and the crowd is silenced....
We always have this conversation about axis control.. and indeed there are some classes taught that suggest a
player use the hardway set . This set is indicated as an on axis set because it is supposed to limited the
appearance of the 1 and 6 which then limits the number of sevens you see.
Hopefully by now we all know dice do not stay on axis...... having fully accepted that as a fact, I do have
others notions that I believe as fact.
1... anyone that throws the dice, has an influence on the dice
2... if you throw the dice and result is consistently different than normal percentages would dictate
something has caused that
3....no matter how the dice get there, if the ending result shows influence there is influence
4... it is rather easy to show influence of one type or another
5....No matter what you do or how well you do it, you cant change the house advantage on
any shot on the table.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterI have a question.
We always have this conversation about axis control.. and indeed there are some classes taught that suggest a
player use the hardway set . This set is indicated as an on axis set because it is supposed to limited the
appearance of the 1 and 6 which then limits the number of sevens you see.
Hopefully by now we all know dice do not stay on axis...... having fully accepted that as a fact, I do have
others notions that I believe as fact.
1... anyone that throws the dice, has an influence on the dice
2... if you throw the dice and result is consistently different than normal percentages would dictate
something has caused that
3....no matter how the dice get there, if the ending result shows influence there is influence
4... it is rather easy to show influence of one type or another
5....No matter what you do or how well you do it, you cant change the house advantage on
any shot on the table.
dicesetter
I don't see a question in this post. However, your beliefs 4 and 5 are in direct conflict. If you can show influence on the dice (#4) that means the results are not random. The house advantage on any craps bet derives from the frequency distribution of numbers produced by a pair of random dice, so if #4 is true, then #5 cannot be true.
Quote: dicesitter2... if you throw the dice and result is consistently different than normal percentages would dictate
something has caused that
.
.
5....No matter what you do or how well you do it, you cant change the house advantage on
any shot on the table.
The house edge is based upon the percentage each number hits (and the payout amount.) 2 and 5 can't both be true statements.
I do think there is influence when ever you throw the dice, there may or may
not be any predictable influence, and influence can be positive or negative, particularly
'for those that think of themselves as a DI.
So for the vast majority, influence is just a word, mean nothing.
There is also no conflict in my contention that no matter what you do you cant
change the house advantage..... that is also true.... now note, I did not say you cant win,
I did not even say you cant win often, I said you cant change the house advantage .
This is because the house plays with the odds, on every bet except the free odds bet, you get
casino odds not real odds on your wins, the casino keeps some for themselves even if you
hit the number you wanted. ON all cases except the free odds part, even if you win, you lose
something because your not getting a fair shake on all your bets.
It is do different than playing a slot machine where you bet a dollar on every pull. You win .75. then
.90. then .85 and so on, you can win on every pull and soon your money is all gone.
Dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterThis is because the house plays with the odds
They play with the odds based on a random distribution of the dice. If you are changing the distribution, then you are changing the house edge which is based on the new distribution of the dice and the same payout amounts.
