NHL Playoff Pool

Quote: Face

Mine was match ups. I don't think Pittsburgh is strong, just stronger than who they play / who I think they will play.

Cindy Crosby is the Tom Brady of the NHL. I surely hope they face the most crushing of defeats, and I will gladly take the loss of points in exchange for the joy of them losing to the ridiculous Bluejackets.

mlm

Quote: tringlomane

How did Pittsburgh get the highest rating?

When I read about the penguins on the Internet, I get reminded of the common quote from 2+2 poker: "LOL Fleury". Barely beat Columbus last night.

Pretty much what FACE said. I was hoping to get a couple of parlays on the East and West winners of the first round using the wisdom of the crowds, but Bodog doesn't let me parlay the series winners. Oh well. I've had a little success in the past using pool ratings in the NFL. Of the five I did get on, only St Louis is the underdog.

I may also have money of the Red Wings, but foolishness abounds...

Quote: GWAE

mlm

LOL! XD

Don't make me post every single reason why the guy deserves a lifetime of face punches. Trust me, I have them all right here... ;)

Quote: Face

LOL! XD

Don't make me post every single reason why the guy deserves a lifetime of face punches. Trust me, I have them all right here... ;)

There's many people who'd agree with you... apart from the winning goal at the 2010 Olympics gives him a free pass up here for life.

Quote: Face

Mine was match ups. I don't think Pittsburgh is strong, just stronger than who they play / who I think they will play.

Cindy Crosby is the Tom Brady of the NHL. I surely hope they face the most crushing of defeats, and I will gladly take the loss of points in exchange for the joy of them losing to the ridiculous Bluejackets.

I know you're an admin and all, but this post should be a bannable offense!

Quote: Lemieux66

I know you're an admin and all, but this post should be a bannable offense!

I am held under the same rules as y'all. And despite my sig line / disclaimer, I can back up every bit of this opinion with stone cold facts. Crosby is one of the biggest embarrassments to ever lace up a pair of skates. He is an offense to the NHL and all ice hockey players around the world. The fact that his skills are as unmatched as they are isn't a free pass; it's a tragedy. The very idea that he has even one fan is proof that god does not exist and the universe is chaos. I fart in his general direction.

Edit: Just so you know, Lemieux, I dislike the Pens about as much as I dislike the Patriots, that is to say, not much at all. Hatred of a person doesn't translate into hatred of an organization. Just wanted to make that clear so I avoid a slot on your "list of people to kill" ;)

I would like to hear 1 story of why he is such a bad person. I am by no means defending him but I have never heard 1 thing bad said about him. Whenever I watch a Pens game that is played in any Canadian city he always gets cheered.

Quote: GWAE

looks like if the West conf finals are LA vs chic I will have this locked up.

Anything is possible....but my prediction is LA won't get through SJ or Anaheim....let alone both.

Quote: GWAE

I would like to hear 1 story of why he is such a bad person. I am by no means defending him but I have never heard 1 thing bad said about him. Whenever I watch a Pens game that is played in any Canadian city he always gets cheered.

Oh, man. Here we go.

Let me preface this by saying that I in no way, shape, or form deny the man of his skills. He is premier in that department, possibly one of the best in his time.

There. Now that that's taken care of...



Crosby is the antithesis of everything that hockey is. There is a code of conduct that runs deeper than any of us here can understand, and he defecates upon it more times than I've ever seen a man do so before.

Hockey is honor. There are plenty of thugs, goons, misanthropes, and malcontents, sure, but they all follow the code. You have a Matt Barnaby type, and he fits a particular accepted mold. He's an instigator, a pest, a thorn there to get under your skin and throw you off your game. That is accepted, and it is known. He's one of a long list of these types - Sean Avery, Claude Lemieux, Pat Verbeek, the list goes on.

There are plenty of hateful, hurtful fellows as well. Your Domi's, your Probert's, your Grimson's, your McSorely's. They fit the mold. If they're on the ice, it's to send a message, and that message is if one wants to act in a certain way, several face punches are going to result. It is accepted, it is known.

You have your emotional leaders. Guys that are there for the team and not only give 100%, they cause everyone else around them to give their 100%. Mario Lemieux, Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman... they're the generals on the ice. It is known.

Then there's the fancy boys. Guys that'll dance out of 5 men and score, that have a blade made of dynamite. Datsyuk, Giroux, Kopitar, Ovechkin... guys that'll leave you standing there thinking "wtf just happened". It is known.

Sidney "Crybaby Cindy" Crosby is none of the above. He's not a warrior. He's not a leader. He's not a tough guy, and he has no honor. He is a P.O.S.

He dives over the most incidental of contacts. Diving is possibly the worst offense in all of sports. If you're hurt, you go to the bench. If you're concussed, ribs are broken, leg is broken, you go to the bench. If you're Clint Malarchuk and get your head cut off, you reach up, pinch your jugular together so you don't die, and you go to the bench. If someone pokes you and you curl up in agony like a wooly bear caterpillar, you need to stay your ass on the soccer field.

