Up to $ 1000 Riviera Slot Loss Rebate
I think it is worth a new thread.
Here are the Details.
How can they afford to do this ?
Does anyone know if this applies to VP machines,
or truly only slot machines. ?
Isn't this a decent deal even if it might only be
good on Slots ?
And from the rules, I don't know if they mean I can
play it or NOT play it because I have NOT played
there for the past 24 months.
Quote: JohnnyQHow can they afford to do this ?
By including (and subsequently invoking) this rule: "Management reserves the right to alter, limit or cancel this offer without notice."
They have no idea how many will take advantage of it and how many will lose versus will win. Most people with a grand ain't going to the Riviera without some sort of inducement anyway.
That paragraph is poorly worded and is being misinterpreted by some very experienced gamblers so it will probably be misinterpreted by some very experienced hosts and floor persons too.
Its a same DAY loss rebate, so you be darn careful about a DAY and not 24 hours from when you join the club or the casino's "legal day" that probably starts at 4:00am.
With that second Freeplay... it will stay there for about a year so that is probably good enough for most gamblers anyway.
Quote: JBThat paragraph is poorly worded, but I think you're out of luck based on the first rule, which says "New member sign-ups only."
I may check it out in person in July. Who knows,
depending on how well (or poorly they are doing)
maybe they will let me play.
The TROP let me play their $ 200 loss rebate,
even though I had been a players club member
a number of years ago.
Lesson learned:
It doesn't hurt to ask (politely of course).
The strategy is go play as high denomination as you can. Try to blow the $1,000 as quickly as possible, or win something big trying to lose. It sounds paradoxical, but you only benefit from the promotion if you lose.
Quote: WizardI think this is pretty strong. I'd do it if I didn't already have a card. HB is still in town, if she has $1,000 to blow I will recommend she does it.
The strategy is go play as high denomination as you can. Try to blow the $1,000 as quickly as possible, or win something big trying to lose. It sounds paradoxical, but you only benefit from the promotion if you lose.
Curious to hear more about this. I know the strategy is to go for the big hit, but couldn't another AP be to play for a long day at a more modest bet and rack up a ton of comps? If betting $2 or $3 a spin you could play for a long time and rack up a lot of comp dollars before losing $1000. Also, what is the optimal strategy once you lose? Go for the big hit on the free play, or just try to put enough coin-in to cash out the freeplay?
1. Denomination (you want it high).
2. Volatility (you want it high).
3. Return.
Quote: JohnnyQI may check it out in person in July. Who knows,
depending on how well (or poorly they are doing)
maybe they will let me play.
The TROP let me play their $ 200 loss rebate,
even though I had been a players club member
a number of years ago.
Lesson learned:
It doesn't hurt to ask (politely of course).
Their website says if you haven't been active for 24 months you are good to go.
Quote: progrockerThis is basically the Tropicana deal except five times the size, eh? I think I'll try this out on Thursday. Vpfree2 shows the best games as 9/7 DB, 9/6 DDB and DW44 in quarter and dollar. I guess I should play DDB at the dollar level and hope for some quads. If I get to the freeplay stage, I'd go at the quarter level and I believe DW44 has the lowest variance, correct?
Correct. DDB is the highest. DW44 is the lowest.
Yeah, I much prefer the promos that say we will double your profits in our slots on the first day. Its just that those promos are rare. And if one happens to have losses, getting freeplay in return for them sure beats getting nothing for them.Quote: IbeatyouracesI dont like these loss rebate promos.
Quote: kenarmanTheir website says if you haven't been active for 24 months you are good to go.
I'm not so sure about that. I mean, at first I read it to mean just what you're saying, but it's not entirely clear. Fortunately there's a simple way to test it. I obtained a card at the Riviera in 2009 and haven't used it since. I can go to the players club booth and ask.
Quote: rudeboyoilater tonight, i will probably be checking out the games they have at the highest denominations possible. will report back afterwards.
