Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
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October 1st, 2022 at 3:38:15 PM permalink
The beauty of online gaming is that you can retrieve every single bet from the transaction log and save it on your own computer. For BJ, most sites log a split or double as a separate bet. Many sites offer the ability to replay a hand or a slot game.

My online results have been fabulous, partly because I have run really good when the big bets go out. However, I would definitely analyze the logs if I ever had any qualms about any particular operator or game.

There is not one bit of data supporting the original claim or EB's claim. That is enough for me to dismiss these claims as noise that would just distract me from the task at hand..
Dieter
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Dieter
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October 1st, 2022 at 5:45:34 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

It all depends on what you mean by rigged. If a computer run game is registered as a slot machine and a lot of them are then they can do anything they want to make sure they get their percentage out of the game. All totally legal and they do not have to disclose it to the public.
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[citation needed]
May the cards fall in your favor.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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October 2nd, 2022 at 9:29:23 AM permalink
Quote: Mental



There is not one bit of data supporting the original claim .

link to original post




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I don't know why you would post this right after Axel's post which included this:

"After researching the casino software it lead me back to WOO where The Wizard deemed their software to be rigged."

I believe Axel is a trustworthy member - and Wizard is a trustworthy leader - who would surely rebut what Axel said if for any reason he believed it not to be accurate

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Quote: Mental



My online results have been fabulous, partly because I have run really good when the big bets go outhand..

link to original post



that is confirmation bias - you haven't experienced even one one hundredth of one percent of what is avalable online


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"believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" - Edgar Allan Poe
Mental
Mental
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October 2nd, 2022 at 10:28:48 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: Mental



There is not one bit of data supporting the original claim .

link to original post




.
I don't know why you would post this right after Axel's post which included this:

"After researching the casino software it lead me back to WOO where The Wizard deemed their software to be rigged."]



I am clearly not referring to Axel's post.

The original claim is "THESE GAMING SITES THAT ARE ON THE INTERNET ARE ALL - EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM - %100 RIGGED"

Even a dozen proven cases of rigging over the history of online gaming does not support the original claim (the first post in this thread).

EB's subsequent claim that " If a computer run game is registered as a slot machine and a lot of them are then they can do anything they want to make sure they get their percentage out of the game. All totally legal and they do not have to disclose it to the public." seems to be a confusion about Class II slot machines. Certainly, it is not legal to replace Class III games with Class II games. The public should know when they enter a VLT parlor. It is no secret.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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October 2nd, 2022 at 10:34:04 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: Mental



There is not one bit of data supporting the original claim .

link to original post




.
I don't know why you would post this right after Axel's post which included this:

"After researching the casino software it lead me back to WOO where The Wizard deemed their software to be rigged."]



I am clearly not referring to Axel's post.

The original claim is "THESE GAMING SITES THAT ARE ON THE INTERNET ARE ALL - EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM - %100 RIGGED"

link to original post




he clearly exaggerated in that statement - that doesn't mean his entire post is BS

I never mentioned EB's claim -

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"believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" - Edgar Allan Poe
Dieter
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Dieter
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October 2nd, 2022 at 10:54:46 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Certainly, it is not legal to replace Class III games with Class II games. The public should know when they enter a VLT parlor. It is no secret.
link to original post



I can think of one tribal casino that freely comingles Class II and Class III on the gaming floor. I don't recall any particular signage on the door or labelling on the machines.

Nothing* against the place; the VP all appears to be legit (with mediocre paytables). Anyone who cares can usually look at a machine and recognize which type it is, the house just isn't making a big deal that half their games are Bingo.