He's a cheapshot artist, and I use artist sarcastically. You can hit and hack and slash all you want. About all I do personally on the ice is hack the ish out of people. But when you engage in contact, only two recourses are acceptable - be a fancy boy that has a goon in their pocket, or man up and accept the punishment that results. He'll hack the ish out of someone, and when retribution comes, he either turtles up or hides behind the stripes. That is unacceptable.

And if you're gonna instigate, instigate. Sacrifice your own freedom to take another man off the ice. Instigating is an art; one only need look to the god of instigating himself, Matt Barnaby. But when you write checks your ass can't cash, and summarily start a scrum that gets your whole team involved and sends others to the penalty box, then you deserve to be shamed. You deserve to be bench. You deserve to be a healthy scratch. Oh, but not the princess. Oh, no.

And if you're gonna fight, then fight. Get separation, drop the gloves, and dance. Cindy's "fights" involve either jumping a guy that ain't ready or scrumming with a guy with gloves on, which riles everyone else and sends all of his guys to the box.

Seriously, I could go on all day. I could link enough YouTube videos of Crosby's antics, interviews with coaches, and even God Himself Don Cherry to crash the entire intertron, every one of which supports my view. The dude's got skills, I don't deny it. But his actions serve only to piss on everything ice hockey stands for.

Nah, tell us how you *really* feel! [g]

I never liked the guy, just for the record. I kind of laid off him though, when he was out with the concussion thing for so long. Maybe you will get me going again on the dude.

Quote: GWAE

looks like if the West conf finals are LA vs chic I will have this locked up.

If LAK make it that far then the polar vortex will still be here in July

It's just jealousy. Anyone would want Crosby on their team and since he isn't people feel free to rant. I don't even pay attention.

Quote: RaleighCraps

If LAK make it that far then the polar vortex will still be here in July

Down 5-2 in the 3rd right now to (Humberto Brenes accent) De Chark! I had a smile on my face when sportsbettor sharp LarryS talked so highly about them.

I was happy that the Blues escaped in game 1...best effort they've put in in weeks!

What a great Blues game. Exactly what they needed.

There are several great YouTube videos which show a lot of crosbys constant diving and whining. It's really pathetic.

Quote: michael99000

There are several great YouTube videos which show a lot of crosbys constant diving and whining. It's really pathetic.

Yeah I was about to write a response about his whining and how ppl hate him because of that, but I fell short because I felt like I didn't follow the East enough to say that. But I feel like I follow enough to pile on...lol

Quote: Face

Oh, man. Here we go.

Let me preface this by saying that I in no way, shape, or form deny the man of his skills. He is premier in that department, possibly one of the best in his time.

There. Now that that's taken care of...

Crosby is the antithesis of everything that hockey is. There is a code of conduct that runs deeper than any of us here can understand, and he defecates upon it more times than I've ever seen a man do so before.

Hockey is honor. There are plenty of thugs, goons, misanthropes, and malcontents, sure, but they all follow the code. You have a Matt Barnaby type, and he fits a particular accepted mold. He's an instigator, a pest, a thorn there to get under your skin and throw you off your game. That is accepted, and it is known. He's one of a long list of these types - Sean Avery, Claude Lemieux, Pat Verbeek, the list goes on.

There are plenty of hateful, hurtful fellows as well. Your Domi's, your Probert's, your Grimson's, your McSorely's. They fit the mold. If they're on the ice, it's to send a message, and that message is if one wants to act in a certain way, several face punches are going to result. It is accepted, it is known.

You have your emotional leaders. Guys that are there for the team and not only give 100%, they cause everyone else around them to give their 100%. Mario Lemieux, Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman... they're the generals on the ice. It is known.

Then there's the fancy boys. Guys that'll dance out of 5 men and score, that have a blade made of dynamite. Datsyuk, Giroux, Kopitar, Ovechkin... guys that'll leave you standing there thinking "wtf just happened". It is known.

Sidney "Crybaby Cindy" Crosby is none of the above. He's not a warrior. He's not a leader. He's not a tough guy, and he has no honor. He is a P.O.S.

He dives over the most incidental of contacts. Diving is possibly the worst offense in all of sports. If you're hurt, you go to the bench. If you're concussed, ribs are broken, leg is broken, you go to the bench. If you're Clint Malarchuk and get your head cut off, you reach up, pinch your jugular together so you don't die, and you go to the bench. If someone pokes you and you curl up in agony like a wooly bear caterpillar, you need to stay your ass on the soccer field.

