The Adventures of MDawg II
Quote: MDawgThe advantage would lie in trying to make it seem like you LOST when actually, you won. Why would anyone want to appear as though he won, when in fact he lost? And anyway, since you're so darned knowledgeable about table games why don't you tell us exactly how it would be done?
You're just completely in the, uh, DARK (like your first name) on this one. It's not done, it's just not possible. Might be able to fudge results a bit to make it seem like you won a little less than you did, but to play hundreds of sessions above board and consistently make them show as something utterly different from what they were cannot happen, would not happen. And that's coming from the Pope of Las Vegas.
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I am not a table games expert and have stated my forte for years. Nonetheless I am aware of many situations that can be faked and I am certain there are plenty I am unaware of. Case in point that RFID situation I first learned about in that documentary.
To state it's impossible to fake results shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.
As to why someone would want to fake wins there may be any number of reasons. For example, someone with unexplained income may fake wins to launder their money..
Some casinos reward players who win with better comps (to get them back so they lose it ala that scene in Casino.). Faking wins would result then in better comps.
Again, the fact you can't even comprehend reasons for faking wins shows you probably are not using advantage play techniques or are seriously behind in AP knowledge.
Quote: darkozSome casinos reward players who win with better comps
Do tell !
What it somewhat comes down to, is, to even begin to accept anything that the DarkO offers as true, an entire reality shift is needed. We'd have to assume that MDawg is not a credit line player, that MDawg does not play alone at private tables, that MDawg has some kind of motive as a credit line player for appearing as a winner when actually he is a loser, and so on, an entire shift of the actual circumstances of MDawg's play, in order to even begin to arrive at the preposterous "MDawg is able to manipulate the results at hundreds of table game sessions per year per resort." If that's all he's got to try to dispel MDawg's WIN statements, then he'd best allow that there's a new boss of Las Vegas.
Quote: MDawgDarkO is just piling conjecture upon conjecture without providing any even partial mechanism for achieving what he claims is possible. Which it is not, definitely not over hundreds of sessions per year, which is what I play.
What it somewhat comes down to, is, to even begin to accept anything that the DarkO offers as true, an entire reality shift is needed. We'd have to assume that MDawg is not a credit line player, that MDawg does not play alone at private tables, that MDawg has some kind of motive as a credit line player for appearing as a winner when actually he is a loser, and so on, an entire shift of the actual circumstances of MDawg's play, in order to even begin to arrive at the preposterous "MDawg is able to manipulate the results at hundreds of table game sessions per year per resort." If that's all he's got to try to dispel MDawg's WIN statements, then he'd best allow that there's a new boss of Las Vegas.
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Lol, well those are actually more reasonable assumptions than MDawg wins at -EV games using stop loss and gets comps in perpetuity from hosts who never care about players showing a profit.
As Sherlock Holmes says, "eliminate the impossible, and whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth."
You are in error! You did not discover your mistake; you have made two errors. You are flawed and imperfect, and you have not corrected by sterilization; you've made three errors!
Nomad : [starting to have a meltdown over this] Error?
And for that reason alone I can understand why Mdawg is still comped.
In fact, if Mdawg has broken no CASINO RULES and wins by making few huge bets I think it is very likely casinos will want him back and will lure him back with comps and offers.
Years ago I was told by a Caesars exec that a player who plays short bursts, wins big, and quits is identified as a major whale waiting to be harpooned. I think that fits Mdawg.
As long as Mdawg plays hit and run they'll be welcoming him back. As long as he quits when ahead he's got the ideal AP play working... an AP the casinos want.
Quote: MDawgIt's also absurd to claim, especially without proof, that it is possible to change the pit boss' reported outcome of table game results. Most of the sessions I've played the pit boss has very accurately reported the final results. Sometimes it might be off a little, as in a few percent. It is nearly impossible that hundreds of sessions over the course of a year could all be reported incorrectly to any degree that would matter.
Anyone who says it is possible to "fake" table game reported results is just saying so with no basis for his thoughts, and probably isn't even much of a table game player anyway. Nowadays too, at casinos such as Resorts World Vegas nothing but manual override is left to human hands and everything is tracked electronically via the RFID embedded chips themselves. When I first started playing at RW Vegas there were some bugs in the system but over time I haven't seen the pit bosses have to step in to do much of anything as far as bet tracking as the system has been working nearly flawlessly.
