AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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SM777
March 26th, 2018 at 10:52:44 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Long story short...


Well that's certainly not true...

ZK, you clearly know more about gaming law than almost anyone. Why bother calling Bob, just file suit and litigate yourself. I await the outcome and Stratosphere's untimely demise.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:02:28 AM permalink
Once you file a complaint can the casino use the pending case to bar you from the premises?
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:04:43 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Once you file a complaint can the casino use the pending case to bar you from the premises?



Nope. Besides barring is illegal in nevada if youre just counting. You need to be causing a 'disturbance' or being 'disorderly'. Whatever bs comes out of their mouth saying that youre trespassed, etc is just intimidation and lies
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:12:28 AM permalink
Any casino that uses a cut card on a single deck game is preferential shuffling.

ZK, if you want to be self righteous and get nothing out of this yourself then go for it. It’s pretty clear why you haven’t been able to get hours in LV (continuously messing with Paris, about the worst place possible for leading to issues elsewhere). You can either try to make money at CC, or fight against all the bullshit, but trying both is just going to be a continuous exercise in frustration/futility.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:13:50 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

There was an agent sent out there last night to investigate what happened and to watch the tape, but im not holding my breath because Gaming is as useless and corrupt as they come in this city.

If they are useless and corrupt why do you bother calling them or even having them on speed cial?
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:40:17 AM permalink
1st, I guess I have to point out... At least the Strat clearly doesn't use chinese preshuffled cards since you were winning?

Quote: MaxPen

There is a podcast with Bob on GWAE where he states that he thinks it is technically illegal to preferential shuffle by the casino because at that point they are changing the odds. It has never been challenged in court though.

Kind of. He stated it IS illegal, BUT you'd have to prove THAT'S why they shuffled. Thus, they could claim it's for 1 of 1,000 reasons. As long as they don't say "we're shuffling because the count is high" then it's not illegal because they don't know if they're helping or hurting the players, technically. You and I both know they're shuffling because you're betting big, which must mean the count is good... but so long as they don't have someone in a room counting going "the count is high on table 12, shuffle that shoe" then it's not technically illegal.

Quote: ZenKinG

NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

“Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;

(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;

(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or

(d) The value of a wagering credit.

Preferential shuffling violates subsection (a) and (b) as it alters the result of the game and the frequency of payment due to more blackjacks that I wouldve received had they not shuffled up on me in a hot shoe.

Shuffling doesn't mean it violates A or B. You must prove they KNOW they're changing the odds by shuffling in order to violate the statute.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:47:30 AM permalink
Should be easy to prove.
Put out a larger bet in a good count and they shuffle.
Put out a similar bet in a bad count and do they shuffle?
As mentioned, If putting out big bets causes a shuffle, use it to your advantage.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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MaxPenRogerKintSOOPOObeachbumbabsontariodealer
March 26th, 2018 at 11:47:47 AM permalink
I feel this deserves it's own post, sorry for the double up

ZK... let's say you're right, gaming says this isn't fair, and the LAWS get changed/enforced so they can NEVER shuffle to change any kind of odds. Let's say all that happens. Okay, now every single casino in town switches to Continuous Shufflers, which is completely in their right to do. Have fun with your counting career? Have fun ruining ANYONE ELSE'S counting career because you're making a stink over things we've all known for decades. As the Wiz said, we're not just pushing it aside. It's part of the cat and mouse game.

They're a business. They're not FORCED to let you win. They have the right to change their games, not offer them, and ban you from their establishment. This is why we're forced to play the cat and mouse game, trying to cover that we're counters, not publicly outing ourselves, and most importantly of all not ruining opportunities for ourselves and more importantly other AP's/counters.

If I was hole carding a game and got cheated out of a hand, I wouldn't say s**t. The $x that I lost there is nothing compared to the $500-$1500 per hour I'm pulling from them, so F it. I also wouldn't burn the play down by exposing it to them to not only burn my own play, where I could potentially come back for months or years, but then to not burn the play for other AP's... if every AP played "burn it down" strategy, there'd be nothing left for any of us. This is a big part of AP'ing... AP'ing responsibly, I guess I'd call it. Very upsetting and disappointing to see someone call themselves a counter/AP and actively try to ruin the opportunities for all.

Because of that I would NEVER want to tell you about ANY plays, anywhere, EVER, because I know if you feel you've been wronged you'll blow the play out of the water throwing a tantrum... thus costing me thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 26th, 2018 at 11:50:10 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Once you file a complaint can the casino use the pending case to bar you from the premises?

Definitely not.
If the amount in dispute is 500.00 or more and you call for a gaming agent they must preserve the evidence no matter who is inconvenienced or annoyed by it. When the agent arrives and flashes his badge his determination can be appealed and a hearing will be calendared. Even during the pendency of that appeal they can't bar you and it would be real bad publicity if they even tried.
SM777
SM777
Joined: Apr 8, 2016
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DRichGlenG
March 26th, 2018 at 2:06:22 PM permalink
ZenKing crying in another post? Wow, didn't see that coming.

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