Please do, I want to know if it is worth the bus/cab trip down there from downtown later this week.
Quote: NareedI'm not so sure about that. I mean, at first I read it to mean just what you're saying, but it's not entirely clear. Fortunately there's a simple way to test it. I obtained a card at the Riviera in 2009 and haven't used it since. I can go to the players club booth and ask.
Just a reminder: It's best if you fib and act like you've never had a card before. If they tell you that you had one, just play it off like you were at dozens of places two years ago and forgot that you'd been there.
Quote: rdw4potusJust a reminder: It's best if you fib and act like you've never had a card before. If they tell you that you had one, just play it off like you were at dozens of places two years ago and forgot that you'd been there.
That wreaks havoc with my honesty policy ;)
I appreciate the advice, but I respectfully decline to take it. At most I would lose $100, probably not even that much. So it's worth just asking and we'll see what happens.
Quote: NareedI'm not so sure about that. I mean, at first I read it to mean just what you're saying, but it's not entirely clear. Fortunately there's a simple way to test it. I obtained a card at the Riviera in 2009 and haven't used it since. I can go to the players club booth and ask.
I sortof think it means I can play but who knows. Maybe it
was clear to whoever wrote it !
Anyways, I won't be back in LV until late July and a lot can
happen to the promo between now and then. But it seems
like the other loss rebates at other places have had staying
power.
My biggest concern was that this was only good for true
slots, not VP. Hopefully somebody can confirm that one
way or the other.
Good luck to all !
best paying game at $10 denomination ($50/hand) is Triple Bonus Poker Plus at 98.72% payback with variance of 44.33.
the best slot machine to play is coyote moon at $200/hand ($1 denomination, 40 lines, 5 credits per line).
Quote: rudeboyoibest paying game at $10 denomination ($50/hand) is Triple Bonus Poker Plus at 98.72% payback with variance of 44.33.
Thanks. That is useful information. This will probably be the game I play, even though I don't know the strategy.
As was warned, if you don't live in Vegas be sure that you are planning to return within a year before playing this.
Quote: deedubbsOut-of-towners doing 4+ nights should ask if this is doable in one trip. The second half of the loss rebate occurs on the "3rd day of the following month." As I understand it (without contacting the Rio), someone could sign up on Monday 4/30 and get the 2nd rebate on 1/3, no?
The flier says it's valid for a year. So if I go in mid-May, as I will, the 2nd part of the free play is available until June 3rd 2013. All I need to do is go back to vegas before then.
More important, since part of the objective is to lose money, can the free play be used in high denomination VP?
I am visiting in July, but not sure it will last that long.
Quote: jwblueI would like to hear estimates from members of this board how long this promotion lasts.
I am visiting in July, but not sure it will last that long.
Ditto, I'm not coming back out until late July. So I guess
the promo will be in place as long as the management
doesn't feel like the sharks are circling.
I think it may be a good thing that they have cut out
the high denom machines. Maybe they will keep
this in place for low rollers like me until I am back
in town.
I've learned a lot from this board. And I enjoy
reading and posting.
SO, I posted this because I wanted other
members to be aware of this promo and
be able to try it.
1. No $2-$25 video poker.
2. No electronic table games.
3. No 3- and 5-play video poker.
However, this is not a big inconvenience. Personally I played a $25 2-coin Double Diamond game in the high-limit room. As expected, I blew the $1000 quickly.
My first installment of free play was then given to me without argument at the cage. That $500 I played on $1 8-5 Bonus Poker and had $380 left by the time I was done. I can redeem the second half after May 3.
I still highly recommend this promotion. Do it while it lasts.
Quote: WizardI did the promo today. First, some rule additions:
1. No $2-$25 video poker.
2. No electronic table games.
3. No 3- and 5-play video poker.
However, this is not a big inconvenience. Personally I played a $25 2-coin Double Diamond game in the high-limit room. As expected, I blew the $1000 quickly.
