New to Poker

So I just joined a MeetUp Group in my Los Angeles area that plays poker. It's just for fun, not for money. I do have some questions though...

1) where can I go to learn the basics (we play edit: Texas Hold 'Em), but also

2) where can I go to learn some strategy techniques? (And is that even possible since it seems that would be personal?)

3) where can I go online to practice for free (or maybe there's an app??)

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I didn't do so well the first two days I played with the group but on the third day I made third place at the third table I played at. Woot! Woot!!

Ultimate Texas Hold'em is a casino table game where you are betting against the house, it isn't really "playing poker." The two are completely different animals. There is a strategy page on wizardofodds.com for that game if that is actually what you meant.

If you are actually playing real Texas Hold'em poker (where you have a group of people playing against each other and not against the dealer) there are dozens of good poker strategy sites out there where you can read about strategy and the basics of the game. 2+2 forums are a popular place. I'm sure there are a ton of Youtube videos on poker strategy as well.

Online poker sites like Bovada have free play tables, but you will have to create an account. No money is required. The downside is that nobody takes the game seriously if there is no money at risk, so there is not much to learn doing that besides getting used to the basic mechanics of the game.

Do you have any specific questions about strategy? A few other forum members and I should be able to answer any questions you have.

Quote: Elrohir44

Ultimate Texas Hold'em is a casino table game where you are betting against the house, it isn't really "playing poker." The two are completely different animals. There is a strategy page on wizardofodds.com for that game if that is actually what you meant.

If you are actually playing real Texas Hold'em poker (where you have a group of people playing against each other and not against the dealer) there are dozens of good poker strategy sites out there where you can read about strategy and the basics of the game. 2+2 forums are a popular place. I'm sure there are a ton of Youtube videos on poker strategy as well.

Online poker sites like Bovada have free play tables, but you will have to create an account. No money is required. The downside is that nobody takes the game seriously if there is no money at risk, so there is not much to learn doing that besides getting used to the basic mechanics of the game.

Do you have any specific questions about strategy? A few other forum members and I should be able to answer any questions you have.

I edited above. It's not Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em it's actually just Texas Hold 'Em.

Since you live in the LA area you can go to LAPL, the Los Angeles library system. There are dozens of books on poker that you can read for free.

I was gonna suggest you Google 'Pub Poker League' in your area. It's a great way to learn poker.

Except, it sounds like the group you joined is the same type of thing.

Quote: Elrohir44

Ultimate Texas Hold'em is a casino table game where you are betting against the house, it isn't really "playing poker." The two are completely different animals. There is a strategy page on wizardofodds.com for that game if that is actually what you meant.

If you are actually playing real Texas Hold'em poker (where you have a group of people playing against each other and not against the dealer) there are dozens of good poker strategy sites out there where you can read about strategy and the basics of the game. 2+2 forums are a popular place. I'm sure there are a ton of Youtube videos on poker strategy as well.

Online poker sites like Bovada have free play tables, but you will have to create an account. No money is required. The downside is that nobody takes the game seriously if there is no money at risk, so there is not much to learn doing that besides getting used to the basic mechanics of the game.

Do you have any specific questions about strategy? A few other forum members and I should be able to answer any questions you have.

What are 2+2 forums and how do I find them?

Just google 2 plus 2 poker forums

There's some sort of free poker game on facebook too. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I think there is some incentive to do well.

What you want to avoid, if you are learning more than the basic mechanics of the game, is games where people don't really care about winning or losing.

Most sites like Bovada have stakes as small as 1cent/2cent. That's usually enough that most players try somewhat hard.

Your league sounds good too. Sounds like it might be centered around tournaments, which can be the most bang for your buck. I've also noticed women seem to prefer tournaments.

My one sentence summary would be to play tight (mostly fold), aggressive (when you have a good hand and don't fold, be in there betting and raising), and straightforward (don't bluff).

The first answer here looks to be a decent start strategywise: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-basic-poker-strategies-that-every-beginner-should-know

Also http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/beginner-mistakes/

Good luck.

Poker is not a hard game at all, and you can learn poker rules even from internet, no need to attend any special courses or schools.

