claim online casinos rigged

To paraphrase and to take advice from Arthur Weasley in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, I'd never play an online casino if I can't see where it keeps its brain.

Gene

Quote: heatmap

Where is teliot when you need him
link to original post

"saving the planet"
That's not a joke.

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: gordonm888

Why rich people don't steal and do dishonorable things

Putin's net worth has been estimated at $70 billion - I've never read anything about him owning or running any business

link to original post

Russian political analyst Stanislav Belkovsky claimed in 2012 that the Russian leader had stakes in companies such as Surgutneftegas, Gazprom and Gunvor and, told the Bureau of Investigative Journalism that his true wealth was around $40 billion.

Quote: gordonm888

"Why online casinos don't cheat" And in your second paragraph, you give an account of an online casino that does cheat.

With bated breath, I await your articles on: Why men don't cheat on their wives; Why tax-payers don't cheat; Why politicians don't lie; Why corruption doesn't exist; Why people don't use drugs and Why rich people don't steal and do dishonorable things ...

Bwwaaa Haaa haa.
link to original post

"Bwwaa Haaa haa" is an insulting taunt. You're mocking my claims by saying they're so stupid that you're openly laughing at them. I'll keep that in mind as I reply.


(1) You somehow failed to notice that the one example of a cheating casino I gave was OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO, and I gave it to one of the reasons WHY online cheating is so rare.

(2) You also fail to understand the concept of a GENERALIZATION. The statement "dogs are larger that cats" is true IN GENERAL, but not in every single case. Most people understand this. Likewise, when I linked to my article, I used the same shorthand, saying "why online casinos don't cheat", assuming my audience was smart enough to understand the generalization. I'm sorry I was wrong.

(3) Everything I said in my article is 100% true, and,

(4) You've provided absolutely no evidence to the contrary. "Bwwaa Haaa haa" is not evidence.

(5) Your only argument (devoid of actual evidence) is that my reasoning could be applied to cheating spouses and taxpayers, etc., is absurd for obvious reasons. (Well, obvious to people with minimal reasoning skills.) I could explain why the analogies are poor, but after your mocking me, I'm inclined to do, especially as you've made it clear that you're not capable of understanding the explanation (just that you're capable of laughing at it).

Quote: GenoDRPh

To paraphrase and to take advice from Arthur Weasley in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, I'd never play an online casino if I can't see where it keeps its brain.

Gene
link to original post

To paraphrase AxelWolf.

"If you're an advantage player or someone who likes getting value, you're foolish to avoid playing online just because they might have some rigged software."

Find something that's more valuable that can overcome the possible rigged HA. Example %100 matching bonus with a 2x rollover. It would have to be horrendously rigged not to overcome that with a 100% bonus.

A rare extreme example nowadays, but there are situations that are almost as good.

Use rigged/bugged software to your advantage. I gave an example (screenshot above) of miss programmed, NOT RIGGED software. By all accounts and testing, the software was random. If you'll notice, It's $1 full pay duces wild.

It was shorting you 20 coins(max bet) on a very specific rare hand, however, a lowball natural straight flush was paying 4k. But, never mind all that, since they may notice the $3,955 overpay and simply adjust your account accordingly and as an AP/Value seeker, you are never going to inform them when shorted 20 coins(unless you're dumb ). They were also giving out very good bonuses.

So +EV off the top and good bonuses=Winning.

The stories I am seeing posted of casinos cheating seem to be 100% offshore casinos. This can be avoided by simply not playing at an unregulated casino. The same reason you should never play at Indian Casinos. Play at legit casinos and this can all be avoided (physically and online).

Quote: AxelWolf

I do agree that Bovada has a good reputation, I would absolutely play there. BetSoft And Nucleus is a major online software. To suggest online rigged software is RARE, is misleading.
link to original post

Hi AxelWolf. Your long post confused me
I'm trying to understand what you are getting at.

Bovada seemed to be caught using flawed Betsoft Software, back in 2016. They're two big and generally trusted suppliers, aren't they? And wasn't this more cockup than conspiracy?

Why do you suggest that "to suggest online rigged software is RARE, is misleading."

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: gordonm888

"Why online casinos don't cheat" And in your second paragraph, you give an account of an online casino that does cheat.

With bated breath, I await your articles on: Why men don't cheat on their wives; Why tax-payers don't cheat; Why politicians don't lie; Why corruption doesn't exist; Why people don't use drugs and Why rich people don't steal and do dishonorable things ...

Bwwaaa Haaa haa.
link to original post

"Bwwaa Haaa haa" is an insulting taunt. You're mocking my claims by saying they're so stupid that you're openly laughing at them. I'll keep that in mind as I reply.


(1) You somehow failed to notice that the one example of a cheating casino I gave was OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO, and I gave it to one of the reasons WHY online cheating is so rare.

(2) You also fail to understand the concept of a GENERALIZATION. The statement "dogs are larger that cats" is true IN GENERAL, but not in every single case. Most people understand this. Likewise, when I linked to my article, I used the same shorthand, saying "why online casinos don't cheat", assuming my audience was smart enough to understand the generalization. I'm sorry I was wrong.

(3) Everything I said in my article is 100% true, and,

(4) You've provided absolutely no evidence to the contrary. "Bwwaa Haaa haa" is not evidence.

