Did the lightbulb just go off about tipping$ ?
I tend to tip early in the game... it gets me noticed and remembered. Maybe it gains me something, maybe it doesn't.
Adopting any persona gains you nothing, if the floor thinks you are greedy they will 86 you eventually.
Quote: billryan
Lesson learned. I still eat too much, but buffets are once every two months or so.
I've stopped going to Casino buffets for two reasons.
1) The cost in most AC and PA casinos is absurdly high for dinner or on weekends. $35 minimum in AC and $50-60 in PA (Sands). They offer Prime Rib, All you can eat Crab or Lobster, but the line for both is always long.
2) Getting sick from undercooked/tainted food. I completely stopped eating Sushi and Cocktail Shrimp after getting a terrible stomach virus at the Borgata Buffet in AC. Of course, when I called to complain about the incident, they denied responsibility and offered a voucher for another restaurant because of my tier card status. I balked at the offer and told em "Send it to Tropicana and I'll consider it"
Quote: FleaStiffYou tip for service, if its very good service you tip generously, if you win big you tip a bit more.
I tend to tip early in the game... it gets me noticed and remembered. Maybe it gains me something, maybe it doesn't.
Adopting any persona gains you nothing, if the floor thinks you are greedy they will 86 you eventually.
As I've said before, tipping a dealer is for suckers unless that tipping increases your EV in other ways such as a deep cut every shuffle etc. When casinos start tipping me when I lose, then i'll start tipping. It's not my responsibility to pay their workers. No I'm not selfish, that's the way it should be, but people have been brainwashed into this system thinking it's the customer's duty to tip. Things have gotten so bad in society that now if you don't tip for a particular service, I'm all of a sudden the bad guy? Why does no one look at these business owners who have high enough margins to pay their workers? It's actually unbelievable how easily humans are brainwashed.
It's the same thing in restuarants. Restaurants are simply trying to take advantage of societal norms with the 'tip' system so they can save more and more costs. I'd understand if it would be hard to turn a profit if you had to pay your workers, but these restaurants and casinos are just greedy money hungry people. Restaurants and obviously casinos can easily pay their workers at least minimum wage and still have a healthy margin.
I also don't want to hear people say, well if there wasn't a tip system you would pay a higher price in food or have worse rules and games in the casino. That would only happen if idiotic customers keep going back. Don't let these restaurant owners or casino scum fool you. Their margins are high enough to pay their workers a fair wage.
Stop letting these people make you feel guilty for not tipping. The real guilty ones are these greedy owners who are trying to take advantage of the system to not pay their workers and trying to pass it onto the customer to pay their workers.
Quote: ZenKinGAs I've said before, tipping a dealer is for suckers unless that tipping increases your EV in other ways such as a deep cut every shuffle etc. When casinos start tipping me when I lose, then i'll start tipping. It's not my responsibility to pay their workers. No I'm not selfish, that's the way it should be, but people have been brainwashed into this system thinking it's the customer's duty to tip. Things have gotten so bad in society that now if you don't tip for a particular service, I'm all of a sudden the bad guy? Why does no one look at these business owners who have high enough margins to pay their workers? It's actually unbelievable how easily humans are brainwashed.
It's the same thing in restuarants. Restaurants are simply trying to take advantage of societal norms with the 'tip' system so they can save more and more costs. I'd understand if it would be hard to turn a profit if you had to pay your workers, but these restaurants and casinos are just greedy money hungry people. Restaurants and obviously casinos can easily pay their workers at least minimum wage and still have a healthy margin.
I also don't want to hear people say, well if there wasn't a tip system you would pay a higher price in food or have worse rules and games in the casino. That would only happen if idiotic customers keep going back. Don't let these restaurant owners or casino scum fool you. Their margins are high enough to pay their workers a fair wage.
Stop letting these people make you feel guilty for not tipping. The real guilty ones are these greedy owners who are trying to take advantage of the system to not pay their workers and trying to pass it onto the customer to pay their workers.
I can’t believe I’m going to say this but I agree with ZK. I guess there is a first time for everything. I’d rather pay more for my food, have the server make a proper wage and not tip. As a former casino dealer I have always thought tipping a dealer for a win was stupid, the dealer does the same job whether you win or lose.
Addressing ZK not PG
Quote: mcallister3200Don’t tell people what to do with their money bro. And don’t eat at sit down restaurants, please. I like that in some countries tips aren’t expected and you don’t have to hear wait staff/dealers constantly discussing them, and the practice is a bit socially awkward, it it is what it is. If someone doesn’t like America there’s always Latin America. When you stiff a server, you know you are screwing them, justify it however you want, you know damn well you are taking advantage of them. Some of the jobs like dealers, housekeeping, shuttle drivers, etc it’s a little less clear cut, who should I tip and when does it ever just stop.
Addressing ZK not PG
I know you weren’t addressing me but I felt like I should mention as much as I think tipping is stupid, I’m an excellent tipper, especially in restaurants. I just dislike the practice. People are quite often surprised at my point of view seeing as my previous jobs include casino dealer, bartender and waiter.
Tipping used not to be common place in America and was actually frowned upon as Un-American.
