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4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
January 26th, 2013 at 10:46:54 AM permalink
In regard to this issue being played out at Casinomeister involving programmed cheating software being used at online casinos, I thought it would be easier for anyone who might be interested in what really is taking place, and might want to read what I thought were the most telling posts, without having to read through 650 posts.

There was a great deal of great posts by many other forum members but below summarizes in detail the chain of events, which by the way is not over yet.


Dec. 27, 2012
Katie91 joins Casinomeister and posts documented play logs of two games she played. Real Deal and Hi-Lo Gambler. Claims her brother is a mathematician and suspects rigged software. She states here “I have taken a screen recording of the entire play log directly from the website in case Betfred attempt to lock the account and deny these results are accurate.” Also requests here “I would invite others to analyze these results to confirm that these games are not fair and for Betfred to offer their logs for these two games to a third-party to analyze.” Provides URL’s to game logs.

Dec. 31, 2012
Eliot Jacobson president of Jacobson Gaming, analyzes play logs and reports how the tests were performed and his conclusion that the games are in fact rigged. Read: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-4.html#post530810

Jan. 01, 2013
Bedfred rep joins thread and makes this statement. Read: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-5.html#post530976

Jan. 01, 2013
Eliot Jacobson provides additional analyzes. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-6.html#post531027

Jan. 03, 2013
Eliot posts lack of communication and or response: Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-7.html#post531409

Jan. 04, 2013
Bedfred rep makes statement attempting to explain accusations. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-8.html#post531537

Jan. 04, 2013
Eliot Jacobson responds to Betfred’s lackadaisical explanation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-8.html#post531552

Jan. 04, 2013
Eliot Jacobson details further. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-9.html#post531580

Forum member “thelawnet” posts evidence that free play plays differently then real play. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-13.html#post531776

Jan. 05, 2013
Katie91 “opening poster” requests additional 3 games to be analyzed she suspects also are cheating. Odd request since it indicates she knows more then first exposed. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531786

Jan. 05, 2013
Forum member “thelawnet” confirms additional games mentioned by Katie91 for review are in fact rigged. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531788

Jan. 05, 2013
Katie91 directs post to Bedfred asking why so many games are rigged. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-14.html#post531790

Jan. 06, 2013
Casinomeister makes first post and joins thread. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-15.html#post531936

Jan. 06, 2013
Eliot Jacobson expresses disgust with no response and drops out of investigation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-15.html#post532011

Jan. 07, 2013
Casinomeister changes title of thread. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-20.html#post532216

Jan. 07, 2013
NodicBet joins thread stating internal investigation being preformed. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-20.html#post532218

Jan. 07, 2013
Betfred sticks their own foot up their ass with this explanation. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532256

Jan. 07, 2013
Forum member “thelawnet” is all over Betfred’s response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532263

Jan. 07, 2013
Eliot Jacobson puts Betfred in their place after absurd response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-21.html#post532267

Jan. 07, 2013
Bet365 contacts casinomeister and reports internal investigation in progress. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-22.html#post532300

Jan. 08, 2013
Betvictor rep. distances their casino from software provider. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-23.html#post532392

Jan. 08, 2013
Casinomeister posts UKGC’s response to issue. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-24.html#post532508

Jan. 10, 2013
Casinomeister attempts to clear Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-28.html#post532955

Jan 10, 2013
Eliot Jacobson corrects Casinomeister’s stupid attempt to clear Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-28.html#post533005

Jan. 11, 2013
Casinomeister posts Bet365’s full response. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-29.html#post533232

Jan 11, 2013
Eliot Jacobson requests additional information from Bet365. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-29.html#post533258

Jan 12, 2013
NordicBet confirms faulty software, reimburses all players, and removes all games from Finsoft. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-30.html#post533400

Jan. 14, 2013
Casinomeister thanks everyone for their efforts, declares no wrongdoing on the part of Betfred, Bet365, or NordicBet, puts them back on accredited list, with the hopes of everything said being accepted and hopefully forgotten about. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-33.html#post533815