(5) Your only argument (devoid of actual evidence) is that my reasoning could be applied to cheating spouses and taxpayers, etc., is absurd for obvious reasons. (Well, obvious to people with minimal reasoning skills.) I could explain why the analogies are poor, but after your mocking me, I'm inclined to do, especially as you've made it clear that you're not capable of understanding the explanation (just that you're capable of laughing at it).
link to original post

Not sure what to make of this bizarre response.

One of your five reasons was that mathematicians monitor the sites and publicly expose the sites. But apparently this has happened once in the history of the earth, 20 years ago. Most mathematicians seek to find vulnerabilities and exploit them for profit, not get into great legal struggles like Mike did. No one is paying us to do that.
***************
2011 Full Tilt Poker scandal - they didn't keep funds in the players' accounts, rather they spent much of the funds themselves and were unable to reimburse all players funds. The FBI called it a Ponzi scheme. And they secretly rigged the software to enable one or more players to be able to see their opponent's cards, causing other players to sustain unfair losses totaling many millions of dollars. I imagine they were too busy rolling in money to think of your 5 reasons not to cheat.

2015 Fan Duels Insider scandal A Draft Kings employee took advantage of insider information on which players bettors were selecting, and then used this insider info to place bets on Fan Duels that won him $350,000 (because he had an information advantage over normal bettors). This had been going on for a while.

Asian issue - I may or may not have consulted on this but anyway can't release specific information. Basically, software employees on a chinese-language gambling site allegedly rigged the software on one game ( a very simple game involving a single wager) so that they could give their friends a significant advantage over the house. Allegedly, they attempted to cover this up by rigging the same game so that the general public would lose at a higher rate -so the overall revenue from the game would remain the same. However, their friends and co-conspirators allegedly went hog-wild which resulted in the gambling site owner sustaining unexpected losses, which led to a no-publicity private investigation. I know of no public info about this alleged incident.

And of course, when a gambling site in a third world country is faltering, perhaps because their graphics are no longer modern, they have the option of just running off with the money that their remaining clients have placed in their account. Like Full Tilt Poker did. Its just an exit strategy -how to exit the business.

You are writing about an industry that has a culture of denying everything, that settles lawsuits without admitting wrongdoing, and that covers up incidents (or downplays publicity of them) because they don't want their business to be hurt. So, of course there isn't a long list of casino cheating scandals that have been proven beyond a doubt in court. Therefore, as a whiz-bang journalist, you conclude that casinos don't cheat and concoct 5 irrelevant reasons.

There's astronomical money in the gambling industry. I mean, the amount of money sloshing around is astronomical. But in Malayasia or Nigeria or the Caribbean, the online casino employees and the employees of whatever the regulatory agency is, are usually making a subsistence living and live in a culture in which corruption is common. And these employees see all this astronomical money. So, things happen. Always have, always will. Of course, you can adopt a Mr. Rodgers tone and list 5 reasons why the CEO of Caesars doesn't make a decision to authorize rigging games across his corporation - but I believe that isn't how games come to be rigged. IMO you are doing a disservice to your readers by under-informing them of the documented history of casino cheating (as limited as it is) and ignoring the risk of rigged games arising from real-world corruption in regulation and operation of online gambling sites.

And I'm surprised when journalists are lazy and demand that people on social media sites prove their statements. Why don't you try researching the subject yourself?

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: AxelWolf

I do agree that Bovada has a good reputation, I would absolutely play there. BetSoft And Nucleus is a major online software. To suggest online rigged software is RARE, is misleading.
link to original post

Hi AxelWolf. Your long post confused me
I'm trying to understand what you are getting at.

Bovada seemed to be caught using flawed Betsoft Software, back in 2016. They're two big and generally trusted suppliers, aren't they? And wasn't this more cockup than conspiracy?

Why do you suggest that "to suggest online rigged software is RARE, is misleading."
link to original post

Because it's not rare and he couldn't possibly know that since there are over 10,000 online casinos. I would ask him just how many different online casinos he has played at. What makes him an authority/expert to claim online casino rigging is rare?

It's so funny that the casino he uses as an example of after talking about it being rare had rigged software (intentional or not).

All this is after a few minutes of research, It could go on forever.

Quote: teliot

Quote: Caruso

Not one word about what you yourself call "gaffed software".

I have been in touch with the investigating commissioner at the GRA. This is the concluding paragraph from the last e-mail I sent him:

"This business is dirty. There is no getting around that. Whatever you can do to help clean up the companies that produce rogue products or the casinos that offer these programs is paramount. Going after individual players is secondary. The rogues are still out there in a big way. Go after them!"
link to original post

Eliot Jacobson: "It is outrageous that Legends defends its use of the corrupt BLR casino software."
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/1399903-article-blr-casino-software-pittsburg-tribune-review.html

https://www.casino.org/untrustworthy/
Amco Casino
Rigged Games
Lady Dream
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VIP Golden Club
Rigged Games
Wager21 Casino
Rigged Games

Quote: 4ofaKind

In regard to this issue being played out at Casinomeister involving programmed cheating software being used at online casinos, I thought it would be easier for anyone who might be interested in what really is taking place, and might want to read what I thought were the most telling posts, without having to read through 650 posts.

There was a great deal of great posts by many other forum members but below summarizes in detail the chain of events, which by the way is not over yet.


