FinsRule's Blog
EZ Pai Gow Review
I finally got over to Ameristar St. Louis this weekend to try No Commission Pai Gow.EZ Pai Gow, is Pai Gow Poker, except there is no 5% commission charged. In exchange for that advantage, all hands push if the dealer has a Queen High Pai Gow. (A hand with no pairs, no straight, no flush, and a queen being the highest card)
The overall net effect of these changes does result in a slight house edge increase.
I enjoyed the game a lot, and if given the choice, I would always play No Commission instead of regular.
As I sat down at the table, I was immediately surprised by the number of betting circles. There are 6. One for a "red" bet, one for a "black" bet, one for a "Pai Gow" insurance bet, one for the "Dynasty Bonus", one for the regular bet, and one for the "Queen's Dragon" bet. All bets are optional except for the Regular Pai Gow bet.
I am an experienced Pai Gow player, and the layout of the table was intimidating to me. I can only imagine someone who has never played before, not wanting to sit down because of all the betting circles. This leads me to believe that this version of Pai Gow is more for experienced Pai Gow players, instead of newbies.
I'll explain all the bets.
The black and red bets are identical. You are simply guessing if you will have more red cards or black cards. If you bet red, and you get 4, 5, or 6 red cards, you win even money. If you get 7 red cards, you get 5-1. Black is the same. The house edge on this bet is very small, perhaps the smallest house edge of any side bet. (I won't use other's math, but you can see wizardofodds.com for the exact numbers)
I had fun playing this bet for $1. I was only losing an average of around 2.5 cents per bet, and I had fun with it. A few times I would make a bet for the dealers on black, and make a bet for myself on red. The dealers thought this was very funny, as they were hoping they would beat me to get their $2.
The Pai Gow insurance bet has a higher house edge, around what the dynasty bet's is. An Ace high pai gow pays 3:1, K pays 5:1, Q pays 7:1, J pays 15:1, 10 pays 25:1 and 9 pays 100:1 (I think I'm remembering right). I played this a few times, and never got worse than a K high.
The Dynasty bet is very close to the same as the fortune bet in the traditional game. No need for more explanation.
The Queen's Dragon bet pays 50:1 if the dealer gets a Q high Pai Gow. I played this bet one time last night for $1, and won $50!. Then I played once more and lost the $1. Since I made $50 last night, it can basically all be attributed to the Queen's Dragon. The house edge on this bet is over 10%, and I don't play it generally.
Then the traditional Pai Gow bet is the same, except that it pays even money. So I played a couple of hands for $12 and $11, just because I could. It was fun.
The players all seemed to like not having commission, but not many people were playing the red/black bet. Almost everyone would play the pai gow bet. Some people would put $10 on their bet, and $5 on the Pai Gow bet. I'm not sure what they were rooting for.
Dealer Complaints: The dealers had a hard time reading the felt for payouts. The text was in black, and faded out slightly.
Overall, I recommend No Commission Pai Gow for any one who likes Pai Gow, and anyone who hasn't played. It's a great bankroll preservation game, and the atmosphere at the table is usually a little lighter then at other tables, because of the slower pace.
Most dishonest thing I've done in a Casino
I don't know what got me to thinking about this, but I was thinking about dishonesty.I have two examples of the most dishonest thing I have ever done in a casino.
First, I was playing Pai Gow Poker, sitting at 3rd base. A new, inexperienced dealer came to the table. He presses the button on the shuffler and picks the cards up. I see a joker on the bottom, and look and see a (7) on the LED that shows I'm getting that hand. As he is trying to figure out who gets the hand, I ask him if it's too late to bet the bonus, and he says No. He figures out that the hand goes to me.
I open the hand and have 4 Aces. - $125 to me.
Next example. I'm playing 3 card poker at Ameristar in St. Louis. The dealer is paying 12-1 for straights. I make $100 and quickly leave.
Ok, so no judging me. But, if you have a good dishonesty story, feel free to share it.