You need only watch the first few minutes of The Painted Desert (mobster and friends intimidate patrons in lonely desert café) to see the famed sign "Please do not insult our employees by tipping them". Such signage was common else it would not have been in a movie albeit one that was not shot in the Painted Desert.
Men no longer even wear hats much less tip them to a blind man. I always felt it was foolish to tip one's hat to a man who could not see you do it. Hats are coming back into style in many areas and I'm sure tipping them to blind men will NOT re-appear. Jazz musicians and all cabaret performers now wear hats, artists now tend to wear hats. Some customs come and go.
And don't think a tipped dealer will not at least try to do his best for a player who has tipped him.
Quote: AxelWolfFancy restaurant tipping starts to get ridiculous. $20 to $40 per person is absurd. There should be a cap and the percentage should be lower. But whatever, you got to do what you got to do.
I totally agree, why am I tipping someone more to bring me a Ribeye versus bringing me a salad?
Quote: PokerGrinderI totally agree, why am I tipping someone more to bring me a Ribeye versus bringing me a salad?
Because someone used the phrase "societal norm". Nice older gentleman took care of me and 7 of my partners. Italian restaurant. Upscale by Buffalo standards. Bill a tad over $400. Tip was $80. He had a few other tables. Likely cleared $300-400 for 3-4 hours work. Just seems too much. Know a kid (20's) who was a bartender at outdoor place that had a band Friday and Saturday nights. Place packed. He said he made as much as $800 in tips a night. Just seems too much. But I can't imagine buying that $5 beer and not leaving $1.
I've heard people complain about teachers making 100k despite only working 180 days a year. It's the same answer I give to those that complain about tipped employees making high wages..... These salaries are NOT secrets. Feel free to get one of those jobs and stop bitching!
Quote: ZenKinGAs I've said before, tipping a dealer is for suckers unless that tipping increases your EV in other ways such as a deep cut every shuffle etc. When casinos start tipping me when I lose, then i'll start tipping.
Theoretically speaking, are you saying you would tip if you were playing with a loss rebate? ;)
Quote:It's the same thing in restuarants. Restaurants are simply trying to take advantage of societal norms with the 'tip' system so they can save more and more costs. I'd understand if it would be hard to turn a profit if you had to pay your workers, but these restaurants and casinos are just greedy money hungry people. Restaurants and obviously casinos can easily pay their workers at least minimum wage and still have a healthy margin.
I was kind of with you until you said, "Restaurants."
If you don't like to tip, then you should LOVE the restaurant tipping system, as should anyone who doesn't like to tip and chooses not to or to only tip a little. I'm an excellent tipper, so me and people like me are subsidizing everyone else. If the restaurants are made to pay minimum wage, straight up, then that is what they are going to pay (and if tipping stops being an expectation) those are the employees that they are going to attract. Beyond that, if you want to see greedy, just make them double a server's wages...because that's what's going to happen to the menu prices.
One thing that may surprise you, and this is all over the country, there are any number of restaurants at which the total bill for a family of four comes out to the same thing as if everyone had gotten fast food. Good places, too, you just have to be willing to look for coupons.
Cleaner, nicer, better staffed, better food...why? Because they don't have to pay the employees minimum wage on direct. Restaurants are the one place where trickle-down Economics actually works! People are there spending discretionary income, and as a result, many (myself included) adopt the mantra, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat."
Anyway, there you go. You're paying something over-and-above what the bill says for the service, and the service is worth whatever you say it's worth. In your view, the service at the casinos is worth nothing. Maybe it's worth nothing at the restaurants, in your opinion. All that is fine, it's your choice.
Think of servers like someone coming to clean your house, or some other service employee. You decide what they are to get paid, the key difference is that servers don't have the ability to refuse the job...so if you say they get paid nothing extra from you, then that's what they get.
Quote:I also don't want to hear people say, well if there wasn't a tip system you would pay a higher price in food or have worse rules and games in the casino. That would only happen if idiotic customers keep going back. Don't let these restaurant owners or casino scum fool you. Their margins are high enough to pay their workers a fair wage.
Well...Tipping is a thing, and people play 6:5 Blackjack and Triple-Zero Roulette now, so, yeah...
And, no, the margins at restaurants are not always high enough for that. Most new independent restaurants close within the first three years, so I'm guessing their margins weren't high enough to pay the servers more money. Restaurants actually operate on really thin margins; (other than super high-end places) they just count on a good deal of volume.
Yes, restaurant prices would go up. Because of that, fast food could then justify upping prices a little bit, as could pizza. Your choices would be limited to either continuing to go to restaurants or not, but make no mistake that the costs would go up.
I want to know what business you think is going to incur additional costs in one area without either reducing costs in another area, or alternatively, increasing gross revenues somehow. You're a smart guy. That's not how Economics works.
Quote:Stop letting these people make you feel guilty for not tipping. The real guilty ones are these greedy owners who are trying to take advantage of the system to not pay their workers and trying to pass it onto the customer to pay their workers.
I would petition the State and Federal Governments, then. They are the ones who made it law that an employee could be designated as, "Tipped," and paid a reduced wage provided it is brought up to the regular minimum wage over a pay period if their tips don't get them there.
Tipping is a choice, as is feeling guilty. If you don't want to tip, then maybe you should just find a way to not feel guilty about it.
If that wage plus collected tips is less than $7.25 an hour, the employer has to make up the difference.