Dec. 27, 2012
Katie91 joins Casinomeister and posts documented play logs of two games she played. Real Deal and Hi-Lo Gambler. Claims her brother is a mathematician and suspects rigged software. She states here “I have taken a screen recording of the entire play log directly from the website in case Betfred attempt to lock the account and deny these results are accurate.” Also requests here “I would invite others to analyze these results to confirm that these games are not fair and for Betfred to offer their logs for these two games to a third-party to analyze.” Provides URL’s to game logs.

Dec. 31, 2012
Eliot Jacobson president of Jacobson Gaming, analyzes play logs and reports how the tests were performed and his conclusion that the games are in fact rigged. Read: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-4.html#post530810

Jan. 01, 2013
Bedfred rep joins thread and makes this statement. Read: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-5.html#post530976

Jan. 01, 2013
Eliot Jacobson provides additional analyzes. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-6.html#post531027

Jan. 03, 2013
Eliot posts lack of communication and or response: Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-7.html#post531409

Jan. 04, 2013
Bedfred rep makes statement attempting to explain accusations. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-8.html#post531537

Jan. 04, 2013
Eliot Jacobson responds to Betfred’s lackadaisical explanation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-8.html#post531552

Jan. 04, 2013
Eliot Jacobson details further. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-9.html#post531580

Forum member “thelawnet” posts evidence that free play plays differently then real play. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-13.html#post531776

Jan. 05, 2013
Katie91 “opening poster” requests additional 3 games to be analyzed she suspects also are cheating. Odd request since it indicates she knows more then first exposed. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531786

Jan. 05, 2013
Forum member “thelawnet” confirms additional games mentioned by Katie91 for review are in fact rigged. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531788

Jan. 05, 2013
Katie91 directs post to Bedfred asking why so many games are rigged. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531790

Jan. 06, 2013
Casinomeister makes first post and joins thread. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-15.html#post531936

Jan. 06, 2013
Eliot Jacobson expresses disgust with no response and drops out of investigation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-15.html#post532011

Jan. 07, 2013
Casinomeister changes title of thread. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-20.html#post532216

Jan. 07, 2013
NodicBet joins thread stating internal investigation being preformed. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-20.html#post532218

Jan. 07, 2013
Betfred sticks their own foot up their ass with this explanation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532256

Jan. 07, 2013
Forum member “thelawnet” is all over Betfred’s response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532263

Jan. 07, 2013
Eliot Jacobson puts Betfred in their place after absurd response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532267

Jan. 07, 2013
Bet365 contacts casinomeister and reports internal investigation in progress. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-22.html#post532300

Jan. 08, 2013
Betvictor rep. distances their casino from software provider. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-23.html#post532392

Jan. 08, 2013
Casinomeister posts UKGC’s response to issue. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-24.html#post532508

Jan. 10, 2013
Casinomeister attempts to clear Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-28.html#post532955

Jan 10, 2013
Eliot Jacobson corrects Casinomeister’s stupid attempt to clear Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-28.html#post533005

Jan. 11, 2013
Casinomeister posts Bet365’s full response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-29.html#post533232

Jan 11, 2013
Eliot Jacobson requests additional information from Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-29.html#post533258

Jan 12, 2013
NordicBet confirms faulty software, reimburses all players, and removes all games from Finsoft. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-30.html#post533400

Jan. 14, 2013
Casinomeister thanks everyone for their efforts, declares no wrongdoing on the part of Betfred, Bet365, or NordicBet, puts them back on accredited list, with the hopes of everything said being accepted and hopefully forgotten about. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-33.html#post533815

Jan. 14, 2013
Casinomeister’s further attempt to whitewash issue and sweep under carpet. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-34.html#post533857

Jan 15, 2013
Casinomeister attempts further whitewash. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-37.html#post534117

Jan. 17, 2013
Katie91 (opening poster) declared reimbursement received from Betfred, along with thank you letter from Betfred for bringing the issue to their attention. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-42.html#post534666

Jan. 18, 2013
Forum member “pokeraddict” confirms Nevada G.C.B. was notified of thread since Lotttomatica Software Company, the parent company of all software providers named throughout the thread is suppose to go up against the board for approval of additional gaming software license. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-44.html#post534758

Jan. 23, 2013
After 5 days of over 100 posts looking for more answers and not satisfied with any of the explanations, Casinomeister reveals investigation is being done by the GRA. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-54.html#post536085

Jan. 23, 2013
ALERT-ALERT (cover-up begins) The GRA has notified Casinomeister of some breaking news. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536242

Jan. 23 2013
"binary" Executive at Galewind Software Corp. a highly reputable software provider smells a cover-up coming. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536257

Jan 23, 2013
Casinomeister temporarily locks thread pending further information. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536268

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister reopens thread with breaking news. The opening poster is a fraud! Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536282

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister is waiting for statement from opening poster. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536292

Jan 24, 2013
Not sure what Casinomeister is saying here. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-57.html#post536304

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister explains to forum member, that if you suspect you’re being cheated, go to the people cheating you and ask them if they are. If they were they’ll give you your money back. No need to make the issue public using his forum. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-57.html#post536313

Jan. 24, 2013
Cover up thickens as opening poster is officially silenced. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-59.html#post536374

