Can You Be Banned for Dice Control? Have Casinos Done This?

Quote: 24Bingo

At 147, just seven short of the record, he wouldn't have been able to keep it secret, because the house would have put it out. On what planet would they not try to capitalize on a table that "hot"?

SN Ethier Doctrine of Chances book (2010 pgs 522-523)

"The longest recorded hand in craps history is 154 rolls, having occurred
to Patricia DeMauro on May 23, 2009, at the Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa in
Atlantic City, over the course of four hours and 18 minutes. The probability
that a random hand lasts at least this long is, from (15.23),
t(154) ≈ 0.178882426 · 10⁻⁹, (15.52)
which amounts to one chance in 5.59 billion, approximately.

The record was previously held by Stanley Fujitake [1923–2000] (118 rolls,
May 28, 1989, California Hotel and Casino, Las Vegas). One might ask how
reliable these numbers (154 and 118) are. In Mr. Fujitake’s case, casino personnel
replayed the surveillance videotape to confirm the number of rolls and
the duration of time (three hours and six minutes). See Akane (2008).

There is also a report (Scoblete 2007, Part 4) that Fujitake’s record was
broken earlier by a gentleman known only as the Captain [1923–] (148 rolls,
July 2005, Atlantic City, two hours and 18 minutes), although the documentation
is sparse, and the credibility of this story has been questioned by
Grosjean (2009, p. 480).
The DeMauro incident motivated Ethier and Hoppe (2010) to find a
closed-form expression for t(n) := P(L ≥ n):"

I was in AC many times in 2007-08 (lived in Berlin, NH)
and found no Box or Dealer that even knew of a Captain and this fantastic hand.
It was very disappointing.

This was long enough ago that it was the record? A casino watched a shooter break the world record, and just let him walk out the door while the tapes slid down toward the circular file? Jesus Christ. Frank'll be trying to convince us of Nessie next.

I was never "up" on craps records, but a couple of years ago at Caesars I was told that two young guys who never played craps before were at a table during a Saturday afternoon -- by themselves -- when the casino was close to "empty" because it was a beautiful sunny day and the pool was jamed... and one of these guys held the dice for four and a half hours. Let me repeat: four and a half hours. And the story goes that since they were young and didnt play they just had $10 on the passline each.

Now, I have no way in the world to verify that.

When I was told it happened, after the fact, all I could say was darn, had I been at the table I would have made a million dollars!

Anyway, I put it here just in case someone else might have heard the story???

The pit boss who told me about it has since retired and I don't know who the dealers were. It could have been a 100% fabrication. I don't know. Because frankly, I don't keep track of "records."

I was at one of Frank's seminars years ago when it was rumored the identity of the Captain would be revealed or even that he might show up... but alas.... no.

Quote: FrankScoblete

Or he existed but I exaggerated his craps prowess and that roll was shorter than I said it was
(I did keep an accurate record using chips

I keep very accurate dice roll data too.
I am always laughed at for it, players and some dealers, but funny how many ask me questions about their rolls.
I have the closer truth than chips and memory.
I use a 4 colored pen and small notepad.
Sometime a printout sheet and a small clipboard that fits in my fanny pack.

I do make mistakes every now and then.
We all do. If anything, my errors were not the actual number that rolled but how it rolled.
They are always the hardways. Sometimes I just did not hear or see the dice roll and no one had a hardway bet paid.

In most exciting events at a Craps table, this is from playing and dealing the game for years,
it is well known that time is not the same at a Craps table as it is away from a Craps table
and the order of the events seem to get mixed up easily.
Most stick changes seem to happen way too soon to be only 20 minutes, the minutes when winning go by very fast.

For those, like me, that track the rolls of each session on paper, 2 thumbs up
For those that do not - and that is your choice - only one thumb down.

finally
Good Luck

Hi 24Bingo:

You have a protection of privacy. Casinos cannot reveal to the public what a player makes or loses or did in the casino without the player's permission. When the Captain's record was broken by Pat DeMauro she had to sign disclosure papers for them to publicize her achievement (Pat is an extremely nice woman). If you read the roll of the Captain's you will see why the Captain had no worries about the casino publicizing his name or the event. I wrote about the event but did not mention the casino or how much the Captain (or I) won.

