Posted by FinsRule
Aug 30, 2010

Is this stealing? (Not gambling related)

My wife came to St. Louis to visit this weekend (Long story, don't worry about that issue), and we parked downtown in a parking garage. The rates were $18 for every 24 hours. However, if you lost your ticket to the garage it was $24. So we stayed in the garage for enough time that it cost us $36 with the garage ticket. So when it was time to leave, I pressed the "Lost ticket" button, and only paid $24. I, of course, had the ticket with me the whole time.

So the question is... Is this wrong? I mean, technically, I could have thrown the ticket in the Mississippi, thereby "losing" it.

I'm guessing most would say that what I did was not only morally okay, but the intelligent thing to do.

Anyone have the opposite view?


Wizard Aug 30, 2010

I'd be perfectly okay with that. You are only taking advantage of the garage's incentive for you to lose the ticket. Since it doesn't benefit them to actually lose it, I would be okay with pretending, for one second, that you did. Besides, parking garages screw us every chance they get.

Example 1: At the BWI airport I parked for 27 minutes. At 31-60 minutes, you have to pay for a full hour. However, the car in front of me evidently had a lost ticket, and it took about 5 minutes for the attendant to do a bunch of paperwork on it. Then she tried to charge me for a whole hour. I argued that I was only parked for 27 minutes, and I shouldn't be punished for her taking forever to do paperwork. The bitch charged me for 60 minutes anyway. I later wrote a letter to the company that managed the garage demanding a refund for the extra 30 minutes, and they sent me a check.

Example 2: At a downtown Baltimore parking garage I couldn't find an empty space and asked to leave. A different bitch refused to let me out for free, and chaged me the minimum about of 30 minutes, which I think was $8. I should have wrote a letter there as well.

FleaStiff Aug 30, 2010

Clever of you to think of that.

I think it would make up for all those poor souls who only do park for a very short time but who do lose their tickets and have to pay outrageously even though the attendant remembers that they just entered a short time before.

odiousgambit Aug 30, 2010

The garage should have a better method for someone who stays longer than 24 hours, or forget it. Otherwise the default fact is the maximum charge is really $24 and they should admit it.

I'm the type of guy who is too dumb to have figured it out, pays $36, then somebody I know will shake his head in disbelief that I had my head up my ass so far [g]

benbakdoff Aug 30, 2010

I don't know the setup of the garage but if there are cameras you could get a bill in the mail.

I tried that at Logan Airport in Boston and they said I didn't need a ticket because they knew the exact time I entered the garage. They were right on the money.

toastcmu Aug 30, 2010

Wiz -

I am surprised you didn't do option 3 which happens way to often here in DC - people wait for the parking people to leave, and merely ram their car through the flimsy parking gates. Of course at the one garage I used to park at, after too many of those, the parking attendants affixed a 3/4" pipe to the back of the gate. Would've hated to be that guy trying to bust out.


cclub79 Aug 30, 2010

Sounds like they probably raised the rate from 12 to 18 in the past, and never updated their "lost ticket" fee. It doesn't make sense that 2 days in a garage would be more than the maximum time in the garage (which is to what the lost ticket fee should be pegged).

It's funny to see the Wiz all PG-13 and going after horrible employees. How would you have described them if they were men? I have an idea.

cclub79 Aug 30, 2010

And it reminds me of the old PA Turnpike Scam. Let's say it costs a car $30.00 to go the whole trip from exit 330 to exit 1, and it's a round trip you make weekly. If you lose your ticket, you pay the highest fare. So the first time, you hold on to the ticket, and just pay the 30 bucks. Then, on the way home, you get on at exit 4. And take it to exit 327. But when you get off, you use your exit 330 ticket, and you pay the 50 cents for the 3 miles you unofficially went. Then go back to exit 330 when you get on next time, and take it to exit 1. Use your exit 4 ticket. Pay 50 cents instead of 30 bucks. For it to work, you need two close exits you can utilize where you want to enter and exit.

Before you try, now they print a time on your ticket. You might have trouble convincing them you got on 4 miles over 2 days ago.

AZDuffman Aug 31, 2010

Reminds me of Fat Tony talking to Bart:

"Bart, if my family was starving and I took a loaf of bread, is that stealing? Suppose I have a big family and need to steal a whole truckload of bread--is that stealing? Now suppose my family needed cigarettes instead of bread, and instead of giving them to my family, the price I gave them for was as good as giving them away, is that stealing?"

I'd call it more "beating the system" than stealing, for the record.

