Coronavirus math
Quote: AZDuffmanZero proof of this. Impossible to prove.
What I do not get is why you think a small piece of cloth or paper is going to be the savior here.
The numbers seem to prove what I said all along. The mask mandates are to give the appearance that "something is being done" because too many people cannot handle that it is what it is and we have to just work our way to herd immunity.
That is a hard fact of life, but it is a fact you need to get used to.
The next thing I expect is the vaccine will be "partially useful at best" when we see cases not disappear by spring.
The vaccine prognosis might be correct.
Meanwhile by your way of thinking Hydroxychloriquine is an utter failure as cases continue to mount
Quote: darkozThe vaccine prognosis might be correct.
Meanwhile by your way of thinking Hydroxychloriquine is an utter failure as cases continue to mount
Not at all. Hydroxychloriquine is used to treat cases. And it was locked out as the pharma-industrial complex joined the press in saying it did not work. Perhaps if we now start using it we will see less deaths and less severe symptoms.
Hopefully this group sleeps well even knowing how many people died and suffered because of their refusal to accept common sense medicine and instead bowing at the altar of slapped together "studies" to keep a cheap, old drug from being a good cure.
Quote: AZDuffmanNot at all. Hydroxychloriquine is used to treat cases. And it was locked out as the pharma-industrial complex joined the press in saying it did not work. Perhaps if we now start using it we will see less deaths and less severe symptoms.
Hopefully this group sleeps well even knowing how many people died and suffered because of their refusal to accept common sense medicine and instead bowing at the altar of slapped together "studies" to keep a cheap, old drug from being a good cure.
Been six weeks. Not even a blip on the news.
Hydroxychloriquine just isn't doing anything.
Show me in five months dramatic evidence it works. Then we can talk.
Quote: darkozBeen six weeks. Not even a blip on the news.
Hydroxychloriquine just isn't doing anything.
Show me in five months dramatic evidence it works. Then we can talk.
Why does it have to be "dramatic?" Evidence is it is helping people. Nobody is forcing you to take it. We cannot say that for masks, which clearly are not working.
Quote: AZDuffmanWe cannot say that for masks, which clearly are not working.
that is something you could not possibly know
because you could not possibly know that it wouldn't have been much worse if nobody had worn a mask
and you could not possibly know that it wouldn't have been much better if everybody had worn a mask - thousands, maybe millions, haven't in critical situations
99.99% of experts have stated that mask wearing is both critical and beneficial
but AZDuffman doesn't agree
so who is a person going to go with?
99.99% of experts? or AZ Duffman?
what a tough decision for a person to make...........................................(-:\
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Quote: lilredroosterthat is something you could not possibly know
because you could not possibly know that it wouldn't have been much worse if nobody had worn a mask
and you could not possibly know that it wouldn't have been much better if everybody had worn a mask - thousands, maybe millions, haven't in critical situations
99.99% of experts have stated that mask wearing is both critical and beneficial
but AZDuffman doesn't agree
so who is a person going to go with?
99.99% of experts? or AZ Duffman?
what a tough decision for a person to make...........................................(-:\
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Easy for me of course.
But the point is the "LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS/SCIENTISTS" crowd here was WRONG on hydroxychloroquine but said put your faith in masks. Then a few months later we see the experts were wrong on hydroxychloroquine. Yet somehow we are supposed to think the masks are going to save us? If not the masks locking down to a depression?
In the end it is what it is. Just have to live with it. Quit blaming those of us who do not swallow the mask line blindly.
Seems there plenty of people not doing the right thing.
Quote: rxwineWho said the ones wearing masks and social distancing are the ones catching Covid?
Seems there plenty of people not doing the right thing.
We had that discussion. 85% of people caught it were mask wearers.
Quote: AZDuffmanWe had that discussion. 85% of people caught it were mask wearers.
Saying you wore a mask and monitoring people using them correctly are far different things.
Quote: rxwineSaying you wore a mask and monitoring people using them correctly are far different things.
Monitoring people using them correctly? That sounds scary. Very 1984.