Thank you guys for the advice. And I was told that I play too aggressive since I'm new! Which is probably true as I call too often when I should probably fold. Not sure yet what I should hang on to or fold when I've got my first two cards (don't even know what the first two cards are called yet)!

Quote: HotBlonde

Thank you guys for the advice. And I was told that I play too aggressive since I'm new! Which is probably true as I call too often when I should probably fold. Not sure yet what I should hang on to or fold when I've got my first two cards (don't even know what the first two cards are called yet)!

That's the gambler in you. It's all about one's personality when they start. Most people are timid. I'm not sure you are aggressive, you're probably a passive calling station.

Learning the odds of how often hands connect with the flop will help curb that. Learning what hands people usually play should help as well.

If you are looking at poker as an Advantage Play you should spend the money to tal lessons and get some coaching.


The 2 cards are called your hole cards, some call them pocket cards IE pocketfives meannin 2 fives in your hand.

http://www.poker.org/

You can watch the WSOP live streams here:

www.wsop.com/m/live

Quote: HotBlonde

Thank you guys for the advice. And I was told that I play too aggressive since I'm new! Which is probably true as I call too often when I should probably fold. Not sure yet what I should hang on to or fold when I've got my first two cards (don't even know what the first two cards are called yet)!

Your statement is probably true--calling too often is the most common leak in the game of new players. However, your terminology is slightly off--this mistake is being too loose, not too aggressive.

Tight/loose refers to how many hands you play as opposed to folding. Aggressive/passive refers to how often you take an aggressive action like raising or betting as opposed to the passive option like checking or calling. They're two different dimensions.

"Tight and aggressive" is a good goal. You want to mostly be folding (tight) until you get a good hand, in which case you want to bet and raise (aggressive) in order to get money from players with worse hands.

Quote: AxelWolf

That's the gambler in you. It's all about one's personality when they start. Most people are timid. I'm not sure you are aggressive, you're probably a passive calling station.

Learning the odds of how often hands connect with the flop will help curb that. Learning what hands people usually play should help as well.

If you are looking at poker as an Advantage Play you should spend the money to tal lessons and get some coaching.


The 2 cards are called your hole cards, some call them pocket cards IE pocketfives meannin 2 fives in your hand.

http://www.poker.org/

tal lessons?

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You can watch the WSOP live streams here:

www.wsop.com/m/live

Awesome, I'll look into it!

I went on Amazon.com and added "Texas Hold'Em for Dummies" to my wish list. Gotta pay my rent and make some debt payments and then I'm going to order the book.

Typo- He meant take lessons

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Typo- He meant take lessons

Gotcha. I'd love to learn so I get good enough to be a good player and win money consistently. I'll start with the book and then read more books and online content until I get pretty sharp. Lessons maybe down the road. Not sure where to find lessons.

I want to get good so I can be competitive. As I told a friend on here some people take up golf for a challenge but I'm more into mental challenges. I think it's cool if you can win in poker cause it's apparent it's really more than simply winning or winning money but it's about really knowing how to use your brain. What a compliment it is to those who win substantial tournaments.

I'm excited to learn although it's currently daunting. I got excited about it after I kept winning 1st place on those silly bartop video machines and then bumping into a local league that plays at a neighborhood bar of mine. But even though I'm excited my excitement is met with some sadness as now I don't want to go to meet up with the league until I know what the hell in doing. It's obvious I haven't known what I've been doing so far, even though I did win 3rd place (out of 9 people, I think?) at the last table I played at. Beginner's luck, perhaps?

I'd suggest playing some hands at very very low stakes online as well

Quote: HotBlonde

I went on Amazon.com and added "Texas Hold'Em for Dummies" to my wish list. Gotta pay my rent and make some debt payments and then I'm going to order the book.

I highly recommend anything by Mike Caro. He is in a league of his own. I don't care what anyone else says, I am right.

Quote: DanielMark

Poker is not a hard game at all, ...

That's pretty funny. Good one.

Quote: HotBlonde

Gotcha. I'd love to learn so I get good enough to be a good player and win money consistently. I'll start with the book and then read more books and online content until I get pretty sharp. Lessons maybe down the road. Not sure where to find lessons.