Comments
sometimes you feel you only are getting back some of what left by error. Yesterday I had a dealer suck up my unresolved DC Craps bet wrongly, and I had to point it out. Another bet vanished later but I said nothing as I wasnt sure, I just didnt remember getting that unresolved DC rolled off, and some distractions were current.
forgot to say when I have indulged in dishonesty: I guess when paid wrongly, always fairly minor and always there is a moment when I'm not sure, and the next thing I know things have moved on.
Making a wager on the bonus bet after seeing a flashed card can raise a red flag - unless you were already betting the bonus occasionally. But even so, what can the casino do? The dealer was flashing the card. Not your fault.
Judge you? On the contrary. Gambling is all about figuring out the odds. The more info you have, the more accurate your math will be. Although the dealer didn't intend to show you that joker, it was there, you saw it, and you thought it swayed the odds enough to make a wager.
You got very lucky that you had three more aces, but that was part of the gamble.
I've none. I even gave a dealer back $5 when she payed a play bet in TCP she shoulnd't have because her hand didn't qualify.
I'd like to say at a Pai Gow table I'd ahve done the same thing you did, but the truth is I probably woulnd't have put it all together in time to bet the bonus; and that's assuming I'd ahve even thought about betting the bonus.
Last time I was at the Horseshoe Southern Indiana, there was a dealer at the Pai Gow Poker table who kept setting his straights and flushes as Pai Gows. I'm not sure if I ever beat him when he mis-set his hand, but I sure didn't say anything about it either.
dealer mis-setting his cards? Even in our friendly games we say you have to call your own hand, and if you missed something, tough! so I wouldnt call that dishonest, but better skill working itself out. Correctly seeing your hand [and its potential on the come] in poker takes practice
Craps
Just got back from Harrah's Joliet.I hate it when I win $100 and my wife loses $100. I can't even feel good about winning.
Anyway, quick 10 second story worthy of a blog post.
I was playing craps, and the guy next to me is taking notes whenever a point is hit, or a seven out. It's obviously very funny to me, but I want to see what he is writing. So I look over at his paper, and he quickly turns it over! He doesn't want me to see his advanced craps betting system.
What could he possibly be writing?
For some reason, keeping track of craps rolls cracks me up, yet I always look with interest when I see a bunch of reds in a row in roulette. Maybe that will change now that I've thought about it in these terms.
Comments
hilarious. I wonder what the pit boss thinks about people making notes.
This is funny, and gives me an idea. I'm going to be up in Las Vegas this coming weekend. I'm going to carry a small notebook and a pen, and when playing craps, I'm going to start writing down the numbers. If somebody asks me what I'm doing or why, I will tell them about this advanced craps system that I have, and how it's guaranteed to work. Figure this, there's some percentage chance that whatever bet I make next will win. If it does, I'll whoop and holler, and make a note in my notebook. The question is, how long will it take before other people will be betting my "system". :)
He could also be "charting shooters" - you know, the guy that hit his first point two times in a row is bound to do it next time.
When I've seen people taking notes, I notice that they rarely make a bet and then it's the table min. with no odds. If I was running a table I wouldn't like these guys taking up a spot, but I have only seen a few places where taking notes is banned.
I would imagine note-taking slows things down and is probably limited to minimum bet players. It would be a distraction more than anything else such as someone taking notes in a night club. I'd watch my chips real carefully if anyone stood near me taking notes.
We have a resident dice logger at my place too. He's actually a pretty high roller, buying in for $3000 in all purple and black, and then rarely makes a bet.
The first time I dealt to him he didn't make a bet for the first 30 or so rolls he was there...then he put $600 on the don't pass...and a 3 rolls. I was pretty amazed!
He waited another 10 rolls, put another $300 on the don't pass...the 2 rolls. By now I'm starting to (half-jokingly) question whether the dice really don't have a mind of their own.
Of course after he lost most of it back and then some when he bet $500-1000 each on the don't again and three successive sevens rolled...I was again quietly reassured.
I always want to ask one simple question to people who track dice rolls, or wins in baccarat: if doing so really gave you an advantage, why does the casino still let you do it?
I saw a craps note taker at Mohegan Sun today.
He was just betting minimum pass lines bets with no odds.
Kinda weird.
