Thread Rating:

Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1228
  • Posts: 20402
January 10th, 2013 at 10:01:21 AM permalink
I have updated my blacklist entry, pointing the finger at Finsoft, Spielo, and Realistic Games.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Canyonero
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 509
January 10th, 2013 at 10:18:38 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I have updated my blacklist entry, pointing the finger at Finsoft, Spielo, and Realistic Games.



Hmm, it was Betfred (among others I suppose) however who offered this game to players. So you are going after the gun manufacturer but not the shooter.

Here's a German word of the day: Beisshemmung. It means bite inhibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_inhibition), but in German it is also used when a person is reluctant to go after somebody else when they should (in whatever way).

Sorry if I am missing something about your blacklist policy.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1228
  • Posts: 20402
January 10th, 2013 at 1:23:17 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Hmm, it was Betfred (among others I suppose) however who offered this game to players. So you are going after the gun manufacturer but not the shooter.



We don't know that Bedfred knew the game was rigged. It deserves to be asked why they would put in a game with an alleged 100% return, or rigged one. However, they should get points for removing the game, refunding players, and an honest confession at CasinoMeister.

I hate to say it, but in the world of Internet gambling, not that many people actually understand gambling. They might not have just accepted a whole package of games without asking questions.

Quote:

Here's a German word of the day: Beisshemmung. It means bite inhibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_inhibition), but in German it is also used when a person is reluctant to go after somebody else when they should (in whatever way).



German has such wunderbar words like this. I wonder if it came up at the Nuremberg Trials.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
MangoJ
MangoJ
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 905
January 10th, 2013 at 2:27:54 PM permalink
I lived in Germany for over 30 years, and this word never came to me in any other context than the literal one. Although you are basically free to form any word composed of more simpler words, and give them a special meaning beyond the original one - noone would understand you (or more extreme find you somehow retarded).
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1882
January 10th, 2013 at 3:26:37 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

We don't know that Bedfred knew the game was rigged.

OK.
50% chance they knew, maybe, just maybe,
because they would profit from it in a very competitive market,
too many online casinos and not enough players because of the current US rules. Maybe.
50% chance they did not have a clue and did not know.

Quote: Wizard

It deserves to be asked why they would put in a game with an alleged 100% return, or rigged one.

Are not 100% return games around?
And one is charged a withdraw fee when do you win and want your money. They get their edge.

They may be dumb and were caught, maybe, but IMO they are not stupid.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 262
  • Posts: 13893
January 10th, 2013 at 3:42:05 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I don't know much about this, but since these companies seem to be located and licensed in real countries with real legal systems, isn't there some legal recourse here? ie, sue the assholes?

Once you sue you begin to find out just how "real" the companies and the judicial systems are.

Wade through a bunch of entities without any money to find who is really behind the casino and find that the bank accounts are in some friendly place such as the Cayman Islands. Deal with people who claim ignorance of everything and point only to the wrong doing of others. Then you have to deal with Chinese Judges and the Chinese Sardine Can. (Empty sardine can filled with dirt, lid crimped back on ... sold to a merchant ... famine deepens, prices rice ... eventually the fiftieth merchant opens the can and sues, but is told Those were sardines for selling, not sardines for eating. No Recovery!). The software consultants disappear, gambling certificates from some commission are a rubber stamp in the drawer of the casino owner.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
January 10th, 2013 at 5:40:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

We don't know that Bedfred knew the game was rigged.



I don't think that this is really relevant. Either way, they are responsible.
Jufo81
Jufo81
Joined: May 23, 2010
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 344
January 10th, 2013 at 11:23:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

We don't know that Bedfred knew the game was rigged. It deserves to be asked why they would put in a game with an alleged 100% return, or rigged one. However, they should get points for removing the game, refunding players, and an honest confession at CasinoMeister.

I hate to say it, but in the world of Internet gambling, not that many people actually understand gambling. They might not have just accepted a whole package of games without asking questions.



Betfred's "confession" was far from honest. If you read the Betfred rep's responses in the Casinomeister thread, he didn't admit to any problem with the game's implementation itself, only that the game's help-file incorrectly stated a 100% payout on a game running at a 96% setting. Apart from the help-file "mistake" they probably don't see anything wrong with how the game was designed.

A bookie as high-reputation and large as Betfred should do due diligence to verify that every product they put on their site complies with standards of fair gaming. They completely failed to do that so they should also face the consequences. If there are no other consequences for the operator to run gaffed games other than having to pull them and saying "sorry", it will remain extremely profitable for them to keep having these kinds of games and hope they get caught only on some low percentage of them.
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
January 11th, 2013 at 1:15:21 AM permalink
Of course the math specialists here are all over rigged games when presented with documented proof.

What amazes me when an online casino game is caught cheating, is the balls they have to run that risk of getting caught in the first place on the easy to detect games they usually are being caught on. These are games that donít require hundreds of thousands of documented plays before an opinion could be accurate. One could only imagine what is actually being done with these types of games that virtually are undetectable.

The irresistible greed nerve is running rampart within online gambling operators and their software providers, simply because it can with no regulation and no enforcement. Online gambling is being run today similar in many ways if not worse then how Vegas was in its early mob controlled days.