I think unless you are playing for pretty significant stakes, lessons are unnecessary. There is a staggering amount of good information available in books and online forums.

Quote:

I'm excited to learn although it's currently daunting.

Yeah, it's a hard game to play well! That's why most people are bad. :) Good luck.

You also need to know there's a big difference between cash games and tournament play. Cash games are often 100BB deep or more while tournaments may start off that deep but quickly get down to 20-30BB avg stacks. The effective stack sizes affect what hands you can play and how you play them.

So I splurged and went on Amazon.com today and ordered "Texas Hold'Em for Dummies". The cool thing is, I don't know if anyone's seen this yet, but Amazon.com now offers free same-day delivery! How cool is that?? So I'll probably start reading it tonight. They say that if you order your stuff before noon you can get it the same day. I was notified that it would be delivered by 9pm today.

I love reading and learning! I've fallen away from reading and learning things that I love or have interest in. I'm in a program right now with a certified Dream Coach and this last week was about discovering our passions. I used to love reading all the time and learning and just haven't made the time in a while to do that. So doing this will hopefully perk up my life and along the way I'll discover whether playing poker is something I'll want to stick with. If I do, who knows? Maybe I'll become a pro and win lots of money along the way!

Sounds like a gambler mentality/ I would stick to very very low stakes - like 1-2 limit for a while and not hope to win in the beginning

Quote: HotBlonde

So I splurged and went on Amazon.com today and ordered "Texas Hold'Em for Dummies"....

There's plenty of poker books available for FREE at the library. Try it!

Quote: zippyboy

There's plenty of poker books available for FREE at the library. Try it!

I looked on the Los Angeles Public Library site and only found 4 books, one of which looked like was in Spanish.

I'm all for borrowing books but one of the things I value so much in life is learning and it helps me out a lot when I can write in books and also hang on to them for reference.

Blonde, for starting out, I'd recommend this firstly: Getting Started in Hold 'Em by Ed Miller. It is what it suggests, done well & written with Blondes in mind, with a beginning level overview of general HE fundamentals, and specific sections for LHE, NLHE, and tournament play, all of which are very different games calling for radically different mindsets when setting the chips on the table.

Quote: bobbartop

Mike Caro

I prefer his famously flawless 'Caro System' roulette advice.

Look what I just got!!

Quote: DrawingDead

I prefer his famously flawless 'Caro System' roulette advice.

It's amazing. You absolutely cannot lose with it, even with the high house edge.

Ok, so I've been watching the Final Table of WSOP and I have some questions:

1. Why if you have tens of millions of dollars are you betting and raising mostly very small amounts?
2. Is there a time limit on how long you can sit there and decide what to do? This one guy sits there forever while everyone waits.
3. Why is it taking hours and hours and hours to knock people off the table?

Things I've noticed:
*It's usually the players with the least amount of chips that go all in.
*People will call what appears to me as weak hole cards such as an unsuited 7,4 for example and it doesn't make sense to me.
*People in early position will raise pre-flop when they're the first one to move rather than just calling.

1- There are 2 blinds and usually an ante in the pot.. That's the reason why you play a hand - to win those chips. When you're in a tournament you'll always want to add all of those together to see how much of a percentage of your stack they are. For example you have 20K stack, blinds and antes are 800/1600 200. 10 players at your table so 10 antes (2000) + SB (800) + BB (1600) = 4400 chips out there for the taking. They are very very worth stealing (raising or going all in with a marginal hand hoping not to get called) because they add up to nearly 25% of your stack size. The later your position, the fewer people your steal has to get through, the lower your hand quality can be. In the above scenario if it was folded to me in the small blind and my opponent was average tight I wouldn't even look at my hand and shove.

Let's change your stack to 200K. Now they only add up to 2.5% of your stack. You certainly don't want to risk your entire stack trying to steal a very small amount of chips. So we end up with a small raise size of anywhere from a minimum (2x BB) to about 2.75x BB. In the games you play (lower stake buy ins), you're going to rarely see 2x and will mostly see 3x - 6x open raise sizes. If you're stealing chips, that's risking too much. If you have a good hand like QQ and people at your table will call those big raises loosely go ahead and raise 3-4x.