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Gotta disagree with you here. At YOUR level it may be true, but not at MY level. I’ve ‘rat holed’ chips to make my small ($$$) win look like a small ($$$) loss many times. I’m pretty sure for the few green or occasionally black chips we are talking about the pit boss is unaware. So when I won $200 it is reported as a loss of $100, or some such. I am not sure that it matters, but I like the casino to think I’m losing instead of winning. Pretty sure it helped my Caesars offers some years back.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: MDawgIt's also absurd to claim, especially without proof, that it is possible to change the pit boss' reported outcome of table game results. Most of the sessions I've played the pit boss has very accurately reported the final results. Sometimes it might be off a little, as in a few percent. It is nearly impossible that hundreds of sessions over the course of a year could all be reported incorrectly to any degree that would matter.
Anyone who says it is possible to "fake" table game reported results is just saying so with no basis for his thoughts, and probably isn't even much of a table game player anyway. Nowadays too, at casinos such as Resorts World Vegas nothing but manual override is left to human hands and everything is tracked electronically via the RFID embedded chips themselves. When I first started playing at RW Vegas there were some bugs in the system but over time I haven't seen the pit bosses have to step in to do much of anything as far as bet tracking as the system has been working nearly flawlessly.
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Gotta disagree with you here. At YOUR level it may be true, but not at MY level. I’ve ‘rat holed’ chips to make my small ($$$) win look like a small ($$$) loss many times. I’m pretty sure for the few green or occasionally black chips we are talking about the pit boss is unaware. So when I won $200 it is reported as a loss of $100, or some such. I am not sure that it matters, but I like the casino to think I’m losing instead of winning. Pretty sure it helped my Caesars offers some years back.
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The mistake MDawg makes is the same mistake casinos make. That electronically automated tracking systems protect the casino taking human oversight and errors out of the equation thereby making the system AP proof.
It's literally one hundred percent the opposite. I love Player tracking systems. They are the basis upon how my system of AP works.
Identify how the tracking works. Identify how to override it. Identify how to profit from that. Do it once using ABC steps. Do it once, then twice, then thousands of times.
Human oversight IN the equation is what I fear. A human sees how much I can override the safeguard, he immediately realizes the system is failed and cancels my work.
Automated tracking systems have no intelligence. Beat it once, you can beat it a million times and it will just allow you to do so like the robotic Dodo it is.
As usual the DarkO is in way over his head with ceaselessly bantering about something he has no personal experience with and knows less than nothing about. Also as usual it’s a mistake to engage with someone who wants to talk and talk without knowing anything. Should go back to arguing about how penny stocks are lifesavers - but, oh! his knowing less than nothing about stocks hasn’t stopped him from making hundreds of uninformative posts on that subject too.
Quote: MDawgOf course SooPoo is talking about exactly what I mentioned - trying to make it appear as though one lost when actually one won and in any case about a minuscule shift of a hundred or two hundred dollars in a very small amount of sessions at a low end crowded table compared to the hundreds if not thousands of high level private sessions that add up to reported wins for me. “I did this….” doesn’t translate to an ongoing thing.
As usual the DarkO is in way over his head with ceaselessly bantering about something he has no personal experience with and knows less than nothing about. Also as usual it’s a mistake to engage with someone who wants to talk and talk without knowing anything. Should go back to arguing about how penny stocks are lifesavers - but, oh! his knowing less than nothing about stocks hasn’t stopped him from making hundreds of uninformative posts on that subject too.
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Hey MacDog, I noticed you went back to repeatedly mispellling my handle. Two years ago you kept calling me Darkov and now it's Darko.
Be an adult, (you are a lawyer right) and be respectful and spell my handle properly. You have mispellednit in multiple posts now so it's not typos.
When I make you look bad, trying to mispell my handle name on purpose to strike back is really childish and unbecoming of an attorney at law.
Okay MDawg.
His motivation? He claims he gets comped 35% of Theo as opposed to 10% of actual losses so he always makes certain to only have theoretical losses (has he inadvertently given his AP strategy away?)
Now if the 35% of Theo gets him comps that add up to a profit on a recurring basis on just his card by him hiding his losses from a lousy 10% actual loss to the casino I would agree that is an AP move.
It still would result in a falsified win document.
It's fascinating that MDawg keeps asking why anyone would want to falsify a win while discussing how his comps are better from Theo losses than actual losses. Hmmm!
We've seen MDawg rack up 50 x $25K markers in a limited time, I assume all but the last one or two were fully paid off as the trip went along, meanwhile he's keeping chips and cash in his room. He is keeping up the appearance of having an outstanding balance on his markers somehow, so the casino thinks he's not winning yet and they'll comp him one way or another.