Jan. 14, 2013
Casinomeister’s further attempt to whitewash issue and sweep under carpet. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-34.html#post533857

Jan 15, 2013
Casinomeister attempts further whitewash. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-37.html#post534117

Jan. 17, 2013
Katie91 (opening poster) declared reimbursement received from Betfred, along with thank you letter from Betfred for bringing the issue to their attention. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-42.html#post534666

Jan. 18, 2013
Forum member “pokeraddict” confirms Nevada G.C.B. was notified of thread since Lotttomatica Software Company, the parent company of all software providers named throughout the thread is suppose to go up against the board for approval of additional gaming software license. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-44.html#post534758

Jan. 23, 2013
After 5 days of over 100 posts looking for more answers and not satisfied with any of the explanations, Casinomeister reveals investigation is being done by the GRA. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-54.html#post536085

Jan. 23, 2013
ALERT-ALERT (cover-up begins) The GRA has notified Casinomeister of some breaking news. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536242

Jan. 23 2013
"binary" Executive at Galewind Software Corp. a highly reputable software provider smells a cover-up coming. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536257

Jan 23, 2013
Casinomeister temporarily locks thread pending further information. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536268

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister reopens thread with breaking news. The opening poster is a fraud! Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536282

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister is waiting for statement from opening poster. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-56.html#post536292

Jan 24, 2013
Not sure what Casinomeister is saying here. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-57.html#post536304

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister explains to forum member, that if you suspect you’re being cheated, go to the people cheating you and ask them if they are. If they were they’ll give you your money back. No need to make the issue public using his forum. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-57.html#post536313

Jan. 24, 2013
Cover up thickens as opening poster is officially silenced. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-59.html#post536374

Jan. 24, 2013
Forum member “Balthazar” expresses concerns about Casinomeister’s actions. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-60.html#post536426

Jan. 24, 2013
Casinomeister responds allegedly showing concern still about software. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-60.html#post536431


Jan. 24, 2013
Forum members start pointing out suspicious chain of events. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-61.html#post536477

Jan. 24, 2013
Additional suspicions from "binary" Executive at Galewind Software Corp. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-61.html#post536484

Jan. 25, 2013
Casinomeister can no longer take the badgering from posters suspecting an obvious cover-up and decides to close the thread till further information is available. Read:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue-65.html#post536653


Personally, I’m convinced the opening post was an insider and aware of what was going on, and for whatever reason tried to expose them under his sisters name.
Caruso
Caruso
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 74
January 26th, 2013 at 11:11:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Me too. I welcome them here.



Thank you Mike, I consider myself welcomed. :-)
Caruso
Caruso
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 74
January 26th, 2013 at 11:18:31 AM permalink
Quote: Jufo81

Does anyone here have contacts to journalists in UK newspapers? What Betfred deserves now is that this issue of cheating makes mass media in UK.




As I said at BB, I gave The Mail a shot, and gave up when all they'd put me through to was an answerphone. I also tried to find contact info for a Guardian blogger who wrote an article about the high street FOBTs and what-not, but no luck there either. How you cold-contact journalists you don't already know, I have no idea.

I'd suggest people don't go off with half-cocked accounts that'll have professional writers rolling their eyes, keep it polite and forensically factual. That is, assuming you have better luck connecting with anyone than I did.
jon
jon
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 128
January 26th, 2013 at 11:22:26 AM permalink
Is this the same Spielo that is the large slot machine manufacturer? If so, they certainly have deep pockets. I'd like to know more about their relationship to the gaffed game code and I'd like to ponder if there is any potential lawsuit or class action against them.
thelawnet
thelawnet
Joined: Apr 15, 2011
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 9
January 26th, 2013 at 11:47:13 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


I find it a stretch to imply the player falsified a log file of about 20,000 games. One thing I do give the other side is that they at least admitted the game was gaffed. As far as I know, nobody has denied the logs posted at CasinoMeister were genuine.