In other words, they must get paid at least minimum wage, but most of the time most of those wages are paid directly by the customers.
As people pointed out, in higher-ups restaraunts, wait staff pull down more than minimum wage, in some cases much more. In those restaraunts they are likely making more than $2.13 an hour, but similarly, a large part of their wages are paid directly by the customer.
In any case, if tipping were eliminated, 100% of the costs would come from the employer, their expenses would rise, and food prices would rise.
Net effect on a customer's bill? I don't know, but my point is that while your tip expense would drop, your food expense would surely rise.
Quote: Dalex64Minimum wage for most wait staff is $2.13 an hour, I believe.
That's the Federal requirement, most states with a minimum wage in excess of Federal also have a greater tipped staff minimum. In fact, it's not even always proportionate to the Federal numbers. For example, Ohio has a regular MW of $8.10 with $4.05 (50%) for tipped staff.
Quote:If that wage plus collected tips is less than $7.25 an hour, the employer has to make up the difference.
Or, the State Minimum Wage, if greater.
Quote:In other words, they must get paid at least minimum wage, but most of the time most of those wages are paid directly by the customers.
Yes, and more importantly, they generally have an effective wage in excess of the regular minimum wage.
Quote:As people pointed out, in higher-ups restaraunts, wait staff pull down more than minimum wage, in some cases much more. In those restaraunts they are likely making more than $2.13 an hour, but similarly, a large part of their wages are paid directly by the customer.
I would say most restaurants, in general. I've talked to very few, if any, servers who have said they come out under the regular minimum.
Quote:In any case, if tipping were eliminated, 100% of the costs would come from the employer, their expenses would rise, and food prices would rise.
Net effect on a customer's bill? I don't know, but my point is that while your tip expense would drop, your food expense would surely rise.
Absolutely.
The long and short is that a few things would happen:
1.) Employers would pay more.
2.) After people got the idea not to tip anymore, servers would make less.
3.) Menu costs would increase.
4.) Other dining options (fast food and pizza) would levy increased costs, basically because they could.
5.) Some customers pay less overall, (good tippers), while others (bad/no tippers) will pay more.
6.) The level of service would go down, because there really isn't much incentive to go WAY out of the way to please the customer. The only incentive being to do just enough to stay employed.
7.) It ends up sucking for everyone, except the people who already tip well. They may well end up paying less to dine out, in total.
I am an obsessive tipper, but I really dislike pooled tips, especially for dealers. There is no way for a customer to reward good service or not reward poor service.Quote: Mission146The level of service would go down, because there really isn't much incentive to go WAY out of the way to please the customer. The only incentive being to do just enough to stay employed.
I went out to eat last week for the first time in a long time. I had a flaming liberal chastise me for harassing the waitress, although she had no idea on what I had said last, possibly she heard my other comments to the server.
The only things I said to the waitress were, yes...that would be great...really good....thank you...and, do you accept tips? I did not see the lib make any attempt to tip the waitress.
Bars can get burned by this nonsensical tipping system too. I was privy to a situation at a bar that was having a lot of problems getting a reliable manager, so a lot of things flew under the radar. And in a single year, a particular bartender raked in $80k worth of tips while the bar lost it’s shirt in liquor sales. I’ll let you guess how that could have happened....
Quote: ZenKinGbut people have been brainwashed into this system thinking it's the customer's duty to tip.
I agree.
Customs get established, and can be very hard to get rid of. Although it's beyond a custom, for instance, if you think Muslim women hate wearing full garbs, you'd be wrong in many cases. They even have reasons why it's better.
~
My dad would say, this is your job. You do it as best as you can. If you want to do it less than that you can have an "attitude adjustment".
I expect good service regardless, every time. If you want to get paid for something extra, put it on my bill., like an itemization.
But the tipping system is practically hard wired at this point, and even spreading, afaict.
Unfortunately, all the pro tippers have a conniption fit when people don't tip (sometimes people make death threats).Quote: SOOPOOBecause someone used the phrase "societal norm". Nice older gentleman took care of me and 7 of my partners. Italian restaurant. Upscale by Buffalo standards. Bill a tad over $400. Tip was $80. He had a few other tables. Likely cleared $300-400 for 3-4 hours work. Just seems too much. Know a kid (20's) who was a bartender at outdoor place that had a band Friday and Saturday nights. Place packed. He said he made as much as $800 in tips a night. Just seems too much. But I can't imagine buying that $5 beer and not leaving $1.
I've heard people complain about teachers making 100k despite only working 180 days a year. It's the same answer I give to those that complain about tipped employees making high wages..... These salaries are NOT secrets. Feel free to get one of those jobs and stop bitching!
If everyone would mind their own god damn business when its other people's money we wouldn't have a problem.
If I owned or managed a restaurant I would ban employees from mentioning anything that has to do with tips.
I can believe restaurants have an 18% mandatory gratuity for parties of 6 or more.
Quote: Mission146That's the Federal requirement, most states with a minimum wage in excess of Federal also have a greater tipped staff minimum. In fact, it's not even always proportionate to the Federal numbers. For example, Ohio has a regular MW of $8.10 with $4.05 (50%) for tipped staff.
Or, the State Minimum Wage, if greater.
