and market lines as of Saturday night. The card says Houston is TBD, and I don't know what they determined.

Chic +5.5 Minn 5.5
Atl +3.5 Jack 3
Hou ? Indy 0
Bal +7.5 KC 6.5
Wash +1.5 Buff 2
Ten +14.5 NEP 14
Phil +3.5 Ariz 3.5
NYG +5.5 Car 4
Clev +14.5 Sea 15
Oak +3.5 GB 3.5
Mia +1.5 SD 1.5
Den +6.5 Pitt 6.5
SF +4.5 Cin 6
Det +3.5 NO 3 (-120)


Only five worthy picks this week:

Pick Basis Points
Atl +3.5 24
Bal +7.5 31
NYG +5.5 18
Cin -4.5 12
Det +3.5 34
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Pinit2winit
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December 20th, 2015 at 1:53:21 PM permalink
How do you feel about OBJ and Norman not getting ejected?
Mooseton
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December 20th, 2015 at 6:38:49 PM permalink
What a bunch of trash.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
Wizard
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December 24th, 2015 at 5:32:22 PM permalink
Time for week 16. Here is the William Hill card and fair lines as of Thursday evening.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
NYG +5.5 Min 5.5
Chic +3.5 TB 3
Atl +7.5 Car +7 (-120)
Dal +6.5 Buff 6
Jack +? NO 3.5
SF +9.5 Det 9.5
Indy +? Mia 2.5 (-105)
NYJ +3.5 NEP +3 (-105)
Tenn +? Hou -4.5
GB +4.5 Ariz 4.5
StL +13.5 Sea 13.5
Bal +10.5 Pitt 10
Cin +3.5 Den +3.5 (-120)


If anyone can report on what WH decided on for the Jacksonville and Tennessee games, please report it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Pinit2winit
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December 24th, 2015 at 11:46:58 PM permalink
On pro progressive saints -3 texans -4.

Edit. Dolphins -1 also. Noticed it wasn't there either.
z2newton
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December 26th, 2015 at 1:55:21 PM permalink
Anyone know if WH has lines on the NO, KC, Mia and Ten. games for the 1/2 point cards?
Wizard
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December 26th, 2015 at 3:04:58 PM permalink
Here is an updated look at the fair lines for week 16.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
NYG +5.5 Min 6.5
Chic +3.5 TB 3.5
Atl +7.5 Car 6.5
Dal +6.5 Buff 6.5
Jack +? NO +3 (+105)
SF +9.5 Det 10
Indy +? Mia 2.5
NYJ +3.5 NEP 3
Tenn +? Hou 3.5
GB +4.5 Ariz 4.5
StL +13.5 Sea 12.5
Bal +10.5 Pitt 10
Cin +3.5 Den +3.5 (-115)


While Atl +7.5 and NYJ are great plays, there aren't enough other plays to combine them with. I think I'll sit out this week, pending on if I hear anything for the Indy and Jack games.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
SOOPOO
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December 28th, 2015 at 8:16:27 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Here is an updated look at the fair lines for week 16.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
NYG +5.5 Min 6.5
Chic +3.5 TB 3.5
Atl +7.5 Car 6.5
Dal +6.5 Buff 6.5
Jack +? NO +3 (+105)
SF +9.5 Det 10
Indy +? Mia 2.5
NYJ +3.5 NEP 3
Tenn +? Hou 3.5
GB +4.5 Ariz 4.5
StL +13.5 Sea 12.5
Bal +10.5 Pitt 10
Cin +3.5 Den +3.5 (-115)


While Atl +7.5 and NYJ are great plays, there aren't enough other plays to combine them with. I think I'll sit out this week, pending on if I hear anything for the Indy and Jack games.



I hope you changed your mind and grabbed a few teams to go with the Jets and Falcons!
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 31st, 2015 at 5:01:13 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I hope you changed your mind and grabbed a few teams to go with the Jets and Falcons!



Nope. Totally sat out last week.

Time for the last viable week of the half-point cards for this season.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
Buff +3.5 NYJ 3
TB +10.5 Car 10.5
Mia +10.5 NEP 10
Bal +9.5 Cin 9
NO +4.5 Atl 4.5
Jack +6.5 Hou 6.5
Clev +9.5 Pitt 11
Oak +6.5 KC 7
Tenn -- TBD Indy 6
Wash -- TBD Dal 4
Det +0.5 Chic 1
Phil +3.5 NYG 3.5 (-115)
Minn +3.5 GB 3 (EV)
SD +9.5 Den 9
SF +3.5 StL 3.5
Sea +6.5 Ariz 6.5


Good picks so far:

Buff +3.5
Pitt -9.5
KC -6.5
Min +3.5

Hopefully more will ripen by Saturday.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 2nd, 2016 at 12:05:04 PM permalink
Lets have an updated look at week 17 as of Saturday afternoon.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
Buff +3.5 NYJ 3
TB +10.5 Car 11
Mia +10.5 NEP 9.5
Bal +9.5 Cin 9.5
NO +4.5 Atl 5.5
Jack +6.5 Hou 6.5
Clev +9.5 Pitt 11
Oak +6.5 KC 7
Tenn -- TBD Indy 6
Wash -- TBD Dal 4
Det +0.5 Chic PK
Phil +3.5 NYG 4
Minn +3.5 GB 3 (EV)
SD +9.5 Den 9
SF +3.5 StL 3.5
Sea +6.5 Ariz 6.5


Four solid picks this week. I include two more, just as fillers

Pick Basis Points
Buf +3.5 24
Mia +10.5 24
Pitt -9.5 24
KC -6.5 11
NYG -3.5 4
Atl -4.5 5
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
beachbumbabs
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January 2nd, 2016 at 2:52:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Lets have an updated look at week 17 as of Saturday afternoon.

Underdog Favorite Market on Underdog
Buff +3.5 NYJ 3
TB +10.5 Car 11
Mia +10.5 NEP 9.5
Bal +9.5 Cin 9.5
NO +4.5 Atl 5.5
Jack +6.5 Hou 6.5
Clev +9.5 Pitt 11
Oak +6.5 KC 7
Tenn -- TBD Indy 6
Wash -- TBD Dal 4
Det +0.5 Chic PK
Phil +3.5 NYG 4
Minn +3.5 GB 3 (EV)
SD +9.5 Den 9
SF +3.5 StL 3.5
Sea +6.5 Ariz 6.5


Four solid picks this week. I include two more, just as fillers

Pick Basis Points
Buf +3.5 24
Mia +10.5 24
Pitt -9.5 24
KC -6.5 11
NYG -3.5 4
Atl -4.5 5



When you first discussed this week above, you had MIN as a good pick. Now you have MIA. Is there a typo, or did the opportunity change?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
GWAE
GWAE
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January 2nd, 2016 at 3:25:57 PM permalink
I hope you are right on the buffet pick, well I hope they win outright actually.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Pinit2winit
Pinit2winit
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January 3rd, 2016 at 4:58:26 PM permalink
Hope you went big on the first 3 everyone! i did not but 72 points on a 3 team is pretty darn good.
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