DarkOz Bubble Craps Dice Theory

Quote: AxelWolf

It's obvious WatchMeWin was getting to close too the truth about bubble craps floor magnets and he had to be silenced at once.

There are computer chips inside bubble craps dice and they can be remotely manipulated

I have seen it for myself

Quote: darkoz

There are computer chips inside bubble craps dice and they can be remotely manipulated

I have seen it for myself

STOP!

Explain.

I have no doubt there are computer chips in the game for record keeping and whatnot.

If you have evidence they can and do alter the odds, please elaborate.

Please, don't just speculate. Give us something we can sink our teeth in.

Please explain to me why you can't take advantage of this situation and become a multi millionaire in a very short period of time?

Quote: darkoz

There are computer chips inside bubble craps dice and they can be remotely manipulated

I have seen it for myself

That's helicopter money right there. Can you PM me and explain this?

David koresh style.

Quote: darkoz

There are computer chips inside bubble craps dice and they can be remotely manipulated

I have seen it for myself

Can you elaborate further on exactly what you saw?

That’s a huge statement

Quote: AxelWolf

STOP!


Please explain to me why you can't take advantage of this situation and become a multi millionaire in a very short period of time?

Because it's not true. Don't you think slot manufacturer employees, slot department employees, slot repair employees would all quit their jobs and/or have their family play full time taking advantage of a machine that "even a things out" or makes things right" in certain situations?


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Because it's not true. Don't you think slot manufacturer employees, slot department employees, slot repair employees would all quit their jobs and/or have their family play full time taking advantage of a machine that "even a things out" or makes things right" in certain situations?


ZCore13

Idk man....he is the "most feared anonymous AP team leader" or some-such made up stuff.

Quote: darkoz

There are computer chips inside bubble craps dice and they can be remotely manipulated

I have seen it for myself

Were you being serious DO?
I suggest this interesting sub topic should have its own thread, rather than in the suspension list discussion thread. Thanks.

Quote: Zcore13

Because it's not true. Don't you think slot manufacturer employees, slot department employees, slot repair employees would all quit their jobs and/or have their family play full time taking advantage of a machine that "even a things out" or makes things right" in certain situations?


ZCore13

NO, because 99.% of casino industry employees are complete idiots when it comes to gambling. out of the 1% remaining who are NOT idiots .5% become APs, the other .5% remain in the industry, however, they know whats up.

For instance, take a random BJ dealer who has been dealing for 5+ years and see if they know basic BJ strategy. I would bet you they don't know BJ BS. Give them 10 of the most difficult basic BJ strategy questions and I bet they would get less than 60% correct. That's horrible since they have been dealing for 5+ years.

How many dealers who have dealt roulette actually know the house advantage on roulette? You would think 80% to 90% should know. I bet its less than 25% that could answer 5.2x %.

Ask any BJ dealer if a players hitting or standing will affect the other players percentage at the table negatively.

p.s. I agree with you its not true, but it has nothing to do with casino industry employees having the wherewithal to exploit a good situation. FYI I put you in that .5%

Quote: OnceDear

Were you being serious DO?
I suggest this interesting sub topic should have its own thread, rather than in the suspension list discussion thread. Thanks.

Is this supersizing to you coming from Darkzo? Go back and read how he thinks he can predict slot bonuses coming up. I browbeat him on this subject but he just kept saying it is not AP'able. Obviously, if it were true, it IS exploitable somehow, even if he himself can't figure out how to exploit it.

I have no doubt he has mastered a few aspects of AP mail in his region. None the less, I think he has a little ZK in his blood.

I will answer here one post and then if the mods want it moved to a separate thread im fine. Everyone is asking on this thread.

Here is what i witnessed.

1) A female player who for over a week did funky stuff with her Ipad. Her behavior was also funky. She never watched the game. Only her ipad briefly pausing to make bets

Also she would ONLY sit on one seat at first base position on the left side of the table. She was religious about this even refusing to play until that particular seat became available

After one week security surrounded her and immediately confiscated the Ipad. She was taken away. Security was examining and going thru her ipad right there

2) Maybe a month later one bubble die landed cockeyed against the wall as soon as the floor started bouncing. It was clear nothing was gonna shake it off this weird position

When the floor stopped shaking the machine froze naturally. All player waited 30 minutes for the companies tech to arrive to fix

He DID NOT touch the dice or floor or even open the bubble. Instead he accessed the panel of the empty seat next to me (coincidentally the very same seat this woman had always insisted on playing at) and pushed a button in the computer. That made the die wiggle and shake ON ITS OWN which caused it to fall over

I asked what he had done and he ssid there were chips inside that the computer read to determine pips.

He wasnt going to tell me more than that obviously but I witnessed the die move witbout outside physical inertia

Between those 2 events you can put together that it is possible to affect the dice remotely

Im not accusing casinos of doing that. Just that its possible

And to directly answer axels question why I dont take advantage of it myself, it would require use of a computer device and I dont want my helicopter ride from the casino be a trip to the state penitentiary

Quote: darkoz

I will answer here one post and then if the mods want it moved to a separate thread im fine. Everyone is asking on this thread.

Here is what i witnessed.

1) A female player who for over a week did funky stuff with her Ipad. Her behavior was also funky. She never watched the game. Only her ipad briefly pausing to make bets

After one week security surrounded her and immediately confiscated the Ipad. She was taken away. Security was examining and going thru her ipad right there

2) Maybe a month later one bubble die landed cockeyed against the wall as soon as the floor started bouncing. It was clear nothing was gonna shake it off this weird position

When the floor stopped shaking the machine froze naturally. All player waited 30 minutes for the companies tech to arrive to fix

He DID NOT touch the dice or floor or even open the bubble. Instead he accessed the panel of the empty seat next to me and pushed a button in the computer. That made the die wiggle and shake ON ITS OWN which caused it to fall over

I asked what he had done and he ssid there were chips inside that the computer read to determine pips.

He wasnt going to tell me more than that obviously but I witnessed the die move witbout outside physical inertia

Between those 2 events you can put together that it is possible to affect the dice remotely

Im not accusing casinos of doing that. Just that its possible

And to directly answer axels question why I dont take advantage of it myself, I dont want my helicopter ride from the casino be a trip to the state penitentiary

Item 1 means absolutely nothing to the question. She was probably being paid to sit there and run money through someone's account via the game, maybe her own. I have seen many young women doing this on slots and other machines. No interest in the game, don't even bother to notice big wins or bonuses. They just keep betting and spinning, probably with instructions on what to play, maybe with real-time coordination via the ipad, but more likely something that interested her more on there.

Item 2 is interesting. Still could be a randomizer-shaker, or a maintenance-only keyed function that doesn't operate when the game is in live mode. Was it a strong enough bounce that the die could do anything other than fall on its nearest face?.

So you have zero evidence to back up your statement. Lol. You watched a lady for a week straight. Good one.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

So you have zero evidence to back up your statement. Lol. You watched a lady for a week straight. Good one.


ZCore13

Interesting how you conveniently left out the second incident

Quote: beachbumbabs

Item 1 means absolutely nothing to the question. She was probably being paid to sit there and run money through someone's account via the game, maybe her own. I have seen many young women doing this on slots and other machines. No interest in the game, don't even bother to notice big wins or bonuses. They just keep betting and spinning, probably with instructions on what to play, maybe with real-time coordination via the ipad, but more likely something that interested her more on there.

Item 2 is interesting. Still could be a randomizer-shaker, or a maintenance-only keyed function that doesn't operate when the game is in live mode. Was it a strong enough bounce that the die could do anything other than fall on its nearest face?.

It wasnt a bounce. It was a wiggle that caused it to dislodge from its position

It resembled a magic trick where a magician makes an object just move of its own accord

Quote: darkoz

Interesting how you conveniently left out the second incident

Because it was as ridiculous as the 1st.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Because it was as ridiculous as the 1st.


ZCore13

Please explain. Ridiculous because you don’t think it happened, or that the tech guy lied to darkoz? Or do you think the story is true but the conclusion DO draws is ridiculous?

Besides the chips in the dice theory, how does the machine know what sides the dice landed on?

Quote: unJon

Please explain. Ridiculous because you don’t think it happened, or that the tech guy lied to darkoz? Or do you think the story is true but the conclusion DO draws is ridiculous?

It may have happened that way in his mind. Most of the conclusions he and ZK come to are twisted stories of mixed fact and fiction.

Yes, there are sensors in the machines to tell what the dice roll is. Of course there are. There's not tiny men that live in the machine doing data entry.

No, they can't "activate these sensors or the games computer chips or anything else to create a number on the die they want or don't want.

He didn't watch a lady for a week straight either. A few minutes, a few hours, maybe. I week straight? Lol.

As with all conspiracy theorists, they take actual events and manipulate them to their liking.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

It may have happened that way in his mind. Most of the conclusions he and ZK come to are twisted stories of mixed fact and fiction.

Yes, there are sensors in the machines to tell what the dice roll is. Of course there are. There's not tiny men that live in the machine doing data entry.

No, they can't "activate these sensors or the games computer chips or anything else to create a number on the die they want or don't want.

He didn't watch a lady for a week straight either. A few minutes, a few hours, maybe. I week straight? Lol.

As with all conspiracy theorists, they take actual events and manipulate them to their liking.


ZCore13

Do you know whether or not the sensors are in the dice?

Quote: Wizard

Besides the chips in the dice theory, how does the machine know what sides the dice landed on?

The chips in the dice is fact. They use RFID

Thats precisely how the machine knows which side the die landed on

RFID chips in the die send out an electro-magnetic signal which tells the computer the correct result

I saw what was apparently a usage of that electro-magnetic signal to create a dice movement

Im not an electrical engineer so cant say more on it other than what I witnessed and the reply I got from the technician

I do not believe the casinos are manipulating the dice. Im just reporting what I saw and postulating that it is possible to do so

Quote: Zcore13

It may have happened that way in his mind. Most of the conclusions he and ZK come to are twisted stories of mixed fact and fiction.

Yes, there are sensors in the machines to tell what the dice roll is. Of course there are. There's not tiny men that live in the machine doing data entry.

No, they can't "activate these sensors or the games computer chips or anything else to create a number on the die they want or don't want.

He didn't watch a lady for a week straight either. A few minutes, a few hours, maybe. I week straight? Lol.

As with all conspiracy theorists, they take actual events and manipulate them to their liking.


ZCore13

Zcore

As Wiz will attest I was doing what I refer to in other posts as my NY AP move (which I have yet to reveal here except to a few like the Wiz)

I was doing this move for approximately 5-6 hours a day at bubble craps

So yes I observed her for an entire week. Approximately 40 plus gaming hours in my estimation

Quote: unJon

Do you know whether or not the sensors are in the dice?

There is a little bit more info on it here

https://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/blogs/mr_ac_casino/electronic-craps-shaken-not-rolled/article_8c0288f5-b041-5fd2-b897-07eb9ca61199.html

I don't think the RFID chips do anything but reflect their position within the dice to an outside sensor. Making the die tip like magic sounds like a separate magnet reset switch. Some of these bubble craps machines will roll the same number 10 out of 12 times at some point, and don't casinos check the dice for magnets at real craps tables?
Will Magnets Disrupt RFID Chips? | Techwalla.com https://www.techwalla.com/articles/will-magnets-disrupt-rfid-chips

Quote: darkoz

Zcore

As Wiz will attest I was doing what I refer to in other posts as my NY AP move (which I have yet to reveal here except to a few like the Wiz)

I was doing this move for approximately 5-6 hours a day at bubble craps

it's been several hours since your post and Wiz hasn't attested to anything

Quote: darkoz

... https://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/blogs/mr_ac_casino/electronic-craps-shaken-not-rolled/article_8c0288f5-b041-5fd2-b897-07eb9ca61199.html ...

fyi this site doesn't work in the EU (c.f. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44248448 - I think there are a fair number of US sites, that due to the recent General Data Protection Regulation in the EU, have yet to be updated to work here.)

Quote: darkoz

The chips in the dice is fact. They use RFID

Thats precisely how the machine knows which side the die landed on

RFID chips in the die send out an electro-magnetic signal which tells the computer the correct result

I saw what was apparently a usage of that electro-magnetic signal to create a dice movement

Im not an electrical engineer so cant say more on it other than what I witnessed and the reply I got from the technician

I do not believe the casinos are manipulating the dice. Im just reporting what I saw and postulating that it is possible to do so

A slot tech that I knew to not be an idiot once explained to me that they are not in fact RFID based, but rather that there is magnetic paint in the pips on the dice. This is there for sole purpose of reading the result, and does not affect the rolling of the dice in any way. There are sensors in the table that read the pips that are touching the platform. This is why, when the dice aren't perfectly level, the machine sometimes cannot read the result.

It is possible, at least in theory, that this machine with the right software could introduce some amount of bias in whatever direction would best suit the house on a given roll based on the outstanding bets. This is NOT happening in any regulated jurisdiction, and the "right" software probably only exists as an interesting thought experiment in my head. Further, none of the factors that you mentioned indicate any kind of shenanigans occurring.

The "right" software for this could take advantage of the fact that the machine has a camera and controls the velocity and angle of the jolt that occurs when one presses the button. It also controls the angle of the platform and intensity of the secondary vibrations that occur once the dice have started to land after the initial jolt. Presumably, those factors are determined by an RNG. But they wouldn't have to be.

Conceivably, it wouldn't be that difficult to create software that could analyze the position and velocity of each die when the button is pushed, and then maximize the potential for a favorable house result for a specific roll by calculating the correct combination of the amount of power to give to the initial jolt, the correct angle for the platform to be at at the time of the initial jolt, and the right angle of the platform and intensity of secondary vibrations once the dice have landed. A more simple version could simply deliver powerful secondary vibrations for a longer period of time as the dice are coming to rest if the result would be unfavorable. Plus or minus 0.5 seconds of secondary vibrations based on what the dice were naturally coming to rest on could potentially deliver an enormous house edge. If you have ever played one of these things for more than an hour, you have seen extreme variations in the power of the initial jolt and the secondary vibrations - sometimes the dice literally don't roll from the result that they were on when the button was pushed, and others the jolt is powerful and the roll seems to be chaotic (as all rolls should be). So this could be done and it could look no different than the regular game play. However, even this software wouldn't be able to deliver a specific result a high percentage of the time - it would simply provide a bias and increase the house edge higher than it should be.

But again, this is not happening. I haven't written this software, and likely nobody else has.

Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.

Quote: cyberbabble

Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.

This forum would be alot better without all the snark. I'd like to know how many people with interesting things to say choose not to post here after seeing so many others being cut to shreds. Some are deserving, most are not. But overall it damages the forum and leads to a lack of diversity of thought.

Quote: cyberbabble

Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.

I'll be ready to administer the Voight-Kampff on sight!

Seriously though, Ahigh built a dice-throwing robot to research dice influence. IIRC, he was able to reproduce a landing spot pretty consistently, but the robot sucked at keeping the dice on axis. But I don't think he really got too many iterations in to that project.

Quote: lilredrooster

it's been several hours since your post and Wiz hasn't attested to anything

Search for NY AP MOVE thread. The Wiz attested there that the move was valid as I described it to him

Quote: darkoz

Search for NY AP MOVE thread. The Wiz attested there that the move was valid as I described it to him

Here it is if anyone's interested.

Work on behest of evil, you see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, because you're blind to evil.

Quote: lilredrooster

it's been several hours since your post and Wiz hasn't attested to anything

Since he mentioned it, I will attest that darkoz told me a play he is doing on certain craps machines. Of course, I can't reveal the details, but I could see him playing the games for hours.

"Rigged /Loaded /Magic /Trick Sic Bo video and instructions"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ6-oZ6KsZU

Quote: heatmap

"Rigged /Loaded /Magic /Trick Sic Bo video and instructions"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ6-oZ6KpsZU

You do know there is a huge difference between what an individual can create as compared to what a licensed game producer creates and has GLI certified right?


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

You do know there is a huge difference between what an individual can create as compared to what a licensed game producer creates and has GLI certified right?


ZCore13

I do consider that, but that makes it even more believable. If ONE single person creates magic loaded dice then what can a corporation do with its money, lawers, and countless people working to improve their industry or hide any information they want under the guise of intellectual property. What other information, such as the pictures I've posted is out there that no one can release?

This was also to see if this is possibly what OP saw. He said he saw dice vibrating and I post a video of what I think he saw so he can compare.