He's a cheapshot artist, and I use artist sarcastically. You can hit and hack and slash all you want. About all I do personally on the ice is hack the ish out of people. But when you engage in contact, only two recourses are acceptable - be a fancy boy that has a goon in their pocket, or man up and accept the punishment that results. He'll hack the ish out of someone, and when retribution comes, he either turtles up or hides behind the stripes. That is unacceptable.

And if you're gonna instigate, instigate. Sacrifice your own freedom to take another man off the ice. Instigating is an art; one only need look to the god of instigating himself, Matt Barnaby. But when you write checks your ass can't cash, and summarily start a scrum that gets your whole team involved and sends others to the penalty box, then you deserve to be shamed. You deserve to be bench. You deserve to be a healthy scratch. Oh, but not the princess. Oh, no.

And if you're gonna fight, then fight. Get separation, drop the gloves, and dance. Cindy's "fights" involve either jumping a guy that ain't ready or scrumming with a guy with gloves on, which riles everyone else and sends all of his guys to the box.

Seriously, I could go on all day. I could link enough YouTube videos of Crosby's antics, interviews with coaches, and even God Himself Don Cherry to crash the entire intertron, every one of which supports my view. The dude's got skills, I don't deny it. But his actions serve only to piss on everything ice hockey stands for.

Well let me preface this by saying, I couldn't care less about what people think of players. I also couldn't care less about how they act. The only thing I care about is watching an entertaining and winning team. Even that is starting to fade as the years go by. I quite often question myself as to why I care at all about millionaires playing games that are funded by poor people like myself.

So anyways, I understand your points but I don't feel that is how the majority of the people feel about Crosby. There may be plenty of videos on you tube that demonstrate your point about the way he plays but he is also the most polarizing player in the league. People look for reasons to bash him. He gets more on camera time especially when the play is over than anyone else in the league. I have no sources to back this up but I have heard this mentioned in the past. He is also followed by the camera quite often when he isn't even near the puck. I think this leads to seeing more of the plays that you described.

I also feel that he is very passionate about the game and probably the most arrogant which may cause him to react to certain situations differently than other players.

I don't agree in your assessment of the types of players. "Sidney "Crybaby Cindy" Crosby is none of the above. He's not a warrior. He's not a leader. He's not a tough guy, and he has no honor. He is a P.O.S."
1. How do you know he is not a leader in the locker room? I sure don't but being local I hear a lot more good stories about him than the bad. The national media sure doesn't cover him when he is sitting bedside at Children's hospital with sickly kids. Also there have been many stories leak out how he has helped some young players and also got Malkin back on track. Again I am not in the locker room either so I can not say for sure what leadership role he has. Maybe you will say the way he plays on the ice and "crying" is not showing leadership. Is it not he job of the captain to fight for his team mates. He knows that he has the ear of the refs so why not exploit it.
2. tough guy- yeah his fights are pretty lame. I think fighting should be removed from hockey anyways. I don't think he ever claims to be a tough guy.
3. warrior- I think it is idiotic when players get teeth knocked out and they keep playing. The season is long and missing them for 1 period isn't the end of the world. I guess this part of their code but its just one that I disagree with. I think their health and future well being is way more important than playing a game. When Crosby had his concussion he was bashed for how long he was out. I got a concussion playing baseball 15 years ago in a home plate collision. I still to this day suffer migraines because of it. I will give anyone who wants to sit out with a head injury a pass. I actually thought that he was going to retire. I think he was smart enough to see other players come back to soon and get another one which ended their career.
4. fancy boys- I really disagree with you saying that he is not one of these. Have you seen some of the ridiculous plays that he has made? Maybe he isn't Mario but he has made some great plays that other great players could never make.

I accept your opinion of him and I would never try to change your mind but I wanted to give my opinion.

Quote: Lemieux66

It's just jealousy. Anyone would want Crosby on their team and since he isn't people feel free to rant. I don't even pay attention.

C'mon, Mario. The jealousy/envy argument is the weakest of all arguments, and patently false. See GWAE. That's how you play the game =)

Quote: GWAE

1. How do you know he is not a leader in the locker room? I sure don't but being local I hear a lot more good stories about him than the bad. The national media sure doesn't cover him when he is sitting bedside at Children's hospital with sickly kids. Also there have been many stories leak out how he has helped some young players and also got Malkin back on track. Again I am not in the locker room either so I can not say for sure what leadership role he has. Maybe you will say the way he plays on the ice and "crying" is not showing leadership. Is it not he job of the captain to fight for his team mates. He knows that he has the ear of the refs so why not exploit it.

I don’t know that he’s not a leader in the locker room, but that’s neither here nor there. No one gets paid based on their locker room speeches. I am also not judging his character as a civilian. Whether it’s him consoling a cancer ridden kid, whether it’s Pat Roy getting drunk and punching his wife, or Bob Probert blowing coke and being a menace, none of what I’m judging is on their personal lives. That’s not the discussion, whether he’s a “good guy”. I’m talking “hockey player”, what he does from whistle to whistle.