here is how they get the advantage
Craps:
Actual Odds: 8:1
Odds Paid: 7:1
House Edge: 11.11%
C & E:
Actual Odds: 5:1
Odds Paid: 3:1 on craps or 7:1 on 11
House Edge: 11.11%
Any 7:
Actual Odds: 5:1
Odds Paid: 4:1
House Advantage: 16.67%
The Field:
Actual Odds: 5:4
Odds Paid: 1:1 on 3, 4, 9, 10 or 11 and 2:1 on 2 and 12
House Advantage: 5:56. (If 3-1 odds is paid on 2 and 12, the house advantage is 2.78)
Horn Bet:
Actual Odds: 5:1
Odds Paid: 27:4 on 2 or 12 and 3:1 on 3 or 11
House Edge: 12.5%
Whirl/World:
Actual Odds: 2:1
Odds Paid: 26:5 on 2 or 12, 11:5 on 3 or 11, 0:1 (push) on 7
House Advantage: 13.33%
Hard 4 & Hard 10:
Actual Odds: 8:1
Odds Paid: 7:1
House Advantage: 11.11%
Hard 6 or Hard 8:
Actual Odds: 10:1
Odds Paid: 9:1
House Advantage: 9.09%
Big 6 & Big 8:
Actual Odds: 6:5
Odds Paid: 1:1
House Advantage: 9.09%
Place 4 or 10:
Actual Odds: 2:1
Odds Paid: 9:5
House Advantage: 6.67%
Place 5 or 9:
Actual Odds: 3:2
Odds Paid: 7:5
House Advantage: 4%
Place 6 or 8:
Actual Odds: 6:5
Odds Paid: 7:6
House Advantage: 1.52%
you can throw in a manner to hit more 6 &8's than normal percentage dictate, however you will not change
their payouts and thus not the house advantage. I understand many people have been told if you extend
your SRR to 7 or 8 ( even 24) you change the house advantage...you don't.. you can change the number of
times you get paid per roll etc, but the ha is still present on every roll.
Now I guess in a perfect world we could go to the table and place a pass line bet and throw a 7 and then another
7 then a 10, then a 10 for the point, then another 7,7, then a 10 , 10 and so on. If all you hit was a 10 . You
could then say well my actual odds are 100% of hitting the 10 and they pay me 9:5. But that is not a reasonable
way to look at it. Most players bet more than one bet and are not good enough to have the same distribution
on every roll.
I understand what your saying, but I don't think it applies in the real world.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitter
you can throw in a manner to hit more 6 &8's than normal percentage dictate, however you will not change
their payouts and thus not the house advantage.
dicesetter
We all wish you could prove this.....and there is again a conflict in your sentence. The payouts would obviously be higher since you hit the two numbers more than the percentages(math) dictate. The house advantage is eliminated due to more wins. The house could reduce the payouts on 6/8 to a level equal to the advantage you have(in your wildest dreams) created thus making it once again, a game which the house has an advantage even over dice influence peddlers. However, the regular guys who haven't paid for a course in said influencing won't play at such a table. I suggest you sell your course at another forum, this one has too many people who know the score and game.
Quote: dicesitteryou can throw in a manner to hit more 6 &8's
Quote: dicesitterI understand what your saying, but I don't think it applies in the real world.
I did not say I had an advantage, nor did I say any one else could get such advantage, I simply said since the
house has a built in advantage on all bets except the free odds bets, you cant change the HA.
The example i indicated was an if one.... if one could throw more 8,s or 10's , however i don't think it is possible for any player to go to the table and
change the probability curve on dice distribution across the board ( by that i mean on any number they throw)
i feel it is not possible to change the house advantage.
If anyone, including you can show we in real life how you effectively change the HA i would be impressed.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitternoktang
I did not say I had an advantage, nor did I say any one else could get such advantage, I simply said since the
house has a built in advantage on all bets except the free odds bets, you cant change the HA.
The example i indicated was an if one.... if one could throw more 8,s or 10's , however i don't think it is possible for any player to go to the table and
change the probability curve on dice distribution across the board ( by that i mean on any number they throw)
i feel it is not possible to change the house advantage.
If anyone, including you can show we in real life how you effectively change the HA i would be impressed.
dicesetter
In summary, are you now saying that dice can't be influenced, meaning avoiding more sevens(or causing more to appear)? How will that work when selling courses in dice control? You most certainly change the HA if you can avoid sevens or cause them.
Quote: dicesitter
I did not say I had an advantage, nor did I say any one else could get such advantage, I simply said since the
house has a built in advantage on all bets except the free odds bets, you cant change the HA.