Quote: AZDuffmanWe had that discussion. 85% of people caught it were mask wearers.
whatever discussion you're referring to - it wasn't scientific
from the article:
"Health authorities have never said masks alone will slow the spread of the coronavirus, but have an impact when combined with other prevention methods, such as hand washing and social distancing ( here , here ). Evidence that masks significantly help to reduce the risk of infection is visible here , and here .
Reuters has debunked other misleading claims about face coverings here , here and here . (click on link to go "here, here, and here")
Missing context. Both groups of people with and without the novel coronavirus, demonstrated high levels of mask use (85% and 88.7% respectively). The study, which aimed to analyze community and close contact exposure and not mask use, found that more infected people had been to locations where masks cannot be worn effectively, like restaurants and bars.
This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our work to fact-check social media posts here .
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-cdc-study-exposure/fact-check-misrepresented-cdc-study-about-community-exposure-to-the-new-coronavirus-idUSKBN2741WF
Quote: AZDuffmanMonitoring people using them correctly? That sounds scary. Very 1984.
Like research scientist do, not police. You know, like when Jane Goodall records chimp behavior.
reports indicate somewhere around 25% in the U.S. will refuse the vaccine or at least are not sure they will take it
Good Luck America - we're really going to need it - not enough advantage players taking on Covid
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Quote: rxwinemonitoring people
I don't mind a bit giving up italic 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦 of my personal privacy so the authorities can monitor the misbehaving morons in this country
there are far too many misbehaving morons in America
just have to be sure they're not monitoring for political purposes - i.e. - what books we're checking out at the library
even though the authorities might be capable of knowing that I'm not a misbehaving moron
they can't know that I might not become one in the future
who knows? maybe I'll get bumped in the head in a car accident
then maybe I'll become vulnerable to the propaganda of the knuckle draggers - I could become a moronic bobblehead dittoing a lot of babbling nonsense and ready to go into action when the head knuckle draggers say the time is right
so, I too, could potentially become a misbehaving moron in the future
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Quote: lilredroosterin addition to millions refusing to wear masks appropriately -
reports indicate somewhere around 25% in the U.S. will refuse the vaccine or at least are not sure they will take it
Good Luck America - we're really going to need it - not enough advantage players taking on Covid
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Count me in the crowd of people who will refuse to take the vaccine. I don't care if it offered for free or even if I am paid to take it. I refuse to be a guinea pig. I view it in a very similar fashion I view technological innovations. Let's others overpay and let others find the bugs or problems they didn't find in initial testing. 6-12 months down the road when they have those unforseen problems identified and remedied i will revisit it.
Quote: Gabes22Count me in the crowd of people who will refuse to take the vaccine. I don't care if it offered for free or even if I am paid to take it. I refuse to be a guinea pig. I view it in a very similar fashion I view technological innovations. Let's others overpay and let others find the bugs or problems they didn't find in initial testing. 6-12 months down the road when they have those unforseen problems identified and remedied i will revisit it.
I can understand that...kindof. Though all the chemicals and compounds we consume, breathe or otherwise expose to have longer term tests for safety, no one can really test them in all the combinations we can get exposed to them. So, in a way, we're always a guinea pig in modern societies.
Quote: billryanWho are these experts? Just because somebody has a high IQ, over-achieved at some left-leaning university, has a bunch of letters after their name, and has the respect of their peers, are we supposed to think they know more about the subject they've spent their life studying than the rest of us?
Recognizing your sarcastic tone... of course they know more.... but unless I know the bias and motive.... there are some really smart people with lots of letters that I certainly don’t trust.
Anyway... I want the vaccine!
Quote: lilredroosterin addition to millions refusing to wear masks appropriately -
reports indicate somewhere around 25% in the U.S. will refuse the vaccine or at least are not sure they will take it
Good Luck America - we're really going to need it - not enough advantage players taking on Covid
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You want to take something that rushed thru for a virus with a 99.5% survival rate have at it.
