Super 4 Progressive Blackjack
March 24th, 2015 at 3:06:44 PM
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My impression is that the "highest payout only" rule is NOT currently in force on this game, perhaps because there is in fact no SPECIFIC claim made in the official documentation of the rules. This is not on full authority, but is based on conversations I have had with a couple of floor people, who, when I broached the subject, rolled their eyes, smiled, and said there had been much discussion about it.
Whether this is general knowledge out there where people are betting on this, or if it's only true if you bitch about it, if and when you win with a multiple prize on the line, I don't know.
It's such a simple thing to put the limitation somewhere in the fine print, even if it's buried in some filing with the some Department of Silly Rules, it's got to be somebody's screwup which you would think they would have thought of.
Although, was it Mohegan or Foxwoods who had some kind of "Triple Down" promotion that, in the one day that it was offered, nearly put them out of business?
Whether this is general knowledge out there where people are betting on this, or if it's only true if you bitch about it, if and when you win with a multiple prize on the line, I don't know.
It's such a simple thing to put the limitation somewhere in the fine print, even if it's buried in some filing with the some Department of Silly Rules, it's got to be somebody's screwup which you would think they would have thought of.
Although, was it Mohegan or Foxwoods who had some kind of "Triple Down" promotion that, in the one day that it was offered, nearly put them out of business?
March 24th, 2015 at 3:41:48 PM
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Quote: racquetMy impression is that the "highest payout only" rule is NOT currently in force on this game, perhaps because there is in fact no SPECIFIC claim made in the official documentation of the rules. This is not on full authority, but is based on conversations I have had with a couple of floor people, who, when I broached the subject, rolled their eyes, smiled, and said there had been much discussion about it.
Whether this is general knowledge out there where people are betting on this, or if it's only true if you bitch about it, if and when you win with a multiple prize on the line, I don't know.
It's such a simple thing to put the limitation somewhere in the fine print, even if it's buried in some filing with the some Department of Silly Rules, it's got to be somebody's screwup which you would think they would have thought of.
Although, was it Mohegan or Foxwoods who had some kind of "Triple Down" promotion that, in the one day that it was offered, nearly put them out of business?
The Triple Down Promotion was in July, 2010 at Mohegan Sun. I played it for 10 hours and won only a modest amount playing according to the chart provided by the Wizard. I had hoped, nay expected, to win more. The casino claims they lost their shirt and that may be so. We never got a second crack at the game so maybe there's some truth to it. Many played for the entire 18 hours. I personally know of one team that was down 50k before noon. Many CTRs that day.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
March 24th, 2015 at 3:43:38 PM
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Quote: racquetI agree, and if the mid-level people who responded had had any backbone they would have (politely maybe) rebuffed the original player and moved on. Their mistake was in doing anything other than paying $100.
I disagree 100%. They ended up handling it properly. Just because other games pay only highest winning combination doesn't mean that is how this game plays out. If it is not in the rules submitted to gaming then all combinations should be paid until the rules are changed.
You can't know everything, but you can know anything.
March 24th, 2015 at 4:51:01 PM
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My mistake was in assuming that the rules DID in fact state what was needed to avoid this problem, and that what was lacking was the intestinal fortitude to deal with the abuse from the winner. Once the dog sees the fear in your eyes you are dead, and that's what I saw on Friday. I would have bet that one way or another that by Monday the storm would have abated and something - the rules as published somewhere - a change in the rules - closing down the game - would have put an end to it.
My thinking now is that they didn't hire a lawyer who gambles to peruse the written description of the game. Could they have been so stupid?
With FreeBet, they installed it in one pit, at what - six tables? with six new felts and a stack of a couple of hundred table cards. Whatever killed that game - dealer unhappiness, house losses, inconsistent rule application, player apathy - when they scrapped it they replaced a few felts and threw out some freebet tokens, move on.
This is different. Every table (?) in the joint has had this game embedded in the felt and on the new electronic table signs. Even if they could reprogram the video signs for a different game (and in fact THAT improvement would make a lot of sense, to be able to put in a new game by a programming change that gets pushed out into the video screen), it's the felt that's a problem.
Assuming that there IS in fact a legal issue with this (which we don't know for sure), can they just republish / resubmit the rules, get approval for the inserting the missing "higher winning hand only" in the verbiage, and carry on? Or is this game as instituted on day one, and the accompanying deficient rules, cast in stone?
Consider this. A royal flush in diamonds (100% jackpot), is also a Royal Flush (10%) as well as a Straight ($500) as well as a Flush ($400), a Same Color ($100) and an Any Hand ($25).
So a Royal Flush in Diamonds would pay 110% of the Progressive, as well as an additional $1025. OK, so I am going to tip the dealer the $1025. But I sure as hell want that 10% additional piece of the Progressive.
Oh, you say. The rules MUST distinguish between a Diamond-Flush and a Non-Diamond Flush so as to keep you from winning 110% of the jackpot?
Uh huh. Maybe it does. I don't bet this stupid thing, but I hope whomever wins it asks to see the rules.
My thinking now is that they didn't hire a lawyer who gambles to peruse the written description of the game. Could they have been so stupid?
With FreeBet, they installed it in one pit, at what - six tables? with six new felts and a stack of a couple of hundred table cards. Whatever killed that game - dealer unhappiness, house losses, inconsistent rule application, player apathy - when they scrapped it they replaced a few felts and threw out some freebet tokens, move on.
This is different. Every table (?) in the joint has had this game embedded in the felt and on the new electronic table signs. Even if they could reprogram the video signs for a different game (and in fact THAT improvement would make a lot of sense, to be able to put in a new game by a programming change that gets pushed out into the video screen), it's the felt that's a problem.
Assuming that there IS in fact a legal issue with this (which we don't know for sure), can they just republish / resubmit the rules, get approval for the inserting the missing "higher winning hand only" in the verbiage, and carry on? Or is this game as instituted on day one, and the accompanying deficient rules, cast in stone?
Consider this. A royal flush in diamonds (100% jackpot), is also a Royal Flush (10%) as well as a Straight ($500) as well as a Flush ($400), a Same Color ($100) and an Any Hand ($25).
So a Royal Flush in Diamonds would pay 110% of the Progressive, as well as an additional $1025. OK, so I am going to tip the dealer the $1025. But I sure as hell want that 10% additional piece of the Progressive.
Oh, you say. The rules MUST distinguish between a Diamond-Flush and a Non-Diamond Flush so as to keep you from winning 110% of the jackpot?
Uh huh. Maybe it does. I don't bet this stupid thing, but I hope whomever wins it asks to see the rules.
April 6th, 2015 at 8:37:09 AM
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The Royal Flush in diamonds has been hit twice that I know of without the $5 bet in play. That changed this past weekend, yesterday I believe, when a woman from New York hit it for about $480,000. I'm told that she took $10k in cash and the rest in a check. She remained quiet but the table went wild as she distributed money to the other players and the dealer. She was later heard complaining about the taxes that she was going to have to pay to New York state. I give her a pass as that could be a life changing amount for her and the reality probably hadn't sunk in. I am glad she took the bulk of it in a check because, I'm told, she suddenly had a lot of new friends.
I was under the impression that the meter would be reset to $50k after the payout but this morning it was already at $155,000. There's some confusion because it couldn't have increased that quickly from $50k. I've been told by a reliable source that 81 cents of each $5 bet goes to the progressive.
If anyone would rather not play tables with this bet, I know of 15 that do not have it. They are low minimum but don't open until sometime in the afternoon. The $500 minimum pit in the Casino of the Sky doesn't have them either but if you're playing there you're not worried about side bets.
I was under the impression that the meter would be reset to $50k after the payout but this morning it was already at $155,000. There's some confusion because it couldn't have increased that quickly from $50k. I've been told by a reliable source that 81 cents of each $5 bet goes to the progressive.
If anyone would rather not play tables with this bet, I know of 15 that do not have it. They are low minimum but don't open until sometime in the afternoon. The $500 minimum pit in the Casino of the Sky doesn't have them either but if you're playing there you're not worried about side bets.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
April 6th, 2015 at 3:42:43 PM
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Do you know where the win occurred? I had heard that there was a diamond Royal Flush in the $5 pit, but that there was no bet on at the time. That the person who had it was betting it regularly, passed on that hand, and then was so upset that he/she couldn't play any more and left. But just a rumor, I did not see it happen myself.