It is totally and completely the job of the captain to fight for his teammates. Perhaps not literal fisticuffs, but fight in every other sense of the word. That is what a captain does. If they’re down by 4 with 2 minutes to go, he fights for another goal anyways. If he’s a superstar that gets mobbed whenever he touches the puck, he fights through the opposition. If he’s getting targeted with aggression, he fights the urge to lose his mind and do something stupid that will hurt his teammates. That’s what a leader does.

Quote: GWAE

2. tough guy- yeah his fights are pretty lame. I think fighting should be removed from hockey anyways. I don't think he ever claims to be a tough guy.

I didn’t mean to imply he was, only listing a few of the known characters in a hockey game. Even still, most everyone has characteristics of several different groups. Look at Roenick. He was a leader and a tough guy. He wasn’t a fighter, but had a streak of it in him. Wasn’t an offensive powerhouse, but had a streak of it in him. And there are plenty of folks that lack that toughness, and that’s fine. No one was ever ridiculing Pavel Bure or Alexander Mogilny because they didn’t fight or lay down the big hit. BUT, they never pretended they could or would. They knew their role.

Crosby is a paper tiger. He wants to jaw and chirp and hack and slash, that’s fine. I have no issue with it whatsoever. But when he finally sets off an issue, then what? He hides behind the stripes. He gets hacked and dives. He ties someone up with gloves on and gets 1-2-3 of his teammates involved and sent to the box. That is an embarrassment.

Quote: GWAE

3. warrior- I think it is idiotic when players get teeth knocked out and they keep playing. The season is long and missing them for 1 period isn't the end of the world. I guess this part of their code but its just one that I disagree with. I think their health and future well being is way more important than playing a game. When Crosby had his concussion he was bashed for how long he was out. I got a concussion playing baseball 15 years ago in a home plate collision. I still to this day suffer migraines because of it. I will give anyone who wants to sit out with a head injury a pass. I actually thought that he was going to retire. I think he was smart enough to see other players come back to soon and get another one which ended their career.

Between this and your opinion on fighting, I have to think you don’t really like American hockey. It’s thinking like this that has turned the epic strategic warfare of the NFL into a showcase of neutered defense and fancy dancing by primping WR’s.

I don’t blame him for sitting out. I don’t blame LaFontaine for retiring. I don’t lament the rule changes to penalize head shots or leaving feet in a check. But all the rest is player choice. I’ve never been in a fight I didn’t want to be in. I’m fortunate to still have every one of my own teeth, but when I got kicked in the face and had my cheek laid open, it was my choice to tape it together and continue playing. Just as it is theirs. Some dude died on the bench last month. When they revived him, he wanted to go back onto the ice. THAT'S a warrior. A fool, yes, but a warrior nonetheless. I'm not saying one SHOULD do that. I'll even say they shouldn't. Concussions, broken legs, broken ribs, you have a free pass to sit this one out. But if you get barely poked and writhe around like someone shot you, you disgrace the sigil on your chest.

Quote: GWAE

4. fancy boys- I really disagree with you saying that he is not one of these. Have you seen some of the ridiculous plays that he has made? Maybe he isn't Mario but he has made some great plays that other great players could never make.

Again, I’m not saying he doesn’t have the ability. In fact, I said he has skills that are possibly unmatched in the game today. But if that’s what you are, and really, that’s all the guy has going for him and it is his greatest asset, then BE THAT! Be that guy that can single handedly own the game. Be that guy that can, all on his own, completely change the momentum of a game. Be that guy that can crush the spirit of another team with one flick of his stick. Be a Joe Sakic, a Teemu Selanne, a Brett Hull. That is, by any measure, what he should be. If he’d shut his stupid mouth, keep his stick off other people, and just focus on the puck, he might just make everyone forget about that other Pen that had to take a few years off. But he won’t. He’s a punk of the worst kind, the one who avoids accountability.

You can score, lead, chirp, instigate, fight, and scrum, all at the same time, and still be a legend. Jeremy Roenick proved it. But if you’re gonna do it, then DO IT. If you’re so unstoppable that you get hacked in frustration, either soak it and carry on or fight a mofo. Those are the only two options. If you want to jaw and chirp and hack yourself, then either sit your own ass in the box or fight your own fight against an opponent. Those are the only two options. And if you want to lead the team, either lead it completely in action and word, or step aside and let a real man take the reins. Those are the only two options.

Anything less is dishonor. And it is that area that Cindy has chosen to live.

Quote: GWAE

I accept your opinion of him and I would never try to change your mind but I wanted to give my opinion.

I accept yours as well and enjoy the debate =) You are, of course, wrong on the fighting, but that’s ok. I might hate your opinion on some things, but at least you’re not a baseball fan ;)

Quote: Face

...I don’t know that he’s not a leader in the locker room, but that’s neither here nor there. No one gets paid based on their locker room speeches...