Alan, has there ever been a Craps tournament?
Quote: darkozQuote: MDawgOf course SooPoo is talking about exactly what I mentioned - trying to make it appear as though one lost when actually one won and in any case about a minuscule shift of a hundred or two hundred dollars in a very small amount of sessions at a low end crowded table compared to the hundreds if not thousands of high level private sessions that add up to reported wins for me. “I did this….” doesn’t translate to an ongoing thing.
As usual the DarkO is in way over his head with ceaselessly bantering about something he has no personal experience with and knows less than nothing about. Also as usual it’s a mistake to engage with someone who wants to talk and talk without knowing anything. Should go back to arguing about how penny stocks are lifesavers - but, oh! his knowing less than nothing about stocks hasn’t stopped him from making hundreds of uninformative posts on that subject too.
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Hey MacDog, I noticed you went back to repeatedly mispellling my handle. Two years ago you kept calling me Darkov and now it's Darko.
Be an adult, (you are a lawyer right) and be respectful and spell my handle properly. You have mispellednit in multiple posts now so it's not typos.
When I make you look bad, trying to mispell my handle name on purpose to strike back is really childish and unbecoming of an attorney at law.
Okay MDawg.
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Dog is new to the comp hustle. IMO anyone who brags about dinners and suites is somehow impressed by them lol. Social status queues .. society has conditioned most to brag about such things. Let me know when you have beat the casino comp game for more then 25 million in actual cash. Bring receipts I will bring mine, and take up your challenge. I’m about to retire from this game anyway so it would be fun. 🥱 Nothing less then 25 million . There’s levels to this
Amazing that we have a player who won 25M and yet no one has heard of him. Actually, I glanced at a couple of your posts and seems like for all that, you never even made it to Vegas, remained stuck in the regional low end casinos of back East? or did I misread.
Actually, the opposite is true as far as getting enjoyment out of comps. It doesn't matter what your net worth might be or not be, getting something for free is always a bell ringer. Been doing this for a couple decades or so and it never gets old. If you claim to have been doing it longer than a couple decades, then you're simply...old.
Although of course, winning is #1, getting comps, a distant second. I win at the tables, and my wife (and in the past girlfriends) get to enjoy most of the benefits.
Quote: MDawgWould love! to hear about how you beat the casinos for over 25M. That would place you in the grailed territory of Kerry Packer, although, he won and lost, lot of up and down with his play. I heard about how he won 33M at MGM, was present the two trips when he dumped all that and more at the Bellagio.
Amazing that we have a player who won 25M and yet no one has heard of him. Actually, I glanced at a couple of your posts and seems like for all that, you never even made it to Vegas, remained stuck in the regional low end casinos of back East? or did I misread.
Actually, the opposite is true as far as getting enjoyment out of comps. It doesn't matter what your net worth might be or not be, getting something for free is always a bell ringer. Been doing this for a couple decades and it never gets old. If you claim to have been doing it longer than a couple decades, then you're simply...old.
Although of course, winning is #1, getting comps, a distant second. I win at the tables, and my wife (and in the past girlfriends) get to enjoy most of the benefits.
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As he said you appear new to the comp game. When someone claims millions in comps they don't mean in two visits.
I have definitely taken millions in comps in aggregate over the years.
Also millions in comps doesn't mean millions in cash although I have definitely made in the millions doing it.
I have stated before that for all the comps you receive, you are being under comped! Unfortunately you don't understand why and I won't explain it to you.
It's an OR situation, the greater of. And theo is calculated at all times. I'd get into more detail, but...why. If the previous two short sentences don't get you to thinking where you were completely in the dark and wrong, there is little hope for you. It's obvious that both you and seedvalue don't understand how any of this works at the tables.
And flat out winning remains my #1 goal, which I have achieved to a level that is good enough for me, especially given that I don't do this for a living, just for fun.
Meantime, back at the MDawg Ranch things continue as usual, swimmingly. With or without comment from people who have no idea what they are talking about it, and prove it through their posts.
Quote: MDawgIt's not worth responding to you when you don't understand how theo is calculated. Or applied to comps. Which is why I pretty much ignored you lately.
It's an OR situation, the greater of. And theo is calculated at all times. I'd get into more detail, but...why. If the previous two short sentences don't get you to thinking where you were completely in the dark and wrong, there is little hope for you. It's obvious that both you and seedvalue don't understand how any of this works at the tables.