April 6th, 2015 at 4:05:46 PM
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Quote: 1BB
I was under the impression that the meter would be reset to $50k after the payout but this morning it was already at $155,000. There's some confusion because it couldn't have increased that quickly from $50k. I've been told by a reliable source that 81 cents of each $5 bet goes to the progressive.
Chances are a little bit of every $5 goes toward the reseed. If it's 5 cents per $5, the reseed fund would have accumulated $132,716.05 when the progressive reached $480,000.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
April 6th, 2015 at 5:15:32 PM
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Would that be the Bow & Arrow tables? They have never had side bets before, and I saw as of Sunday they still did not. As for low minimum, long ago and far away they advertised "always $10." The table minimums now fluctuate with the other Earth casino tables. I think they are closed for the weekdays and open only for the weekends and holidays.Quote: 1BB... If anyone would rather not play tables with this bet, I know of 15 that do not have it. They are low minimum but don't open until sometime in the afternoon. ...
On Sunday morning I watched a woman seated with me at a $10 table play the progressive for every hand of a shoe. Bubkus back. I patrolled the tables a few times over several days and saw some play for the progressive, but not a lot. Two spots on eight 5-player tables on my first count. There was always some play, but not a lot. Seeding the next round at +100K sounds like a good plan. There are a lot of progressive slots above that level, and that sets an expectation.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
April 6th, 2015 at 5:55:41 PM
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Quote: racquetDo you know where the win occurred? I had heard that there was a diamond Royal Flush in the $5 pit, but that there was no bet on at the time. That the person who had it was betting it regularly, passed on that hand, and then was so upset that he/she couldn't play any more and left. But just a rumor, I did not see it happen myself.
I didn't think to ask where the win occurred. It was during a time when all the tables were open so it could have been anywhere. I'm curious as well so I'll see if I can pin it down when I return later this week. For those not familiar, there are over 100 blackjack tables at the Connecticut Mohegan Sun.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
April 6th, 2015 at 6:04:07 PM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyWould that be the Bow & Arrow tables? They have never had side bets before, and I saw as of Sunday they still did not. As for low minimum, long ago and far away they advertised "always $10." The table minimums now fluctuate with the other Earth casino tables. I think they are closed for the weekdays and open only for the weekends and holidays.
On Sunday morning I watched a woman seated with me at a $10 table play the progressive for every hand of a shoe. Bubkus back. I patrolled the tables a few times over several days and saw some play for the progressive, but not a lot. Two spots on eight 5-player tables on my first count. There was always some play, but not a lot. Seeding the next round at +100K sounds like a good plan. There are a lot of progressive slots above that level, and that sets an expectation.
Yes, the eight Bow & Arrow tables have special felts depicting various sports that they seem to want to preserve. When walking into the Sky from the retail area, there are seven tables behind the craps table that you first see that do not have the bet. I have no idea why but if this game takes off you can bet that will change.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
April 7th, 2015 at 2:17:25 PM
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At first I thought that the new video displays that were installed as part of this game would be useful going forward in installing new side games if this one did not catch on, which I thought it wouldn't.
However, this new game's payout is "hard-coded" in the felt. Even if they wanted to download a different display to the video screens, the felt has the game embedded in it. Looks to me like they are committed to this one, unlike "House Money" and FreeBet, which they installed on a trial basis.
I have changed my thinking on its success too. For those of us down in steerage, at the lower end of table minimums like $5 and $10, a $5 side bet, requiring a dealer blackjack, is a significant wager, not a "side" bet at all. And let's not forget that they sweep away our initial $5 bet right off the bat. So a $25 "any hand" payoff is really only $20. So also for all of the lower non-progressive payouts. For higher limit tables, a $5 side bet is truly that - a relative pittance if you are betting $25, $50 or more, per hand, almost like "insurance" against a dealer blackjack.
Since the flashing lights imply the ability to monitor who is making this bet (and with the possibility of matching that information against the rating system that is tied to a specific seat at the table), they ought to have a really detailed return of data about this game, and precisely which individuals are playing it, probably indirectly proportional to table minimum.
However, this new game's payout is "hard-coded" in the felt. Even if they wanted to download a different display to the video screens, the felt has the game embedded in it. Looks to me like they are committed to this one, unlike "House Money" and FreeBet, which they installed on a trial basis.