Face,
Before I open this debate, I will give you a chance to restate the above, because I don't think you really believe this statement, do you?

Quote: RaleighCraps

Face,
Before I open this debate, I will give you a chance to restate the above, because I don't think you really believe this statement, do you?

I won't restate, rather I'll clarify.

Yes, that type of stuff means something. For some players, it means everything. For a few, it is their defining quality. On my team, I am that guy. I don't do the strategy or positioning or lineups, I do the heart. I've always been that guy, and I know it matters. Before I was that guy, others did it to me. I know it matters.

But I don't care if Tyler Myers turns into the next Tony Robbins, ain't no one giving him an extra red cent because he's atrocious. In other words, there are a lot of things that make a player, that give value to an investment. But first and foremost is production on the ice. Slalom time, 40 time, emotional intelligence, play history and stats, injury history, work ethic,... every one is a piece that affects value. But a paper perfect athlete ain't worth a lick if he don't produce, and the most slovenly of lazy bones can be a star if he's getting those W's.

If I missed the mark and you were rather questioning my opinion that he's not a leader, then no. No restating or even clarifying is needed. You simply can't do the things he's done and act the way he acts and be a leader. There is no virtue in being a punk. Maybe because he turned Malkin around, maybe because he's the first on the ice and the last off, maybe whatever, maybe that makes him appear a leader. I don't buy it. He's either a poser that has somehow pulled it off so far, or he's a leader with some serious weaknesses that he needs to address. But he is no true leader.

OK... commence my shredding =)

Ha, I'm not entering these Crosby waters with you sharks swimming in circles..........

I was purely asking about the value of leadership in the locker room, or the lack of value, and you have clarified your position. In the end, in team sports, it matters not how you get the job done. The only question that needs to be answered is, "Did you help the team win?". I don't care if you are the worst player on the ice, but if you are a part of the winning, then you are worth something. Everyone brings different aspects of value. Rod Brind'amour was not our best player at the end, but his work ethic even then was undeniable. And that made him a true leader, and other players trained harder because Brindy was leading the way.

I'm neutral on Crosby. I see your points, but I also look at his play, and I would take him on our team (we could give Pitt back BOTH Staal'ds)

Face I am on my phone so I will comment further later but I wanted to make 2 quick points.

1. I am confused when it comes to fighting. I will watch every fight and I was at the Pens vs Islanders games a few years when there was like 18 fights and most of the teams were ejected. Then the coaches almost fought. It was a great game to watch. I just don't think it belongs in hockey. I guess it does have its purpose but these people should be good enough that they don't need a fight to energize them. See I am confused.

2. I am currently wearing a Pirates shirt and hat and getting ready for Pirates vs Brewers tonight at the best ball park in America.

oh lets make this 3 comments.

3. On your original complaint about Crosby I thought you had personal off ice stuff that you were hating him for. That is why I was asking for reasons. I was going to be shocked if there was off ice issues that I was unaware of.

I drove by his house today. I should have taken a picture and posted it in this thread. Maybe next time.

Quote: GWAE

1. I am confused when it comes to fighting

I am assuming we will soon have a thread about fighting in the NHL. I have some thoughts on that but will save my comments for the new thread.

Quote: odiousgambit

I am assuming we will soon have a thread about fighting in the NHL. I have some thoughts on that but will save my comments for the new thread.

I don't want to clutter the forum with off topic without reason. I assume Cess doesn't mind hockey talk filling in the gaps between games, and I also assume he knows that he need only ask if he does want it split. I'll carry on here unless there's an issue.

Quote: GWAE

1. I am confused when it comes to fighting. I will watch every fight and I was at the Pens vs Islanders games a few years when there was like 18 fights and most of the teams were ejected. Then the coaches almost fought. It was a great game to watch. I just don't think it belongs in hockey. I guess it does have its purpose but these people should be good enough that they don't need a fight to energize them. See I am confused.

Back in the late 1800's / early 1900's, people were dying on the ice. Hockey is a rough sport. You look at football and you think "gee, those guys are crushing each other out there". But the fastest NFL player (if I did my math right) ran a 40 that converts into roughly 20mph. And he was some 5' 10", 180 cornerback. I can get my 6', 214lb self over 20 on skates while smoking a cigarette. I think it was Pavel Bure who averaged 27mph in a lap, and that figures in slowing for the corners. They move fast out there. So when there's contact, it bloody hurts.

When you get hurt, what's the first response? You want to hurt him back. And when that red mist falls, you want pain by any means necessary. Guys were using their sticks, they were striking heads, and people were dying.

The original 6 were all northeast. In that same region, First Nation Lacrosse was also very popular. Same sort of game, same level of violence, same play with sticks, and they had fighting. Fighting was seen as a pressure release valve, a way to punish without killing. So fighting in the NHL came to be.

