pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:21:11 AM permalink
Hi there, new member here. When playing blackjack, I like to play short sessions flat betting until I am either up or down 5 stake units. Assuming perfect strategy, is there a way to calculate the % chance of either event occurring first (being up 5 units or down 5 units)? I guess this likely depends on rule variations which affect how likely you are to win or lose a single hand. But just looking for a rough figure if anyone can help!
billryan
billryan
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:30:48 AM permalink
So if you go to a casino and win five straight hands, you leave? Or if you lose five, you do the same thing?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
ChumpChange
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:42:04 AM permalink
If you split 4 times and double down 4 times in the same hand, you don't have 8 units to make that bet. I'm starting with 25 units now.
pwcrabb
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:43:09 AM permalink
Rough figures can be useful.

Assign probabilities to winning and losing such as 0.49 and 0.51 while ignoring pushes for this rough model. Next work out the bell curve distribution over infinite trials. You are interested in discovering and measuring those portions of the distribution which are five or more steps away from the zero mean.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:44:53 AM permalink
Hi, I meant playing until either being up or down 5 stake units overall. Not necessarily in one streak. So it could be a very short session if one was to lose or win five straight hands from the start, or a long one if the player kept alternating between wins and losses.
pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:46:40 AM permalink
True, I would allow for potentially losing extra units as required in order to play perfect strategy. I usually only play one seat though so wouldn't ever need 8 units in one round
pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 26th, 2021 at 9:47:20 AM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Rough figures can be useful.

Assign probabilities to winning and losing such as 0.49 and 0.51 while ignoring pushes for this rough model. Next work out the bell curve distribution over infinite trials. You are interested in discovering and measuring those portions of the distribution which are five or more steps away from the zero mean.



Yes that's what I'm getting at, just not got enough math brains for that to work it out myself!
billryan
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March 26th, 2021 at 11:38:44 AM permalink
Quote: pepperedterror

True, I would allow for potentially losing extra units as required in order to play perfect strategy. I usually only play one seat though so wouldn't ever need 8 units in one round




It's rare but it does happen.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
OnceDear
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pepperedterror
March 26th, 2021 at 11:43:17 AM permalink
Quote: pepperedterror

Hi there, new member here. When playing blackjack, I like to play short sessions flat betting until I am either up or down 5 stake units. Assuming perfect strategy, is there a way to calculate the % chance of either event occurring first (being up 5 units or down 5 units)? I guess this likely depends on rule variations which affect how likely you are to win or lose a single hand. But just looking for a rough figure if anyone can help!

Finger in the air for a low edge game...Oncedear's rule of thumb
Blackjack rules mess you up a bit in that you will struggle to eliminate the chance that your final hand needs a split or double or is a blackjack. If you face the inability to play basic strategy, you increase the house edge.

I like to do something similar, taking 400 to the table with the objective of leaving with zero or 450.... I make my 50 profit roughly 400/450=88% of the time. When I fail, I don't mention it $:o)
Only reporting when I succeed
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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March 26th, 2021 at 12:14:46 PM permalink
If you want an exact answer you need to let us know exactly what the rules of the game you are playing. And if you are allowed to vary your bet at all. Is winning 5.5 units the same as winning 5 units? Etc.....

As an easy example.... let’s say you are up 4.5 units..... are you allowed now to just bet 1/2 a unit?

If you are up 4 units and have an 11 versus a 7, under normal circumstances you would obviously double. But NOT if your goal is +5 and +6 is the ‘same’ as plus 5.

But.... with ‘regular’ rules, I’d guess you make it to plus 5 47% of the time and -5 53%. Not that there is any real relevance to the accurate answer.
rainman
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March 26th, 2021 at 1:32:50 PM permalink
Quote: pepperedterror

True, I would allow for potentially losing extra units as required in order to play perfect strategy. I usually only play one seat though so wouldn't ever need 8 units in one round



1seat 1hand split to 4 double each =8
charliepatrick
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pepperedterror
March 26th, 2021 at 5:46:14 PM permalink
The following pages are useful. The first gives the probabilities using "liberal strip rules" of being between -8 and +8 (-0.5 is surrender, +1.5 is Blackjack). Technically from this you could work it out.
(i) https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/variance/
(ii) https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/blackjack/probability/
pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 27th, 2021 at 10:02:22 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

If you want an exact answer you need to let us know exactly what the rules of the game you are playing. And if you are allowed to vary your bet at all. Is winning 5.5 units the same as winning 5 units? Etc.....

As an easy example.... let’s say you are up 4.5 units..... are you allowed now to just bet 1/2 a unit?

If you are up 4 units and have an 11 versus a 7, under normal circumstances you would obviously double. But NOT if your goal is +5 and +6 is the ‘same’ as plus 5.

But.... with ‘regular’ rules, I’d guess you make it to plus 5 47% of the time and -5 53%. Not that there is any real relevance to the accurate answer.



Hi thanks for replying.

If up 4.5 units I may just bet a half unit to give myself an extra shot at reaching +5.
If I had a double down / split situation I would still follow the correct strategy though. So I would consider +6 or -6 the same in those situations.

Thanks for the estimate of 47%/53%; that's the kind of answer I was looking for.
pepperedterror
pepperedterror
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March 27th, 2021 at 10:03:08 AM permalink
Quote: rainman

1seat 1hand split to 4 double each =8



Hi I most often play online with rules of no resplitting and sometimes no double after split
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