billryan
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May 24th, 2023 at 7:13:58 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: odiousgambit

what the house is clever about is short-paying the players,


have you yourself been cheated by means of a short pay - and how many times____? - and did you correct them and then get the correct payout_____? - and how did the employee making the payouts react to that________?

have you seen others cheated by short pay - how often_____?

thanks

.
link to original post



Casinos short-pay every winning bet. Even in craps, you only get correct odds on a portion of your bet. Casinos don't make their money off players losing bets. The real money is in skimming a fraction off of every winning bet.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
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May 24th, 2023 at 7:42:27 AM permalink
okay, when he posted "short pay" I thought he meant they were paying less than what they were supposed to - cheating

I don't consider paying less than true odds to be "clever"

I would think that just about every player is aware of that

.
Please don't feed the trolls
odiousgambit
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May 24th, 2023 at 7:49:15 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: odiousgambit

what the house is clever about is short-paying the players,


have you yourself been cheated by means of a short pay - and how many times____? - and did you correct them and then get the correct payout_____? - and how did the employee making the payouts react to that________?

have you seen others cheated by short pay - how often_____?

thanks

.
link to original post

I made a mistake assuming everyone was going to know what I meant. The paytables are based on paying less than fair odds, as we all know. So there was a thing going around i thought everyone saw about this being the house short-paying us. It is an expression that knocks what they do as a matter of totally transparent practice
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
pwcrabb
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May 24th, 2023 at 10:24:48 AM permalink
The original poster is not a native speakerr/writer of English. My impression is East Asian source, judging by the patten of fractured syntax. I suspect that the post was intended to demoralize rather than inform.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
odiousgambit
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May 24th, 2023 at 1:21:31 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: billryan


Lets review.
1) You KNOW the casino is cheating.
2) No one was betting #5 so the casino rigged it to come in nine times in a row.
3) Knowing the casino was cheating and that they were going to have the ball land on the #5, you did what?
link to original post



Quote: odiousgambit

evidently no one was even on the Pass line or nine 5s in a row would have been sweet!


okay, let's review
if everybody started betting the #5 after it came 5 times in a row then the casino cheaters thru remote control would have switched it so the # 9 starts coming out a lot of times in a row to tease the players and infuriate them (if nobody was betting on the #9)

if they had been betting pass (come) the casino thru remote control would have made them seven out every time

it's quite obvious - the casinos have mastered technology that even the NSA or the CIA doesn't know about -

Casino Executives are just about the smartest people in the whole world - very few are aware of that - I'm revealing it here for the first time

because they can do this stuff and nobody can really figure out exactly how they are doing it - amazing - I wonder if investigative journalism will ever find out how they do it and expose their nefarious doings

.
link to original post

just for the record, I mistook you for the [recent] OP and thought you were serious.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizard
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May 24th, 2023 at 7:37:08 PM permalink
Quote: CasinoReviews

Where Casinos are cheating using remote controlled dice to decide who are the winners and looser.
link to original post



What is your evidence?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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May 24th, 2023 at 7:40:10 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

okay, let's review
if everybody started betting the #5 after it came 5 times in a row then the casino cheaters thru remote control would have switched it so the # 9 starts coming out a lot of times in a row to tease the players and infuriate them (if nobody was betting on the #9).
link to original post



These remote controlled dice might explain Alan's 18 yo's in a row.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pwcrabb
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May 24th, 2023 at 8:43:01 PM permalink
CasinoReviews, the OP, may be delighted that his critics are engaging his assertions at the level of evidence and logic. His critics are focusing on the trees in an intellectually honest manner, and in so doing they are missing the forest. Subversion of the culture includes within its toolkit the sowing of popular distrust of institutions. Propaganda does not rely upon truth for its effectiveness.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
odiousgambit
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May 25th, 2023 at 3:40:03 AM permalink
Maybe I'll be impish and instead of dissing the idea that dice can be manipulated by the casino, relate an incidence supporting that instead. How about that?

I often find myself thinking about something that happened months or years ago and realize that what I originally thought was wrong, or that there was something about it that got dismissed and now I’m really focusing on it. In this case it’s the latter. And what I think is remarkable is that it hasn’t been a topic of conversation anywhere anyhow as far as I can tell.

Doc and I were playing Craps at the Cherokee casino in NC in May 2021. As a lark we decided to play Craps at the only $5 table, just to say we did something different. It was a special 'Roll to Win' Craps set up. This had a non-felt top that I think read the dice results through glass or something similar; dice that were thrown by the players. There was only one dealer, and he was very occupied, hardly paying attention to the dice himself. He didn’t need to keep track of the chips, or pay bets and take losers, the betting was done on a computer terminal with TITO, but whatever he was doing himself kept him busy, no attention to the throws till he needed to scoop up the dice.

Now what got me thinking about this again was when someone was relating cheating by sliding the dice. All of a sudden it just hit me how easy it seems it would be to slide the dice on this guy!

Only it seems they thought of this! To be honest I didn’t pay as much attention, going through the usual learning curve trying to use a terminal to make my bets. But Doc definitely was a little disturbed about something … the dice were getting an extra randomizing treatment it seems, either that or our eyes deceived us.

This is how he described what he saw, putting it in a comment to a blogpost I made about the visit,

Quote: Doc

I think it was related to the material surface of that video display. OG called it glass, but it may be an acrylic or some such thing. When I was tossing the dice, I was throwing them probably six feet (horizontally) in the air. One time when they hit, they just plain stopped, "bouncing" just three or four inches each. That shocked me -- is was as if they landed on glue or something. On another toss, when the dice hit the surface, they both bounced directly to the left, a ninety degree turn with a first hop 3/4 of the way across the table. I know I wasn't putting that much "spin" on them, so I don't know what was up. I don't think it had anything to do with an impropriety in the game, just an odd combination of friction and elasticity that gave unexpected results



Make of that what you will, and I think it was not a case of the casino cheating, but a necessary [if non-transparent] extra randomizing of the dice. At least that would make sense since just a smooth top like that would allow about anybody to slide dice. Doc thought it might be “just an odd combination of friction and elasticity” but now I’m definitely thinking otherwise. That doesn't fit with this description of what happened. And, yes, you have to admit it would be possible for someone remotely to be observing how much money was on “5” , say, and press a button if he needed to. You could imagine … no, I don’t think so at all… but you could imagine that the guy was glued to a camera and a computer analyzed situation telling him to get a different result. If I can imagine it, the game designer can imagine it … and so would many a player imagine it. I guess that kind of player just decides to 'not walk, run' to a real table. We don’t seem to hear the accusation that the casino is cheating. To be clear, neither am I.

Just saying.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
billryan
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May 25th, 2023 at 6:00:59 AM permalink
I saw further proof the other night playing Chutes and Ladders. I needed a five to win on three occasions but got a three. This damn threes caused me to land on #97, a chute that sends you all the way back to the second level. What kind of game teases you with victory and then sends you nearly all the way back to the beginning?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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May 25th, 2023 at 6:17:59 AM permalink
Quote: CasinoReviews

I have requested the casinos to generate backup of the security video and requested for full refund my money. Analyzing security video will clearly show that I was targeted by these casinos to lose.

]

This would be interesting, but how can the security video show this?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gordonm888
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May 25th, 2023 at 9:54:11 AM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

CasinoReviews, the OP, may be delighted that his critics are engaging his assertions at the level of evidence and logic. His critics are focusing on the trees in an intellectually honest manner, and in so doing they are missing the forest. Subversion of the culture includes within its toolkit the sowing of popular distrust of institutions. Propaganda does not rely upon truth for its effectiveness.
link to original post



The world is what it is and we are who we are. A lot of institutions deserve to be distrusted, and in general an eyes-wide-open skepticism might be the informed choice of an intelligent on-looker. Posting about speculation that you think is untruthful (or otherwise disagree with) does not necessarily qualify said speculation as "propaganda."
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
BillHasRetired
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May 25th, 2023 at 10:15:15 AM permalink
One of the curious things about the OP's original complaint is his assertion that he cannot post his evidence. Why is that? The name of the casino can be anonymized, even the state/country can be obscured. Even if one used illegal means to gather the evidence, that can be obscured. What actual barrier exists to publication? There may be no evidence. or the OP may be lying about having it, or the OP is worried about leg-breakers coming his way, or something larger than the issue requires there be no proof (like the psyop about cultural destruction earlier) I cannot imagine a bona-fide case where evidence of cheating cannot be presented here in a way that avoids libel.

So how 'bout it, OP? As AxelWolf said, "Put up, or shut up."
vegas
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May 25th, 2023 at 3:49:30 PM permalink
He has shut up since June 17, 2016. Seven years now and counting
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
Ace2
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May 25th, 2023 at 4:21:58 PM permalink
Short paying also speeds up the game.

Imagine betting red in double-zero roulette and having to make bets in multiples of $9 since wins pay 10 to 9
It’s all about making that GTA
Ace2
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May 25th, 2023 at 4:25:20 PM permalink
Quote: billryan


Casinos short-pay every winning bet. Even in craps, you only get correct odds on a portion of your bet. Casinos don't make their money off players losing bets. The real money is in skimming a fraction off of every winning bet.
link to original post

Ive read that some video poker games pay out over 100%. Single deck blackjack, 3:2, dealer stays on s17 also pays out more than 100%

Most not every
It’s all about making that GTA
billryan
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May 25th, 2023 at 5:34:32 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Quote: billryan


Casinos short-pay every winning bet. Even in craps, you only get correct odds on a portion of your bet. Casinos don't make their money off players losing bets. The real money is in skimming a fraction off of every winning bet.
link to original post

Ive read that some video poker games pay out over 100%. Single deck blackjack, 3:2, dealer stays on s17 also pays out more than 100%

Most not every
link to original post



SD BJ does not pay more than 100%, unless BJ pays 2-1 or Split Aces can pay 3-2. Those rules don't exist anywhere I know of.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Ace2
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May 25th, 2023 at 6:53:49 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: Ace2

Quote: billryan


Casinos short-pay every winning bet. Even in craps, you only get correct odds on a portion of your bet. Casinos don't make their money off players losing bets. The real money is in skimming a fraction off of every winning bet.
link to original post

Ive read that some video poker games pay out over 100%. Single deck blackjack, 3:2, dealer stays on s17 also pays out more than 100%

Most not every
link to original post



SD BJ does not pay more than 100%, unless BJ pays 2-1 or Split Aces can pay 3-2. Those rules don't exist anywhere I know of.
link to original post

This calculator gives a player advantage of 0.18% for single deck, 3:2 on natural only, dealer stands on soft 17.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

Compared to 6-deck game, single deck reduces the edge by about 0.6%, bringing most 3:2 games to about zero edge. Then add another 0.2% in players favor for dealer stands on S17.

2:1 is worth about 2.5%, so on a 6-deck the player would have about a 2% advantage

All assuming basic strategy of course
Last edited by: Ace2 on May 25, 2023
It’s all about making that GTA
billryan
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May 26th, 2023 at 5:53:38 AM permalink
All the sources I look at say the best rules give the house a .00018 edge, so I'm not sure what rules you are applying. Can you find a casino that offers the rules you used? Even then, a player must be an expert in basic strategy to get those numbers, and few are.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Ace2
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May 26th, 2023 at 9:49:18 AM permalink
The link shows the Wizard’s calculator and rules. Single deck is worth a lot…about 0.6%. You could do even better than the 0.18% player advantage if surrender and resplit/hit aces are allowed…0.37%

Admittedly, single deck 3:2 would be hard to find in the current era.

Anyone with an IQ over 80 could become an “expert at basic strategy” in less than an hour. It’s very easy
It’s all about making that GTA
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