I have changed my thinking on its success too. For those of us down in steerage, at the lower end of table minimums like $5 and $10, a $5 side bet, requiring a dealer blackjack, is a significant wager, not a "side" bet at all. And let's not forget that they sweep away our initial $5 bet right off the bat. So a $25 "any hand" payoff is really only $20. So also for all of the lower non-progressive payouts. For higher limit tables, a $5 side bet is truly that - a relative pittance if you are betting $25, $50 or more, per hand, almost like "insurance" against a dealer blackjack.
Since the flashing lights imply the ability to monitor who is making this bet (and with the possibility of matching that information against the rating system that is tied to a specific seat at the table), they ought to have a really detailed return of data about this game, and precisely which individuals are playing it, probably indirectly proportional to table minimum.
April 8th, 2015 at 1:48:59 PM
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Quote: racquetDo you know where the win occurred? I had heard that there was a diamond Royal Flush in the $5 pit, but that there was no bet on at the time. That the person who had it was betting it regularly, passed on that hand, and then was so upset that he/she couldn't play any more and left. But just a rumor, I did not see it happen myself.
Pit 24 in the Sky Casino. It's the pit closest to the Riverview Garage.
The casino hosted a casting call for The Amazing Race today that attracted some interesting looking hopefuls.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 6th, 2015 at 3:45:22 PM
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Not much to update. I still see hardly anyone playing this side bet. The progressive is just over $500,000 and has only been hit the one time. There have been a few hits for 10% which is why it's not higher.
For the more adventurous, the progressive on Fortune Pai Gow is over $1,000,000.
For the more adventurous, the progressive on Fortune Pai Gow is over $1,000,000.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 6th, 2015 at 4:07:13 PM
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Quote: 1BBFor the more adventurous, the progressive on Fortune Pai Gow is over $1,000,000.
ah-OOOOOH-ga!
Isn't that the biggest that jackpot has ever gotten anywhere by like, a lot?
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
May 7th, 2015 at 3:18:52 AM
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Quote: Deucekiesah-OOOOOH-ga!
Isn't that the biggest that jackpot has ever gotten anywhere by like, a lot?
Somebody's excited! Do you need a ride from the airport? Green or Bradley? :-)
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 7th, 2015 at 12:52:44 PM
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Quote: 1BBSomebody's excited! Do you need a ride from the airport? Green or Bradley? :-)
Oh, I wouldn't make the trip for it, but I'll be interested to hear when it gets hit.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
May 16th, 2015 at 11:09:04 AM
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The royal flush in diamonds was hit for the second time this past Thursday to the tune of $535,000. Several 10% jackpots were hit along the way but I still don't see this bet getting a lot of play as it can get expensive.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 18th, 2015 at 4:40:25 AM
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The jackpot was also hit around 2 am Sunday morning. Over $400K IIRC. I noticed the table displays announced "Jackpot Pending" in place of a dollar amount for well over a half hour before a new jackpot value of $200K+ was displayed. No one at the red chip table I was at played the Super 4 Bonus in the more than two hours I was playing. One curious inquiry was made to me by another player. The bonus was not talked up by the dealers when they had a blackjack, but that might have been due to a language barrier. I heard the usual remorseful chatter about empty Match the Dealer betting circles when wining hands were dealt, but nothing regarding the missed Super 4 Bonus payouts as the chips were being gathered after dealer blackjacks.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 18th, 2015 at 8:16:20 AM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyThe jackpot was also hit around 2 am Sunday morning. Over $400K IIRC. I noticed the table displays announced "Jackpot Pending" in place of a dollar amount for well over a half hour before a new jackpot value of $200K+ was displayed. No one at the red chip table I was at played the Super 4 Bonus in the more than two hours I was playing. One curious inquiry was made to me by another player. The bonus was not talked up by the dealers when they had a blackjack, but that might have been due to a language barrier. I heard the usual remorseful chatter about empty Match the Dealer betting circles when wining hands were dealt, but nothing regarding the missed Super 4 Bonus payouts as the chips were being gathered after dealer blackjacks.