Frank

Quote: MrV

Ahigh, since you asked I will endeavor to dispel your ignorance; normally I would not post such crudity, but you have insisted, so here goes.
Imagine Boy Scouts are at the Jamboree, and it is raining and oh, so boring. Imagine how someone comes up with the idea to drop trou, sit in a circle, beat off simultaneously and then annoint as "winner" he who comes first.

That's dice setting.

Funny, but that description doesn't sound at all like dice setting (the mere act of arranging dice). It doesn't even come close to resembling dice influencing (which usually involves a solitary player trying to get an edge in the game of craps).

However, that scenario almost exactly matches the masterbatory frenzy perpetrated by a particular group of members on this site, when they gang-up on an individual poster who offers facts or ideas that contradict their narrow opinion.

Quote: 24Bingo

This was long enough ago that it was the record? A casino watched a shooter break the world record, and just let him walk out the door while the tapes slid down toward the circular file?

It was well known in Reno in the 1990s
that the world record was from a downtown las vegas casino by a Hawaiian man known as "The Arm".

The Harold's Club, (I have an old craps layout from there used at Casino Night parties these days)
now a parking lot I think - they closed in 1995 and sat vacant until Harrah's bought the building,
tracked the rolls of each shooter.
The man that taught me to deal dice also worked there for years
and I think the record he told me there was 106 or 107 and it happened during his shift.
I knew many in the casino business in Reno and they knew of the local record.

I wonder what the record is at the Fremont downtown Vegas
as they also track the shooters rolls too on an electronic display as many know.

Quote: FrankScoblete

I do get a feeling that whatever I write can be used against me. I wish we had a "Miranda Warning" --- Frank, whatever you write will be held against you...Over the years some people have discounted the existence of the Captain because I have never revealed his name or told where he had his 147-roll hand. The judgment of such individuals was that he didn't exist and the roll never happened. Or he existed but I exaggerated his craps prowess and that roll was shorter than I said it was (I did keep an accurate record using chips and he did win what to many of us would be a fortune). Here again, a thought: This is the guy who did these things but did not want to be famous for them or take credit for them but was nice enough to teach me his ideas. He is the shining light for people who criticize those of us who enjoy spreading the word under our own names. If I hadn't written about him, then he would not have existed for anyone except the group of people who knew him. So I think he should be held up as the shining example for those who think that anyone who is successful at gambling should keep their mouths shut.

Well then, if as you say "he should be held up as the shining example:" why not identify him?

If a Gambling God has walked among us, how can he be deified without his name and image being known?

You reported that he died in 2010; surely the probate of his estate is complete and his final affairs have been settled: where is there a downside in identifying him?

With identifying information, sleuths / skeptics can attempt to independently verify your claims, to perhaps dispel the speculation that you made it all up in order to have something to write about in your books.

You say he didn't want to be famous: fair enough, but the man is long dead.

You've identified his crew members, so why not identify him?

You've built The Captain of Craps up as a Gambling God, a larger than life wealthy businessman who made more than (IIRC) a ten million profit over the years from craps; you say that he came up with the 5 count, induced AC casinos to raise the buy limit on the 9, and that he held the world record of 147 rolls without sevening out.

You claim you were with him when it happened, so clearly you could tell the world where, when, and who was involved: your notes of the event appear detailed and copious.

History demands objective information: anecdotes prove nothing.

Quote: tupp

Funny, but that description doesn't sound at all like dice setting (the mere act of arranging dice). It doesn't even come close to resembling dice influencing (which usually involves a solitary player trying to get an edge in the game of craps).

However, that scenario almost exactly matches the masterbatory frenzy perpetrated by a particular group of members on this site, when they gang-up on an individual poster who offers facts or ideas that contradict their narrow opinion.

Right. Then in the following post, Frank writes this:

Quote: FrankScoblete

writing on a truly great web site board such as this is a part of one of the projects.

Yeah, it's great. It's great how comments like the "Circle Jerk" comments from MrV and Sodawater don't count as name calling.

It's great how the Wizard completely ignores very nearly every single post I make.

It's great how Frank shows up and the Wizard is all of a sudden interested in dice.

It's great how Frank himself hasn't even said one positive comment about what I've done.

It's great how Frank thinks Alan and EvenBob are super duper.

Just great.

All of a sudden I just think everything is great!

Not just great but TRULY great, this website.