Yes, and more importantly, they generally have an effective wage in excess of the regular minimum wage.
I would say most restaurants, in general. I've talked to very few, if any, servers who have said they come out under the regular minimum.
Absolutely.
The long and short is that a few things would happen:
1.) Employers would pay more.
2.) After people got the idea not to tip anymore, servers would make less.
3.) Menu costs would increase.
4.) Other dining options (fast food and pizza) would levy increased costs, basically because they could.
5.) Some customers pay less overall, (good tippers), while others (bad/no tippers) will pay more.
6.) The level of service would go down, because there really isn't much incentive to go WAY out of the way to please the customer. The only incentive being to do just enough to stay employed.
7.) It ends up sucking for everyone, except the people who already tip well. They may well end up paying less to dine out, in total.
Quote: AxelWolfUnfortunately, all the pro tippers have a conniption fit when people don't tip (sometimes people make death threats).
If everyone would mind their own god damn business when its other people's money we wouldn't have a problem.
If I owned or managed a restaurant I would ban employees from mentioning anything that has to do with tips.
I can believe restaurants have an 18% mandatory gratuity for parties of 6 or more.
While I don't really care what someone does on their own, if you are out with a group they had best go with the group or they can sit alone. If you don't want to shell out 20% over the food price, simply don't eat at places that will put you in that position.
And I do go with the flow for the most part, group or not. I over tip on some stuff, but whenever me and my GF go out to a nice dinner by ourselves and it's over a certain amount I'll drop the percentage down unless we got above the average expected service . For the most part, we are tipping the wrong people. Tip the people who help save lives or save you money.Quote: billryanWhile I don't really care what someone does on their own, if you are out with a group they had best go with the group or they can sit alone. If you don't want to shell out 20% over the food price, simply don't eat at places that will put you in that position.
Most restaurants require an 18% gratuity for 6 to 8 people. However, they shouldn't be able to call it a gratuity since it's it's really a service charge.
Quote: petroglyphI am an obsessive tipper, but I really dislike pooled tips, especially for dealers. There is no way for a customer to reward good service or not reward poor service.
Directly, not so much. Indirectly, I would say by tipping or not tipping. I would think some record is made of the contribution by each shift and table, so if you have a dealer consistently underperforming, (compared to same game/shift) you know you might have a problem. Maybe it doesn't work like that. Either way, I agree that pooled tipping sucks.
Quote:I went out to eat last week for the first time in a long time. I had a flaming liberal chastise me for harassing the waitress, although she had no idea on what I had said last, possibly she heard my other comments to the server.
The only things I said to the waitress were, yes...that would be great...really good....thank you...and, do you accept tips? I did not see the lib make any attempt to tip the waitress.
Chastise you for what? Tell her what to do with herself. People like that are why I can't just call myself a Democrat anymore. I refuse to be guilty by association.
Quote: AxelWolf
Most restaurants require an 18% gratuity for 6 to 8 people. However, they shouldn't be able to call it a gratuity since it's it's really a service charge.
Screw that. If it's 18% they want, then it's 18% they'll get. Saves me money. Would have been 30-40%.
It was at a "Culvers". I've never been to one before and wasn't sure how it works as far as bonusing the server? I was a couple minutes behind the group that I joined, and someone else picked up the tab for my meal on a cc.Quote: Mission146Chastise you for what?
The server was excellent, I looked around multiple tables and didn't see any money being left for the staff and this waitress was very attentive and got close to each person to check their needs, she was polite and friendly. I answered approximately as I stated above except the last question about whether or not she accepted tips, which I asked discreetly. The waitress answered in the affirmative and as I saw no other money on tables, I handed her a tip directly, without making a show of it placing it on the table.
The chastiser accused me of harassing the waitress, I don't know if she meant sexually or other, but either would be quite incorrect. She felt compelled to get on me about harassing the waitress? I didn't come back at her for that one, but the next day, we did have words about another matter where she also felt compelled to correct me about some thing or other.
As I said, she is a flaming liberal and brags of the hundred hours she spent on HRC's campaign, to which I had no comment. Although I am firmly anti-Hillary, [but made no comment] that does not make me a Trump supporter. I think possibly at lib camp, they are told that anyone who doesn't cheer for HRC, must be a female harasser, and/ or a Trump supporter?
Even here on these boards when I disagree with Hill, I get accused of supporting DT, and when I disagree about DT, I get branded a lib. To much black and white, not enough gray.
Quote: petroglyphEven here on these boards when I disagree with Hill, I get accused of supporting DT, and when I disagree about DT, I get branded a lib. To much black and white, not enough gray.
Once you start firing shots, someone will assume you're not on their side. Then everyone has to bomb Switzerland.
Quote: petroglyphIt was at a "Culvers". I've never been to one before and wasn't sure how it works as far as bonusing the server? I was a couple minutes behind the group that I joined, and someone else picked up the tab for my meal on a cc.
I've never heard of it. What's that?
Quote:The chastiser accused me of harassing the waitress, I don't know if she meant sexually or other, but either would be quite incorrect. She felt compelled to get on me about harassing the waitress? I didn't come back at her for that one, but the next day, we did have words about another matter where she also felt compelled to correct me about some thing or other.