Something seems off. The jackpot was just over 200k on Saturday around noon. That would mean it rose over 200k in just over 12 hours. It's been taking much, much longer to even go up 50k. We just don't know how many 10% hits there were which would slow it down even more.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 18th, 2015 at 9:38:49 AM
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I qualified the $400K as "if I recall correctly," I could have been wrong! Also, I thought it odd that after the "Jackpot Pending" notice the amount was $200K+. Perhaps there was a "false alarm" and the pending jackpot was disqualified. Also, I just realized (and more likely) the "Jackpot Pending" might have been for a 10% payout of an other-than-diamonds royal flush. Sorry everyone... show's over... nothing more here to see... go on about your business... go home to your loved ones.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 18th, 2015 at 9:57:31 AM
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If you play 100 hands per hour and play the 5 bucks every hand, how much of that $500 an hour should you expect to get back? You want to see the dealer stop getting blackjack every 21 hands? Play the side bet. :-)
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 21st, 2015 at 10:14:07 AM
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Effective this morning there have been some changes to this side bet.
Royal Flush (Diamonds) 100% of meter. Envy - $3,000
Royal Flush (Other three) 10% of meter. Envy - $1,000
Three of a kind - $750 - same
Straight - $400 - was $500
Flush - $300 - was $400
Two Pair - $200 - was $300
All same color - $100 - same
Pair- $50 - was $75
Any hand - $25- same
Dealer ace up- -$10 new
My observation over several different days of the week and all shifts, and from listening to casino types, is that this bet has bombed badly. If it wasn't broke why would they be trying to fix it? It now looks a little more appealing. Is it or are they pulling a bait and switch? Is the added envy bonus enough to entice more play? Would anyone care to run the numbers?
Royal Flush (Diamonds) 100% of meter. Envy - $3,000
Royal Flush (Other three) 10% of meter. Envy - $1,000
Three of a kind - $750 - same
Straight - $400 - was $500
Flush - $300 - was $400
Two Pair - $200 - was $300
All same color - $100 - same
Pair- $50 - was $75
Any hand - $25- same
Dealer ace up- -$10 new
My observation over several different days of the week and all shifts, and from listening to casino types, is that this bet has bombed badly. If it wasn't broke why would they be trying to fix it? It now looks a little more appealing. Is it or are they pulling a bait and switch? Is the added envy bonus enough to entice more play? Would anyone care to run the numbers?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 21st, 2015 at 2:39:56 PM
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NUUUM-bers, NUUUM-bers... we want NUUUM-bers!!! Nice planning that they don't have to refelt the tables. Haven't seen anything stating only one payout amount per win.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 21st, 2015 at 2:52:35 PM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyNUUUM-bers, NUUUM-bers... we want NUUUM-bers!!! Nice planning that they don't have to refelt the tables. Haven't seen anything stating only one payout amount per win.
New felts will be installed forthwith. The table signs were easy to change and they want the felts to reflect the changes. There are temporary plastic plaques on the existing felts with the changes. The dealers are frustrated because they are near the shoe which gets hung up on them.
Does the envy do it for you?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 21st, 2015 at 3:08:16 PM
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Break Even JP: 813,698.54 minus $4615.38 for each other player.
| Hand | Payout | Freq | Prob | Return |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| RF Diam 100% | 813,698.54 | 7,776 | 0.0000016732 | 1.361490539613 |
| RF 10% | 81,369.85 | 23,328 | 0.0000050196 | 0.408447161884 |
| Trips | 750 | 2,331,648 | 0.0005017159 | 0.376286892108 |
| Straight | 400 | 1,959,552 | 0.0004216495 | 0.168659816463 |
| Flush | 300 | 3,229,056 | 0.0006948170 | 0.208445090628 |
| 2 Pair | 200 | 2,408,832 | 0.0005183240 | 0.103664807826 |
| Same Color | 100 | 23,162,112 | 0.0049839422 | 0.498394219547 |
| Pair | 50 | 61,585,920 | 0.0132518427 | 0.662592136103 |
| Dealer BJ | 25 | 125,991,936 | 0.0271105038 | 0.677762595785 |
| Dealer Ace Up | 10 | 248,287,680 | 0.0534256740 | 0.534256740045 |
| Lose | 0 | 4,178,359,800 | 0.8990848380 | 0.000000000000 |
| Totals | 4,647,347,640 | 5.000000000000 |
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 21st, 2015 at 3:17:28 PM
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That was fast! Thanks, miplet. I thought of you right away since you did the last one but I didn't want to put you on the spot. Thanks again!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 21st, 2015 at 3:44:52 PM
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What they have done here is more than double the hit rate, which I think is smart. The side bets out there that only have action on a BJ are very tough on the players with a 4.75% hit rate.......there was one at the Table Games Conference that had action on either a Player or Dealer BJ increasing the frequency to 9.5% range.