If anyone, including you can show we in real life how you effectively change the HA i would be impressed.
dicesetter
The house advantage does not change, these on axis DI schools make their money off of teaching something they call a skill, that can not be proving! They like to use what they call an SRR(seven to roll ratio) to sell what they are doing. That SRR is constantly changing, that is why they have PSO's and short rolls.
If they won every time they went to the tables, they wouldn't waste their time teaching becoming a DI. Use car salesman are very good at getting their suckers to believe anything they are selling!
One of their great fiction writers claimed for years that he had an SRR of 28. That was way to funny yes if you ask me!
His followers still believe that he is the worlds greatest DI, even though no one has ever seen him shooting in a real casino. These on axis craps schools use him as a poster child for what they are selling! Isn't fiction great, you can sell anything with it, there are always plenty of suckers to keep them in business.
If you can't maintain the same SRR every time you go to the tables how do you change anything. You may have a string of good rolls, but what happens when your luck changes? Then there is always this,... these guys that are running the on axis DI schools still have their day jobs. What does that tell you?
If these schools didn't teach you very good betting skills how are you going to turn anything into a advantage? The other thing is after taking a course most if not all of their students go back to the same old betting habits that they paid to get rid of.
How comes none of these instructors don't have winning rolls every time they go to the tables they have had years to perfect what they call skills? Yet they run and hide when they don't have a good roll, they use their students hook-up fees to pay for their buy-ins.
Now days the one on axis school is calling their hook-up fees the “After Glow” fee . Different name but the same old thing.
Just charging a hook-up fee should tell everybody that take their class that there is something wrong with what they are selling, if they are not willing to risk their own money on the tables why would anybody buy into what they are selling?
Quote: wudgedThe house edge is based upon the percentage each number hits (and the payout amount.) 2 and 5 can't both be true statements.
#2 and #5 can both be true.
The house advantage is a theoretical number which is why #5 is true.
Someone might have the ability to throw more numbers than others, which makes #2 true. In an extreme example, if a casino allowed me to slide the dice I could give you an abnormally high result of any number you choose, be it a 12 or hard-six or anything.
Quote: dicesitterthe casino keeps some for themselves even if you
hit the number you wanted. ON all cases except the free odds part, even if you win, you lose
something because your not getting a fair shake on all your bets.
It is do different than playing a slot machine where you bet a dollar on every pull. You win .75. then
.90. then .85 and so on, you can win on every pull and soon your money is all gone.
Dicesetter
First, I think you meant to say "it is NO different than playing a slot machine." But you have your analogy wrong.
In a slot machine a "win" could be less than the original bet. But on a craps table a win (for right way players) is always the same amount as you bet or more than you bet.
If I have a place six bet which pays 7-to-6 and if I win that bet enough times the casino will go broke even if the casino is not paying true odds which would be 6-to-5.
While craps is by definition a negative expectation game because of the pays, you can win at the game by winning more than you bet.
Quote: AlanMendelsonFirst, I think you meant to say "it is NO different than playing a slot machine." But you have your analogy wrong.
In a slot machine a "win" could be less than the original bet. But on a craps table a win (for right way players) is always the same amount as you bet or more than you bet.
If I have a place six bet which pays 7-to-6 and if I win that bet enough times the casino will go broke even if the casino is not paying true odds which would be 6-to-5.
While craps is by definition a negative expectation game because of the pays, you can win at the game by winning more than you bet.
Alan,..If I was you I would go out and buy some books on casino management, or spend so time in our libraries here in Vegas reading up on that subject. You are totally wrong on the place six bet. You could hit it every time you and everybody else went to the craps tables and the casinos would still be making money on that bet.
What you are saying would have to happen on every roll of the dice once you and everybody else placed that bet. And guess what the casinos would still be making money on that bet because of the Vig that take out every time you hit it. Then you have to factor in the fact that they would still have every other bet that is on the table, that they are making money on .
The real truth of the matter is what you are writing is impossible to happen, you know it and so should everybody else. Before you start making statements that can't come true do yourself a big favor and do your homework on casino management and how they figure out the math on the craps tables!
What you don't understand is that on every winning bet you are still losing money because of the Vig!
The other concept of craps that you don't understand is that you have to have the shooter make the numbers that you have your chips on to win. Just because you bet a number doesn't mean that you ever going to win that bet and even if it pays more then you bet you have to win a lot more bets then you lose. Remember you said it's a negative game and your right. I see way more money lost on the two box numbers that they say are the best box numbers to bet,...your six and eight!
That's right the six and eight will lose more then any other box numbers! The casinos love you to bet on those two numbers. Most craps players will never get over four rolls of the dice and there are time that the 6' and 8's will disappear for long periods of time. The first bet that you see most craps players making when they place a bet is the sixes and eights. That's how I can make that statement,..they are the two bets that get the most action on the craps tables and guess what we still have the game of craps!
The casinos know that they have the lowest house edge on those two box numbers, but even so they are always going to make money in the long run on the six and eight and the house edge is going to eat up the average craps player betting on those two box numbers!
The math of the game tells the casino what they can charge on any number on the game and still make money. You only win at craps due to the variance and luck, even if you'er a so-called DI. Don't let anybody feed you a line of BS, just look at the slow motion videos that I've posted on the craps boards. Once the dice hit the tables they bounce all over the place, case closed!
Quote: AlanMendelson#2 and #5 can both be true.
The house advantage is a theoretical number which is why #5 is true.
Someone might have the ability to throw more numbers than others, which makes #2 true. In an extreme example, if a casino allowed me to slide the dice I could give you an abnormally high result of any number you choose, be it a 12 or hard-six or anything.
In an extreme example, suppose you could roll 12 every single time. Adjusting the Wizard's calculation found at https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/#toc-Craps22FCraps12, the house edge on 12 hopping / midnight then becomes [(36/36)×30 + (0/36)×(-1)]/1 = 30 = 3000% player edge. This "theoretical" edge everybody talks about is based explicitly on random dice. If you are changing the probability, you are changing the edge. That's the entire purpose of DI in the first place.
Quote: wudgedIf you are changing the probability, you are changing the edge. That's the entire purpose of DI in the first place.
Can't believe this is so hard to understand!
Great job Dubya!
Quote: wudgedIn an extreme example, suppose you could roll 12 every single time. Adjusting the Wizard's calculation found at https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/#toc-Craps22FCraps12, the house edge on 12 hopping / midnight then becomes [(36/36)×30 + (0/36)×(-1)]/1 = 30 = 3000% player edge. This "theoretical" edge everybody talks about is based explicitly on random dice. If you are changing the probability, you are changing the edge. That's the entire purpose of DI in the first place.
The problem with what you are saying is that you can't do it. The house edge is always going to stay the same even if you have been brainwashed in to believing the fiction that is written about becoming a DI.
You simply can't maintain the same SRR every time you go to the tables,...so that edge that you think you have is constantly changing. It will not always stay at one level, there are way to many variables that happen on a craps table that will break a roll. You have the late bets the hands and chips in the way, you have the nut case , screaming in your ear for their stupid point to be made. Last night I had one of the many fools that are on the craps table complain to after the roll was over with that I never hit his stupid six that he loaded up his chips on.
All he had to do was to look at the fact that I didn't have any chips on that point and could care less if I ever hit it! If you think of yourself that you are what I call a so-called DI you have to realize that your SRR is never the same and you will have many short rolls and PSO's that can rob chips from you every time you go to the tables. You can't believe all to the fiction that is written on the different DI craps boards and in their books.
Most so called DI's base their stupid SRR on what they do on their practice rigs, that aren't even real tables. They have the perfect shooting opportunities at home they do not have real money on the line. There is no chips in their way, nobody is doing all of the stupid things that happen on real craps table when your shooting.