What's the difference between Ahigh and a puppy?

Eventually, the puppy will stop whining.

LOL I'm actually starting to feel bad for Ahigh. I think he might be having a mental breakdown.

ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

Yeah, it's great. It's great how comments like the "Circle Jerk" comments from MrV and Sodawater don't count as name calling.

I thought it meant this:“a pointless group endeavor”

I guess it really does have many meanings
Like Please, Please Me

About
“Circle Jerk” is a slang term referring to the positive feedback loop that can occur
when ideas and beliefs are reinforced within a group or subculture’s enclosed space.
The phenomenon is typically observed on websites that consists of self-contained forums for specific interests or subcultures.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/circle-jerk

Quote: Ahigh

It's great how Frank shows up and the Wizard is all of a sudden interested in dice.

Huh?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/7093-wong-and-dice-control/

I remember back then emailing FrankS about that thread.
He said he was not interested in getting involved.
he was very nice in his email to me and did mention a few of his books

I dare anyone to do a google image search on circle jerk without filtering the results.

It's disgusting. And it's revolting to me that that term is allowed to describe those who believe in advantage play craps.

Not surprising, mind you, just disgusting.

I'm assuming by the lack of response from the moderators, that it's okay to refer to people as being a member of such a group.

As far as Frank, you can blame me for him showing up here. I made a statement that I had no evidence that axis control was possible, and I suspect that he may have sniffed his way to my posting here using Google.

Quote: Zcore13

LOL I'm actually starting to feel bad for Ahigh. I think he might be having a mental breakdown.

Certainly stress that not even the handful of acolytes can help raise the much-sought-for hosannas. Not even after the series of self-proclamations.

Quote: Ahigh

I dare anyone to do a google image search on circle jerk without filtering the results.

It's disgusting. And it's revolting to me that that term is allowed to describe those who believe in advantage play craps.

Not surprising, mind you, just disgusting.

I'm assuming by the lack of response from the moderators, that it's okay to refer to people as being a member of such a group.

As far as Frank, you can blame me for him showing up here. I made a statement that I had no evidence that axis control was possible, and I suspect that he may have sniffed his way to my posting here using Google.

There's a side bet in Blackjack called "Perfect Pairs". I dare you to do a google image search and "Perfect Pairs" without filtering the results. It's not all that disgusting, but it's about the same in relevency. Circle Jerk is just about as offensive as poo poo head. Now if I used a different term for each, one could definitely be offended with those terms. You're really grasping at straws and for attention lately. I think you need a break.

ZCore13

It is usually easy to congratulate people who agree with you. Ahigh I really don't know you or anything about you but we seem to agree that dice control is real. Praising you is an easy matter. Obviously, anyone who agrees with me deserves great praise or, from your side, anyone who agrees with you deserves great praise.

I find that people who disagree with me can do it in two ways. They can get all puffy, throw out insults, get sarcastic or really low and these folks I tend to ignore.

However, when someone comes along who disagrees with me, makes a great argument, is personable and has no desire to get in the gutter, these people I have respect for. I have no problem telling them that I respect them. I have no problem with those who disagree with me. The Wizard disagrees with me. I have nothing but respect for him. Wong used to disagree with me. I have nothing but respect for him.

By way of analogy. Although I am somewhat liberal in my social views, I tend to be quite conservative in most matters. One of my best friends is so far left I don't know if she has a right arm. She writes for the Washington Post. We have been friends for over 40 years and we tend to disagree on most things. But I truly love this woman and have nothing but respect for her.

Quote: Ahigh

It's great how the Wizard completely ignores very nearly every single post I make.

It's great how Frank shows up and the Wizard is all of a sudden interested in dice.

It's great how Frank himself hasn't even said one positive comment about what I've done.
.

Everything should be about MEEEEEEEE..... I'm the important
dice person here, what about MEEEEEEEE....

God god, Ahigh, get a grip.. You're 44, not 14. People are
respected for who they are, not for who they think they are.

Quote: EvenBob

[ A post by EvenBob has been blocked due to your settings | Show it to me anyway | View members I have blocked ]

10139 and counting.

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: EvenBob

[ A post by EvenBob has been blocked due to your settings | Show it to me anyway | View members I have blocked ]

10139 and counting.

MEEEEEEE, its about MEEEEEEEE....

Quote: Ahigh

It's disgusting. And it's revolting to me that that term is allowed to describe those who believe in advantage play craps.

I am not saying that dice setters are jerk offs.

I AM saying that the "us against the world" mentality of dice setters (or DIs) is akin to a "circle jerk," or "Jonestown" or even "That Old Time Religion."

I take umbrage with the idea, not necessarily with those who espouse it.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: EvenBob

[ A post by EvenBob has been blocked due to your settings | Show it to me anyway | View members I have blocked ]

10139 and counting.

MEEEEEEE, its about MEEEEEEEE....

Don't worry, you're the winner, Bob. You are super.

Quote: Ahigh

Don't worry, you're the winner, Bob. You are super.

This is true, but I didn't know there was a contest. Let me
know next time.

Quote: Ahigh

I dare anyone to do a google image search on circle jerk without filtering the results.

It's disgusting. And it's revolting to me that that term is allowed to describe those who believe in advantage play craps.

It's a very common metaphor for something seen as both intellectually masturbatory and yet intellectually deindividuated. I don't think anyone else would take it personally, and it's not really to be taken literally.

Quote: 24Bingo

It's a very common metaphor for something seen as both intellectually masturbatory and yet intellectually deindividuated. I don't think anyone else would take it personally, and it's not really to be taken literally.

I've heard the term for at least 40 years. It might
have started in the military. Its a metaphor for
a group of people wasting their
time. A circle jerk accomplishes nothing, its an
excercise in futility. When you say it, people
immediately know what you mean. Except Ahigh,
who was apparently raised on an Amish farm.

To insure dice randomness these are the requirements :
1) dice must hit the opposite wall at a sharp angle , no " banging" or anything which slows the dice is allowed .
2)dice should not fly higher than the eye level of a sitting boxman .
3) dice should roll back , meaning enough force has been used .
4)both dice must hit the back wall
5) setting the dice is illegal .
"House can ban anyone from playing who does not follow these rules .

The answer is yes..... and no



I have been asked not to play in several casino's for setting the dice and throwing
them in a consistant way. They dont say you as an individual would be banned, you
just cant set the dice, or you can set the dice but you have to hit the back wall
harder, and harder and harder...etc. If you just pick up the dice and throw them, you
can play.

They can just make it not any fun at all to play.

In the end it is their casino, so all you can do is be nice and leave. I try to do that,
except one time, the Trop in Laughlin, that guy there is a jerk, and the guy above
him is a jerk.

Dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

They can just make it not any fun at all to play.

That is your opinion.

Just playing the game, even if in accordance with the casino's rules, is fun for me.

But then I don't really put much faith at all in DI, as I feel we are all rng's.

For me, the fun is trying to beat the odds, to have a bit of luck.

That's enough.

But sure, I would just LOVE to influence the dice.

I'd also love to fly like superman, and I'd really love to be immortal.

We can all wish.

Any casino can ban you for any reason they feel like here in NV, I’ve been banned from two casinos. Also, threatened to be banned by a few of them. Most casinos will just take the dice off you and not let you shoot, you can still play craps if they have a problem with your shooting. Here in Las Vegas it’s not uncommon to see a casino ban someone that is a DI and is winning too often, one of by buddies was banned not to long ago for just being what I called stupid, he wouldn’t listen and was on a winning streak, we told him to stay out of that casino, that they would ban him, but greed got in his way!

I learned the hard way about being banned, if you are hitting one casino to often and winning that will happen. There are somewhere around 300 tables here in Vegas, so you need to move your play around. Casinos are not your ATM’s, some players do go on long winning streaks. Don’t be stupid about your play, move on to the next casino!

I’ve see a stupid casino even ban a don’t player that never picked up the dice, and one lucky slot player that was just getting lucky to often!

One of our great fiction writers on becoming a DI, is always writing that DI’s in Canada get no heat, up there, which I found out to be a lie, when I was playing there, in Fallsvew Casino. A craps player came into their high roller room, the Salon Privé all the dealers were asking him were he had been and he told them he was banned from playing there, but they had gotten rid of the suit that banned him and now he could come back in a play.

All the dealers and other players loved this guy, because of the way he tipped them. Most of the time it all comes down to one stupid suit that is sweating the money, that is one of the reasons anybody is banned at playing craps. When they leave the player returns if they have not been read a trespassing act here in Las Vegas.

Now the funny part of when I was banned at one of the casinos,.. was the suit was going to read me the trespassing act, but couldn’t because I took care of their elevators and worked there everyday. I would play after work and he didn’t realize I was their elevator mechanic. The head engineer for the casino was called and he put a stop to the trespassing act.
When they ended up firing the suit, I could play craps back in there again. I had a long talk with the table games manager about how this suit was treating all of their players if they were just getting lucky and winning, but they would not back down on be being banned, until he was fired!

On the craps board that I help out on,.. I recommend that everybody reads “Whale Hunt In the Desert By Deke Castleman” it’s a free board that we have book reviews on about the game of craps and anything to do with running casinos.

http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/about930.html

I will have them open up the book review forum for one week so you can read any of the reviews there. Normally you would have to be a member to read the reviews. There are some threads that you can read in the preview of the board, that are always open but you can not post to them, if you are not a member!

...

This has been an eye opener of a thread for me as a working dice dealer. While I've been aware of the DC phenomenon for years, ( I believe Mr. Scoblete held some Golden Touch seminars here in Reno in times past), I have yet to witness a consistent ability to effect the outcome regularly...maybe I haven't run into the elite so far, I don't know. I DO know that if I tell a shooter to get a bounce off the felt and off the back wall and those instructions are ignored, those shooting privileges will be lifted and he'll no longer be able to shoot. He'll be more than welcome to continue playing though. My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo, and I think most experienced, non-DC players feel the same way.

Quote: rudeboy99

My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo,

Exactly. The same thing happens in midi-bac, where they
let the big player mutilate the cards. Why do this, all it
does is slow the game to a crawl.

Quote: rudeboy99

This has been an eye opener of a thread for me as a working dice dealer. While I've been aware of the DC phenomenon for years, ( I believe Mr. Scoblete held some Golden Touch seminars here in Reno in times past), I have yet to witness a consistent ability to effect the outcome regularly...maybe I haven't run into the elite so far, I don't know. I DO know that if I tell a shooter to get a bounce off the felt and off the back wall and those instructions are ignored, those shooting privileges will be lifted and he'll no longer be able to shoot. He'll be more than welcome to continue playing though. My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo, and I think most experienced, non-DC players feel the same way.

THANKS for the feedback from someone in the game.

Quote: rudeboy99

This has been an eye opener of a thread for me as a working dice dealer. While I've been aware of the DC phenomenon for years, ( I believe Mr. Scoblete held some Golden Touch seminars here in Reno in times past), I have yet to witness a consistent ability to effect the outcome regularly...maybe I haven't run into the elite so far, I don't know. I DO know that if I tell a shooter to get a bounce off the felt and off the back wall and those instructions are ignored, those shooting privileges will be lifted and he'll no longer be able to shoot. He'll be more than welcome to continue playing though. My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo, and I think most experienced, non-DC players feel the same way.

You are right on. There is no such thing as dice control on a legal shot. DI or DC should just be renamed AC for attempted cheating.

99.9% of craps players are just there to have fun and take their chances. The 0.01% that think they can set the dice and slow the game down or berate the staff should be asked to leave for the benefit of everyone else.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

You are right on. There is no such thing as dice control on a legal shot. DI or DC should just be renamed AC for attempted cheating.

99.9% of craps players are just there to have fun and take their chances. The 0.01% that think they can set the dice and slow the game down or berate the staff should be asked to leave for the benefit of everyone else.

ZCore13

You sure do write a lot of garbage. Can you believe this stuff he's writing?

How often do you even see a real craps table, Zcore?

For someone who is in the business of gambling, you sure do reveal your lack of knowledge on subjects related to craps!

I don't know anyone who has been 86'd for a legal shot. I've been 86'd from two casinos (Fiesta Properties here in Vegas) related to a counting device that I used. They listed me as a card counter in their notes according to my host (I've never played a single hand of blackjack at any stations properties).

South Point disallows me from shooting due to short rolls.

Casinos generally believe in controlled shooting for short rolls. They generally don't believe in controlled shooting for legal shots (those where both dice hit the back wall).

Zcore works for a casino. I don't think there is a craps table in the casino that Zcore works in.

Quote: Ahigh

You sure do write a lot of garbage. Can you believe this stuff he's writing?

How often do you even see a real craps table, Zcore?

For someone who is in the business of gambling, you sure do reveal your lack of knowledge on subjects related to craps!

I feel bad for you. I'll take my knowledge, experience and mental state over yours any day.

ZCore13

he we go....dice setting threads have caused a contraction in the GDP

Quote: Zcore13

I feel bad for you.

I don't believe you. I think you are writing lies. Maybe you believe them, but I still think you are a lying.

A casino can ban you, block you from playing, ask you to leave, keep you from shooting at any time and for any reason -- whether you try to influence the dice or not.

The position of the Nevada Gaming Commission is that SHOOTERS ARE ALLOWED TO TRY TO INFLUENCE, SET, AND CONTROL THE DICE as long as the following conditions are met:

1. The dice must fly in the air, off the table (to eliminated sliding)
2. The dice must bounce on the table surface at least once (to eliminate sliding)
3. The dice must hit the back wall

There is NO requirement that the dice must bounce off the back wall, or that the dice must bounce off the back wall any particular distance.

What I wrote above is how the NGC defines a "legal throw" and legal does not mean it is a written law, so you might want to use the term "acceptable throw."

BUT NOW COMES THE BIG CAVEAT:

Casinos are private businesses and if they don't want you setting, throwing, or betting they can ask you to leave and prohibit you from being there. So if a casino asks you not to set your dice -- you can't. If a casino asks that your dice must bounce off the back wall -- you have to do it.

I want to add this:

At NYNY they took the dice away from me because I was setting and winning even though my dice were bouncing all over the table. Just the act of setting and apparently winning was too much for them.

At MGM I was warned that if both dice don't hit the back wall EVEN ONCE the boxman is to take the dice away from me.

At Bellagio my dice were hitting the table and rolled softly so they came to rest against the back wall. But the table crew insisted that the dice must bounce off the back wall and when I argued with that it caused a big uproar. I won't rehash that story, but later management said the crew was wrong and just hitting the back wall was sufficient.

THE BOTTOM LINE

It doesn't matter what is a "legal" or "acceptable" throw or how the gaming regulators define it, because each house has its own rules anyway.

The most likely dice table to ban you is the table that is hurting the most financially.

They want stupid people at the table making prop bets and crap checks and hi-lo's. You can even get banned for just winning too much if you go full-on-10x odds and take $100,000 or more from a casino that has $1,000 limits. They say "we don't want your action."

They can't put you in jail for not hitting the back wall, as far as I know, even if you get paid.

Once you let go of those dice and they both fly through the air and bounce down on the table and even have a chance at hitting the back wall, you're going to get paid for that if you get a favorable outcome.

But they can and will ban anyone they don't want to play, here in Nevada. They didn't give me a reason for banning me at Fiesta. They said, "we are not comfortable with your play."

I had been making $300 bets (their max) prior to them saying this to me. They cater to people who bet hop bets over there and it's a $3 table. They didn't like me there is why I think they banned me, no matter what the details.

Quote: Zcore13

I'll take my knowledge, experience and mental state over yours any day.

Who offered mine to ya? Here's my proposal: why don't you stop posting about that which you do not understand? And I'm not sure what you're saying with regards to "mental state" but I take offense to that comment.

Quote: Ahigh

I don't believe you. I think you are writing lies. Maybe you believe them, but I still think you are a lying.

Prime example of how you operate in stating he is "lying", but you are not calling him a liar.

I am starting the clock!

Quote: Ahigh

The most likely dice table to ban you is the table that is hurting the most financially.

They want stupid people at the table making prop bets and crap checks and hi-lo's. You can even get banned for just winning too much if you go full-on-10x odds and take $100,000 or more from a casino that has $1,000 limits. They say "we don't want your action."

They can't put you in jail for not hitting the back wall, as far as I know, even if you get paid.

Once you let go of those dice and they both fly through the air and bounce down on the table and even have a chance at hitting the back wall, you're going to get paid for that if you get a favorable outcome.

But they can and will ban anyone they don't want to play, here in Nevada. They didn't give me a reason for banning me at Fiesta. They said, "we are not comfortable with your play."

I had been making $300 bets (their max) prior to them saying this to me. They cater to people who bet hop bets over there and it's a $3 table. They didn't like me there is why I think they banned me, no matter what the details.

That we can agree on, they probably didnt want that level of action and you described exactly who they want playing there. I agree not to read too much into that incident. But Alan makes good points as well in that it is their casino, their rules.

But none of that adds anything to the fantasy of Dice Control. But it also does nothing to prove if we really landed on the moon or not, or if GW Bush did actually set bombs in the Towers on 9/11. All three theories have their believers, yet most take them for what they really are.

Quote: Boz

Prime example of how you operate in stating he is "lying", but you are not calling him a liar.

I am starting the clock!

Prime example of him posting and then changing the content by editing after.

Tick tick tick tick...

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Prime example of him posting and then changing the content by editing after.

Tick tick tick tick...

ZCore13

That's because I fix my mistakes instead of boldly standing behind what are obviously mistakes.

If you were concerned with the accuracy of what you wrote, you might edit some things yourself.

Maybe there's a lesson in there for you.

Quote: Zcore13

There is no such thing as dice control on a legal shot.

This is an obviously false statement. I don't doubt that you believe what you wrote here. But any truth you might believe in this statement is hinged on the definition of both "legal shot" and "dice control."

A short roll must not be a legal shot? Or did you mean to say "allowable shot." Short rolls, in my view, are 100% legal and get paid EVERY SINGLE DAY, and they can in fact exhibit a player edge, and the casinos that actually have dice tables in them will readily admit this.

Your statement, in order to be true, implies that the instant someone performed dice control they would be breaking a law.

It's just hogwash and demonstrative of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Dice control, for it to exist, does not even have to be something that anyone is conscious of. I'm not sure you have contemplated this.

Just not believing in something (as you choose not to) does not make something non-existent.

Your thought process, which many others also have similar processes to this, are simply flawed.

Quote: Ahigh

That's because I fix my mistakes instead of boldly standing behind what are obviously mistakes.

If you were concerned with the accuracy of what you wrote, you might edit some things yourself.

Maybe there's a lesson in there for you.

You don't edit. You add and change content.

For all of your claims that everyone is wring and everyone always lies and all the time and money you have spent on control, what are you left with? Luck? Nice job.

ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

I don't believe you. I think you are writing lies. Maybe you believe them, but I still think you are a lying.

A lie has to be intentional.

If he believes what he writes, but is wrong, that's not lie. That's an incorrect belief. You would be incorrect therefore to think he is lying (but not lying about thinking he's lying, of course, just being incorrect).

Quote: Zcore13

You don't edit. You add and change content.

For all of your claims that everyone is wring and everyone always lies and all the time and money you have spent on control, what are you left with? Luck? Nice job.

ZCore13

On nearly every single post. It's not against the rules either and I offer no apologies for my doing it.

You are absolutely a critic of mine. You are critic without proper knowledge to be so critical as you are. I would encourage your criticism if it were more properly informed, but it isn't.

Quote: thecesspit

A lie has to be intentional.

If he believes what he writes, but is wrong, that's not lie. That's an incorrect belief. You would be incorrect therefore to think he is lying (but not lying about thinking he's lying, of course, just being incorrect).

http://painintheenglish.com/case/4779

I'm not so sure. I think that there may be intent to deceive regardless of his beliefs.

If he were more interested to know the truth he wouldn't be so combative with me.

Regardless of what he believes, his knowledge does not keep pace with his bold claims.

Quote: Ahigh

This is an obviously false statement. I don't doubt that you believe what you wrote here. But any truth you might believe in this statement is hinged on the definition of both "legal shot" and "dice control."

A short roll must not be a legal shot? Or did you mean to say "allowable shot." Short rolls, in my view, are 100% legal and get paid EVERY SINGLE DAY, and they can in fact exhibit a player edge, and the casinos that actually have dice tables in them will readily admit this.

Your statement, in order to be true, implies that the instant someone performed dice control they would be breaking a law.

It's just hogwash and demonstrative of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Dice control, for it to exist, does not even have to be something that anyone is conscious of. I'm not sure you have contemplated this.

Just not believing in something (as you choose not to) does not make something non-existent.

Your thought process, which many others also have similar processes to this, are simply flawed.

You really should learn the game. Short rolls are not a legal shot. They might be allowed sometimes, just like driving over the speed limit, but neither is legal. It's too bad you lose so much money on a game you you can't seem to understand. Casinos love your type.

ZCore13