Super 4 now has just under a 10% hit rate, which is the minimum in my book. Any rate less than 10% feels like you are really "feeding the beast".......can work on a $1 bet, but not on $5 IMHO.
AGS has the Counts Kustom BJ Bonus system that activates on only a player BJ and then you hit the button and see what you have won. Actually, I just checked the website and you win even money on any Ace dealt in your hand......there you go, increasing that Hit Rate above 10%.
Super 4 may work in the revised format, but it is really difficult to bring players back once they have said.....'This game is a house game!". I do like the concept in Super 4.......feel it has a better chance at $1 min with corresponding lower starting payouts and this new Dealer Ace pay event.
Super 4 now has just under a 10% hit rate, which is the minimum in my book. Any rate less than 10% feels like you are really "feeding the beast".......can work on a $1 bet, but not on $5 IMHO.
AGS has the Counts Kustom BJ Bonus system that activates on only a player BJ and then you hit the button and see what you have won. Actually, I just checked the website and you win even money on any Ace dealt in your hand......there you go, increasing that Hit Rate above 10%.
Super 4 may work in the revised format, but it is really difficult to bring players back once they have said.....'This game is a house game!". I do like the concept in Super 4.......feel it has a better chance at $1 min with corresponding lower starting payouts and this new Dealer Ace pay event.
May 21st, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (Sorry for shouting.)
While trying to get EoR's, I noticed a mistake. Removing a single k,q, or j of diamonds should be the same, but its not in my spreadsheet. Hope I can find that evil error where ever it may be.
While trying to get EoR's, I noticed a mistake. Removing a single k,q, or j of diamonds should be the same, but its not in my spreadsheet. Hope I can find that evil error where ever it may be.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 21st, 2015 at 5:15:56 PM
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Thank you, miplet! Hope your bug hunt is a short one and the fix easy.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 21st, 2015 at 5:30:54 PM
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No, not quite. I did struggle with the idea of putting a nickle on the red sensor as I was playing one of my last hands, but in the end I left it and another as a tip. I have a plan to cause some commotion the next time I play, a slight modification to the Super 4 Bonus wager. Won't spill the beans now, but I'll post about it here after the next time I play at the Sun.Quote: 1BB... Does the envy do it for you?
Too bad they didn't try the "lets move the furniture around" strategy for Free Bet before they pulled it. Maybe management learned from that. They're certainly keeping the felting guys busy.
[offtopic]Lights out for Shine 360. Electronics have been pulled from the exhibit. Bet that was a career ending misstep for someone.[/offtopic]
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 22nd, 2015 at 12:16:45 AM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyThank you, miplet! Hope your bug hunt is a short one and the fix easy.
There were two errors in both versions. Didn't change the return unless you changed the deck composition.
Too lazy to do EoR's now, but you are more than welcome to do them yourself. Two links to my spreadsheets:
Direct link on my website: super4progressivev2.xlsb
Editable google doc: here
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 22nd, 2015 at 4:24:26 AM
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Your spreadsheet downloaded and was parsed cleanly by Excel. I hope to look it over later, just to see how you got the results. Doubtful I'll find your error. Impossible before coffee! Thanks again for your contribution to this thread and the forum in general.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 22nd, 2015 at 4:56:02 AM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyYour spreadsheet downloaded and was parsed cleanly by Excel. I hope to look it over later, just to see how you got the results. Doubtful I'll find your error. Impossible before coffee! Thanks again for your contribution to this thread and the forum in general.
I fixed the errors that I found. If you find any more please let me know. I didn't label most of the stuff in the spreadsheets, so it might be difficult to see what I did.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
May 30th, 2015 at 3:04:39 PM
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Do they pay the progressive out in full, assuming withholding for taxes, or is it in some form of annuity over time, as it is with lotteries? You never get the "$350 million jackpot" in powerball unless you take it in disbursements over years and years.