And flat out winning remains my #1 goal, which I have achieved to a level that is good enough for me, especially given that I don't do this for a living, just for fun.
Meantime, back at the MDawg Ranch things continue as usual, swimmingly. With or without comment from people who have no idea what they are talking about it, and prove it through their posts.
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Yeah I don't understand how Theo is calculated. Biggest joke of the year. Didn't know you had a possibility in stand-up comedy.
This coming from a guy who thinks my advantage is to use $10 new members sign-ups.
If you truly understood Theo and how it works you would understand what I do and how you have been undercomped for years now.
Even your host will probably admit that at the level you are gambling at the casino cannot comp you at the proper level. I.E., you are being undercomped.
Quote: darkozLet's say for argument sake that MDawg doesn't fake wins as much as hide losses.
His motivation? He claims he gets comped 35% of Theo as opposed to 10% of actual losses so he always makes certain to only have theoretical losses (has he inadvertently given his AP strategy away?)
Now if the 35% of Theo gets him comps that add up to a profit on a recurring basis on just his card by him hiding his losses from a lousy 10% actual loss to the casino I would agree that is an AP move.
It still would result in a falsified win document.
It's fascinating that MDawg keeps asking why anyone would want to falsify a win while discussing how his comps are better from Theo losses than actual losses. Hmmm!
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This post demonstrates that you have no idea how theo is calculated, or comps. That you can't even realize how or where you are in error, further cements the disclosure of your lack of knowledge in this arena.
It pretty much adds up to three errors. Must sterilize!
This is right up there with Show me the CTR! More definitive in fact.
Quote: darkozQuote: MDawgIt's not worth responding to you when you don't understand how theo is calculated. Or applied to comps. Which is why I pretty much ignored you lately.
It's an OR situation, the greater of. And theo is calculated at all times. I'd get into more detail, but...why. If the previous two short sentences don't get you to thinking where you were completely in the dark and wrong, there is little hope for you. It's obvious that both you and seedvalue don't understand how any of this works at the tables.
And flat out winning remains my #1 goal, which I have achieved to a level that is good enough for me, especially given that I don't do this for a living, just for fun.
Meantime, back at the MDawg Ranch things continue as usual, swimmingly. With or without comment from people who have no idea what they are talking about it, and prove it through their posts.
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Yeah I don't understand how Theo is calculated. Biggest joke of the year. Didn't know you had a possibility in stand-up comedy.
This coming from a guy who thinks my advantage is to use $10 new members sign-ups.
If you truly understood Theo and how it works you would understand what I do and how you have been undercomped for years now.
Even your host will probably admit that at the level you are gambling at the casino cannot comp you at the proper level. I.E., you are being undercomped.
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How would you possibly know what MDawg’s theoreticall loss is? How would you know exactly how many promo chips he gets, how many free tourney entries, how many Visa gift cards, how many rooms for friends, how much towards his airfare, how many gifts and their value…. And how would you possibly know how long he plays, at what average bet, how much on high house edge tie, etc…. To say he is undercomped or overcomped is just a silly guess.
Since you said he is undercomped, just tell me how many hours he plays per day at what average bet? I’ve read all his stories and I’d just be making nothing more than a guess. With not enough data to make it a good guess.
But actual loss is a separate tally that is calculated where applicable only.
If he understood how these two are calculated, then he wouldn't propose something as ridiculous as that showing a win versus a loss would result in higher comps. The theo loss doesn't change based on a win, or a loss.
The player gets one OR the other at the end of the trip, whichever is more beneficial to the player. 35% of theo, OR 10% of actual, whichever comes out higher. So his quaint idea of trying to avoid losses so that the comps will end up higher, shows a clear failure to understand how any of this works.
Quote: darkozLet's say for argument sake that MDawg doesn't fake wins as much as hide losses.
His motivation? He claims he gets comped 35% of Theo as opposed to 10% of actual losses so he always makes certain to only have theoretical losses (has he inadvertently given his AP strategy away?)
Now if the 35% of Theo gets him comps that add up to a profit on a recurring basis on just his card by him hiding his losses from a lousy 10% actual loss to the casino I would agree that is an AP move.
It still would result in a falsified win document.
It's fascinating that MDawg keeps asking why anyone would want to falsify a win while discussing how his comps are better from Theo losses than actual losses. Hmmm!
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There is no shame in not knowing something. If I don't know something, I say nothing.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: MDawgIt's not worth responding to you when you don't understand how theo is calculated. Or applied to comps. Which is why I pretty much ignored you lately.
It's an OR situation, the greater of. And theo is calculated at all times. I'd get into more detail, but...why. If the previous two short sentences don't get you to thinking where you were completely in the dark and wrong, there is little hope for you. It's obvious that both you and seedvalue don't understand how any of this works at the tables.
And flat out winning remains my #1 goal, which I have achieved to a level that is good enough for me, especially given that I don't do this for a living, just for fun.
Meantime, back at the MDawg Ranch things continue as usual, swimmingly. With or without comment from people who have no idea what they are talking about it, and prove it through their posts.
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Yeah I don't understand how Theo is calculated. Biggest joke of the year. Didn't know you had a possibility in stand-up comedy.
This coming from a guy who thinks my advantage is to use $10 new members sign-ups.
If you truly understood Theo and how it works you would understand what I do and how you have been undercomped for years now.
Even your host will probably admit that at the level you are gambling at the casino cannot comp you at the proper level. I.E., you are being undercomped.
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How would you possibly know what MDawg’s theoreticall loss is? How would you know exactly how many promo chips he gets, how many free tourney entries, how many Visa gift cards, how many rooms for friends, how much towards his airfare, how many gifts and their value…. And how would you possibly know how long he plays, at what average bet, how much on high house edge tie, etc…. To say he is undercomped or overcomped is just a silly guess.
Since you said he is undercomped, just tell me how many hours he plays per day at what average bet? I’ve read all his stories and I’d just be making nothing more than a guess. With not enough data to make it a good guess.
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Soopoo,
My entire operation is based on an understanding of Theo loss, and how to maximize offers.
Using my own Player card if I wanted to play at MDawg level I could get the exact same comps for one sixtieth the action.
I have obtained freeplay on players cards $150 a day seven days a week and it cost me $25 per card total!
MDawg is severely undercomped because if he had the ability to multi-card he could multiply those same offers by multiples of hundreds.
If I had three $250 lost buy-ins after 4 hours, they'd comp me $75 right? That'd be more than the 1/3rd of the theo comp, but my loss was 10X theo.
Seems some charts are in order to figure out how much you can lose in 4 hours to qualify for the 10% loss over the theo loss comp.
However, it's more a guideline than a rule
if you earn sufficient theo to justify your comps you could earn it in minutes or hours just depends on your average bet.
Or if you lose sufficiently such that 10% of your actual loss ends up more than 35-40% of your theoretical loss, you will earn your comps that way.
Quote: MDawgThe "four hour rule" is just a rule of thumb that casino hosts give their players, suggesting four hours of a play at a decent average bet in order to qualify for whatever comp level they are at.
However, it's more a guideline than a rule
if you earn sufficient theo to justify your comps you could earn it in minutes or hours just depends on your average bet.
Or if you lose sufficiently such that 10% of your actual loss ends up more than 35-40% of your theoretical loss, you will earn your comps that way.
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So you are saying a whale goes in and has one million dollars in Theo in one session he will be comped $350,000?
And if he actually loses one million dollars but doesn't make the Theo he will only be comped $100,000?
Quote: MDawgAs the title implies, this is a discussion about how to keep comps going in casinos, beyond the typically weekend, or few day long trip. As someone who has spent now a half year in Vegas suites without paying for anything, and has done more or less the same thing going back years, I am well qualified to comment on this.
First let’s discuss the two ways that casinos comp players. Obviously, play must be rated, via a Player Card, so anyone playing under the radar is not going to get any comps, let alone understand the comp system.
Comps are used to pay for a player’s stay related expenses while in a resort, expenses such as room food beverage (the three RFBs), spa & salon (massage, skincare, haircuts and styling, manicure, pedicure, etc.), events (concerts, sports, and so on) and, at the upper limit of the comp spectrum, special activities arranged for the player.
A player’s casino action also results in invitations to special events, tournaments and the receipt of gift cards, promotional (free play) chips at the tables, or free spin play at slots. Some casinos build up points or “casino dollars” based on play that may be used to buy food and retail at either casino shops, or online.
Comps are handed out based on two different bases:
1) Actual loss. Typically 10% of an actual loss is available for a player’s comps.
a. This was up to 15% during certain periods, such as for example last year during COVID some resorts were giving 15% of actual loss, but 10% is the norm.