Jan. 24, 2013
Forum member “Balthazar” expresses concerns about Casinomeister’s actions. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-60.html#post536426

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister responds allegedly showing concern still about software. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-60.html#post536431


Jan. 24, 2013
Forum members start pointing out suspicious chain of events. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-61.html#post536477

Jan. 24, 2013
Additional suspicions from "binary" Executive at Galewind Software Corp. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-61.html#post536484

Jan. 25, 2013
Casinomeister can no longer take the badgering from posters suspecting an obvious cover-up and decides to close the thread till further information is available. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-65.html#post536653


Personally, I’m convinced the opening post was an insider and aware of what was going on, and for whatever reason tried to expose them under his sisters name.
link to original post

The above post by Axel is mindblowing. Best post of 2022, IMO


A good account of a online poker scandal, exposed in 2007, which involved the Absolute Poker site is found here

Absolute Poker Cheating Scandal

Basically, Absolute Poker created an administrative account that could log on as an observer in any game and that could see all the hole cards of all players. Employees would sit in the corporate office, use the administrative account and follow their associate around from table to table as he played in high-stakes cash games and notify him of all the hole cards of his opponents in every hand.

In cheating that began in about 2003, a separate poker site called UltimateBet employed the same technique so that employees could collaborate with a player and send him info on all the hole cards of his opponents to inform his decisions. Details are found here:
UltimateBet Cheating Scandal

These cheating scandals were completely independent of each other until Absolute Poker bought UltimateBet in late 2006.

Although this is online poker rather than online casino games, the principles are the same. Online gambling is simply software and the employees rigged the software so that they could collude with confederates to make large amounts of money from the gamblers using their site. I see no reason to believe that operators of casino sites behave more ethically than operators of online poker sites.

The only real barrier to this kind of behavior is regulation - but it can't be low-energy for-show regulation. It has to be vigorous regulation employing excellent systems and staff that can't be bought.

Quote: gordonm888

The above post by Axel is mindblowing. Best post of 2022, IMO


A good account of a online poker scandal, exposed in 2007, which involved the Absolute Poker site is found here

Absolute Poker Cheating Scandal

Basically, Absolute Poker created an administrative account that could log on as an observer in any game and that could see all the hole cards of all players. Employees would sit in the corporate office, use the administrative account and follow their associate around from table to table as he played in high-stakes cash games and notify him of all the hole cards of his opponents in every hand.

In cheating that began in about 2003, a separate poker site called UltimateBet employed the same technique so that employees could collaborate with a player and send him info on all the hole cards of his opponents to inform his decisions. Details are found here:
UltimateBet Cheating Scandal

These cheating scandals were completely independent of each other until Absolute Poker bought UltimateBet in late 2006.

Although this is online poker rather than online casino games, the principles are the same. Online gambling is simply software and the employees rigged the software so that they could collude with confederates to make large amounts of money from the gamblers using their site. I see no reason to believe that operators of casino sites behave more ethically than operators of online poker sites.

The only real barrier to this kind of behavior is regulation - but it can't be low-energy for-show regulation. It has to be vigorous regulation employing excellent systems and staff that can't be bought.
link to original post

Lol someone show me the regulations that say the casinos cant make a god mode account that can do that AS OF TODAY

It’s basically up to the company who provides the poker to self regulate and make sure that they don’t make god mode accounts

But they don’t have to

The funny thing about the hole card viewer is that all the owner had to do is tell the programmer to do it and he really didn’t need to tell or ask anyone if he could knowing damn well he shouldn’t have

I love this conversation because I know all of this and the people who I have been able to convince outside of this place I truly have an impact on to the point where they actually stop gambling and that’s what these casinos don’t want

They will have to murder me before I stop talking about it because I just want to stop people from giving them money as of this point

Quote: gordonm888

The above post by Axel is mindblowing. Best post of 2022, IMO


A good account of a online poker scandal, exposed in 2007, which involved the Absolute Poker site is found here

Absolute Poker Cheating Scandal

Basically, Absolute Poker created an administrative account that could log on as an observer in any game and that could see all the hole cards of all players. Employees would sit in the corporate office, use the administrative account and follow their associate around from table to table as he played in high-stakes cash games and notify him of all the hole cards of his opponents in every hand.

In cheating that began in about 2003, a separate poker site called UltimateBet employed the same technique so that employees could collaborate with a player and send him info on all the hole cards of his opponents to inform his decisions. Details are found here:
UltimateBet Cheating Scandal

These cheating scandals were completely independent of each other until Absolute Poker bought UltimateBet in late 2006.

Although this is online poker rather than online casino games, the principles are the same. Online gambling is simply software and the employees rigged the software so that they could collude with confederates to make large amounts of money from the gamblers using their site. I see no reason to believe that operators of casino sites behave more ethically than operators of online poker sites.

The only real barrier to this kind of behavior is regulation - but it can't be low-energy for-show regulation. It has to be vigorous regulation employing excellent systems and staff that can't be bought.
link to original post

Thank you, but to be honest, it was very subpar, it didn't take much time to find that stuff.

With just a few hours, I would have a post 10 times the length of that. MB would never see it... he seems to block guys like me. I'm -EV for Easy Vegas.

Again, I am absolutely not anti-online gambling or anti affiliates, I think you can get much better deals online than in B&M with better payouts. I see slots that are 97% payback online. You can get some great value if you do your research. Some affiliates like https://lcb.org/ do a good job of helping people who have issues with online casinos.