Quote: Wizard

Since he mentioned it, I will attest that darkoz told me a play he is doing on certain craps machines. Of course, I can't reveal the details, but I could see him playing the games for hours.

Hopefully because you are exploiting it all over the Valley.

Even the “All knowing, All sharing” Wizard needs to make the most of an opportunity when he sees it.

And then, in the name of the goodness of this site, you will share it with everyone. And if it kills someone else’s play, so it be. That has been your public persona, correct?

You can tell the Wiz about plays as long as you make him swear to secrecy before you do.

Unless the "Valley" is located in New York I am not sure what about a NY AP move the Wizard could exploit

At any rate I moved on from that move years ago and to my knowledge that move is dead as well

At some point I will divulge how it worked.

Quote: RogerKint

You can tell the Wiz about plays as long as you make him swear to secrecy before you do.

But that is against the “Bob Dancer/Rob Singer” mentality here where everything is open game in the name of better Gaming for the viewer.

While both members are only here to help the average player visiting the site, anyone losing following their systems is on their own. After all it’s only gambling, and any casino allowing these 2 to teach classes is risking their own profitability allowing their students to kick their ass**.

Quote: darkoz

Unless the "Valley" is located in New York I am not sure what about a NY AP move the Wizard could exploit

At any rate I moved on from that move years ago and to my knowledge that move is dead as well

At some point I will divulge how it worked.

If the move is dead why not share now? Unless you think it will come to life again?

Quote: darkoz

Unless the "Valley" is located in New York I am not sure what about a NY AP move the Wizard could exploit

At any rate I moved on from that move years ago and to my knowledge that move is dead as well

At some point I will divulge how it worked.

Please don’t.

Quote: RS

Please don’t.

Yeah, based on what I strongly believe the method was, that might not be such a great idea. The basic premise of it would expose other similar plays that are still alive and well today. I am more in favor of sharing than most people here, and have been annoyed at the lack of sharing. But this one shouldn’t be publicly discussed, even though I suspect many people here know and have used/are using a similar technique anyway.

Quote: Wizard

Besides the chips in the dice theory, how does the machine know what sides the dice landed on?

Dead simple. Camera over top gives an image. Image is compared to one of six patterns for each dice. How many degrees the image is rotated doesn't matter. A computer can rotate and match a few thousand times before you can blink.

Quote: charliepatrick

fyi this site doesn't work in the EU (c.f. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44248448 - I think there are a fair number of US sites, that due to the recent General Data Protection Regulation in the EU, have yet to be updated to work here.)

according to this article

"When the time to place bets is up, the “floor” on which two large dice sit under a glass dome in the center of the table begins to shake, tossing the dice for a pre-determined time. Once the dice land flat, radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology “reads” the values on the dice, calculates any payments based on the pay table and awards winning wagers.

RFID uses electromagnetic fields to identify and automatically track electronically stored data attached to the dice."

Quote: cowboy

Dead simple. Camera over top gives an image. Image is compared to one of six patterns for each dice. How many degrees the image is rotated doesn't matter. A computer can rotate and match a few thousand times before you can blink.

How feasible is that though to be implemented? I’ve played a machine or two where the camera doesn’t seem to be working, because it shows it in the player’s terminal. Granted, that could just mean that communication link is faulty or perhaps disabled for whatever reason. But that, to me, doesn’t seem like the best way capture the data.

I have no idea how it works, but I never thought it was the camera that does it. Maybe it does. Idk, I’m not a science rocket for a reason.

Quote: darkoz

Zcore

As Wiz will attest I was doing what I refer to in other posts as my NY AP move (which I have yet to reveal here except to a few like the Wiz)

I was doing this move for approximately 5-6 hours a day at bubble craps

So yes I observed her for an entire week. Approximately 40 plus gaming hours in my estimation

So the so-called "NY AP Move" is just play a craps machine with an advantage? Seems that it would be similar (if not nearly identical) to doing the same thing in NV.

We have already seen proof that there are magnets in the dice, so wouldn't that eliminate the need for computer chips

Quote: TomG

So the so-called "NY AP Move" is just play a craps machine with an advantage? Seems that it would be similar (if not nearly identical) to doing the same thing in NV.

It was more complicated than just playing craps

It was taking advantage of limitations created due to a stringent NYS law