2) Theoretical (theo) loss. Typically 35% and up to 40% of a player’s theoretical loss is available for comps. Theo loss is calculated based on what the player is expected to lose, based on average bet times number of hours played against whatever the house edge is on the game being played.
For a weekend or other relatively short play, either of these will do to cover a guest’s resort expenses. But for extended plays, really the only sustainable or even viable way to keep the comp machine going is via comps earned via theoretical loss action.
Actual loss, when considering high end casino stays in, for example, $1000. a night suites, notwithstanding food and beverage charges, just won’t sustain an extended stay. For example, to cover a 10 day long stay in a casino in a large suite, about $15,000. in comps are needed, if it is a nice stay with decent food and spa services included. To earn $15,000. in comps via a loss, $150,000. in actual loss is needed – and most players don’t even have credit lines or cash available to gamble at that level, let alone are able to afford losing $150K in the first place.
When you get into stay lengths of longer than 10 days, it becomes even more unlikely that a player would be earning his keep via actual loss, as the required loss numbers to earn all those comps pile up even higher.
No, what really earns the comps, and keeps the comp machine going, is not loss, but action, that is, play that results in either a win, or just the average loss attributable to the house edge.
Typically, player club points and casino dollars, too, are earned at a high rate pretty much by play, via theoretical loss, not via actual loss.
For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps. $30K in comps is more than enough to cover a very long stay, even a month long stay, if the suite is coming in at say, $600. or even $800. a day (which remember - sometimes the rate of which the suite is calculated for purposes of comps is lower than the "rack rate" which a non-gaming hotel guest might have to pay for the suite), which leaves room for food beverage and spa too.
And this is why, one guy might sit at the table and lose five grand, and get $500. in comps, and another might sit at the table, win barely $200., and earn a theo loss which would result in higher comps. Theo loss is the way to go, for max comps.
Granted, if you want to dine on caviar daily, in a villa, even this model is not going to work as far as keeping the perpetual comp machine going, unless you step up your average bet even higher than a thousand a hand. But the perpetual comp machine model – always involves building up theoretical loss. Blowouts do not lead to much comps. Continued play, does.
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Quote: MDawgThere are multiple tournaments going on in May and June in Vegas - blackjack and baccarat, some occurring on the same weekends. Well, not the first time I have participated in more than one tournament on the same day. All free entry, and on most I am auto-moved to at least the quarter finals, such that all I have to do is advance once to be in the money. Once you get to this level it is a well oiled Perpetual Comp Machine.
Alan, has there ever been a Craps tournament?
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There are craps tournaments about once a year at each big casino. No big deal.
But one tournament stands out in my memory. About 20 years ago at Caesars. Only 16 players. One table. Winner was paid $10k cash. That's all. It was 20 years ago. They used a table in the private gaming area in a private room. At 8am on a Saturday. Coffee and Danish only.
That was nothing compared to what casinos put on today.
Weekend trips, relatively short trips, sure. But to stay in casinos for months at a time the way we have, theoretical loss is the only way to go, and that is notwithtstanding the fact that no one wants to lose, but it would have taken millions in actual loss to sustain the world record length ultra high level casino trip we experienced last year. I met with the Wizard more than a few times during that trip and even before it was over he was saying that this is the longest Vegas trip he had ever heard of. But time flies when you're having fun!
Quote: AlanMendelsonRight now the big difference between Darkoz and Mdawg is that Mdawg has said nothing about breaking CASINO RULES.
And for that reason alone I can understand why Mdawg is still comped.
In fact, if Mdawg has broken no CASINO RULES and wins by making few huge bets I think it is very likely casinos will want him back and will lure him back with comps and offers.
Years ago I was told by a Caesars exec that a player who plays short bursts, wins big, and quits is identified as a major whale waiting to be harpooned. I think that fits Mdawg.
As long as Mdawg plays hit and run they'll be welcoming him back. As long as he quits when ahead he's got the ideal AP play working... an AP the casinos want.
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Okay now the most interesting post I have read in a long time just came across my screen a bit ago.
To summarize, a guy on another casino type forum just posted that he set up a coin flip in a small town where people would bet him in coin flips.
If they won the flip, he would pay them $800. If he won the flip they would pay him $1000.
The rule of play though was that: he had to play as long as they wanted but they could quit anytime.
Even though this guy had a positive EV on the coin flips due to the 200 difference in payouts on a 50/50 proposition it just wasn’t enough to overcome their ability to quit while they were ahead.
One after another they would line up and if they won their first coin flip for $800 they would just lock up their winnings and leave for the day $800 richer at his expense.