It is clear that the logs are genuine.

In particular, the player states

Red: 9282, Black: 10074.

This is 0.4795 chance of getting Red (which should have been a 50/50 outcome).

Given that the Red bet paid 2x, this represents a payout of 95.9% +- whatever the appropriate margin of error is for a sample of this size.

The Betfred rep later states:

"On developing the game, SPEILO G2 developed two version: fixed odds and fixed price. The latter was in operation at Betfred. Fixed price meant that randomness could be introduced via a certified (GLI and TST approved) RNG and an RTP was introduced. In this case, at 96% RTP."

The figures presented by the OP are consistent with an RTP of 96%.

While the player may have had an interest in getting his losses refunded, and therefore in falsifying logfiles, there was no reason for him to choose 96%, as opposed to 94%, 92% or whatever. The casino admits outright that the game was set to 96% by a 'fixed price' mechanism.

So quite apart from the improbability of the logs being falsified, the fact that the casinos later stated RTP exactly matches those from the player's logs is beyond a coincidence.

Also, while it's just about possible that you might have some kind of funky arcade game where 3 Aces pays 100, and 3 9s only 2x, and the chances of getting an Ace is less than the chance of a 9, in this case it is necessary not only that the chance of red was less than the chance of black (which is bad, but not cheating given appropriate explanation in the helpfiile), but also that if you switched from a red bet to black, the chances would reverse (otherwise the casino would lose all its money, because players would quickly spot that the odds of black were > 0.5, and would bet exclusively on black, ignoring the red bet - so the game clearly was adaptive).

In other words, the chance of any given outcome changes depending on whether you have bet on it or not!

There is no helpfile that can explain away cheating of this manner, nor any form of player misrepresentation that can be said to be the cause of it.
Canyonero
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 509
January 26th, 2013 at 12:00:50 PM permalink
Quote: 4ofaKind

In regard to this issue being played out at Casinomeister involving programmed cheating software being used at online casinos, I thought it would be easier for anyone who might be interested in what really is taking place, and might want to read what I thought were the most telling posts, without having to read through 650 posts.



4ofaKind, thanks a lot for your effort. Great resource to get up to date for anyone interested.
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
January 26th, 2013 at 12:40:33 PM permalink
You think it could be useful in an attempt to solicit and possibly gain interest by one of the outside media resources with a link here?

Maybe they could get a real investigation started on this before everything is wiped clean. I suppose it may already be to late, since they already had a month to cover a lot of ground.

Don't forget one thing, this is a multi-billion dollar annual business with possession of endless resources. Leaving a bunch of pissed off forum members behind in disgust, is really a small price to pay based on what has been exposed. Maybe a small tweak in their next quarters financial report.

Without outside help it will be business as usual in a short time.
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 2037
January 26th, 2013 at 1:34:33 PM permalink
Quote: 4ofaKind

Without outside help it will be business as usual in a short time

Thank you for your extraordinary summary of the posts on this topic at Casinomeister. It may be worthwhile for someone to archive the thread in case it is deleted there. I contacted the media about 2 weeks ago and it is my understanding that a story is being written that will be on the AP wire. But the investigation is obviously complex and no good journalist would rush this one.
Visit my YouTube Channel: @AdvancedAdvantagePlay
Canyonero
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 509
January 26th, 2013 at 1:35:43 PM permalink
I think the problem is that internet casino style gambling is still a niche that is perceived as the domain of a small number of degenerate problem gamblers sitting at home in their underwear and losing their social security check. The shady online casino based in some banana republic is ripping them off? What else is news?

If it were related to sports betting, which is mainstream in the UK, the media would be all over this already...
ChopleyIOM
ChopleyIOM
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 5
January 26th, 2013 at 3:49:55 PM permalink
Hi there chaps, was invited over here by a member at CM.

I've probably signed my death warrant over there so hope you don't mind if I bed in here :)


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