Leaving bets ON during come-out
Quote: tuttigymQuote: ChumpChangeWe can give you the HA on individual bets, but if you want to throw them in a mixer, that's a no-no.
My Iron Cross would be 3 units on the 5, 6, 8 and 2 units on the Field.
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Well, SHAZAAM!!! Here comes the truth. It seems that all the "math" gymnastics and gyrations and equations put forth on this forum regarding HA/HE in craps are basically bogus because most everyone, who plays the game, knows that the PL or any other individual bet are usually played in multiples during any given hand.
Thanks CC, you have actually performed a great service.
tuttigym
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Untrue. If you want the HA/HE of iron cross simply list out what you won or lose for each of the possible dice outcomes then multiply each by the probability it occurs and add up those numbers.
$400 on field, $500 on 5, $600 on both 6 and 8, $1000 on Any7Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2Yes. Player has 30/6 = 500% advantage playing iron cross
However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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Please tell me how much must be bet in each position of the iron cross plus big red for this to be perpetual money making machine?
I'll try it tonight.
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Unfortunately, Big Red is no longer available at many casinos.
This bet is called the Iron Crucifix because the casino gets crucified nonstop
Quote:We can get at the 1.14% house edge by taking a weighted average of all bets made, as follows:
($5*2.78% + $5*1.11% + $12*0.46%)/22 = $0.25/$22 = 1.14%.
that's 1.14% Mr T-Gym
EDIT: this is per roll, see downthread
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/326/
($10*5.56% + $15*1.11% + $36*0.46%)/61 = $0.89/$61 = 1.45%.
($10*2.27% + $15*1.11% + $36*0.46%)/61 = $0.61/$61 = 1.00%
If I'm on a $15 table, I'm betting $20 on the field, and $30 on the PB 5, and $30 on the PB's 6 & 8.
($20*5.56% + $30*1.11% + $60*0.46%)/61 = $1.72/$110 = 1.56%. on a 2X 2 & 12 Field Bet table
($20*2.27% + $30*1.11% + $60*0.46%)/61 = $1.06/$110 = 0.97% on a 3X 2 & 12 Field Bet table
And on Bubble Craps with $2 Field Bets and $3 PB's, it'd be the same HA as the $15 table 2X 2 & 12 Field Bet table above, 1.56% HA.
I would still keep my PBs OFF and no Field bet during come-out rolls. I don't like replacing PB's.
OK, so for the iron cross, included are place bets which are not necessarily one roll bets. So the HE of 1.14% is true if you were to remove the place bets after one roll all the time, or have no difficulty as viewing it as a one roll bet regardlessQuote: odiousgambit
Quote: Ace2
$400 on field, $500 on 5, $600 on both 6 and 8, $1000 on Any7
Unfortunately, Big Red is no longer available at many casinos.
This bet is called the Iron Crucifix because the casino gets crucified nonstop
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Very nice. Field toss net loss = $600; PB toss net loss = $700; 7 out net win= $1900. Not sure many could hold out very long with that RTP.
tuttigym
go ahead and bet Big Red too. 36 ways to win and 0 ways to lose. Unfortunately, the house shortpays you.
for putting $5 on Any 7, all else the same,
($5*2.78% + $5*1.11% + $12*0.46%+$5*16.67%)/27 = 4.01% HE per roll
thoughts:
I could be wrong for some reason, maybe 'Any 7' can't be added that simply making the math wrong
one roll bets are a killer. Believe it.
I only play pass line, come, take odds and when I win bet more..... Well when I am disciplined.
I don't make place bets or buy numbers or do the hard ways. (well I do) Plus that stupid anycraps bet to protect my passline bet.
see
It just seems to me to complicate the game when you take them on and off but that is how the table is played
Don't give a crap about the other crap players. Play smart, manage your money and WIN
Comradery at the table does seem to help winning but not sure .... or when a kid shows up with his family for his 21st birthday.
I am superstitious about gamming .... if the situation sucks, leave the table and try again later.