Quote: billryanWho are these experts? Just because somebody has a high IQ, over-achieved at some left-leaning university, has a bunch of letters after their name, and has the respect of their peers, are we supposed to think they know more about the subject they've spent their life studying than the rest of us?
it's much better to go to a bar in a remote rural area, down a few, and get some good advice from the locals
and of course, follow the leaders at the most popular social media sites
they know what's going down - you don't need to have any schooling to figure this stuff out
it's plain as day
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Quote: SOOPOORecognizing your sarcastic tone... of course they know more.... but unless I know the bias and motive.... there are some really smart people with lots of letters that I certainly don’t trust.
Anyway... I want the vaccine!
Betting against experts isn't necessarily a losing bet, but it is -EV overall. It's certainly not the path of a winner.
Of course, that's just my opinion. : )
Quote: DRichI really hope they tie some stimulus money to getting the vaccine.
They can put a dollar bill over your arm and jab the needle through it. Happy?
Quote: DRichI really hope they tie some stimulus money to getting the vaccine. I have talked to some friends that say that is the only way they will take it.
The amount of money I would require to persuade me to take it during this initial rollout would be an amount so significant that the Feds will never offer it.
Quote: rxwineThey can put a dollar bill over your arm and jab the needle through it. Happy?
I will get it anyway but I know people that will not get it unless it is tied to money. If they do another $600 or $1200 stimulus I think that would be a great incentive for a lot of people,
Quote: DRichI will get it anyway but I know people that will not get it unless it is tied to money. If they do another $600 or $1200 stimulus I think that would be a great incentive for a lot of people,
I'm all for tieing a stimulus check to getting vaccinated. No vaccination, no stimulus. It seems like a no-brainer.
Quote: DRichI will get it anyway but I know people that will not get it unless it is tied to money.
Once we get the vaccine, what other people choose to do won't affect our health. So, in a way, if you are vaccinated it doesn't matter if other people never get it.
OTOH, there is a subset of people who won't be able to take it. Probably pregnant mothers for one. So all of these people will be endangered by the people walking around without vaccinations.
Quote: rxwineOnce we get the vaccine, what other people choose to do won't affect our health. So, in a way, if you are vaccinated it doesn't matter if other people never get it.
Not necessarily. 95% efficacy isn’t really close enough to 100 that it makes that inconsequential.
Quote: mcallister3200Not necessarily. 95% efficacy isn’t really close enough to 100 that it makes that inconsequential.
Unless you can suggest a better alternative it sure is.
Quote: rxwineUnless you can suggest a better alternative it sure is.
Huh? There not being a better alternative makes it inconsequential what others do?
My point is you have a MUCH higher chance of getting it taking a 95% vaccine if only 70% of population does then if 98% did. If the vaccine was 99.999% effective then others choice would be inconsequential. That being said it shouldn’t be required until there’s a longer track record regarding any additional risks is known.
Quote: mcallister3200Huh? There not being a better alternative makes it inconsequential what others do?
My point is you have a MUCH higher chance of getting it taking a 95% vaccine if only 70% of population does then if 98% did. If the vaccine was 99.999% effective then others choice would be inconsequential. That being said it shouldn’t be required until there’s a longer track record regarding any additional risks is known.
Much of the population isn't taking the other vaccines available for other diseases. Virtually none of them is higher than 95%. I'm not going to wait until 98% of the people take the flu vaccines either because I don't believe it will happen.
Quote: rxwineMuch of the population isn't taking the other vaccines available for other diseases. Virtually none of them is higher than 95%. I'm not going to wait until 98% of the people take the flu vaccines either because I don't believe it will happen.
Maybe we are talking past each other. I am not saying that how many others take it should impact your decision to take it or that there should be a more effective vaccine before you do. I’m simply pointing out that others decisions do have an effect on the probability of you contracting the virus post vaccination.
I was under the impression that the lockdowns were actually creating wealth for some people and companies... like Amazon.Quote: AZDuffmanIf you have a real job in the private sector you create wealth when you work. Lets say you deliver pizza.
1. You create wealth for yourself in the wage and tip you made.
2. You create wealth for the owner in his profit on the pie.
As to the 90% profit well that is because most people do not use their money to create more wealth. Some of us do.