Perhaps these note takers are actually working on a system but more likely they realize they don't have the bankroll to stay at the table for long, so this is their way of getting an occasional drink and some fun by pretending to themselves and others that they will actually commit some real funds only when they have worked the occasional kinks out of their system.
FinsRule's Pai Gow Poker Theorem
I don't have the math to prove this, but I just know it's true.The more Pai Gow's (A hand with no pair that's not a straight or a flush) there are in a hand, the more likely the dealer will have a Pai Gow also.
You're not technically allowed to share information about your hand. But there's something that most players share, and that's when they have a Pai Gow. And I've found that if there's a hand where you hear a lot of people complaining they have a Pai Gow, the dealer gets a Pai Gow more often.
It makes sense. It spreads out the cards, and makes it more likely that the dealer does not match up his cards.
How do I use this information? If I have a Pai Gow, and I hear a few others do too, I tend to set my 3rd highest card in my 5 card hand, instead of my 2 card hand. No, it usually does not make a difference, but I have pushed a couple of hands instead of losing.
Here's an example: (No suits included)
A, Q, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2
I set my hand
A, 10, 6, 4, 2
Q, 8
If the dealer has A, Q, J, 9, 6, 5, 3, he will set his hand
A, 9, 6, 5, 3
Q, J
If I would have set my hand the house way, I lose that hand.
It's just a theory, but I have faith in it.
Comments
well, I think there is no doubt that some things correspond: in non-community card Poker if you are dealt a flush, it has to be true that it makes the likelihood of someone else also having a flush greater due to the obvious skew in distribution... but you probably don't ever want to factor that. Having trips, or just seeing 4 Kings, say, distributed about in up cards in stud poker, suggests distribution skew might mean others are pairing up or better at some slightly better chance. So the opposite, no one having pairs, might be a factor, yes. But how slight?
BTW "to have a Gai Pow" is also not mentioned, I believe, in the Wizards webpage.
It's an interesting theory, and an interesting alternate strategy.
Of course, my immediate thinking is, why not just play the 3rd and 4th card in the two-card, making your five-card even stronger?
Sounds like some analysis is needed...
By the way, a garbage hand is called a "Pai Gow"? It seemed to me that when dealers get garbage, the players say something like "plop plop". I've never asked because I rarely sit with anyone but Asians, and they often have accents that are so thick, they are hard to understand, so I don't bother...
"Lop" means nothing in Chinese. "Lop-lop" means nothing-nothing.
Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, they're saying "Lop lop."
I've often wondered if it made sense to play unpaired hands your say. Especially very high unpaired hands. If I have AKQJ543, my experience has been that setting AQ543/KJ is better than setting AJ543/KQ. By setting it that way, I'm virtually guaranteed to beat a dealer's unpaired hand and I'm not much worse off on top if the dealer has an unpaired top to play.
Tuesday May 4
Okay, the trip is finally ending. No more trip reports for at least six months.We wake up Tuesday around 9:30, and ask for a late checkout. No late checkouts are being provided says the front desk, because the hotel is sold out. Yes, the front desk person at the Mirage wants me to believe that the entire Mirage is sold out on a Tuesday night in early may. I should have told him that I can book a room online right now for $100 with like $25 in resort credits.
We get over to Hash House a Go Go at Imperial Palace at around 10:30. Let me start by saying that I hate Imperial Palace. It's a dump, and for some reason, I have no idea how to get in or out of it. I saw HHGG on Man vs. Food, so I don't really care where it is, I'm going.
It's in the middle of Imperial, and you go up an escalator, and you do not feel like you're in IP at all.
My wife insists on getting an entire skillet of something. I tell her that she should split it with her sister, because it's going to be enormous. Oh, I hate when people use the word "Ginormous". It means the same thing as enormous. Just use the real word.
I get one blueberry pecan pancake. I wanted to try a maple brown sugar pancake too, but I figured my wife would need help eating her own food.
We get our food, and the portions are unbelievably big. The pancake is great, and everyone loves their meals. If you're in the mood for a huge breakfast, that's actually not that expensive, definitely go to Hash House.
I get back to the room by 11:45. By this point, my brother and my sister in law have said that they asked for late checkout, and got it. So I call back to the front desk armed with this information, and I get to check out at 1:00.