She's an idiot, tell her what to do with herself. Like I said, it's people like her that give Democrats, and anyone with Liberal-leanings, in general, a bad name. She's probably the type of person to wear a scoop blouse and accuse you of harassment if your eyes wander a bit.
Quote:As I said, she is a flaming liberal and brags of the hundred hours she spent on HRC's campaign, to which I had no comment. Although I am firmly anti-Hillary, [but made no comment] that does not make me a Trump supporter. I think possibly at lib camp, they are told that anyone who doesn't cheer for HRC, must be a female harasser, and/ or a Trump supporter?
I know all about that, I've been jumped on a few times for voting Johnson, "You did this! You're just as responsible as Trump supporters!"
1.) I believe that the American thing to do is vote for the candidate you want to win, so here you have so-called, "Liberals," suggesting I shouldn't do that.
2.) I'm not fond of Hillary, but admittedly, would have chosen her over Trump had those been my only choices.
3.) If nobody had voted for Trump, then Trump has zero votes and cannot win...the Hell did I have to do with him getting votes? I had something to do with Gary Johnson getting a vote.
4.) Even if I had voted Hillary, it wouldn't have mattered. She lost the state by multiple votes.
There are different levels of, "Lib Camp," just like some Rightists are racists and others are not. Some are varying degrees of racist, some aren't racist at all.
Quote:Even here on these boards when I disagree with Hill, I get accused of supporting DT, and when I disagree about DT, I get branded a lib. To much black and white, not enough gray.
I heard that! While Leftists have a simple majority of them, obviously, there are reasonable ideas on both sides. The single best idea is to identify problems and look for solutions to those problems, all without confining oneself to whatever solutions are supported by a 200+ year old document, a 2000+ year old book, blindly agreeing with what an individual political party that you identify with says or whatever moral code with which one individually conducts himself or herself.
Quote: Mission146I've never heard of it. What's that?
Quote:The chastiser accused me of harassing the waitress, I don't know if she meant sexually or other, but either would be quite incorrect. She felt compelled to get on me about harassing the waitress? I didn't come back at her for that one, but the next day, we did have words about another matter where she also felt compelled to correct me about some thing or other.
She's an idiot, tell her what to do with herself. Like I said, it's people like her that give Democrats, and anyone with Liberal-leanings, in general, a bad name. She's probably the type of person to wear a scoop blouse and accuse you of harassment if your eyes wander a bit.Quote:As I said, she is a flaming liberal and brags of the hundred hours she spent on HRC's campaign, to which I had no comment. Although I am firmly anti-Hillary, [but made no comment] that does not make me a Trump supporter. I think possibly at lib camp, they are told that anyone who doesn't cheer for HRC, must be a female harasser, and/ or a Trump supporter?
I know all about that, I've been jumped on a few times for voting Johnson, "You did this! You're just as responsible as Trump supporters!"
1.) I believe that the American thing to do is vote for the candidate you want to win, so here you have so-called, "Liberals," suggesting I shouldn't do that.
2.) I'm not fond of Hillary, but admittedly, would have chosen her over Trump had those been my only choices.
3.) If nobody had voted for Trump, then Trump has zero votes and cannot win...the Hell did I have to do with him getting votes? I had something to do with Gary Johnson getting a vote.
4.) Even if I had voted Hillary, it wouldn't have mattered. She lost the state by multiple votes.
There are different levels of, "Lib Camp," just like some Rightists are racists and others are not. Some are varying degrees of racist, some aren't racist at all.
I heard that! While Leftists have a simple majority of them, obviously, there are reasonable ideas on both sides. The single best idea is to identify problems and look for solutions to those problems, all without confining oneself to whatever solutions are supported by a 200+ year old document, a 2000+ year old book, blindly agreeing with what an individual political party that you identify with says or whatever moral code with which one individually conducts himself or herself.
Mission, I voted Hillary myself. I can't believe someone got mad at you and blamed you for Trump becoming President because your voting for Johnson! You didn't vote for Trump! That person was being ignorant. SMDHS. Shaking my damn head sadly.
Gary Johnson had 172,136 votes
Jill Stein had 51,463
Other candidates about 27,000 votes in total
Winner take all = 16 electoral votes.
Life lesson- eat your veggies and say your prayers. They evidently protect you from a lot of nonsense.
Quote: Dalex64Well, in Michigan, Hillary lost by about 11,000 votes.
Gary Johnson had 172,136 votes
Jill Stein had 51,463
Other candidates about 27,000 votes in total
Winner take all = 16 electoral votes.
That's an interesting point, though not my state. Although, while Stein probably more-or-less directly pulled votes from Hillary, I believe The Washington Post held that Johnson defectors largely helped Trump:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/11/11/gary-johnson-helped-hillary-not-by-enough-but-he-did/?utm_term=.f5a91dc7faa2
Quote:Clinton has 47.7% of the popular vote. So let’s hold her constant by comparing the outcome to the day when that was her projected vote share at 538, October 3.
Oct 3 projection, 47.7 Clinton, 43.9 Trump, 7.0 Johnson
Outcome: 47.7 Clinton, 47.4 Trump, 3.3 Johnson
Comparing those two, Johnson lost 3.7. Trump gained 3.5. That looks an awful lot like the hypothesis “Johnson’s support was heavily soft-GOP, and it went home.” The reasonable guess about what would have happened if Johnson’s support had fallen further is a larger net gain to Trump (unfortunately).