But if you demand we lock down because you are afraid of the bug then no wealth can be created.
Quote: AxelWolfI was under the impression that the lockdowns were actually creating wealth for some people and companies... like Amazon.
A few are doing well. Heck, I am doing well. That does not mean the majority are having a hard time.
Quote: AZDuffmanA few are doing well. Heck, I am doing well. That does not mean the majority are having a hard time.
That's why it's called transfer of wealth and not creation of wealth!
Quote: darkozThat's why it's called transfer of wealth and not creation of wealth!
So you are saying wealth is never created? That there is a finite supply?
Quote: AZDuffmanSo you are saying wealth is never created? That there is a finite supply?
What is your definition of wealth.
Most wealth is based on the control of finite items.
Gold, silver, diamonds, oil
All finite. All not something you can create.
People can create innovations that transfer wealth from one person to another.
Quote: darkozWhat is your definition of wealth.
Most wealth is based on the control of finite items.
Gold, silver, diamonds, oil
All finite. All not something you can create.
People can create innovations that transfer wealth from one person to another.
Wealth would be money or anything of value that can be exchanged for money or other value.
If wealth could not be created then society would be poorer and poorer with each birth. Seeing as how much more we have now than even 50 years ago that is not the case.
Quote: AZDuffmanWealth would be money or anything of value that can be exchanged for money or other value.
If wealth could not be created then society would be poorer and poorer with each birth. Seeing as how much more we have now than even 50 years ago that is not the case.
If your idea of wealth is simply money
And you believe money can simply be created
I suggest you research what happened to pre-Nazi Germany when they took that approach
Quote: darkozIf your idea of wealth is simply money
And you believe money can simply be created
I suggest you research what happened to pre-Nazi Germany when they took that approach
No need to research what I learned in high school.
You are getting this thread way off topic.
My point is we cannot hide out at home or there will be no wealth to survive off of. You seem to subscribe to we can print money and stay home, not me.
they marginalized Covid
and now China is booming
some will undoubtedly say you can't believe anything China reports about Covid or their economy
there's some truth to that
but Beijing is a huge international city of over 21 million
if these reports were false I think other international sources would have exposed them as being false
the 2nd link describes a documentary showing China's initial total lockdown which many called "draconian"
at the time of this news story China reported 4,700 deaths from Covid while the U.S. reported 172,000 despite the fact that the population of China is somewhere about 4 times as large as that of the U.S.
please don't misunderstand my post - it doesn't mean that I favor China's harsh dictatorship - it was posted only to make a point about Covid
https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/why-chinas-economy-keeps-booming-even-after-covid-19/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/movies/ai-weiwei-coronation-coronavirus.html
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. Not sure I understand you... Are you saying the multimillion dollar lottery winner doesn’t become wealthy?Quote: billryanEvidently, some people simply don't understand that money doesn't equal wealth. They seem to think if you somehow get enough money, you are wealthy. In my experience people who think like that rarely get much of either.
Quote: billryanEvidently, some people simply don't understand that money doesn't equal wealth. They seem to think if you somehow get enough money, you are wealthy. In my experience people who think like that rarely get much of either. [/q
You are not understanding the terms. "Wealth" <> "wealthy." Creating wealth means creating value.All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Quote: lilredroosterChina locked down completely after the initial Covid outbreak there -
they marginalized Covid
and now China is booming
some will undoubtedly say you can't believe anything China reports about Covid or their economy
there's some truth to that
but Beijing is a huge international city of over 21 million
if these reports were false I think other international sources would have exposed them as being false
the 2nd link describes a documentary showing China's initial total lockdown which many called "draconian"
at the time of this news story China reported 4,700 deaths from Covid while the U.S. reported 172,000 despite the fact that the population of China is somewhere about 4 times as large as that of the U.S.
please don't misunderstand my post - it doesn't mean that I favor China's harsh dictatorship - it was posted only to make a point about Covid
https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/why-chinas-economy-keeps-booming-even-after-covid-19/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/movies/ai-weiwei-coronation-coronavirus.html
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China is as believable as the USSR or Nazi Germany.