Ibeatyouraces Sep 02, 2010

I liken it to advantage gambling. I think in the last few years I have saved people alot of money by telling them to park at MGM Detroit or Greektown casino which is free instead of paying $10-$40 in some cases for other event parking. At most its nothing but a 10 minute walk to all venues in downtown Detroit.

JohnnyQ Sep 06, 2010

Well let's face it, YES it is stealing. You parked there, you received a service, and then didn't pay for the service you received. As much as I hate expensive parking garages, if you didn't like the rate, you could have parked somewhere else or further away from your destination.

Wizard Sep 06, 2010

Regarding the above comment, he did pay $24 for the service, which was the requested price to pay for a lost ticket. If anything he is guilty of lying, but that could be rectified by deliberately losing the ticket. I would compare this to going to a carnival that charges $1 for one ride, and $11 for 10 rides. You intend to go on 10 rides, so you buy 10 tickets for $1 each one at a time. No guilt in doing that.

Malaru Nov 24, 2010

Legally this could be considered retail theft or theft of services. It is a fraudulent act that was commited. I would consider this the same as someone coming into the police department and saying they "lost" their medications so they could get a report and get more pain meds without the additional price. Its wrong either way. But then I guess my morality and public service gets in the way of my saving a buck.

Posted by FinsRule
Aug 05, 2010

Go Mariners?

My friend has been telling me for months that I should get an XBox360 so I can play FIFA against him. And I like getting the newest version of Madden. I don't play that many video games, so I've been telling him that if I ever win $200 gambling, that I would buy the XBox and a game. Then the next day I won $250 at the casino. I told him that I wasn't ready yet, and that if I could build my Bodog account to $200, I would buy one then.

At that time, my account was at $0. I then proceeded to hit a freeroll for $1.65. I built that up to $10. I then bet $10 on Spain to win the World Cup. They won, and my account was up to $50. Now, 3 weeks later, I'm at $185. I have a bet on the Mariners to win tonight. If they win, I'm at $200.

Not sure if I actually want an XBox, but if the Mariners win, I'm getting one. Go Mariners?


Nareed Aug 06, 2010

Can't you play against your friend at his place?

Posted by FinsRule
Jul 25, 2010

Oklahoma was OK

What a terrible title.

Anyway, I'm blogging from my hotel in Springfield, MO, after my trip to Oklahoma yesterday. I started out at Downstream Casino, which has the entrance in Missouri, the parking lot in Kansas, and the casino itself in Oklahoma. There really is no mention you're in Oklahoma, because it's an Indian casino, and I guess they don't really consider themselves part of a state?

So I was hungry when I first went in, so I went to the buffet. $9.95 for lunch, and no tax! Those indians know what they're doing. I'd say the buffet was worth about $10, so I'm up 5 cents. Oh shoot, I tipped $3, I'm down $2.95. I head over to the Pai Gow table that is a $5 minimum! I go to sit down, and they ask if I have a players club card. I say no, and they say that if I don't, they'll charge me $.50 a hand to play.

Well, the line was long for a players card, so I decided to head a little deeper into Oklahoma, to Miami, Oklahoma. I went to the Stables Casino, because it had an OTB in there.

The casino was a hole in the wall type place, which I'm not used to. All the casinos I go to are in states with a precious few gaming licenses, so they make the most out of it, and cram 2000 slot machines or more, in. This place claimed to have 500. They also had 3 blackjack tables. Everyone there was quite friendly. Actually, everyone at Downstream was too. I can't comment on the attractiveness of the waitresses/dealers at either place, because my wife reads this blog, and because I don't look at other women... But the players around me and the dealers at Downstream commented often on their attractiveness.

I lost $10 betting on horses for an hour or so, and so I headed back up to Downstream. I needed to stop for gas, but I didn't, because the gas stations there are named "Kum & Go". At least, I think they were gas stations...

Back at Downstream playing $5 Pai Gow Poker. I'm losing. So I head over to 3 card, and lose. Then I head over to the craps table. But alas, there are no dice! It's Card Craps. It's really funny to watch. A player calls out a number combination and the boxman? turns over the corresponding cards. I actually think I won $10. I got to "shoot" and it was kinda fun. But I still had like $30 left of my original $100, so I went back to Pai Gow for a grand finale.

I noticed at Pai Gow, that the dealers were putting .50 aside for each player playing. At Oklahoma casinos, the state receives .50 for each hand that is dealt, whether it be in blackjack, pai gow, etc. Some places make the players pay, others pay it for them. So that means, that Downstream pays .50 for every $5 pai gow hand! With a house edge of around 2.5%, they are losing literally 37 cents every hand on average! I mention this to the dealer, and she said that she's heard that the Pai Gow table won't be around long. YOU THINK?