Therefore every time you go to the tables that SRR is constantly changing! Everything the so-called experts write about is still an "theoretical" edge, that means absolutely nothing!
Quote: superrickAlan,..If I was you I would go out and buy some books on casino management, or spend so time in our libraries here in Vegas reading up on that subject. You are totally wrong on the place six bet. You could hit it every time you and everybody else went to the craps tables and the casinos would still be making money on that bet.
What you are saying would have to happen on every roll of the dice once you and everybody else placed that bet. And guess what the casinos would still be making money on that bet because of the Vig that take out every time you hit it. Then you have to factor in the fact that they would still have every other bet that is on the table, that they are making money on .
Do I really have to explain this to you?
I bet $6 on the 6. And I hit it. The casino pays me $7. How does the casino make money from that? The vig means nothing.
Where the casino makes money on craps is not on the vig. Where the casino makes money (on right way players) is that it pays out on only the bets that hit, and it clears the table when a seven is rolled.
Quote: wudgedIn an extreme example, suppose you could roll 12 every single time. Adjusting the Wizard's calculation found at https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/#toc-Craps22FCraps12, the house edge on 12 hopping / midnight then becomes [(36/36)×30 + (0/36)×(-1)]/1 = 30 = 3000% player edge. This "theoretical" edge everybody talks about is based explicitly on random dice. If you are changing the probability, you are changing the edge. That's the entire purpose of DI in the first place.
Perhaps I have a different understanding of house edge or house advantage.
My understanding is that the house edge or house advantage is always a fixed number based on the particular math of the game. For example, in video poker when dealt 4 to the royal you have a 1 out of 47 chance of drawing the royal card in a 52-card game.
In craps you have a one out of 36 chance of throwing a 12.
My understanding is those odds and house edge and house advantage are fixed and they have nothing to do with what a player might or might not be able to do or does.
For example, in craps, an accomplished dice slider can slide the dice to show more 12s than a normal distribution. While he might do that, the house edge and the house advantage on the "high bet" never changes -- it is fixed by the math of the game.
In other words -- there is the expected return of the game, and looking back there was the actual return of the game. In video poker, how many of us have played a 9/6 Jacks or Better game with an expected return of 99.6% but lost 100% of our money or doubled our money for a 200% return?
NoneQuote: AlanMendelsonIn video poker, how many of us have played a 9/6 Jacks or Better game with an expected return of 99.6% but lost 100% of our money or doubled our money for a 200% return?
I think you understood what I meant, even if you hit the number, you are not getting the real
odds so in terms of the casino, they kept some of your winnings.
That is important over time. Say you have a pass line bet of $10 with 3 times odds on the
8 and a $12 6 and $10 nine.
You hit your pass line winner and get $10 pass line back and $35 for your odds. You place
another $10 pass bet and set the number of 8 again and place $30 odds. You hit a 6 for$14
and then throw a 7.
You won $59 and you lost $62, real odds took about $2 off your win.
I understand it is not much, but you play for a year and add up the difference between
what you got paid and true odds.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterAlan
I think you understood what I meant, even if you hit the number, you are not getting the real
odds so in terms of the casino, they kept some of your winnings.
dicesetter
It doesn't matter if you're getting true odds. If you hit your numbers you are still getting a profit.
Quote: TropicalElectriSuppose you buy a Latte for $4.00 every day; you give the clerk a $5.00 bill then they give you .50 change. You are still getting some money back but the store is gaining .50 cents on the transaction.
Yes, but suppose you could "influence" the barista to give you extra every day, such that you were really getting $6 worth of latte, and paying only $4.50.
Quote: TropicalElectriSuppose you buy a Latte for $4.00 every day; you give the clerk a $5.00 bill then they give you .50 change. You are still getting some money back but the store is gaining .50 cents on the transaction.
Don't be absurd.
A win is a win even if not at true odds.