This was way back. 1910? 1920? A long time ago, anyway. And in all that time, it became dogma. It's as much a part of the sport as the hockey smile and mullets =)

The NHL has taken steps as it needs. During expansion we saw the emergence of the Broad Street Bullies and others of their types. Relatively lacking of skill, they just beat the hell out of everyone. We saw penalties created as a result. The "leaving the bench" penalty, the "third man in" penalty. Later, in my time, came the "instigator" penalty. All of these were to address rampant, mindless fighting, but still preserving the art of it.

Because, see, fighting is completely necessary. There is a facet that makes it part of the game from a competition standpoint. The "rallying of the troops", so to speak. In a heated, emotional contest, sometimes a fight victory can change momentum. But the real importance of it is protection. Refs can only do so much. Suspensions only go so far. But a fight is immediate, and it is definitive.

It is always in the back of a hockey player's mind. I know with every shot I take on an opponent, there is a risk of retribution. If I hack, I'm getting hacked back. If I light someone up, I have a bullseye on my back the rest of the game. It makes you think twice. It makes you pick your shots. And in many cases, it makes you let up. The fear of retribution preserves the members of the team.

In football, what repercussion does one have to fear? A 15 yard penalty, max? You get the same for touching a fancy boy before the ball arrives. A $50k fine? What is that to a man that makes $5mm a year?

Hockey is no different. We have the sin bin, we have fines, we have suspensions. But what good did any of that to for Cam Neely? When Ulf Samuellson blew out Cam's knee with a dirty check, and the Bruins lost their power forward, their biggest warrior, their fighter presence, their emotional anchor, and one of their leading scorers, what good does any of that do? Ulf got away scott free on that, but two minutes? Four? Ten? Multi game suspension? The Bruins lost Cam for life. Yeah, he came back for a few years, but he was never the same and his stats prove it.

Fighting is God in hockey. It is the ever present karma that keeps the most violent sport on Earth from descending into chaos. Do you think Gretzky would've been who he was without McSorely? Or Sundin without Domi? Or Yzerman without Probert? These fancy boys would be ground to a pulp without a goon in their pocket. But with them, everyone knew that although you must check them off the puck, to do so violently or uncleanly would be met with harsh and instant retribution.

The face washing, the scrums, the patty-cake, yeah, sometimes that gets tiresome. But to get rid of that you'd have to get rid of real fighting, and the purpose behind it is too important, too critical, to ever do without.

I hate the face washing, and I absolutely hate puck drop fights. The BS when two teams line up and start slugging before the game is 2 seconds old is disgusting. I don't care what the history is.

I hate fighting when I am watching 3 sets of 17 year old boys batter each other till they are bloody and the managers do nothing to calm their team down.

I hate the gloves being dropped when a player makes a clean centre ice hit because some fancy dan has dropped their heads and not seen the 6 foot 3 defence come down the ice to make a fore-check.

I hate fighting when your new team captain sucker punches another guy with no warning and you are in a hostile arena.

That all said, when a pest has gotten a reaction with his physical game crossing the line, I don't have a problem if someone wants to go drop the gloves with him. I don't have a problem when the headhunter goes out, hacks the star player off the puck and has to deal with enforcer. Or when the skill player sees one of the 4th liner being tripped unnecessarily, taking the punk to task for his play.

Fights with a -good- reasons are enforcement in hockey, sure. They can simmer things down, get the momentum and send a message. Fights which are thuggish and pointless make me go to the bar instead. At the WHL level, much of it is bar trips. And in the ECHL, I can think of only two guys on the team here who ever fought with honour.

Anyways, the Red Wing's game is starting so less chatter, more watching!

I've come around on this, Face.

A latter-day hockey fan, I couldnt understand the fighting at all at first. I was thinking, they stopped it in football, and the game is better for it.

In hockey, I started realizing you needed some alternatives. The guy with the puck can take some real shots, and it's legal even when he doesn't have the puck but merely 'just had the puck' a few seconds ago. The guys use those sticks on each other too, intentionally and unintentionally. Retaliations along those lines doesn't seem desirable as opposed to an honest fist-fight. And when they fight, yeah they can hurt each other, but fighting on skates clearly has limits; it seems at some point the idea is to get the other guy down on the ice first.

In football, the players seem to recognize fighting would be bad for the game. In hockey, the players want the fighting. Watch them and the ones on the bench all beat the boards with their sticks in approval. You have to respect what the players clearly want.

One exception: I think it is BS when they all drop gloves and start fighting as soon as the first puck drops. Even the goalies face off, often one goalie not wanting any of it. The fines for that ought to be horrendous. PS looks like Cesspit and I agree on that part.

I dig your views, all I can say is "there's something about hockey".