I have had a few different issues with online casinos and each time I contacted LCB my issues were quickly resolved. The last thing, an online casino would want is a bad reputation and to be blacklisted on their website.

Obviously, with over 10,000 online casinos, there are going to be many bad actors and problems that will never get resolved.

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these online casinos in foreign countries - they may not be breaking the law themselves - I'm unclear on that - but they entice and accept U.S. players in States where online gambling is not legal unless the State has approved it - and many States do not allow it at all - and the ones that have allowed it in the U.S. have only granted permission to American companies

isn't it logical to assume that if they are willing to accept and entice U.S. players into breaking the law that they would have no guilty conscience at all about rigging games_______?


.

Quote: lilredrooster

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these online casinos in foreign countries - they may not be breaking the law themselves - I'm unclear on that - but they entice and accept U.S. players in States where online gambling is not legal unless the State has approved it - and many States do not allow it at all - and the ones that have allowed it in the U.S. have only granted permission to American companies

isn't it logical to assume that if they are willing to accept and entice U.S. players into breaking the law that they would have no guilty conscience at all about rigging games_______?
link to original post

US B&M casinos would have no guilty conscience about taking your rent/food money. They don't care if seniors have to eat Alpo for the rest of their lives. Does it follow that they are rigging their games and cheating you?

Quote: Mental

Quote: lilredrooster

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these online casinos in foreign countries - they may not be breaking the law themselves - I'm unclear on that - but they entice and accept U.S. players in States where online gambling is not legal unless the State has approved it - and many States do not allow it at all - and the ones that have allowed it in the U.S. have only granted permission to American companies

isn't it logical to assume that if they are willing to accept and entice U.S. players into breaking the law that they would have no guilty conscience at all about rigging games_______?
link to original post

US B&M casinos would have no guilty conscience about taking your rent/food money. They don't care if seniors have to eat Alpo for the rest of their lives. Does it follow that they are rigging their games and cheating you?
link to original post

that is not the same as breaking the law -

you could say that so very many businesses wants to strip customers of as much money as they can without regard to the welfare of their customers

and more importantly - overseas casinos are outside the reach of retaliation from U.S. law enforcement and regulatory agencies


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I have documented proof of this in multiple formats from across multiple accounts. All the same occurrence and pattern of a probability less than 0.00001049% happening on FanDuel. I've sent my evidence to the Gaming Commission, Attorney Generals, MGCP, CPA and BBB.

I'm assuming that translates as "Better Business Bureau"?

Also the MGCP And the CPA.

I think we first need to distinguish between regulated and offshore casinos. Not just because of the regulations and oversight but because of the games and software. The regulated sites all use traditional game makers like IGT and Scientific Gaming. You don’t see those games on the offshores.

On the regulated games they state the RTP%. This number is usually exactly what you would expect it to be. A typical blackjack game is around 99.5% and a baccarat game will usually say 98.94%. So if the cards are dealt randomly this would be accurate. If you read the rules however the word random card usually never appears. They don’t say that every card has an equal chance. They say things like every hand is independent and bet size doesn’t matter or something like this games is dealt in accordance with fair gaming regulations. If you’re playing blackjack for instance and you hit, the next card comes out very quickly. There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly. I believe they are picked from a pre chosen string of cards when the hand was dealt.

I think in the regulated market you would have a hard time proving something is rigged. You can have all the hand history you want but all the regulators will tell you, if anything, is that the game is fair. If you lost a lot they will say that’s just variance.

If the US sites are rigged, then they must make an exception for me. I have been playing tens of millions of dollars a year through these sites each year and my results are very good relative to the published RTP figures. Most sites log each hand in great detail. If anyone has a large log of hands that they feel is hinky, then I and some others would be happy to do a statistical analysis. Most BJ logs give the rank and suit of every single card played. For every hand there are next cards that are good for you or bad for you. Are bad cards appearing more often than good cards? This will be obvious rather quickly.

I too have played well over $100M coin in. In the end I think the US sites are probably fair but I still see what I think are suspect things. But then again if you play that much you will see whatever pattern you want. I did however google a game recently that I have played extensively. There were some Reddit threads. Coincidentally the conclusions they talked about were the same as mine. Among them were a tilted tendency to always bust on 12 and the dealer to go on streaks of drawing to 21. Not 20 but 21. Lately I’ve noticed almost every double down against a low card they seem to draw to 21. I understand statistically a 21 is easier made starting with a low card. Oddly enough a hand I hated doing but do it anyways is doubling 11 v 10 and in this particular game I seem to get a 10 very often AND they seem to always have a 10 as well for 20.

Other things I’ve noticed are the banker almost always losing to the player. The other day I lost 40 banker vs 65 player. Another was 163B vs 208P. Awhile ago I posted one that was 359B vs 414P. Sure all these are within acceptable standard deviations but it’s still suspect when it’s the same game acting like that over and over. Another baccarat game I play frequently I have literally 20-30 pictures of betting banker and the player getting 5 9’s in a row. Not just winning but 5 or 6 9’s in a row. Of course I can’t ever remember winning with 5 9’s in a row.

Quote: Mental

Quote: lilredrooster

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these online casinos in foreign countries - they may not be breaking the law themselves - I'm unclear on that - but they entice and accept U.S. players in States where online gambling is not legal unless the State has approved it - and many States do not allow it at all - and the ones that have allowed it in the U.S. have only granted permission to American companies

isn't it logical to assume that if they are willing to accept and entice U.S. players into breaking the law that they would have no guilty conscience at all about rigging games_______?
link to original post

US B&M casinos would have no guilty conscience about taking your rent/food money. They don't care if seniors have to eat Alpo for the rest of their lives. Does it follow that they are rigging their games and cheating you?
link to original post

Casinos want people to gamble responsibly. Don't gamble money you can't afford to be without. How hard is that to understand?

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I cannot do statistical analysis on anecdotes.

Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: Mental

Quote: lilredrooster

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these online casinos in foreign countries - they may not be breaking the law themselves - I'm unclear on that - but they entice and accept U.S. players in States where online gambling is not legal unless the State has approved it - and many States do not allow it at all - and the ones that have allowed it in the U.S. have only granted permission to American companies

isn't it logical to assume that if they are willing to accept and entice U.S. players into breaking the law that they would have no guilty conscience at all about rigging games_______?
link to original post

US B&M casinos would have no guilty conscience about taking your rent/food money. They don't care if seniors have to eat Alpo for the rest of their lives. Does it follow that they are rigging their games and cheating you?
link to original post

Casinos want people to gamble responsibly. Don't gamble money you can't afford to be without. How hard is that to understand?
link to original post

Your being sarcastic right?

Little column A
Little column B

Quote: NikMoon86

I have documented proof of this in multiple formats from across multiple accounts. All the same occurrence and pattern of a probability less than 0.00001049% happening on FanDuel. I've sent my evidence to the Gaming Commission, Attorney Generals, MGCP, CPA and BBB.
link to original post

What is the nature of your evidence? What game? Does the situation come up often enough that I could reproduce it at small stakes?

Quote: Sandybestdog

I think we first need to distinguish between regulated and offshore casinos. Not just because of the regulations and oversight but because of the games and software. The regulated sites all use traditional game makers like IGT and Scientific Gaming. You don’t see those games on the offshores.

On the regulated games they state the RTP%. This number is usually exactly what you would expect it to be. A typical blackjack game is around 99.5% and a baccarat game will usually say 98.94%. So if the cards are dealt randomly this would be accurate. If you read the rules however the word random card usually never appears. They don’t say that every card has an equal chance. They say things like every hand is independent and bet size doesn’t matter or something like this games is dealt in accordance with fair gaming regulations. If you’re playing blackjack for instance and you hit, the next card comes out very quickly. There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly. I believe they are picked from a pre chosen string of cards when the hand was dealt.

I think in the regulated market you would have a hard time proving something is rigged. You can have all the hand history you want but all the regulators will tell you, if anything, is that the game is fair. If you lost a lot they will say that’s just variance.
link to original post

I am currently out of state, but I pinged the gaming site back home. Some of the pings came back within 0.008 seconds. A good pRNG algorithm would take a few nanoseconds at most to deal the next random card. There is some security protocol processing that might take a microsecond. It should be possible for the server within your state to return the next random card to you within 0.01 seconds. I think anything under 0.2 seconds would qualify as very quickly. Your finger would probably still be on the mouse button when the result got back. So there is a way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Sandybestdog

I think we first need to distinguish between regulated and offshore casinos. Not just because of the regulations and oversight but because of the games and software. The regulated sites all use traditional game makers like IGT and Scientific Gaming. You don’t see those games on the offshores.

On the regulated games they state the RTP%. This number is usually exactly what you would expect it to be. A typical blackjack game is around 99.5% and a baccarat game will usually say 98.94%. So if the cards are dealt randomly this would be accurate. If you read the rules however the word random card usually never appears. They don’t say that every card has an equal chance. They say things like every hand is independent and bet size doesn’t matter or something like this games is dealt in accordance with fair gaming regulations. If you’re playing blackjack for instance and you hit, the next card comes out very quickly. There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly. I believe they are picked from a pre chosen string of cards when the hand was dealt.

I think in the regulated market you would have a hard time proving something is rigged. You can have all the hand history you want but all the regulators will tell you, if anything, is that the game is fair. If you lost a lot they will say that’s just variance.
link to original post

I am currently out of state, but I pinged the gaming site back home. Some of the pings came back within 0.008 seconds. A good pRNG algorithm would take a few nanoseconds at most to deal the next random card. There is some security protocol processing that might take a microsecond. It should be possible for the server within your state to return the next random card to you within 0.01 seconds. I think anything under 0.2 seconds would qualify as very quickly. Your finger would probably still be on the mouse button when the result got back. So there is a way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly.
link to original post

That result could be coming from the server that your state is supposed to serve the result from but its also possible the server is fetching that number from another more far away server... you know that though

Quote: heatmap

Quote: Mental

Quote: Sandybestdog

I think we first need to distinguish between regulated and offshore casinos. Not just because of the regulations and oversight but because of the games and software. The regulated sites all use traditional game makers like IGT and Scientific Gaming. You don’t see those games on the offshores.

On the regulated games they state the RTP%. This number is usually exactly what you would expect it to be. A typical blackjack game is around 99.5% and a baccarat game will usually say 98.94%. So if the cards are dealt randomly this would be accurate. If you read the rules however the word random card usually never appears. They don’t say that every card has an equal chance. They say things like every hand is independent and bet size doesn’t matter or something like this games is dealt in accordance with fair gaming regulations. If you’re playing blackjack for instance and you hit, the next card comes out very quickly. There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly. I believe they are picked from a pre chosen string of cards when the hand was dealt.

I think in the regulated market you would have a hard time proving something is rigged. You can have all the hand history you want but all the regulators will tell you, if anything, is that the game is fair. If you lost a lot they will say that’s just variance.
link to original post

I am currently out of state, but I pinged the gaming site back home. Some of the pings came back within 0.008 seconds. A good pRNG algorithm would take a few nanoseconds at most to deal the next random card. There is some security protocol processing that might take a microsecond. It should be possible for the server within your state to return the next random card to you within 0.01 seconds. I think anything under 0.2 seconds would qualify as very quickly. Your finger would probably still be on the mouse button when the result got back. So there is a way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly.
link to original post

That result could be coming from the server that your state is supposed to serve the result from but its also possible the server is fetching that number from another more far away server... you know that though
link to original post

The question at hand is whether a fast response time is proof of something hinky. Postulating that something could slow down the server response has no bearing on the question.

According to a internet test website, a round trip ping from Austin to Tokyo takes 0.145 sec. By law, the server has to be physically in my home state, but if the server was in freaking Tokyo, I still might see the card dealt within 0.20 seconds. The hit card could still appear almost instantaneous with you hitting the button.

Quote: Mental

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I cannot do statistical analysis on anecdotes.
link to original post

Post of the week.


I’m going to use that in the future.

‘THE PLURAL OF ANECDOTE IS NOT DATA’.

Doesn't seem true at all. I've heard of plenty of players putting in paltry amounts and winning substantial amounts back. Sure, the chances of that happening to you are slim but that doesn't mean it can't happen. In my own experience I barely spend anything in online casinos, yet hit a pretty big win (comparatively) in 12 spins on a slot. I know a guy who put in 20 dollars, won a few times so upped his bet and ended up winning about 30K. Another guy, similar situation - started off with 20 bucks, won a couple of times - re-bet and pulled out 5K. Also, I don't understand why the Quora post implies that every single player is bound to a wager. You're only obliged to a play through if you're using bonus money.

This is not to say there might not be sites you can't trust, but any "reputable" site would quickly be exposed if they rigged the betting. More likely it's just like casinos have always been, "the house always wins" - especially if you pump those winnings straight back into the casino.

If you're using extremely dodgy sites with no reputation, I guess expect anything. If your'e on one of the better ones and you're worried about woulda-shoulda-coulda's like "god mode" accounts, then I guess you might as well stop gambling altogether. Who's to say, using that kind of thinking, that every gambling game isn't rigged somehow?

Personally I think the more likely "scam" is players being given free or bonus money to bet with and then selectively showing their biggest wins to their audiences. That in and of itself is kinda dishonest and portrays a potentially false view of an average player's chances, but you'd have to be silly not to consider that before betting yourself. There's no way guys can sit there pulling on slots at $1 million a spin if they're not getting comp'd somehow.

I’m not sure where the servers are. There is a particular IGT blackjack game I play. I like it cause it’s fast. I’ve never timed myself but I bet I could play 20 hands a minute if I tried and had a solid internet connection. I play 99% on my phone. I do notice if I’m in a poor cell area it might deal the initial cards really fast and then if I double there can be a couple second delay. This would be where reception is really bad otherwise the next card is near instant. Also when I stand on my cards the dealer completes their hand nearly instantaneously. Even if it’s 6 cards they take they all come out in a quarter second and the hand is graded. This leads me to believe it’s a pre chosen string of cards, at least for the dealer.

I played about 500 hands on this game today. I didn’t count but at least a dozen times in that short sample I doubled against a low card and they drew to 21. I broke even anyways so I guess I can’t complain.

I also played about 300 hands of baccarat. There were 2 instances of the player getting a 9 5x in a row. I guess it’s about a 10% chance of getting a 9 on the first 2 cards. I’m not sure the odds if you include a third card. If it doubles the chance that’s still 20% 5x in a row. Which is something like 3000 to 1. I don’t know my point in all this is other than to say almost every time I play it seems things that are thousands to one always seem to be happening. I’ve had great winning streaks too but I can’t seem to remember anything weird happening with those.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Sandybestdog

...There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly....
link to original post

I am currently out of state, but I pinged the gaming site back home. Some of the pings came back within 0.008 seconds. A good pRNG algorithm would take a few nanoseconds at most to deal the next random card. There is some security protocol processing that might take a microsecond. It should be possible for the server within your state to return the next random card to you within 0.01 seconds. I think anything under 0.2 seconds would qualify as very quickly. Your finger would probably still be on the mouse button when the result got back. So there is a way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly.
link to original post

You can determine whether it's hitting the server by looking at the network traffic, or even just using a proxy that can introduce a delay to simulate a slow connection. I'm sure you also know this; just pointing it out for the previous poster.

“This leads me to believe it’s a pre chosen string of cards, at least for the dealer.”