That would be true, and it would be enough, except you don t hit the number you bet on all the
time, so the complete lose on the number you don't hit and the loss of true odds on the numbers
you do end up treating you like a slot machine, every pull has a cost.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterThat would be true, and it would be enough, except you don t hit the number you bet on all the
time, so the complete lose on the number you don't hit and the loss of true odds on the numbers
you do end up treating you like a slot machine, every pull has a cost.
Same with the Player bet in baccarat; and the Banker push-win on three-card 7's (?) in EZ bacc.
Well said......
I am not arguing with Alan, he knows a lot about the game, I am simple saying
that the house advantage can eat away at your bankroll over time.
Dicesetter
Quote: wudgedYes, but suppose you could "influence" the barista to give you extra every day, such that you were really getting $6 worth of latte, and paying only $4.50.
POTD
Quote: dicesitterAlan
That would be true, and it would be enough, except you don t hit the number you bet on all the
time, so the complete lose on the number you don't hit and the loss of true odds on the numbers
you do end up treating you like a slot machine, every pull has a cost.
dicesetter
But that is not the question. What you wrote was this:
Quote: dicesitterAlan
I think you understood what I meant, even if you hit the number, you are not getting the real
odds so in terms of the casino, they kept some of your winnings.
dicesetter
The point is: what the casino keeps in terms of short-changing true odds doesnt matter if you are hitting your numbers.
Not hitting your numbers would make you a loser even if the casino were paying true odds.
In other words, the "odds" or the "payoffs" do not make you a winner at craps -- it is hitting the numbers that you bet on which is what makes you a winner at craps.
And let me expand that thought: betting full odds does not make you a winner either. NO betting formula will make you a winner. ONLY hitting your numbers will make you a winner.
You know better than that...
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterAlan
You know better than that...
dicesetter
Better than what? Be exact.
Quote: odiousgambityou two do realize that the other guy is not going to say "you're right"
Alan's next marriage be at the local VP bank?
Your suggesting a couple of things, so exactly what is that???
1... are you suggesting that any player always hits every number he or she bets on ????
2....are you suggesting that over time the house advantage between what you get and what you
should get has no affect on your bank roll.
I am not trying to weasle out of an answer, I don't what else to say or what you could be thinking.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterwhat you could be thinking.
dicesetter
I spoke with a craps dealer yesterday in Vegas about this and had the opinion you have that it makes no
difference... he said all the casino's pay exact and correct odds...
he said look at how many ways you can make a 7 which is 6 and how many ways you can make a 10
which is 3...he said the casino pays 2 for 1 on 4 and 10... I said what happens when you place a
4 for $5..... opps he said well in that case you only get paid $9
and on and on
I understand your point, when guys like you play with so much money it does not matter... and I
guess even for normal folks...
I wonder then how in the world they make enough money to build the casino's if the house advantage
does not matter??
dicesitter
House Edge is based on random dice. Kind of like how blackjack is based on basic strategy and not counting cards. And carnival games are based on proper strategy, not hole-carding. If you play with information, then the edge shifts away from the house and toward the player. IF you can do the DI stuff, then you're essentially playing with information.
IF you can change the frequency of each number being rolled, then you change the house edge (or the return). It doesn't matter if you can hit your numbers every time or if some times you miss. That's called VARIANCE.
IF I can throw the dice in a way so I am equally likely to throw a 7 as I am to throw a 8, and I bet on the 8, then I have an 8.33% edge over the house. Sometimes I throw a 7 first, sometimes I throw an 8 first. But overall, I throw the same amount of 7's and 8's.
This is not a complicated subject, learn some f*cking math and logic.
With all that being that is a BIG IF.
And DI is a myth.
Quote: RSHoly sh*t this is ridiculous.
House Edge is based on random dice.
No. It has nothing to do with random dice, nor does the house edge change if you can throw more of one number than another.
The house edge is based on a fixed formula based on the actual six sided dice: each has one 1, one 2, one 3, and so forth. Those combinations create the house edge.
YOUR personal results will vary based on how YOU throw the dice and how they land. But there is only one way to make a deuce, and only one way to make 12, and that will never change.
Quote: AlanMendelsonNo. It has nothing to do with random dice, nor does the house edge change if you can throw more of one number than another.
The house edge is based on a fixed formula based on the actual six sided dice: each has one 1, one 2, one 3, and so forth. Those combinations create the house edge.
YOUR personal results will vary based on how YOU throw the dice and how they land. But there is only one way to make a deuce, and only one way to make 12, and that will never change.
Player Edge is the inverse of House Edge.
In blackjack, the house edge shifts throughout play. If there are more Aces and Tens remaining to be played, the edge shifts towards the player. If you can roll more of whatever number(s) you want, the edge shifts towards the player.
You are wrong. You're making a mockery out of yourself.
Quote: FroggerI can't believe anyone still really believes.
I think the discussion is no longer about DI. The discussion now is what is the house edge?
The house edge has nothing to do with anyone's ability or inability to influence dice. The house edge is strictly the math of the six faces of two dice and the combinations that those six faces can make.
Somehow, there are people who think that they can change the house edge by how they throw the dice and how the dice land. Sorry -- not true. The house edge is the house edge and it will never change. You might have a personal result that is better or worse than the house edge, but the house edge is fixed.
It's the same way when you play video poker with a 52-card deck. The house edge never changes. When dealt 4 to the royal you will always have a 1/47 chance of drawing the royal card. Even if you are dealt 10s Js Qs Ks and Ad and you choose to hold the Ad for a striaght -- you still had a 1/47 shot at a royal which you decided not to pursue.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI think the discussion is no longer about DI. The discussion now is what is the house edge?
The house edge has nothing to do with anyone's ability or inability to influence dice. The house edge is strictly the math of the six faces of two dice and the combinations that those six faces can make.
Somehow, there are people who think that they can change the house edge by how they throw the dice and how the dice land. Sorry -- not true. The house edge is the house edge and it will never change. You might have a personal result that is better or worse than the house edge, but the house edge is fixed.
It's the same way when you play video poker with a 52-card deck. The house edge never changes. When dealt 4 to the royal you will always have a 1/47 chance of drawing the royal card. Even if you are dealt 10s Js Qs Ks and Ad and you choose to hold the Ad for a striaght -- you still had a 1/47 shot at a royal which you decided not to pursue.
It would be nice if someone who you would believe would refute you.
Quote: Dalex64It would be nice if someone who you would believe would refute you.
refute what? The odds at craps and the house edge at craps doesn't change with each subsequent roll. The odds are the odds. The house edge is the house edge. What is so difficult to understand?
Here, look at what the Wizard says:
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
Does he say that the edge varies with each subsequent roll of the dice? Does he say the odds or edge changes based on the skill of a shooter, or if a shooter rolls more 8s than expected? No.
Quote: RSIn blackjack, the house edge shifts throughout play. If there are more Aces and Tens remaining to be played, the edge shifts towards the player. If you can roll more of whatever number(s) you want, the edge shifts towards the player.
You are wrong. You're making a mockery out of yourself.
In blackjack the number of potential cards remaining to be dealt in a shoe changes with each hand dealt. In craps you have the same 36 potential combinations with each subsequent roll.
The results of one roll of the dice do not alter the expectation for the next roll of the dice -- or are you saying they do?
Lets pretend someone can roll anything they want because of skill. Are you just saying that the edge belongs to just the player? If so how would you describe what happens to the casinos edge?Quote: AlanMendelsonIn blackjack the number of potential cards remaining to be dealt in a shoe changes with each hand dealt. In craps you have the same 36 potential combinations with each subsequent roll.
The results of one roll of the dice do not alter the expectation for the next roll of the dice -- or are you saying they do?
It's always a mathematical house edge as long as it remains random.