Big 6/8 is actually the biggest sucker bet IMO. It is by no means the highest HE bet in the casino at 9.1%, which is in line with hardway bets, but why on earth would someone accept even money when they can make the same bet by placing the 6/8 and get paid 7:6 (1.5% HE).Quote: crapsgeniusBIG RED is the biggest sucker bet in the casino and now everyone loves triple zero 000 roulette.... Get Real
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It’s such a glaring sucker bet that I believe it’s actually banned in some jurisdictions
Quote: odiousgambitthe Iron Cross HE was not hard to find but maybe you have to look for it at the only place to find it
Quote:We can get at the 1.14% house edge by taking a weighted average of all bets made, as follows:
($5*2.78% + $5*1.11% + $12*0.46%)/22 = $0.25/$22 = 1.14%.
that's 1.14% Mr T-Gym
EDIT: this is per roll, see downthread
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/326/
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How did you find such advanced maths!
At least no one has suspended or banned on this thread, not even the thread starter. There have been some civil disagreements but no recurring flame warsQuote: MDawg
Those payouts are better, but they are still sucker bets to be avoided. I’m surprised the hardways aren’t listed as 19:2 and 15:2…sounds like a higher payoff and would make it less likely for people to bet an odds amount. I’m guessing Any7 is 4 & 1/2 to 1 but it’s blockedQuote: TorghattenSome people in this thread would love plaing craps in London:
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Out of curiosity, are 3/4/5 odds standard over there ? I’ve played at the Hippodrome but I don’t recall
So your table has better odds for the suckers making center-table bets. Our table is better for sharps playing PL/DP with 3/4/5 odds. Some off-strip casinos pay even higher odds, making it effectively a zero-edge gameQuote: TorghattenNope 2x odds only. No buy bets either, but place 4/10 pays 19:10. (They use 50p chips for payouts)
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Also, all buy bets here are moving toward commission on win only…the 4/10 has been that way for a while. If you buy it for $35 the vig is under 1%. Placing it at 19:10 is still a 3.3% vig
Quote: Ace2So your table has better odds for the suckers making center-table bets. Our table is better for sharps playing PL/DP with 3/4/5 odds. Some off-strip casino pay even higher odds, making it effectively a zero-edge gameQuote: TorghattenNope 2x odds only. No buy bets either, but place 4/10 pays 19:10. (They use 50p chips for payouts)
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Thats why i said "some players"
Btw its only a single craps table left in London.
Right. When I was there the craps tables downstairs were only open at night. But they had some pretty heavy action and high rollers at the timeQuote: TorghattenQuote: Ace2So your table has better odds for the suckers making center-table bets. Our table is better for sharps playing PL/DP with 3/4/5 odds. Some off-strip casino pay even higher odds, making it effectively a zero-edge gameQuote: TorghattenNope 2x odds only. No buy bets either, but place 4/10 pays 19:10. (They use 50p chips for payouts)
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Thats why i said "some players"
Btw its only a single craps table left in London.
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Victoria removed their table in january 2020.
Quote: Ace2$400 on field, $500 on 5, $600 on both 6 and 8, $1000 on Any7Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: Ace2Yes. Player has 30/6 = 500% advantage playing iron cross
However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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Please tell me how much must be bet in each position of the iron cross plus big red for this to be perpetual money making machine?
I'll try it tonight.
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Unfortunately, Big Red is no longer available at many casinos.
This bet is called the Iron Crucifix because the casino gets crucified nonstop
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BIG RED IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT MANY CASINOS?
I've never seen a craps table without Big Red...
Is it not available at crapless craps? I don't know. But I dont know of any casino that has only crapless craps.
Quote: Ace2$400 on field, $500 on 5, $600 on both 6 and 8, $1000 on Any7
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Let's see:
Roll a field number, not 2, 12. Win $400
Lose $1000 on Big Red
Net loss $600
Roll a 2 win $800, net loss $200 (Big Red loses $1000)
Roll a 12 win $1200 (if it pays triple), net win $200
Roll a 6 or 8, win $700, lose $1400 on field and 7
Roll a 5, win $700, lose $1400 on field and 7
Roll a 7, win $5000, lose $2100. Net win $2900.
Do I have that right?
