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Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 17th, 2013 at 1:31:08 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

They love you because they have your number. They
know you're somebody who fancies himself a dice
manipulator and you amuse them. They let you do
what you do until you either bother them by winning,
or bother them with slow play. Then they get rid of
you for awhile. Its really that simple.

Never think they respect you or they're your friends.
To them you're just another oddball character who thinks
he can get one over on their casino.



This is more true than you think. I love "counters" and "AP" players and would love dice influencers and manipulators just as much. If I had a craps table I would have a comp room waiting for Harley and Ahigh. For every one decent "professional gambler" there are hundreds of thousands that put a smile on my face. I have one guy that comes in almost every day. He buys in for $100 and get's $20 in white chips. he then holds the white chips in his hand under the table and adjusts them back and forth based on whatever count he is using. Almost every day he leaves with little or nothing. The fun part is watching him try and be sneaky about it and him thinking he's pulling a fast one.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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March 17th, 2013 at 1:31:23 PM permalink
I consider myself a pretty good dice controller.
Very few of them ever leave the table, and
every one of them has been found.
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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March 17th, 2013 at 1:38:12 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

For some reason I don't have this craps thread blocked yet. Before I do, I'll share a story about how to beat the game of craps.

While walking through the casino yesterday, I stopped by the craps table to see what all the fuss was about. The dealer said it was ok if I just wanted to watch. I stood back a little bit and watched the action. There was lots of fun and the guy next to me was making a killing. After 10 or 15 minutes, I got bored and decided to walk away. The guy playing next to me stopped me and said he was down to $40 when I showed up and now he has over $400. He wanted me to stay standing in the same place because he was supersticious. He said he would make it worth my time. I had no where to be so I just stood there and continued to sip my beer. A few rolls later the shooter 7'd out. This guy, who was very nice and gave me a mini craps lesson, turns to thank me and gives me 4 red chips (Score! paid my bus for the weekend).



this works even better if youre an attractive woman. many of my female friends have been tipped green chips just for standing at a crap table
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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March 17th, 2013 at 1:39:30 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

This is more true than you think. I love "counters" and "AP" players and would love dice influencers and manipulators just as much. If I had a craps table I would have a comp room waiting for Harley and Ahigh. For every one decent "professional gambler" there are hundreds of thousands that put a smile on my face. I have one guy that comes in almost every day. He buys in for $100 and get's $20 in white chips. he then holds the white chips in his hand under the table and adjusts them back and forth based on whatever count he is using. Almost every day he leaves with little or nothing. The fun part is watching him try and be sneaky about it and him thinking he's pulling a fast one.

ZCore13



that is hilarious... the guy can't remember a number between 0 and 20 in his head? if you can't remember a 2-digit number, you are not ready for the world of advantage casino play
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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March 17th, 2013 at 1:48:52 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

This is more true than you think. I love "counters" and "AP" players and would love dice influencers and manipulators just as much. If I had a craps table I would have a comp room waiting for Harley and Ahigh. For every one decent "professional gambler" there are hundreds of thousands that put a smile on my face. I have one guy that comes in almost every day. He buys in for $100 and get's $20 in white chips. he then holds the white chips in his hand under the table and adjusts them back and forth based on whatever count he is using. Almost every day he leaves with little or nothing. The fun part is watching him try and be sneaky about it and him thinking he's pulling a fast one.

That's funny,
You thought I was trying to count cards,
I was only trying to count up my hand.

thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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March 17th, 2013 at 3:34:17 PM permalink
Quote:

But go up and look at that Ustream video and tell me I had a ton of sevens, but two of those short rolls that were both hard eights back to back (the heaviest outcome from my theoretically biased throw) and tell me that there's not more influence on those two rolls than the other rolls in that video.



But thats what I am saying. There may be throws with 'more' influence than others, but you can't choose them after the fact as evidence. You can include in your models that you know X% of the time you get some influence and Y% it's random. As I assume you are trying to influence every throw.

It's not about betting patterns, or if you should grind or not. Jus answering the question 'when does influence start', and saying you can't pick and choose after the throw.

ME explained it better than me, but he tends to anyways.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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March 17th, 2013 at 9:54:00 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. But just to understand my perspective: I attempt to achieve better results on each roll. Some rolls I fail. My failed rolls are random.



I think this comes down to linguistics... and a choice of words. Here's what I get from Ahigh:

1. He tries to make a good roll to get better results with each roll.
2. Some rolls do get the results he wants.
3. Some rolls do not get the results he wants.
4. With each roll he is trying to influence the dice.
5. Sometimes the influence works, and sometimes it doesn't.

I see nothing wrong with that because it's what everyone does whether or not they set the dice, throw the dice a certain way, or just heave them. We all have the same goals when we throw the dice -- to have them show the number that will help us. After all, that is the point of the game.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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March 17th, 2013 at 10:02:08 PM permalink
Quote: tupp

A shooter with a "30 second ritual" is definitely not a dice influencer. Most skilled DIs can easily and comfortably shoot within five seconds of receiving the dice.



I think you're being harsh here. Whether or not it takes someone 30 seconds... or five seconds... or two seconds (which is more than it takes me) to set the dice is not any kind of measure at all of dice influencing. Speed for setting dice comes with practice. And that speed has no bearing on any other factor of dice influencing including the grip and toss, etc.

In my case as the dice are being pushed to me I immediately can see how to change the faces to make my set. Sometimes, however, I will take a few breaths because I don't want to feel pressured to throw too quickly.

When I had five fire bet numbers at Caesars a couple months back, the crew was very patient with me while I stood at the table, taking deep breaths even before I picked up the dice. I was the only player at the table with a fire bet -- $10 --- and a player at the other end of the table asked his base dealer "why is he taking so long?"

The stickman said "he has five points...." etc. They let me take my time. The next come out roll was a repeat number, but they also didn't rush me on successive rolls. Maybe it helped that I announced that if I made the sixth point the dealers would get a thousand bucks.
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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March 27th, 2013 at 10:25:58 PM permalink
Alan has some very good points. a good dice sitter always sees the dice when they are passed so you can get to your set quickly.
Many random throwers go through a long ritual before the roll.

In terms of influence, it has to be math, you have to have good enough records to indicate you have some influence. Without
records over time, you cant possibly say you influence anything.

Todays practice is an example..

3-5 3-6 5-12 6-1
4-2 4-1 6-6 2-2
2-4 1-2 4-3 2-1
6-6 2-6 6-4 4-3
3-1 4-1 6-2 3-1
1-1 5-4 4-2 4-6
3-6 3-3 5-1 3-1
3-2 2-3 2-4 5-4
3-5 5-3 2-3 2-3
6-5 6-2 4-3 5-4

now this set i had 22 rolls before a 7 , thats good, but in truth this set shows no influence over the dice at all,
there is 27.5% 6 & 8 which is average and 45% on axis which is average . I had 4 7's and only 1 6-1 which is
good. But results like these over time show no influence thank goodness this is not the typical session.

You need to be honest with your records... or your kidding yourself

dicesitter
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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March 27th, 2013 at 11:01:39 PM permalink
Only one "6-1."

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