If it’s not dealt live then it probably is. It’ll be RNG based on decks of cards with an equal probability of drawing one of the remaining cards out of the shoe. That doesn’t mean it’s cheating you though, it’s just simulating a card draw. When a deck of cards is lying in a shoe the order is “predetermined,” by the shuffle. You don’t know what order its determined in and neither does the dealer. Assuming you don’t want to factor in human error and aren’t worried about whether or not that’s a factor in play, RNG would be basically the same as playing against a real deck in practical terms.

Quote: TaxrBux

Quote: Mental

Quote: Sandybestdog

...There is no way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly....
link to original post

I am currently out of state, but I pinged the gaming site back home. Some of the pings came back within 0.008 seconds. A good pRNG algorithm would take a few nanoseconds at most to deal the next random card. There is some security protocol processing that might take a microsecond. It should be possible for the server within your state to return the next random card to you within 0.01 seconds. I think anything under 0.2 seconds would qualify as very quickly. Your finger would probably still be on the mouse button when the result got back. So there is a way the game could communicate with the server to choose a random card and deal it to you that quickly.
link to original post

You can determine whether it's hitting the server by looking at the network traffic, or even just using a proxy that can introduce a delay to simulate a slow connection. I'm sure you also know this; just pointing it out for the previous poster.
link to original post

You can’t determine if the server you are looking at is actually looking at another server. This is because you are not on their network and can not analyze that servers traffic. RNG is not something to be effed with so it’s very possible that most of the casinos use a service - aka - a different server to generate their numbers.
Just like any pipe in plumbing the flow rate is dependent upon the amount of water flowing through and can still become slower based on the amount of requests the server is serving.

Quote: TaxrBux

You can determine whether it's hitting the server by looking at the network traffic, or even just using a proxy that can introduce a delay to simulate a slow connection. I'm sure you also know this; just pointing it out for the previous poster.
link to original post

Good point! I am out of state, but I can try that when I am back home.

I assume that the server does not send data representing the sequence of future cards to the client software. Even if they use strong encryption, that encrypted data would be visible as it passes over the network, and then it would be visible in the data space of the client process. There is nothing the gambling site can do to prevent the player from seeing the content of the packets or the data space on their client machine. Since a player does not have to make a decision for days while playing online card games, there is plenty of time for the player to decrypt the card sequence. I am not an expert of encryption, but 56-bit DES encryption would not be sufficient to protect the data from being cracked before the player makes his decision.

Once the player stands or busts, there is no reason that the server cannot send the client the entire sequence of dealer cards. The player can no longer take advantage of this information. The client software can just present the dealer cards as fast or as slow as the programmer chose to sequence the graphics.

I saw a repeated malfunction of an online slot today. I needed to play off a bonus. I chose to do this with 10 spins on an Everi 'Cash Machine' slot at $10 per spin. I counted out 10 spins and then checked my bonus status. The bonus page showed that I was only 60% done. I went to the transaction log and saw that I was only debited for 6 spins. I had noticed that some of the spins took a long time for the reels to settle. Apparently four of those spins resulted in 'no wager'. There was nothing whatsoever to indicate this on the game screen. I counted out four more spins and two of these took a long time to settle. The log showed only two debits and one win for these four spins. The bonus screen showed me as 80% done. This is consistent with two of the four spins being scored as 'no wager'. I did another spin and it was another 'no wager'. It took me three more spins to get two more wagers that counted towards my coin in requirement. All of my winning plays were logged properly, so I am not saying that I was cheated. The 'no wager' spins always resulted in a losing combination.

I have never considered Everi to be a trustworthy company. I hope IGT can fix their many flaws. I do a lot of auto-play to accomplish a specific amount of coin in. I am used to having every spin count towards my coin in. It is really disconcerting to think that Everi games can silently fail.

How I miss auto play. Here in Ontario Canada when they legalized online gambling they made online casinos remove the auto play button. So you either have to sit there and keep hitting the spin button or you can download software that will do the spins for you. However this is illegal and you will be banned if caught. I think the UK has also removed the auto play. Life was so much simpler in the "old days"

Quote: vegas

How I miss auto play. Here in Ontario Canada when they legalized online gambling they made online casinos remove the auto play button. So you either have to sit there and keep hitting the spin button or you can download software that will do the spins for you. However this is illegal and you will be banned if caught. I think the UK has also removed the auto play. Life was so much simpler in the "old days"
link to original post

Thanks for the interesting info from Canada. It used to be common in my state to be able to select 1000 games in auto-play mode. Now, I do not know of any game that allows more than 100 auto-play games.

I do not know if this is a regulatory requirement in my state or whether the game manufacturers made the change so they met regulatory requirements in a different jurisdiction. The difference is not that big because many games will stop after a bonus round and these bonuses usually come along about every 100 spins. I can usually hear the start of a bonus round even when the game window is totally obscured by other windows. I have also trained myself to hear when a game stops playing so I can restart auto-play ASAP. This is not difficult when I am only playing one site, but I often am playing games at multiple sites simultaneously.

I roll my own auto-play bot. However, I cannot use common tools like AHK because some sites ban them. The player location check software will scan the process table and the registry. If the PLC finds AHK (or other banned software) installed or running, geolocation will fail and I will not be able to play.

I have to disagree. Being unlucky doesn't mean that games are rigged. The house has an edge in every game, but the same is true for all land-based casino games.