In other words, at least nationally-speaking, I am one of a minority of Johnson voters who would have went Clinton over Trump, if forced to choose.
In fact, had those that said they would have voted for Johnson in the surveys actually done so, average 5.6% (He got 3.6% of the vote in Michigan):
https://www.270towin.com/2016-polls-clinton-trump/michigan/
https://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/michigan/
He would have had (173057/3.6) * 5.6 = 269,200 votes in Michigan.
If the Washington Post data v. results can be believed, and can be extrapolated to Michigan, Clinton would have almost certainly WON Michigan if everyone who said they were voting for Johnson had actually done so.
Quote: billryanI must live in a bubble. I don't think I've ever been lectured by a stranger about tips, nor ever been in a situation where I had to ask a waitress if she accepted tips.
Life lesson- eat your veggies and say your prayers. They evidently protect you from a lot of nonsense.
He's referring to one specific instance. Lots of things happen to people in one specific instance that don't happen to other people. I hit my head off of a diving board once and had to get six or seven large stitches, did that ever happen to you?
One by one we can end this tipping nonense. Just stop tipping and refuse to go back if food prices go up. You will be surprised how restaurants will still.be able to keep the lights on with competitive food prices while still paying their workers a fair wage. I'm also sick of hearing the phrase, 'You're paying for the service' What service? Bringing a plate to my table and filling up my glass with water? Why are we not allowed to declime the service and do it ourselves if that's the case?
Quote: ZenKinGIf any restaurant says it's mandatory to tip 18%, ask them to show you the statute that makes you liable to pay such tip
They served notice by printing it in the menu. You have the choice not to eat there should you object.
When you eat there, you enter a contract. Restaurant provides you goods at a price according to the menu, and you agree to pay.
Quote: ZenKinGIf any restaurant says it's mandatory to tip 18% based on the number of people you bring, ask them to show you the statute that makes you liable to pay such tip.
One by one we can end this tipping nonense. Just stop tipping and refuse to go back if food prices go up. You will be surprised how restaurants will still.be able to keep the lights on with competitive food prices while still paying their workers a fair wage. I'm also sick of hearing the phrase, 'You're paying for the service' What service? Bringing a plate to my table and filling up my glass with water? Why are we not allowed to declime the service and do it ourselves if that's the case?
As I've already stated, if you were to make a log of the prices before and after that happens, ultimately, your choices will come down to continuing to go to restaurants (in general) or not going to restaurants.
Besides, nobody is forcing you to tip, so I don't know what your issue is. If it's an embarrassment thing, just get carry-out and eat it in your car. You could even tip a buck or two because they bag it up for you, (I think 5% is standard, but don't quote me) so that's a service you can't do yourself.
Quote: billryanNonsense. Just as they can't change the price of the food on you, you can't change the terms of service.
Bad service give them a bad tip like 8 percent. Okay service? 15 percent. Good service? 20 percent. Phenomenal service? 30 percent. :)
Quote: billryanNonsense. Just as they can't change the price of the food on you, you can't change the terms of service.
Terms of service were never signed by the customer, which would make enforcing it or fighting it not worth it for the restaurant. These restaurants would have to rely on an implied contract of sorts saying it was on the menu and that they gave notice, but if I recall I never see any of that on most restaurant menus and customers can just say they never saw it. Customers are not checking a box saying they agree to any contracts or terms held by this restaurant.
The only way restaurants might be able to enforce it is if as soon as someome walks into the restaurant, each customer is notifed about the extra charge before sitting down. The mandatory 18% would also have to be classified as service charges and not tips because tips are voluntary.
Quote: ZenKinGTerms of service were never signed by the customer, which would make enforcing it or fighting it not worth it for the restaurant. These restaurants would have to rely on an implied contract of sorts saying it was on the menu and that they gave notice, but if I recall I never see any of that on most restaurant menus and customers can just say they never saw it. Customers are not checking a box saying they agree to any contracts or terms held by this restaurant.
The only way restaurants might be able to enforce it is if as soon as someome walks into the restaurant, each customer is notifed about the extra charge before sitting down. The mandatory 18% would also have to be classified as service charges and not tips because tips are voluntary.
I have seen checks that clearly state that an 18 percent gratuity is automatically added to the bill. It would suck majorly if the consumer added another 15 percent to that 18 percent blindly. There may be posters on here thinking," What idiot doesn't realize they are paying 33 percent in just tips? "
But it is very possible especially if it's already a big bill, ie a business executives dinner with 20 business executives all eating expensive dinners and one big shot footing the bill and it is all one one gratuity plus taxes. Each executive's dinner comes up to $100 a plate, so $2,000 in just the base meal and in one of my local subcounties they add a 9 percent tip for restaurants, 2 extra percent more of our State tax, so with the 9 percent tax and the 33 percent gratuity, the big shot executive paid almost $2,900 versus almost $2,573. It's very easy to accidentally pay the extra 15 percent tax when it's already a big meal price.
https://www.culvers.com/locator/view-all-locations They make home made ice cream which I am told is delicious. I had the cod, and it was good along with the "home style" soup of the day. I will eat there again. I'm positive the waitress won't mind serving me. I'm told the burgers are "kick butt", thick, juicy and large? Sorry if this sounds like a promotion. I like that I could switch to mashed with gravy, instead of fries.Quote: Mission146I've never heard of it. What's that?