*: There are things I don't like, but those can be attributed to subjective aesthetic preference, rather than moral turpitude.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mental
Mental
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October 2nd, 2022 at 11:01:17 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

________________

this person from Quora makes a compelling argument
but I'm not by any means sure that he's correct
what is your opinion as to the accuracy of his claims____________?____________obviously his claim probably does not apply to games dealt by a live human dealer

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You are asking for an opinion, and I am providing one. I have played extensively on every site mentioned in the claim. I am quite happy that I am getting the expected RTP for the games that I play. If anything, I have done better with big bets than small bets. Is this 'a compelling argument' that there is no algorithm? Maybe there is an algorithm exists, but my betting style defeated the algo?

I have seen cheating exposed before, but it always involved analysis of data, not some claim generated out of paranoia.

DK provides a log under myaccount/transactions like this:

September XX, 2022 4:01pm Winnings
Casino win DraftKings Multihand Blackjack
ID XXX Casino +$825.00 $XX,XXX.XX

September XX, 2022 4:01pm Wagers and Entry Fees and Purchases
Casino stake DraftKings Multihand Blackjack
ID XXX Casino -$50.00 $XX,XXX.XX

September XX, 2022 4:01pm Wagers and Entry Fees and Purchases
Casino stake DraftKings Multihand Blackjack
ID XXX Casino -$350.00 $XX,XXX.XX

Every initial bet and subsequent added bet is recorded followed by the winnings paid, if any. Every site offers to provide a full gaming history on request. I use these logs to file my taxes. They always appear to be complete and accurate to the penny. It is a simple matter for someone with programming skills to parse these logs and see if the results are outside the bounds of randomness. Then you can make a claim backed by data. Until then, it is just a rant by a loser.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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Thanks for this post from:
OnceDear
October 2nd, 2022 at 12:22:50 PM permalink
_____________


the real question - which unfortunately I didn't make clear in my OP - is this:

is there a substantial risk of being dealt an unfair game online_____?

Mental's experience doesn't convince me of anything
the guy from Quora's experience doesn't convince me of anything

I don't know the answer

I think the answer may be unknowable - there is just not enough hard info out there

and I hate to admit it - but now I think the whole thread was just a waste of time


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"believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" - Edgar Allan Poe
Mental
Mental
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October 2nd, 2022 at 1:04:23 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

_____________

the real question - which unfortunately I didn't make clear in my OP - is this:

is there a substantial risk of being dealt an unfair game online_____?

Mental's experience doesn't convince me of anything
the guy from Quora's experience doesn't convince me of anything

I don't know the answer

I think the answer may be unknowable - there is just not enough hard info out there

and I hate to admit it - but now I think the whole thread was just a waste of time

link to original post



In the 2007 scandal involving the poker room “Absolute Poker”, the hand histories from a single-tournament were enough to provide conclusive evidence of cheating.

Anyone who feels they are cheated by online sites should simply present the evidence of their own gaming logs. Once they have the software to analyze their own data, they should be able to corroborate quickly by looking at data from other players. Gaming Enforcement can also get the data. It would be easy to nail the perps.

Hardly unknowable. There is a vast amount of data out there.
Dieter
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Dieter
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October 2nd, 2022 at 1:17:35 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

_____________


the real question - which unfortunately I didn't make clear in my OP - is this:

is there a substantial risk of being dealt an unfair game online_____?

Mental's experience doesn't convince me of anything
the guy from Quora's experience doesn't convince me of anything

I don't know the answer

I think the answer may be unknowable - there is just not enough hard info out there

and I hate to admit it - but now I think the whole thread was just a waste of time


.
link to original post



If you're going to play online, I suggest avoiding some of the offshore unregulated casinos.

It is probably worth checking that you're not about to deposit with a blacklisted casino.

Those playtesting videos that pop up from time to time do serve a purpose. They demonstrate that someone was able to satisfy KYC, deposit, play, and withdraw at least once.

Pretty much all casino games favor the house. Jumping from "I didn't win" to "They must be cheating!" seems extreme.

The time to worry is payout irregularities, or winnings voided from your account, or a book allowing losing wagers to be placed while the slow wheel times out before a winning wager could be recorded. That stuff is hinky.
May the cards fall in your favor.

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