I've played years of all sports. Not a one of them have been free of conflict. There's always someone I wanted to kill. Maybe a pitcher than beaned me, or hit me on purpose on a pick off move. Maybe a guard that gave me a crackback block or some douche that lit me up on a punt return well away from the play. I can't remember any one of who they are, can't remember all the details behind the incident.

But with hockey, I remember everything. I have a guy on my hit list that's been there over six years. There's one guy I haven't even laid eyes on in three whole years, but if I ever see him, I'm ruining his day on sight. There's just such a carry over with hockey. I dunno what it is, I can't explain it. But "rivalry" takes on a whole new tone.

There are times I see an "insta-brawl" and think "wtf?". But there are others that I see that I know exactly why, usually East teams (OTT and BUF, anyone?), where I know exactly why, and it falls right in line with the hockey code.

On the turtle, I think we all agree. If anything but the skates are touching the ice, the fight is over. If you're grappling and get back to your feet with both parties still engaged, that's one thing. But when one quits or is down, or doesn't start to begin with, the fight is over.

I think there should be a touch more "old school" in today's hockey. Just a little bit more scrumming, a little bit of an area for a true goon. But overall, I'm happy with the product. I have only one big complaint, one on which I will accept no dissent ...

Digital music is an offense of the highest order. If you don't have a pipe organ in your arena, you need to GTFO ;)

Allez le Habitants!

If it wasn't for the residuals on digital music in hockey arenas, I'm sure Nickelback wouldn't have made so much money. And for that, I have to agree with Face.

Boo-yah!

I'm a fan of the fight, but no. Just no.

Sometimes you gotta be a sneak thief and blow someone up unawares. The reach differential being >5 is one of those times.

Quote: Face

I'm a fan of the fight, but no. Just no.

Sometimes you gotta be a sneak thief and blow someone up unawares. The reach differential being >5 is one of those times.

This was sooooo funny. Give Smith props for heart, but incredible lack of sense. Charo was laughing as Smith face washed him, but Charo's face wash back had a bit of mean in it. Not sure what Smith thought he was going to do if Charo gave him that fight, other than get a concussion........

Allez les Tricolours!

Bleu! Blancs! Rogue!

Quote: RaleighCraps

Quote: Face

I'm a fan of the fight, but no. Just no.

Sometimes you gotta be a sneak thief and blow someone up unawares. The reach differential being >5 is one of those times.

This was sooooo funny. Give Smith props for heart, but incredible lack of sense. Charo was laughing as Smith face washed him, but Charo's face wash back had a bit of mean in it. Not sure what Smith thought he was going to do if Charo gave him that fight, other than get a concussion........

He should have tried to give him an overhand right.

Quote: Lemieux66

He should have tried to give him an overhand right.

Key word is "try". That's about all he would've done. Tried this. Tried that. Tried not to bleed too much. Tried to skate away under his own power...

Viva les Canadiens

Quote: kenarman

Viva les Canadiens

Quote: Face

Allez les Tricolours!

Bleu! Blancs! Rogue!

Yeah, kenarman!

I'm glad they're in. When they drop, I switch to Bruins, and I'd like to not cheer for them until the sting fades for our host =p

Quote: Face

I'm glad they're in. When they drop, I switch to Bruins, and I'd like to not cheer for them until the sting fades for our host =p

As a Canuck fan I can't possibly cheer for the Bruins yet I am still too pissed about 2011. On the other hand they were my favorite team in the late 50's

	Av.	SW	Cess	Kenarman	RaleighC	GWAE	SOOPOO	O-Gambit	Face	Wudged	BBB	FinsRule	Paradigm
Pittsburgh	13.9	0	14	15	12	15	16	15	14	14	12	15	11
Boston	13.2	0	7	6	16	12	14	16	16	15	15	13	15
St Louis	11.6	0	16	13	13	8	15	10	4	16	16	8	9
Anaheim	11.5	0	13	7	10	4	11	13	9	13	14	16	16
Colorado	11.2	0	9	4	14	13	7	14	15	10	13	10	14
Chicago	10.8	0	8	8	15	14	13	12	11	7	5	14	12
San Jose	9.9	0	11	16	11	11	9	9	13	4	11	6	8
Montreal	9.0	1	12	14	3	9	12	2	12	12	9	7	7
New York	8.7	0	10	10	6	6	6	11	7	6	10	11	13
LA	7.3	0	5	5	1	16	5	5	8	9	8	12	6
Philadelphia	6.9	0	6	3	8	3	8	1	10	11	7	9	10
Detroit	6.5	0	15	11	9	10	4	4	5	8	1	3	1
Tampa Bay	4.9	0	4	2	7	2	10	6	6	5	2	5	5
Dallas	4.2	0	2	12	4	7	2	8	2	2	3	2	2
Minnesota	3.9	0	3	9	5	5	3	3	3	1	4	4	3
Columbus	2.5	0	1	1	2	1	1	7	1	3	6	1	4
Total	-	-	12	14	3	9	12	2	12	12	9	7	7

First series win, and thought I'd post the table :) Now, we need the Wings to recover...

ETA: never mind, too early in the morning for me to think.

Quote: thecesspit

First series win, and thought I'd post the table :)

Not hard to pick out the Canadian participants [g]

Hey thecesspit,

Thanks for running this pool. I have been noodling an idea on how to make it more gambling related, and I think I have a decent concept for next year, that just needs some more fine tuning.

Same format that you are using this year, 16 to 1 points assigned to the teams. But here is the twist. For each series match up, you can gamble on how long the series will go. If you correctly predict a sweep, your points will double for that series. If you predict a win in 5 games or less, then you can get a 60% bonus. If you predict a win in 6 games or less, you get a 30% bonus. However, if your team wins, but the series goes longer than you predicted, you only get 1/2 of your points for that series. Points will be rounded to one decimal place. Obviously, if you just pick the team to win in 7 games, you will get full points for the win, or 0 points for the loss.

Example (assumes Montreal won):
You picked Montreal at 12 points.
If you predicted Montreal in 4 games, then you would get 24.0 pts, but if they won in >4 games, you would only get 6 pts.
If you predicted Montreal in 5 games, then you would get 19.2 pts, but if they won in >5 games, you would only get 6 pts.
If you predicted Montreal in 6 games, then you would get 15.6 pts, but if they won in >6 games, you would only get 6 pts.
If you predicted Montreal, but took no gamble on series length, then you get 12 points.

The negative is, Each new series match up would require people to respond with their series length predictions. I need some of the math sharpies to tell me if the math is weighted correctly though. I'm not sure that the percentage bonus points are correct, nor am I convinced that the 50% reduction is the right number.

Congrats to those who picked the Habs high. I never would have dreamed they would sweep TB. However, getting past Boston or Detroit should be much harder to do.

Quote: odiousgambit

Not hard to pick out the Canadian participants [g]

Ha, I don't care who wins if it's not the Wings (and as long as it's not the Canucks or Leafs, because I just don't need that level of crowing around here, but safe on that for another season). I'll just watch good hockey being played once my teams out.

Quote: RaleighCraps

Hey thecesspit,

Thanks for running this pool. I have been noodling an idea on how to make it more gambling related, and I think I have a decent concept for next year, that just needs some more fine tuning.

I thought about this, too. Not your exact idea, but to score by game as opposed to series. After all, there's a difference between selecting a team and having them lose 3-4, and selecting them and having them lose 0-4. Of course, I have neither the math skills nor the desire to figure out how to do that, so... ;)

Quote: RaleighCraps

Congrats to those who picked the Habs high. I never would have dreamed they would sweep TB. However, getting past Boston or Detroit should be much harder to do.

Yeah =/ My respect for Boston runs too deep to hate them yet, but I would like to see the East represented by someone else. And after Toronto, Montreal would be my fave. They didn't look to have much of a weakness throughout that whole series, but Boston's an entirely different animal than Tampa. I don't think you can carry much over from that series to the next.

But I'll say, I've never coveted a man's skills on the skates as much as I do Subban's. I've never even really coveted that skill, period. Back when we were kids and everyone called being Gretzky or Lemiuex or Yzerman, I always called being Boitano. As in Brian Boitano lol. But Subban's got Boitano beat by a country mile. Damn, but that guy can dazzle.

Quote: thecesspit

Ha, I don't care who wins if it's not the Wings (and as long as it's not the Canucks or Leafs, because I just don't need that level of crowing around here, but safe on that for another season). I'll just watch good hockey being played once my teams out.

Listen here Cessy or The Most Venerable Cesspit or Bill or whatever the hell you're being called today, if the Leafs ever win the Cup, I will crow and you will like it. I ain't waiting no two lifetimes for a Cup only to have a friend piss in my cornflakes XD

Of course that's a joke, as even two lifetimes is much too optimistic =/

God, but playoff hockey is just about the best thing on Earth!

Pens had this thing wrapped up in the first. But now, it's yet another game where it was tied up with just seconds to go in an empty net situation.

NHL, don't change a thing. This is one hell of a product =D

Quote: Face

God, but playoff hockey is just about the best thing on Earth!

Pens had this thing wrapped up in the first. But now, it's yet another game where it was tied up with just seconds to go in an empty net situation.

NHL, don't change a thing. This is one hell of a product =D

I can't watch any other sport's playoffs if my team is not playing. NHL, I can. It's just so freaking entertaining.

I'm watching my Blues right now. They seem to be pretty even with the Hawks so far.

FML:(

It has to be a record to have 4 games in a series where 1 team was winning the game 3-1 and lost each 1.

I went to turn on OT of the Jackets game and it was already over, what happened?