If they lost the $1,000 on the first flip often they would stop loss out for the day and not come back again until the next day.
The poster says that really there was no way for him to make money on this.
Now granted, I assume this is a complete hypothetical, posted in jest, but still, it's an interesting post.
What I have always said, and this is real world, is that if they lowered the commission on Baccarat to say 2.8%, still there would be droves of high rollers such as the ones I see in the casinos regularly, who would still just play to blowout every trip - get in the hole some, chase, chase even more, and refuse to get up and leave until they were blown out for that trip. Then come back the next trip with another "all or nothing" attitude and keep chasing until they lost it all, and come back the next trip even more in the hole, more determined than ever to get even or bust, and blowout again. In other words, there really are some types of players that even given a 50-50 game will still just play until they lose pretty much every time, if not every time.
You just cannot explain the high rollers who dump millions and then come back weeks later to do exactly the same, and then do that time and time again, pretty much never winning, simply by the house edge.
Quote: darkoz
I have obtained freeplay on players cards $150 a day seven days a week and it cost me $25 per card total!
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This needs to be preserved as the greatest of all time casino accomplishment.
Quote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonRight now the big difference between Darkoz and Mdawg is that Mdawg has said nothing about breaking CASINO RULES.
And for that reason alone I can understand why Mdawg is still comped.
In fact, if Mdawg has broken no CASINO RULES and wins by making few huge bets I think it is very likely casinos will want him back and will lure him back with comps and offers.
Years ago I was told by a Caesars exec that a player who plays short bursts, wins big, and quits is identified as a major whale waiting to be harpooned. I think that fits Mdawg.
As long as Mdawg plays hit and run they'll be welcoming him back. As long as he quits when ahead he's got the ideal AP play working... an AP the casinos want.
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Okay now the most interesting post I have read in a long time just came across my screen a bit ago.
To summarize, a guy on another casino type forum just posted that he set up a coin flip in a small town where people would bet him in coin flips.
If they won the flip, he would pay them $800. If he won the flip they would pay him $1000.
The rule of play though was that: he had to play as long as they wanted but they could quit anytime.
Even though this guy had a positive EV on the coin flips due to the 200 difference in payouts on a 50/50 proposition it just wasn’t enough to overcome their ability to quit while they were ahead.
One after another they would line up and if they won their first coin flip for $800 they would just lock up their winnings and leave for the day $800 richer at his expense.
If they lost the $1,000 on the first flip often they would stop loss out for the day and not come back again until the next day.
The poster says that really there was no way for him to make money on this.
Now granted, I assume this is a complete hypothetical, posted in jest, but still, it's an interesting post.
What I have always said, and this is real world, is that if they lowered the commission on Baccarat to say 2.8%, still there would be droves of high rollers such as the ones I see in the casinos regularly, who would still just play to blowout every trip - get in the hole some, chase, chase even more, and refuse to get up and leave until they were blown out for that trip. Then come back the next trip with another "all or nothing" attitude and keep chasing until they lost it all, and come back the next trip even more in the hole, more determined than ever to get even or bust, and blowout again. In other words, there really are some types of players that even given a 50-50 game will still just play until they lose pretty much every time, if not every time.
You just cannot explain the high rollers who dump millions and then come back weeks later to do exactly the same, and then do that time and time again, pretty much never winning, simply by the house edge.
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Bold added. I don’t understand. Sounds like everyone just plays one flip a day win or lose. What’s that have to do with “quitting while ahead”’advantage?
Or is the “often” misleading and the magic is what happened not often? Just legit confused about the hypo.
Quote: MDawgWell, what if I gave you a coin toss with the condition that you could not leave until you lost. If you won the first one, you had to lay all that you won on the next flip. And so on, until you lost. You could not leave until you lost an all in toss. What would the end result be, every time?
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Is that the hypo I bolded? Seems completely different reverse martingale instead where almost every time I lose a unit but some minuscule fraction of the time I win all the money in the world.
In my hypo you'd lose every time because there are no limits to how many times you may flip the coin, just the condition is that you must flip until you lose. The reason I brought it up is that's the way a lot of players I see at the casino play, they just start the trip with whatever bankroll and then won't leave until it's all gone.
Quote: MDawgWell no it's not the same hypo. That's my hypo. I can't entirely comment on the first hypo because I just quoted it I didn't create it.