May 31st, 2015 at 10:19:34 AM
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The progressive value shown is paid, less taxes withheld, by your choice of check or cheques according to a dealer. I'm not sure I believe cheques are an option, but if they are you could start burning your winnings immediately instead of waiting for the check to clear.Quote: racquetDo they pay the progressive out in full, assuming withholding for taxes, or is it in some form of annuity over time, as it is with lotteries? You never get the "$350 million jackpot" in powerball unless you take it in disbursements over years and years.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 31st, 2015 at 11:40:08 AM
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The first winner took 10k in cash and the other 470k or so in a check and promptly blew the 10k in about 45 minutes. Some were wondering how much of the $5 goes into the progressive. That figure seems to be 81 cents making it a little over 15%.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 1st, 2015 at 9:45:31 AM
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Has anyone ever wondered what would would happen if two players hit the progressive in the same round? Would they each get the full payout? Would they split the payout? Would the first player to be dealt the royal win? No, no and no.
Only one player would win and it would be the first person paid meaning the person sitting farthest to the dealer's right. It's in the rules but not posted. The odds on that happening must be very high.
Only one player would win and it would be the first person paid meaning the person sitting farthest to the dealer's right. It's in the rules but not posted. The odds on that happening must be very high.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 1st, 2015 at 4:08:06 PM
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Quote: 1BBIt's in the rules but not posted. The odds on that happening must be very high.
So there are written rules that you have seen? How do you get a copy?
June 1st, 2015 at 4:18:32 PM
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Quote: racquetSo there are written rules that you have seen? How do you get a copy?
I didn't see them and I don't know about getting a copy. My information comes from a longtime pit boss who had just attended a high level meeting with the Table Games Manager and various executives. His information has always been accurate.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 1st, 2015 at 4:27:01 PM
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I infer from my previous post that the absence of a posted jackpot amount is the queue for players that there is no jackpot at the moment. However, it's possible someday someone will put up a nickle under those circumstances and be sorely disappointed when their winning hand pays nothing. I suppose it's just hoping for too much that the dealers are trained to turn back Super 4 Progressive wagers that can't possibly win.Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly... I noticed the table displays announced "Jackpot Pending" in place of a dollar amount for well over a half hour before a new jackpot value of $200K+ was displayed. ...
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
June 1st, 2015 at 6:18:36 PM
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Ooops! I failed to read and understand your post, 1BB, and was thinking about the possibility that simultaneous wins could happen at different tables. Based on what you've said I would assume the first table to notify "gaming central" would get the jackpot. I wonder what they would say to the holder of the losing hand who placed the wager while the jackpot amount was still displayed. My guess at your question is the odds of having a second royal diamond jackpot win dealt at the same table is about 0.000521975 (5/9579). Mathletes are welcome (and encouraged) to give a better answer.
[Edit: Odds on first hand deal with the burn card not one of the cards needed for a second winning hand: 0.000525365 (25/47586). With the burn card being a card needed for the second winning hand: 0.000420292 (10/23793).]
[Edit: Odds on first hand deal with the burn card not one of the cards needed for a second winning hand: 0.000525365 (25/47586). With the burn card being a card needed for the second winning hand: 0.000420292 (10/23793).]
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
June 2nd, 2015 at 4:52:29 PM
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I'm assuming the second of the two would win the reseeded jackpot rather than nothing.
Example: Jackpot is at $430,000, two people hit at the same time. One player gets the $430,000. Jackpot goes back down to $100,000. Other player wins $100,000.
Example: Jackpot is at $430,000, two people hit at the same time. One player gets the $430,000. Jackpot goes back down to $100,000. Other player wins $100,000.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
June 19th, 2015 at 3:58:20 PM
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The progressive was hit early this week for about $550K. This is the third time in about 15 weeks. That doesn't tell us much without knowing how much play the side bet is getting. I see so few playing it that I wasn't going to bother posting this. People aren't that interested and from the grumblings that I've heard, it may have to do with betting $5. They have already tweaked it once but I wonder if they could find a way to lower the bet.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 19th, 2015 at 6:01:53 PM
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$1 Progressive is the key for this game to work long term IMHO. The revision to a 10% hit rate with a $1 bet amount and having a $100,000+ payout (e.g. 1/5 of the last couple of jackpot pays) hitting three times in 15 weeks......that will have some people playing!
June 20th, 2015 at 5:18:07 AM
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Quote: Paradigm$1 Progressive is the key for this game to work long term IMHO. The revision to a 10% hit rate with a $1 bet amount and having a $100,000+ payout (e.g. 1/5 of the last couple of jackpot pays) hitting three times in 15 weeks......that will have some people playing!
If only you could go there and talk to them but, remember, these are the folks who couldn't figure out what to do with an established game like Blackjack Switch.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 20th, 2015 at 5:18:11 AM
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When they introduced linked jackpots in the UK I asked this question. It seems they would use the video recording as they (apparently) synchronise the videos every morning. When there's a small payout (I've never witnessed a large one) they used to turn a key and enter the hand and it's payout showed up - in this case the sum was taken from the running jackpot pool (the 5-card poker version). Thus if there was a jackpot payout it would have to be ordered with any other payouts at the time.Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly....I would assume the first table to notify "gaming central" would get the jackpot....
June 29th, 2015 at 4:27:51 AM
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I tried to post a Super 4 Progressive bet of $4 for me and $1 for the dealer. The dealer immediately informed me I could not place a bet for him on that side bet. The policy makes sense: with a large jackpot the house doesn't want the person handling the cards to have a shot at the money. I was surprised that the refusal was immediate and did not require a consultation with the pit boss. Mohegan Sun trained the staff well in this case!
Kept the bet in place and the dealer had BJ for a $25 payout, net $20. The woman playing next to me was posting the progressive bet every hand. Her husband explained that she had a nice win earlier she was intent on giving it back a nickle at a time.
Kept the bet in place and the dealer had BJ for a $25 payout, net $20. The woman playing next to me was posting the progressive bet every hand. Her husband explained that she had a nice win earlier she was intent on giving it back a nickle at a time.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
September 28th, 2015 at 1:45:24 PM
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Quote: 1BBThe progressive was hit early this week for about $550K. This is the third time in about 15 weeks. That doesn't tell us much without knowing how much play the side bet is getting. I see so few playing it that I wasn't going to bother posting this. People aren't that interested and from the grumblings that I've heard, it may have to do with betting $5. They have already tweaked it once but I wonder if they could find a way to lower the bet.
I just got my regular e-mail from Mohegan Sun Pocono and they are introducing the super 4 progressive there as well (not surprising). I have no immediate plans to head out there but I should make the trip in October or early November. Here is the payout according to the e-mail:
Payouts
Royal Flush - Diamonds - 100% - $600 envy
Royal Flush - Other ---- 10% - $200 envy
Trips - ---------------- $100
Straigh ---------------- $75
Flush ------------------ $50
Two Pair --------------- $25
All same coloer -------- $15
Pair ------------------- $10
Any hand --------------- $4
Dealer Ace Up ---------- $2
* based on a $1 wager
No indication of the minimum bet.
September 28th, 2015 at 3:22:50 PM
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Quote: bj4funI just got my regular e-mail from Mohegan Sun Pocono and they are introducing the super 4 progressive there as well (not surprising). I have no immediate plans to head out there but I should make the trip in October or early November. Here is the payout according to the e-mail:
Payouts
Royal Flush - Diamonds - 100% - $600 envy
Royal Flush - Other ---- 10% - $200 envy
Trips - ---------------- $100
Straigh ---------------- $75
Flush ------------------ $50
Two Pair --------------- $25
All same coloer -------- $15
Pair ------------------- $10
Any hand --------------- $4
Dealer Ace Up ---------- $2
* based on a $1 wager
No indication of the minimum bet.
The bet in Connecticut is $5. If you multiply the Pocono payments by 5 the only ones that match would be the two envies and the dealer ace up. The rest are less than Ct. Keep us posted if you can.
By the way, here in Ct. the Pai Gow Fortune progressive is at $1.7 million.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
September 28th, 2015 at 3:26:04 PM
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I expect it will be just like Mohegan Sun Connecticut: the Super 4 Progressive side bet is fixed and independent of table minimums. I'm surprised the bet amount isn't the same between Connecticut and Pocono so they could combine the bonus play.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