We pack up the Suburban, and our first stop is the Las Vegas Gold & Silver Pawn Shop, as seen on Pawn Stars. It was really cool to see where the show was filmed, and the Old Man was there that day. I didn't want to bother the guy, because he did not seem happy that his pawn shop has been turned into a tourist trap of sorts. My wife of course goes up to him and gets her picture taken with him. It's really funny.
I buy a t-shirt, and my wife buys a present for someone. I suppose the person could be reading this, so I'll just end with that. All in all, a fun time.
We then head to the Pinball Hall of Fame. That was tons of fun. Tons of cool old pinball machines, and other arcade games. I spent like $2.50, and had like 30 minutes of fun. I beat my wife in a bubble hockey game 3-1, and now we've decided to buy one whenever we get a house.
We had an hour to kill before the flight, so we headed to Hard Rock. I had never been to Hard Rock, so it was cool to check it out. Yep, it's a casino alright, just like all the others. There's really no reason to go there if you're staying on the strip. Sportsbook was tiny. I decided to make one last bet before I left, which angered my traveling party. Hey, the flight leaves in two hours, and we're 5 minutes from the airport, relax everyone.
Three card poker, last hand, pair plus. Here goes....
I get a pair! I'm leaving Vegas a winner. Or better stated, I'm leaving Vegas, with my last bet being a win.
We head to the airport, and our flight is 45 minutes delayed. We arrive in Milwaukee, WI at around 1 a.m. I'm off work the next day, so it's fine with me. Everyone else - not happy.
Totals:
Money Spent in Vegas - About $1050 for food, gambling, misc. expenses for my wife and I for 4 nights. Plane flight was $200 total because we had Southwest credit for the returning leg. Hotel was $225. Car rental was about $100. Monorail was $25. So, we spent $1500 on a 4 night vacation. Our honeymoon in September cost more than $1500 for the hotel room alone in San Diego. (Hotel Del Coronado, awesome). I feel like Vegas is a very affordable vacation destination, and if you get a little luck, it turns out to be the cheapest vacation you can possibly have.
What's left for me to do in Vegas? Not much. I think our next trip we will have to see a Cirque show. I also want to go to the top of the Stratosphere, and see (NOT RIDE) the cool rides and the view. We'll do Red Rocks again. Where to stay? I'm thinking if it's just my wife and I, we'll do a couple nights at the Venetian.
Thanks for reading!
Comments
Thanks for the IP report. I'm staying there in September, but I'm staying alone. As long as it's not a Roach Motel, I'm OK with it.Quote:We get over to Hash House a Go Go at Imperial Palace at around 10:30. Let me start by saying that I hate Imperial Palace. It's a dump, and for some reason, I have no idea how to get in or out of it. I saw HHGG on Man vs. Food, so I don't really care where it is, I'm going.
...
The pancake is great, and everyone loves their meals. If you're in the mood for a huge breakfast, that's actually not that expensive, definitely go to Hash House.
It's great to hear you enjoyed the Hash House a Go Go.
FYI: The MvF episode featured HHGG in town, NOT the one at IP.
On the other hand, MvF did a segment at the Nascar Cafe, and that WAS the one at Sahara.
Thanks for reporting!Quote:Thanks for reading!
Quote:Oh, I hate when people use the word "Ginormous". It means the same thing as enormous. Just use the real word.
Yes! Thank you!
Comments
To clarify, EZ Pai Gow's Queen High hand to push is EXACTLY Queen high. King high or Jack high, etc, play normally.
Wow. That does sound intimidating.For the record, I tend to avoid games with side bets, only because of all the flak you get from the other players when you finally get a hand that would have paid.
Now THAT'S funny! And sounds like fun too. You're either pushing or tipping $2. But you're letting the cards decide exactly when it's a tip. Cool.
I dislike games with sidebets for the same reason as Mr. Bear. Worse yet is when the dealer asks if I know what the side bet is. I always answer that I do know and leave it at that, but one of these days I'm bound to say "Yeah, it's the sucker bet," or something even worse.
Is this in fact Dan Lubin's [gaipowdan's] game?