In my hypo you'd lose every time because there are no limits to how many times you may flip the coin, just the condition is that you must flip until you lose. The reason I brought it up is that's the way a lot of players I see at the casino play, they just start the trip with whatever bankroll and then won't leave until it's all gone.
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Yes, agree if there’s infinite money then you lose a unit every time.
Quote: MDawg
What I have always said, and this is real world, is that if they lowered the commission on Baccarat to say 2.8%, still there would be droves of high rollers such as the ones I see in the casinos regularly, who would still just play to blowout every trip - get in the hole some, chase, chase even more, and refuse to get up and leave until they were blown out for that trip. Then come back the next trip with another "all or nothing" attitude and keep chasing until they lost it all, and come back the next trip even more in the hole, more determined than ever to get even or bust, and blowout again. In other words, there really are some types of players that even given a 50-50 game will still just play until they lose pretty much every time, if not every time.
You just cannot explain the high rollers who dump millions and then come back weeks later to do exactly the same, and then do that time and time again, pretty much never winning, simply by the house edge.
link to original post
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkoz
I have obtained freeplay on players cards $150 a day seven days a week and it cost me $25 per card total!
link to original post
This needs to be preserved as the greatest of all time casino accomplishment.
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It's variance. No one ever talks about negative variance, just the positive.
Just like even-money roulette, player baccarat, craps pass line. Except their edges are much lower than 10% and you can bet (almost) any amount you likeQuote: MDawg
If they won the flip, he would pay them $800. If he won the flip they would pay him $1000.
The rule of play though was that: he had to play as long as they wanted but they could quit anytime.
Set any stopping point you want and it won’t affect the edge
Quote: MDawgWould love! to hear about how you beat the casinos for over 25M. That would place you in the grailed territory of Kerry Packer, although, he won and lost, lot of up and down with his play. I heard about how he won 33M at MGM, was present the two trips when he dumped all that and more at the Bellagio.
Amazing that we have a player who won 25M and yet no one has heard of him. Actually, I glanced at a couple of your posts and seems like for all that, you never even made it to Vegas, remained stuck in the regional low end casinos of back East? or did I misread.
Actually, the opposite is true as far as getting enjoyment out of comps. It doesn't matter what your net worth might be or not be, getting something for free is always a bell ringer. Been doing this for a couple decades or so and it never gets old. If you claim to have been doing it longer than a couple decades, then you're simply...old.
Although of course, winning is #1, getting comps, a distant second. I win at the tables, and my wife (and in the past girlfriends) get to enjoy most of the benefits.
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Yeah that’s it only back east lol. I have worked over 300 casinos in the country including ALL of Vegas. I’m 48 yes Maybe that’s old to you idk. No one has heard of me by design. There’s clout chasers and advantage players. You just don’t know what you are talking about in regards to basically everything about comps / Theo all of it. You regurgitate host speak 🗣.
25 million is probably low. The beginning of 2021 my crew beat a casino out of 1.3 million in 60 days. Basically their entire marketing budget for the Quarter causing a near collapse of the promotional club. Ask around about how much free play and promotional chips were available at a certain NEW property back east after the first three months of 2021: I’m what they call player x my crew are essentially ghost.
I been Watching you go on and on for the last few years about beating Vegas casino. I have no doubt you may have beat them it’s not exactly hard to do. However your knowledge of Theo / promotions / promo chips Is very limited. Some
of it is just totally false.
If I had to bet my net worth on who has made more gambling you or Darkoz I would bet it all on Darkoz without hesitation.
* it is my belief that you would get no one to take the bet
* one experiment was the opposite, and this was a published thing. The proposition was basically the opposite, although for only a dollar vs 80c or something similar. But the guy making the proposition was only going to get 80c while paying out a dollar. He found people rejected the bet and tried to make the case that people are so stupid they can't recognize +EV when they see it
* however, he was just going around a public park making the proposition. I defend the people refusing to participate, rejecting it as "too good to be true" ... that there was some reason they would get gypped and coudn't see it yet
Someone made a thread here about it, years ago. I'll try to look for it
Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm learning new things all the time... like teams beating the casinos for $25-million. Who knew?
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Phil Ivey took the Borgata for ten million in a few days and that was just a two man team.
But I believe he was referring to an aggregate amount of many casinos over many years.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonI'm learning new things all the time... like teams beating the casinos for $25-million. Who knew?
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Phil Ivey took the Borgata for ten million in a few days and that was just a two man team.
But I believe he was referring to an aggregate amount of many casinos over many years.
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That made the news.
This team did it without making the news. Who new?