My first installment of free play was then given to me without argument at the cage. That $500 I played on $1 8-5 Bonus Poker and had $380 left by the time I was done. I can redeem the second half after May 3.
I still highly recommend this promotion. Do it while it lasts.
So, so far, you've lost $120, but while playing the $25 machine, you had a chance for a huge jackpot...not bad...~$250 loss for a good chance at a decent jackpot...if I was a local I'd definitely do it...or can I send my card and have someone pick up the second half?
I thought it was more a "IF you happen to wind up a loser" not if you successfully TRY to be a first-day loser.
Quote: TIMSPEED...or can I send my card and have someone pick up the second half?
You have to show a voucher to someone at the cage to get the second half. There is a good chance they will ask for ID.
For those who will probably shell out for an airline ticket within a year, the 500 in "free play" is at the very least a tempting inducement to reach for the wallet.
For someone who almost definitely will not be back in town so soon, then its simply a 500 Freeplay offer and that is not such a bad offer for slot players to have: 500 back and the glimmer of a hope of that second 500 coming back also.
I still would think the 1000x odds at the Riviera's craps table is a heck of a better deal than any slot return offer possibly could be.
Quote: WizardYou have to show a voucher to someone at the cage to get the second half. There is a good chance they will ask for ID.
Is there a chance that some wont claim the second portion, not go back to vegas within the year (people like me for example) or people just lose the ticket. This must of been factored in, to get the promo in the first place. what would you estimate the actual % of people who will claim the full 100% bonus?
Quote: WizardofEnglandIs there a chance that some wont claim the second portion, not go back to vegas within the year (people like me for example) or people just lose the ticket. This must of been factored in, to get the promo in the first place. what would you estimate the actual % of people who will claim the full 100% bonus?
I think that the casino wants people to show up one month later. That way they know they have a customer who is probably driving to the city or is at one of the inexpensive Allegiant short haul destinations.
I noticed that the promotion is not a 24 hour day, but expire by midnight the same day. The advantage player trying to maximize this promotion must bet big, and take a shot at the jackpot in order for it to be potentially valuable. So you would have to get their early, and find a machine that has those kind of payouts.
My guess is that the casino limits the promotion to "qualifying" machines. All qualifying machines have high house edge and low jackpots.
Quote: pacomartinI noticed that the promotion is not a 24 hour day, but expire by midnight the same day. The advantage player trying to maximize this promotion must bet big, and take a shot at the jackpot in order for it to be potentially valuable. So you would have to get their early, and find a machine that has those kind of payouts. My guess is that the casino limits the promotion to "qualifying" machines. All qualifying machines have high house edge and low jackpots.
It took me about two minutes to lose my $1,000. As I wrote before I plays a $25 2-play Double Diamond. I had just one $100 win along the way, so I would have made 22 bets. So worrying about getting this done within a day should not be a concern.
As I wrote earlier, they exclude any video poker worth doing and the electronic table games.
Quote: WizardI did the promo today. First, some rule additions:
1. No $2-$25 video poker.
2. No electronic table games.
3. No 3- and 5-play video poker.
However, this is not a big inconvenience. Personally I played a $25 2-coin Double Diamond game in the high-limit room. As expected, I blew the $1000 quickly.
My first installment of free play was then given to me without argument at the cage. That $500 I played on $1 8-5 Bonus Poker and had $380 left by the time I was done. I can redeem the second half after May 3.
I still highly recommend this promotion. Do it while it lasts.
Not allowing electronic roulette is an inconvenience for me. I would've used that game and bet $100 on 10 different numbers if allowed. If the game pays 35 to 1, that would yield a profit of $2600 the 26.3% of the time that my number hit. Then I would bet in increments of 18 on red, 18 on black and 1 unit on each zero simultaneously to redeem my free play if I lost (this could be done in multiples, so I could bet 54 on red, 54 on black, and 3 on each zero, etc). The 73.7% of the time that I would have to redeem the free play in two equal installments of $500, I think that would yield a net loss of 2 X $27 for a total loss of $54 on 73.7% of attempts. When you take $2600 profit 26.3% of the time and add in a $54 loss 73.7% of the time, the expected profit is $644.