She is a teacher in Wisconsin. I think with 4-5 years tenure. She has decided to retire disabled, I don't know what her disability is? About the cleavage, she does the exposed top dressing style but wears a sweater that can be immediately clutched and closed as if every man wanted to get a look? Also has had a breast reduction but has now gained weight to the point that, that was wasted money. She is an old acquaintance of my wife's. I knew her a little from the past. I have never discussed politics with her, as I was already put off by the sweater clutching. I don't find her attractive, and wouldn't willingly gaze at her breasts. For some reason, redheads are my kryptonite.Quote:She's an idiot, tell her what to do with herself. Like I said, it's people like her that give Democrats, and anyone with Liberal-leanings, in general, a bad name. She's probably the type of person to wear a scoop blouse and accuse you of harassment if your eyes wander a bit.
I thought this election would go as past elections, and once the winner had been decided, life could go back to normal. This one hasn't been fair to us, and it just goes on and on and on. The last time I voted, [2012] I wrote in Ron Paul, if I had voted this election, I would have done the same thing, so it isn't worth the trouble anymore.Quote:I know all about that, I've been jumped on a few times for voting Johnson, "You did this! You're just as responsible as Trump supporters!"
What we both did, was mute or change the channel any time some election material would come on the tv or my screen. All totaled, we haven't watched twenty minutes of Trump, since he had his tv show. Any info I get about him is....tertiary : ).
I had no idea this woman was so political? I'm not. I did like some of T's campaign ploys, such as America first. I did know it was bs, just as I knew Obama was lying in 07. None of them remotely adhere to their campaign promises. BHO and DT both campaigned on getting us out of AFG, with the same results. Old men, [mostly white} declare wars and young people die in them. And the MIC makes billions. I am against wars for empire. So was RP.
Agreed.Quote:There are different levels of, "Lib Camp," just like some Rightists are racists and others are not. Some are varying degrees of racist, some aren't racist at all.
Quote: petroglyphhttps://www.culvers.com/locator/view-all-locations They make home made ice cream which I am told is delicious. I had the cod, and it was good along with the "home style" soup of the day. I will eat there again. I'm positive the waitress won't mind serving me. I'm told the burgers are "kick butt", thick, juicy and large? Sorry if this sounds like a promotion. I like that I could switch to mashed with gravy, instead of fries.
Cool, thanks for the link! I recall hearing of that, now. I think there are some in southwestern Ohio, amongst other places, but I've never been to one. I'll make it a point to check it out sometime, if I ever see one.
Quote:She is a teacher in Wisconsin. I think with 4-5 years tenure. She has decided to retire disabled, I don't know what her disability is? About the cleavage, she does the exposed top dressing style but wears a sweater that can be immediately clutched and closed as if every man wanted to get a look? Also has had a breast reduction but has now gained weight to the point that, that was wasted money. She is an old acquaintance of my wife's. I knew her a little from the past. I have never discussed politics with her, as I was already put off by the sweater clutching. I don't find her attractive, and wouldn't willingly gaze at her breasts. For some reason, redheads are my kryptonite.
My kryptonite is a combination of dark hair and blue eyes. I know a ton of people like that, paranoid because they think people are checking them out. Sometimes they actually are, but I guess one of my few anti-feminist views is that some women think they can put something out there for the eye to see and not expect anyone to ever take a look. Besides, while there are exceptions to be made for extreme leering, or people trying to take advantage of angles or whatever else, generally speaking, an eyeball has never hurt anyone.
Quote:I thought this election would go as past elections, and once the winner had been decided, life could go back to normal. This one hasn't been fair to us, and it just goes on and on and on. The last time I voted, [2012] I wrote in Ron Paul, if I had voted this election, I would have done the same thing, so it isn't worth the trouble anymore.
I'm kind of advocating for that, but it's not going well. It's just part of the huge partisan divide that, for whatever reason, many people seem to believe is likely to accomplish something.
Quote:What we both did, was mute or change the channel any time some election material would come on the tv or my screen. All totaled, we haven't watched twenty minutes of Trump, since he had his tv show. Any info I get about him is....tertiary : ).
The investigations are an interesting angle, but I don't believe I have greater qualifications when it comes to drawing absolute conclusions than the FBI does, so I'm pretty cool with just sitting back and letting them do their thing. Besides, 2020 gets closer every day.
Quote:I had no idea this woman was so political? I'm not. I did like some of T's campaign ploys, such as America first. I did know it was bs, just as I knew Obama was lying in 07. None of them remotely adhere to their campaign promises. BHO and DT both campaigned on getting us out of AFG, with the same results. Old men, [mostly white} declare wars and young people die in them. And the MIC makes billions. I am against wars for empire. So was RP.
Agreed.
So is Gary Johnson!
Quote: Mission146Besides, nobody is forcing you to tip, so I don't know what your issue is. If it's an embarrassment thing, just get carry-out and eat it in your car. You could even tip a buck uor two because they bag it up for you, (I think 5% is standard, but don't quote me) so that's a service you can't do yourself.