Anyway it all comes down to risk/reward. Those chips are worth stealing so you come up with a range of hands from any given position that likely makes your steal a +EV play. At the beginning of a tournament when blinds are 50/100 and no antes, those chips are NOT worth stealing.

2 - there's no time limit but anyone can call a clock on you after a reasonable amount of time and you'll have 60 seconds to make a decision or your hand will be dead.

3 - Televised tournaments start off deeper stacked with slow blind structures so there's more 'play'. You dont want to pay a $10,000 buy in and then be forced all in after an hour because the blinds have increased so quickly. When they reach the final table the average chip stack might be around 50 BB.

In your $100 tournaments they basically want you put of there as quickly as possible so while they might start you with a big stack, the blinds will go up every 20 minutes which makes the final table average stack under 20 blinds each, typically around 12-15BB. So you end up with a bunch of 6BB stacks and some 25BB stacks and it is just a shove-fest - all-in is the only move people make.

If you're getting 2:1 pot odds to call an all in, you can call with any 2 cards. There's a bunch of other things to consider but that's the math part of it.

Once you finish your book and lose a few more tournaments go with Poker Tournament Formula by Arnold Snyder.

Thank you BTLWI for your response.

4. Why does each person wait until it's their turn to look their cards? When I play locally I look at them right when they're dealt to me.

5. Why is there an ante and how does that work? When I play there is no ante bet.

HB. Didn't you try your hand at VP and Table games? I'm not sure how that went but if that didn't go well I would proceed with caution with poker, it's significantly harder to make money at poker than something like VP.

With BJ and VP and various other advantage plays the math and strategy dictates if you have an advantage.(Excluding bet ramping and various tricks on BJ)

There's no clear one way or formula how to play poker(just guidelines), it's harder than chess because there is much, much more going on. And just like chess....at some point you hit limit of how well you can play no, matter how hard you try. You can play everyday for years, and still not be able to beat a guy who almost never plays.

It could take a very long time to really know if or when you have an advantage playing poker. You might have an advantage one year, but then slowly change your style of play without even noticing and actually start playing worst. At some point you might be playing with some of the same players who eventually get your number.


Without lessons it will take a very long time to learn well enough for you to become a profitable player. And with lessons it will take a long time too. Winning tournaments short term is meaningless, if you're winning after hundreds hours then you might have something. MINIMUM 300 hours before you can even start to believe you're talented enough to be a winning player.

You mentions you did ok in a few tournaments, well, Chris Moneymaker won the WSOP and many consider his play as one of losing player.

There's guys who have been playing poker weekly even daily for 30+ years and they are losing players.
Walk into a few local Vegas poker rooms and you can probably find one(they are usually the older grouchy ones, just like the grouchy old betting system payers you find online)

FYI Math isn't the most important aspect in poker, Logic is, and that's not something that can be thought.

A very low percentage of poker players are lifetime winners.

Then there's the whole female poker player situation. IMO I dont think most females have the same competitive killer instincts as men do. I'm not saying females can't play as well or are not as good *see Vanessa Selbst.

There's also a premium on female poker players, especially in the WSOP, they get lots of attention if they run deep in tournaments and they can more easily obtain sponsorship's.

PS. I think players should learn ABC LIMIT poker first before they get into NL.

Quote: HotBlonde

Thank you BTLWI for your response.

4. Why does each person wait until it's their turn to look their cards? When I play locally I look at them right when they're dealt to me.

5. Why is there an ante and how does that work? When I play there is no ante bet.

Good players can read tells from players that look before it's their turn.

Antes are used in tournaments only (except stud games).

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Good players can read tells from players that look before it's their turn.

Antes are use in tournaments only (except stud games).

I hate to be picky, but they can use antes in any cash games, even in holdem. Its just very very rare and it's done when a group of people ask for it.

6. Why sometimes does it show only one of the person's hole cards on the screen as opposed to both of them?

Quote: HotBlonde

6. Why sometimes does it show only one of the person's hole cards on the screen as opposed to both of them?

The cards on the televised final tables use RFID technology (which I don't like) and if placed in the wrong spot, the scanner won't pick it up.

Quote: AxelWolf

I hate to be picky, but they can use antes in any cash games, even in holdem. Its just very very rare and it's done when a group of people ask for it.

About as rare as 18 yos in a row ;-)

If you look at your hand right away, you probably have some sort of tell that you're going to play the hand or fold the hand. When it's your turn to act, always look to your left and see if anyone is telegraphing that information. For example you might be in the cut off and notice the small blind already looked and didn't put his card protector on his cards, indicating he's going to fold. That can turn a hand like Q8s from a fold to a shove because it's one less person that has to fold.

And just waiting your turn isn't enough. While waiting you need to watch each player as they look and try to pick up tells. Since I've gotten glasses 3 years ago I'm amazed at how I can see subtle things like minor shaking in a hand from across the table, or a neck vain that suddenly starts rapidly pulsing.

Quote: HotBlonde

1. Why if you have tens of millions of dollars are you betting and raising mostly very small amounts?

Not sure what you mean. The amount people bet is proportional to the blinds and pot size.

So I've been playing, mostly for free, and I'm starting to catch on. I'm doing a lot more folding now than I was when I first started, a lot more. I find myself not wanting to do that but I think it's smarter over the long run.

I played my first cash buy-in game the other night and lost $85. Obviously I'm not happy about that. I came in 7th out of 8 players. Then I played 3 tables the next night (a free game) and don't remember how I placed on the first 2 tables but I did reach 2nd place on the last table. And the night after that I placed 5th place out of about 24 people or so on my first table and then 7th place on the next two tables. So I still have a lot of improving that needs to be done and I've been practicing online although that's different than playing in person obviously.

The leader of the poker league MeetUp that I've been going to told me I should go play in a real tournament with them and other people (about 100 or so people total). He said it would be a good fit for me. It's at the Normandie casino here in Los Angeles which I've never been to. It's $30 to enter if I RSVP in my group by the night before. And I know it's only $30 but I'm still so new and still reading up on stuff that I feel like it's almost guaranteed I'd be throwing that money away.

Weren't you playing black chip and 25 dollar denom vp? The 30 shouldn't be an issue- that being said - you seem like you have a new found love/ free leagues are a million times different then real money so tread with caution

Quote: HotBlonde

The leader of the poker league MeetUp that I've been going to told me I should go play in a real tournament with them and other people (about 100 or so people total).

Pffft. The $10,000 Main Event started today. Make the October/November Nine, now that would be a story.

How come I sometimes see poker players on tv wearing headphones? Are they listening to music?

Quote: HotBlonde

How come I sometimes see poker players on tv wearing headphones? Are they listening to music?

Because playing for 10 hours gets very boring. It's nice to have some music or a podcast to listen to.

I have gone over an hour without playing a single hand.

Quote: HotBlonde

It's at the Normandie casino here in Los Angeles which I've never been to.

I thought the Normandie just closed. Or if not, it announced it was closing. I don't live there now, but it was my favorite card room for years. I played 1000s of hours there since the 70s, back when there was no such thing as Commerce or the Bike. It was family-run, friendly place, a lot of history. Started playing there when it was on Western Ave. I'm not sure but I thought I read that it was the first card room in California. The article said that crud-ball Larry Flynt was looking to buy it and modernize it and add a hotel. That would be a shame, it was fine as it was, in my opinion. But time changes, life goes on. I'll always have great memories of the Normandie.

Quote: GWAE

Because playing for 10 hours gets very boring. It's nice to have some music or a podcast to listen to.

I have gone over an hour without playing a single hand.

I know some great players wear headphones and listen to music, but I've always thought it was stupid. There is A LOT to pay attention to in a poker game, things you're going to miss if you're wearing headphones. Besides being stupid, it even looks stupid.

HotBlonde, as a PSA, try not to take too much from your results right now, good or bad. Poker is a game of skill, but in the short term, there is a lot of luck involved, and the short term is a lot longer than you might think. So just keep focusing on learning and trying to make the right decisions.