I've seen electronic games that don't pay 35 to 1, and that changes the math slightly. The expected profit would still be in the same ballpark for those machines (between $600 and $650).
I'm not sure how that math compares to the game you actually played, but this is how I would have redeemed it if allowed to.
There are other qualitative and quantitative reasons to prefer roulette. People who are not probability savants have difficulty determining when they have profited enough to optimally quit and cash out. Roulette eliminates that, because you bet the entire $1000 at one point in time and cash out immediately afterward (if you won). The other benefit in hedging a losing attempt is that even though your expected loss will be slightly larger with roulette ($50-$60) than with video poker ($10-$20 range), the expected loss is your actual loss. There is no variance. It also doesn't require someone to robotically follow a strategy grinding for a significant period of time at a 25 cent machine. That can lead to errors for most people.
***I urge people to see if they can still use the free play on roulette. It's possible that the promotion doesn't allow you to lose $1000 at roulette, but still allow you to redeem the losses at roulette. If so, they can use that hedging technique to reduce the variance in outcome to zero on a machine that pays 35 to 1. That technique is still useful on machines that pay less than 35 to 1. Just make sure that you reduce your bet sizing on red and black to account for the lower payout if one of the zeros hits. This is a great strategy for someone who is concerned about the possibility of losing $300-$400 due to variance playing video poker.
Were those machines ever included?
Quote: jwblueI just spoke to someone at the Riviera Players Club. The promotion no longer includes either reimbursing losses or use of free play on progressive machines. Were those machines ever included?
The whole point of the promotion is to reimburse losses. What do you mean? I didn't notice a rule forbidding using the free play on progressives. What is the point of that?
Quote: WizardThe whole point of the promotion is to reimburse losses. What do you mean? I didn't notice a rule forbidding using the free play on progressives. What is the point of that?
When I say reimburse losses, I meant reimburse losses on progressive slot machines.
They will only reimburse losses and free play can only be used on slot machines that do not have a progressive jackpot.
Maybe they will reimburse on progressives, but not allow free play to be used on them.
Someone should call and confirm.
Quote: WizardI did the promo today. First, some rule additions:
1. No $2-$25 video poker.
2. No electronic table games.
3. No 3- and 5-play video poker.
However, this is not a big inconvenience. Personally I played a $25 2-coin Double Diamond game in the high-limit room. As expected, I blew the $1000 quickly.
My first installment of free play was then given to me without argument at the cage. That $500 I played on $1 8-5 Bonus Poker and had $380 left by the time I was done. I can redeem the second half after May 3.
I still highly recommend this promotion. Do it while it lasts.
If things go the same way with the second free play, you will have "lost" $240. My question is, "Would you have risked $1000 on the $25 slot if you knew your loss would be limited to $240?" It seems a 24% HA is just about expected value for a slot machine.
Quote: AyecarumbaIf things go the same way with the second free play, you will have "lost" $240. My question is, "Would you have risked $1000 on the $25 slot if you knew your loss would be limited to $240?" It seems a 24% HA is just about expected value for a slot machine.
Of course I would have, I did the promotion with no guarantee on how my free play would do.
Nobody should use my experience to say this isn't a good promotion. The slot machine I played was probably set to about a 97% return, which is normal for very high-denom slots. So I gave up about $50 in EV on the slot play. I'm adding $20 because to lose $1,000 you'll likely bet more than $1,000, exposing yourself to the house edge longer. Then on the free play you'll have about a 1% house edge.
All things considered, if you set a winning goal of about $2,000 then your expected value should be about $600, with a low downside.
I still say this is an outstanding promotion, and kudos to the Riv for having the courage to run it.