I’ve never tipped for a carry out order. What service am I tipping for? Bagging my food? Do you tip the chef for plating your food?
I would be ok with Johnson. Anybody, but the red or blue .Quote: Mission146So is Gary Johnson!
Quote: gamerfreakI’ve never tipped for a carry out order. What service am I tipping for? Bagging my food? Do you tip the chef for plating your food?
Good point. I also agree that takeout orders should not be tipped. Only tip eat in where the Waitress or Waiter is busting their ass getting you the food, refills, is asking you how your meal is. Takeout orders is like you said just them bagging the food.
Quote: Mission146Cool, thanks for the link! I recall hearing of that, now. I think there are some in southwestern Ohio, amongst other places, but I've never been to one. I'll make it a point to check it out sometime, if I ever see one.
My kryptonite is a combination of dark hair and blue eyes. I know a ton of people like that, paranoid because they think people are checking them out. Sometimes they actually are, but I guess one of my few anti-feminist views is that some women think they can put something out there for the eye to see and not expect anyone to ever take a look. Besides, while there are exceptions to be made for extreme leering, or people trying to take advantage of angles or whatever else, generally speaking, an eyeball has never hurt anyone.
Quote:I thought this election would go as past elections, and once the winner had been decided, life could go back to normal. This one hasn't been fair to us, and it just goes on and on and on. The last time I voted, [2012] I wrote in Ron Paul, if I had voted this election, I would have done the same thing, so it isn't worth the trouble anymore.
I'm kind of advocating for that, but it's not going well. It's just part of the huge partisan divide that, for whatever reason, many people seem to believe is likely to accomplish something.
The investigations are an interesting angle, but I don't believe I have greater qualifications when it comes to drawing absolute conclusions than the FBI does, so I'm pretty cool with just sitting back and letting them do their thing. Besides, 2020 gets closer every day.Quote:I had no idea this woman was so political? I'm not. I did like some of T's campaign ploys, such as America first. I did know it was bs, just as I knew Obama was lying in 07. None of them remotely adhere to their campaign promises. BHO and DT both campaigned on getting us out of AFG, with the same results. Old men, [mostly white} declare wars and young people die in them. And the MIC makes billions. I am against wars for empire. So was RP.
Agreed.
So is Gary Johnson!
Obama didn't campaign to get us out of Afghanistan. At least the Obama on my world didn't.
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/Quote: billryanObama didn't campaign to get us out of Afghanistan.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hope-fades-on-obamas-vow-to-bring-troops-home-before-presidency-ends/2015/10/12/cc0daaec-6781-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html?utm_term=.1de697543bfc
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/john-mccain-barack-obama-urge-afghanistan-surge-article-1.351776
KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday that United States needs to focus on Afghanistan in its battle against terrorism.
Sen. Barack Obama and Afghan President Hamid Karzai meet Sunday in Kabul.
"The Afghan government needs to do more. But we have to understand that the situation is precarious and urgent here in Afghanistan. And I believe this has to be our central focus, the central front, on our battle against terrorism," Obama said Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."
"I think one of the biggest mistakes we've made strategically after 9/11 was to fail to finish the job here, focus our attention here. We got distracted by Iraq," he said.
Obama said troop levels must increase in Afghanistan.
"For at least a year now, I have called for two additional brigades, perhaps three," he told CBS. "I think it's very important that we unify command more effectively to coordinate our military activities. But military alone is not going to be enough."
Obama met Sunday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a leader the Democratic senator has criticized for not doing enough to rebuild the war-torn nation.
Did you think the war in Afg. was about terrorism? "All wars are bankers wars" General Smedley Butler.Quote: billryanAnd? Obama campaigned in 2007/2008 to end the war in Iraq by withdrawing the troops and to finish the war in Afghanistan. His plan was a surge in Afganistan
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/john-mccain-barack-obama-urge-afghanistan-surge-article-1.351776
KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday that United States needs to focus on Afghanistan in its battle against terrorism.
Sen. Barack Obama and Afghan President Hamid Karzai meet Sunday in Kabul.
"The Afghan government needs to do more. But we have to understand that the situation is precarious and urgent here in Afghanistan. And I believe this has to be our central focus, the central front, on our battle against terrorism," Obama said Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."
"I think one of the biggest mistakes we've made strategically after 9/11 was to fail to finish the job here, focus our attention here. We got distracted by Iraq," he said.
Obama said troop levels must increase in Afghanistan.
"For at least a year now, I have called for two additional brigades, perhaps three," he told CBS. "I think it's very important that we unify command more effectively to coordinate our military activities. But military alone is not going to be enough."
Obama met Sunday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a leader the Democratic senator has criticized for not doing enough to rebuild the war-torn nation.
Opium production in Afg. is up over 3000% since we occupied it. https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spoils-of-war-afghanistan-s-multibillion-dollar-heroin-trade/91
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghanistan-s-vast-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769 A trillion dollars worth of minerals that China has been mining right along side while we waged war?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan%E2%80%93Afghanistan%E2%80%93Pakistan%E2%80%93India_Pipeline
I remember him saying so, whether he did or not? I don't see a link so you win on removal from just Afg., we have never left Iraq, except in name only. Obama still owns Libya, Syria and Yemen and places we don't even know the names.