I cannot believe they didn't make the table $10 on a Saturday night. Anyway, I lost my full $100 I budgeted, so I headed back on my way.

In Springfield I saw an ice cream looking stand that had "Pineapple Whip" on it. I decided to see what it was, so I bought one. I told her I would tell everyone if I liked it, and I would not mention it to anyone if I didn't. It was good. $2 for a large cup. Fruity, refreshing. So, I say, if you're in Springfield, MO, pick up a Pineapple Whip!

Alright, time to leave La Quinta. I didn't get a good night's sleep, because a guy in the room next to me was puking this morning. And a car alarm went off for about 5 minutes.

I need to post about horse racing soon, probably this week.


Tiltpoul Jul 25, 2010

I used to live in Kansas City, so one time I ventured down to Downstream. I found it to be very pleasant, and I played the Pai Gow game for a long time. I would doubt they'll get rid of that game though, as the midwest market loves it.

When I was there, they had a fantastic BJ promotion going on, and while I didn't take advantage of it, the rules are very favorable. They have to be, as the competition provides favorable rules to compensate for the stupid ante.

odiousgambit Jul 26, 2010


...It's Card Craps. It's really funny to watch. A player calls out a number combination...[q/]

A player? that mystifies me, of course I know nothing about card craps

FinsRule Jul 26, 2010

Odious - I know I didn't do a good job of explaining it. There are 12 cards laid out in two rows - 1-6 and 1-6. The 12 cards have 2 aces, 2 twos, 2 threes, etc.

If a player calls out 32, then card 3 from row 1 and card 2 from row 2 are turned over, which makes the "roll"


Posted by FinsRule
Jul 23, 2010

Taking a gamblin' trip

I'm leaving tomorrow for the land of casinos!

Nevada? Hardly. I'm driving to Oklahoma! My brother and I are in a "race" to see who can be in all 50 states first. I'm at 26, he's at 25. It's a "race" because we're only picking up like 1-2 new states a year, so this may take a while.

So tomorrow, I'm driving the 4 hours from St. Louis to Oklahoma. And since Oklahoma has so many casinos, I'll take a look. They are all on Indian reservations, so pretty much anything goes. Anything goes, meaning, they can do anything to me they want. So, I'll just play some Pai Gow, make a couple of Horse Racing bets, and maybe see how soft the poker room is, and head back on my way to STL. I'll be staying one night in Springfield, Missouri.

An interesting fact about Oklahoma is that the gambling age is 18. I'm guessing the poker room will be filled with high school / college internet "pros" who will be wearing sunglasses at the $3-$6 limit table. Those types make me laugh.

I'm not a "gaming" expert, but I know that Oklahoma has Class II and Class III machines. I forget which one is which, but I know one is either played out like a horse race from 10 years ago, or played out like bingo. Either way, I will avoid those machines, and probably all machines there, VP included.

There is no craps either, not that I enjoy craps that much anyway.

So, off I go. I'll have a full trip report either tomorrow night, or Sunday.

Posted by FinsRule
Jun 15, 2010

Windows Solitaire (Only Slightly Gambling Related)

My brother and I play Pai Gow against each other while we're at work. (During our lunch hour of course) We don't work in the same building, so the way we play is that we open up Windows Solitaire, and make Pai Gow hands out of the 7 cards on the screen. There is no joker, so it's not exactly Pai Gow, but it's close enough.

Anyway, we were playing the other day, and we ended up with the exact same hand. Same suits, same location of cards, same cards in the deck, same cards behind the up cards.

Obviously there is no possible way that it is a coincidence. So my only logical conclusion is that we hit the "Deal" button at the exact same second, and the Windows Solitaire RNG is based off of when you press "Deal". I'm not sure if any computer programming people read this, but if you do, I'd love your opinion.

And the next logical question, which I'm sure the answer is "No", but, I wonder if slot machines have the same RNG system. If they do, it seems like they would be easy to beat.


miplet Jun 16, 2010

Not quite what you were looking for, but it is a good read.

And from here


...the game was being generated by a very non-random method. It probably was easier to program a large number of set configurations than an infinite number of random possibilities

PS: google is your friend, I googled rng windows solitaire to get those links.

miplet Jun 16, 2010
DJTeddyBear Jun 16, 2010

I used to program some simple simulations on my Mac using a freeware version of Basic - until I discovered that the RNG was seeded at the time Basic was launched. I.E. Everytime I restarted Basic, I got the same results.

Now I used random numbers from and get better results.