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymYep, except I thought "Big Red" pays 4 to 1. That last line of the $5000, 4k is the win and 1k is your bet returned.
tuttigym
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You're correct, my error.
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:
Quote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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Ummm...I'm pretty sure that strategy was meant to be a joke.Quote: AlanMendelson
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:link to original postQuote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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Quote: UP84Ummm...I'm pretty sure that strategy was meant to be a joke.Quote: AlanMendelson
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:link to original postQuote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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More like satire, but Ace really, really believes computer simulations using millions/billions of reps of the same wager is reflective of the game and proves his mathematical assertions. I wonder if he has any fun while playing or is he so serious that any distraction might send him over the edge. I mean, Chandler,AZ, where the only green might be in his pocket.
tuttigym
I’m not familiar with the jargon of your high-edge bets, so I thought Big Red meant Big 6/8 in sucker-slang, Big 6/8 has been removed from most tables. My apologiesQuote: AlanMendelson[
BIG RED IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT MANY CASINOS?
I've never seen a craps table without Big Red...
Is it not available at crapless craps? I don't know. But I dont know of any casino that has only crapless craps.
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It’s rare for me to even glance at the center part of the table, but I just had a look at a few images and I see a bet labeled “Seven” or “Any Seven”, but I still haven’t seen a bet labeled Big Red.
Quote: Ace2I’m not familiar with the jargon of your high-edge bets, so I thought Big Red meant Big 6/8 in sucker-slang, Big 6/8 has been removed from most tables. My apologiesQuote: AlanMendelson[
BIG RED IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT MANY CASINOS?
I've never seen a craps table without Big Red...
Is it not available at crapless craps? I don't know. But I dont know of any casino that has only crapless craps.
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It’s rare for me to even glance at the center part of the table, but I just had a look at a few images and I see a bet labeled “Seven” or “Any Seven”, but I still haven’t seen a bet labeled Big Red.
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Have you ever seen a bet "labeled" YO?
tuttigym
Agreed, it’s not the high limit area at Bellagio, but I do see people making bets for several thousand dollars occasionally. Pretty low-end/elderly crowd for the most part but it’s a nice facility. I’ve only been there a few times since real craps just recently became legal in AZ. It satisfies my dice urges between Vegas tripsQuote: tuttigymI mean, Chandler,AZ, where the only green might be in his pocket.
tuttigym
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Now that gambling and marijuana are fully legal, hookers should be next. If many European nations can have them then why can't we
Quote: UP84Ummm...I'm pretty sure that strategy was meant to be a joke.Quote: AlanMendelson
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:link to original postQuote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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You joke a lot, like when you said you always have 28 rolls per hand.
It's hard to tell if you're serious about anything.
Maybe you are serious until you get caught.
Quote: Ace2I’m not familiar with the jargon of your high-edge bets, so I thought Big Red meant Big 6/8 in sucker-slang, Big 6/8 has been removed from most tables. My apologiesQuote: AlanMendelson[
BIG RED IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT MANY CASINOS?
I've never seen a craps table without Big Red...
Is it not available at crapless craps? I don't know. But I dont know of any casino that has only crapless craps.
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It’s rare for me to even glance at the center part of the table, but I just had a look at a few images and I see a bet labeled “Seven” or “Any Seven”, but I still haven’t seen a bet labeled Big Red.
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Have you actually played craps in a casino?
Quote: Ace2Agreed, it’s not the high limit area at Bellagio, but I do see people making bets for several thousand dollars occasionally. Pretty low-end/elderly crowd for the most part but it’s a nice facility. I’ve only been there a few times since real craps just recently became legal in AZ. it satisfies my dice urges between Vegas tripsQuote: tuttigymI mean, Chandler,AZ, where the only green might be in his pocket.
tuttigym
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Now that gambling and marijuana are fully legal, hookers should be next. If many European nations can have them then why can't we
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Hey Ace, you need to start craps classes for those seasoned citizens and dazzle them with the "math." Should go over really big, you know, sort of hypnotic spells with deer in the headlight looks. You can give them snappy satirical chatter and twinkle toed footwork too.
tuttigym
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84Ummm...I'm pretty sure that strategy was meant to be a joke.Quote: AlanMendelson
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:link to original postQuote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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You joke a lot, like when you said you always have 28 rolls per hand.
It's hard to tell if you're serious about anything.
Maybe you are serious until you get caught.
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For someone so concerned about responses to his posts, you may be interested to know that you responded to the wrong person.
No need for dazzling or hypnosis. The deer-eyed seasoned citizens will believe anything...even a 28 roll average and Iron Crucifix strategy.Quote: tuttigym
Hey Ace, you need to start craps classes for those seasoned citizens and dazzle them with the "math." Should go over really big, you know, sort of hypnotic spells with deer in the headlight looks. You can give them snappy satirical chatter and twinkle toed footwork too.
tuttigym
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They should be careful because there are lots of bad people out there that make a living off scamming them blind. Seriously
Quote: Ace2No need for dazzling or hypnosis. The deer-eyed seasoned citizens will believe anything...even a 28 roll average and Iron Crucifix strategy.Quote: tuttigym
Hey Ace, you need to start craps classes for those seasoned citizens and dazzle them with the "math." Should go over really big, you know, sort of hypnotic spells with deer in the headlight looks. You can give them snappy satirical chatter and twinkle toed footwork too.
tuttigym
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They should be careful because there are lots of bad people out there that make a living off scamming them blind. Seriously
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As a poster child for sarcasm and satire, you need to be aware of your total audience. I know that you are NOT one of the "bad" guys. The "deer-eyed seasoned citizens" do need some guidance, and I am sure you can offer assurances.
tuttigym
Quote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84Ummm...I'm pretty sure that strategy was meant to be a joke.Quote: AlanMendelson
I wonder if Ace still stands by this comment:link to original postQuote: Ace2However, player has an infinite advantage if he adds the AnySeven bet to the iron cross, because it’s impossible for him to lose. Iron cross + Any7 is a perpetual money making machine
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You joke a lot, like when you said you always have 28 rolls per hand.
It's hard to tell if you're serious about anything.
Maybe you are serious until you get caught.
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For someone so concerned about responses to his posts, you may be interested to know that you responded to the wrong person.
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In that case I guess Ace wasn't joking and it's even worse for Ace.
Quote: Ace2Agreed, it’s not the high limit area at Bellagio, but I do see people making bets for several thousand dollars occasionally. Pretty low-end/elderly crowd for the most part but it’s a nice facility. I’ve only been there a few times since real craps just recently became legal in AZ. It satisfies my dice urges between Vegas tripsQuote: tuttigymI mean, Chandler,AZ, where the only green might be in his pocket.
tuttigym
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Now that gambling and marijuana are fully legal, hookers should be next. If many European nations can have them then why can't we
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Ummm... there is no craps table in the high limit area at Bellagio.
Have you ever been....
Oh, never mind.
You actually seem like an articulate, intelligent person…EXCEPT when you discuss math or gambling. That’s a complimentQuote: tuttigym
As a poster child for sarcasm and satire, you need to be aware of your total audience. I know that you are NOT one of the "bad" guys. The "deer-eyed seasoned citizens" do need some guidance, and I am sure you can offer assurances.
tuttigym
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You got me there, assuming you even know for sure. I don’t think I’ve ever played at Bellagio.Quote: AlanMendelson[
Ummm... there is no craps table in the high limit area at Bellagio.
Have you ever been....
Oh, never mind.
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One point for Mendelson.
I’m surprised you haven’t busted me yet for my fake name and photo.
Quote: Ace2You actually seem like an articulate, intelligent person…EXCEPT when you discuss math or gambling. That’s a complimentQuote: tuttigym
As a poster child for sarcasm and satire, you need to be aware of your total audience. I know that you are NOT one of the "bad" guys. The "deer-eyed seasoned citizens" do need some guidance, and I am sure you can offer assurances.
tuttigym
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Intellect is relative especially when you discuss math or gambling. My math and gambling does not need computer simulations. It is all real and sometimes outside the box. BTW, I don't believe I have ever "discuss(ed)" gambling.
tuttigym