I personally became convinced that table games and video poker games offered unregulated online are designed to mimic a real game, and were designed clever enough that regardless what is brought forward as evidence of foul play with these types of games is usually never efficient. In addition they always will have the cushion of stating that perfect play is required to achieve proper EV to further cast doubts. The opportunity's for foul play are endless when a casino game with real money involved is presented virtually through a program without confirmed regulation oversight.

A game that consistently over years falls slightly lower then the expected negative EV would equate to billions of stolen dollars. Not that they wouldnít have eventually gotten these stolen funds if the players kept playing, but it sure as hell expedites their bottom line.

With everything that happened already and what might happen in the future with online gaming (USA regulated games) their cash cows life expectancy is always uncertain, making them desperate to grab all they could while they still can. Personally, I think online gaming after the UIGEA was passed went into a tailspin due to uncertainty. Shortly after the UIGEA was passed the poker scandals were reveled, along with everything the DOJ's actions exposed {which inadvertently exposed even more internal operator scams unknown to the players} and now even more exposed rigged casino games. I'm not even gonna touch on all the players that won having their winnings stolen back one way or another.

Besides, after seeing this type of fraud with online casinos and poker rooms, today we still know nothing is any safer. Everyone should also realize that the proven fraudsters caught in the past suffered no legal consequences from any of the countries they operate and pretend to be regulated out of. The poker rooms that reimbursed players during their scandals had to make a decision. Either close the doors and screw everyone that was screwed, or reimburse the players (that's if they even still had their funds) so they could keep operating.

The worse scenario for a cheating software provider and operator would be having to re-brand, since they can with no regulation oversight.

This incident will have the same results all the others did in the past. The casinos using the rigged software didnít know it was rigged, then apologize, swear how honest and reputable they are, (with the help of affiliates who also want your money) remove the rigged game and sometimes the providers, telling us they reimbursed all players that ever played the game. (who ever actually saw proof of this?) Then they could even make certain the software they do use can't expose a similar incident. After all with no regulation or enforcement in place these operators and programmers do get to learn from their mistakes and keep operating.

Everyone by now should also realize that "yes" online operators and software providers are willing to risk everything for a quicker buck. But then again maybe someone could tell me what it is they actually are risking if caught? The "Virtual" brand is a perfect example of this point, who still today are going stronger then ever with sixteen different casinos, even after 15 years of blacklisting by many.

As long as all these affiliates continue to make tons of money, this nonsense will never end. Affiliates make money by driving you to the casinos that pay them the most for your business, not the casinos that pay you the most for your business.

This is all just my opinion, and with no online gaming regulation in place that matters, no one can possibly prove I'm wrong. Usually the biggest arguments on this subject come from compulsive gamblers that can't resist the temptations of online gaming and want to convince themselves and others that their getting a fair game, and of cause affiliates who will go to their death defending their incomes.

Unfortunately, the few present good operators today must fall under the same umbrella, since they still have the same options to execute foul play at will.

If anyone wants to believe that forum owners (all affiliates) are running watch dog web sites simply because they want you to be safe while gambling at an online casino that's operating with no fear of any regulation enforcement: then online gaming is for you.

Online gambling as it still stands today, will eventually be exposed as one of the biggest scams of all time.
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
January 11th, 2013 at 1:23:38 AM permalink
Looks like the predictable response for damage control is about to begin. (as I stated in previous post) NordicBet the first casino to come forward and post their disclaimer of any wrongdoing, wasn't a result of any regulation enforcement or internal investigation by regulators taking place. In fact they had to do their own internal investigation to confirm the issue. (now that's comforting) Wonder if these are the same people checking in the software prior to launch, and are the same ones doing the monthly audits.

They did this trying to make you believe their operation was just as much a victim as the players. Besides, no one ever enforced that casino owners had to confirm what they were offering to customers was actually authentic. It now becomes obvious that their gaming software's monthly, quarterly, and annual audits prior to this incident couldn't have been authentic either.

I still can't comprehend how casinos the affiliates and watchdogs that promote them are jumping through hoops to pass the blame solely on the software provider. These are some of the biggest online gaming operators that exist today caught pick pocketing customers wallets. {One could only suspect what they would be saying if these were small outfits not on their recommended money-tree list.}

Betfred, where this rigged game was found made a statement in this thread at casinomeister (linked below) confirming this game that's suppose to mirror a live card game and same probabilities actually don't, and had no problem with it being a slot machine dressed in card games clothing with predetermined outcomes.

Since all online gaming software has allegedly been periodically tested all along, (just read all their websites) how deep does this fraud actually go? This is an annual multi-billion dollar business with plenty of deep pockets.

Also notice who the first thank you for this post below was given by. The famous watchdog himself. The same guy that changed the original title of the thread from "Betfred rigged game" to "software name rigged game", immediately getting Betfred out of the headlines.

I find it troubling after reading the only possible response on the table for NordicBet, of course washing their hands of any wrongdoing, the actual responses that follow after this post. These people have to be kidding me. I donít care how the software got there; NordicBet and the others (yet to respond) were caught using it.

Are people other then the cult followers at the casinomeister site, (the only long term members allowed to remain there) really this foolish?

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-rigged-rogue-software-30.html#post533400

  • Jump to: