ewjones080
ewjones080
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 456
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
August 7th, 2012 at 12:46:14 PM permalink
On the craps table last night I was dealing a guy was playing the Don't. He was the only player. After establishing an 8 for his point he wanted to void the point and start over. Our box wasn't sure if they would allow it, so they called over the pit. Pit told him he had to either pick up his Don't bet and walk away from the table, or had to finish the point cycle. Obviously he could've switched to the Passline but didn't want to.

So, I think this was kind of a raw deal for the player, since he left his don't and ended up hitting the 8. I don't see any harm in allowing him to void the point. So I was wondering if these rules are in place at other casinos, or if they let a don't void the point.
dwheatley
dwheatley
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 1246
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
August 7th, 2012 at 12:48:15 PM permalink
That is odd. You should be able to pick up a DP bet any time. It's a bad move to take it down, so forcing the player to play on or walk away actually costs the casino money either way.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
  • Threads: 79
  • Posts: 2501
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
August 7th, 2012 at 12:56:37 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

On the craps table last night I was dealing a guy was playing the Don't. He was the only player. After establishing an 8 for his point he wanted to void the point and start over. Our box wasn't sure if they would allow it, so they called over the pit. Pit told him he had to either pick up his Don't bet and walk away from the table, or had to finish the point cycle. Obviously he could've switched to the Passline but didn't want to.

So, I think this was kind of a raw deal for the player, since he left his don't and ended up hitting the 8. I don't see any harm in allowing him to void the point. So I was wondering if these rules are in place at other casinos, or if they let a don't void the point.



This very thing happened Friday at Hollywood, PA. I had never seen it in 10 years of play.

The shooter in my case was playing the DP when everyone else was rolling. He did not realize the dice were passing to him, so his DP bet was already on the table. When the person next to him passed, he picked up two dice and tossed them down the table, ironically it was the 6 or 8 point too. He then noticed it when he went to place his odds. The house would not allow him to pull his DP bet down and put it on the Passline instead. I asked why in the world would the casino not allow a player to take a bet that was in the player's favor, and change it to a bet that was in the house's favor. The box replied that PUT bets were not permitted.

The shooter's option was to play it out, or take down his DP bet, and pass the dice. I presume the point would have still been marked, and the next person would have continued to shoot for point that was set. He chose to play it out, and rolled his 7, but he was not happy since he lost the dice.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
7craps
7craps
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1977
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
August 7th, 2012 at 1:00:03 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

On the craps table last night I was dealing a guy was playing the Don't. He was the only player. After establishing an 8 for his point he wanted to void the point and start over. Our box wasn't sure if they would allow it, so they called over the pit. Pit told him he had to either pick up his Don't bet and walk away from the table, or had to finish the point cycle. Obviously he could've switched to the Passline but didn't want to.

So, I think this was kind of a raw deal for the player, since he left his don't and ended up hitting the 8. I don't see any harm in allowing him to void the point. So I was wondering if these rules are in place at other casinos, or if they let a don't void the point.

This goes to show the mentality of players and dealers and casino.

If the rules are for him to keep shooting instead of voiding a point,
he would have been better off to place the point for $5. (say his DP bet was $5)

Now, 7 out, he has a net of 0 for that point number, exactly what he wanted,
edit: If the point hits, he still breaks even or has a $50cent profit if they pay it, NOT what he wanted... A profit

Either way he increases the house edge the longer he plays.
There are many don't players that play his way.

They take a -0.013636364 edge
and want it
-0.053846154
By removing all point 6 &8s.
So the casino is even more dumb not to allow this.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 5072
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
August 7th, 2012 at 2:53:34 PM permalink
To be pe
Fighting BS one post at a time!
ewjones080
ewjones080
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 456
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
August 7th, 2012 at 3:54:50 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

This goes to show the mentality of players and dealers and casino.

If the rules are for him to keep shooting instead of voiding a point,
he would have been better off to place the point for $5. (say his DP bet was $5)


Now, 7 out, he has a net of 0 for that point number, exactly what he wanted,
If the point hits, he has a $1 profit, NOT what he wanted... A profit

Either way he increases the house edge the longer he plays.
There are many don't players that play his way.

They take a -0.013636364 edge
and want it
-0.053846154
By removing all point 6 &8s.
So the casino is even more dumb not to allow this.



That's exactly what we were saying last night. He had $5 don't so we were telling him, place it for $5, break even or make $.50 (yeah we have fifty centers, it sucks) But he didn't wanna do that, which I guess is smart.

But we have kind of a stupid Table Games Director. This rule is in place, obviously stupid, plus another rule was just put in place, where if a player leaves the table, all their non-contract bets are turned off. This includes Don'ts. As I understand it, when they return, their don'ts will be turned back on. After thinking about it, I don't think this helps the player, but why should they be forced to turn off a don't? Odds I can understand, but not the flats. I think both rules should be changed.
7craps
7craps
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 1977
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
August 7th, 2012 at 4:24:56 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

So I was wondering if these rules are in place at other casinos, or if they let a don't void the point.

I have never seen a rule in a dealer's procedure handbook for this, there may be a few that have it.

This is not a common event so even if you asked many casinos and their dealers and their box, you would find different answers even at the same house.
I would wonder if Gaming might have a ruling on this. No. I think they would leave it up to the casino.

If the don't player wants to screw himself, and there are many that do, that is great.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
August 7th, 2012 at 4:51:35 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

This very thing happened Friday at Hollywood, PA. I had never seen it in 10 years of play.

The shooter in my case was playing the DP when everyone else was rolling. He did not realize the dice were passing to him, so his DP bet was already on the table. When the person next to him passed, he picked up two dice and tossed them down the table, ironically it was the 6 or 8 point too. He then noticed it when he went to place his odds. The house would not allow him to pull his DP bet down and put it on the Passline instead. I asked why in the world would the casino not allow a player to take a bet that was in the player's favor, and change it to a bet that was in the house's favor. The box replied that PUT bets were not permitted.

The shooter's option was to play it out, or take down his DP bet, and pass the dice. I presume the point would have still been marked, and the next person would have continued to shoot for point that was set. He chose to play it out, and rolled his 7, but he was not happy since he lost the dice.



What odds does this casino allow? I'd understand (sort of) if odds were greater than 3,4,5x since then put bets outperform all place bets.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 2155
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
August 7th, 2012 at 6:00:42 PM permalink
I always thought if a player was betting the don`t he should get to keep shooting if he sevens out,since that is what he was trying to do.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
  • Threads: 79
  • Posts: 2501
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
August 7th, 2012 at 6:10:25 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu


What odds does this casino allow? I'd understand (sort of) if odds were greater than 3,4,5x since then put bets outperform all place bets.



Hollywood, PA - 3-4-5x odds, and yes, I also pointed out to them that a place bet would pay the exact same as a PUT bet, so even if they allowed them, it would be a stupid player bet. I think they replied PA law did not allow a PUT, but that is usually what they say when you question anything.

However, they also told me they would not allow a player to put a pass line bet down and take odds after a point was set, but I am sure I have seen this happen there before. I know I have seen it a lot in Biloxi
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
  • Jump to: