$100 Says I Can Only Solve This Problem!

Quote: USpapergames

Does anything think still think I just made this thread to get cheap analysis? Does anyone believe I would ever post a question that I didn't already know the answer to?

Quote: rdw4potus

What makes you think your answer is correct? What happens when an expert gets a different answer?

Quote: USpapergames

I believe you think it's easy but if you actually did the work you would have a difficult time matching my results. Please 🙏 do the work before you have an opinion because to me it sounds like you have thought of a solution of how to program these hand rankings but actually hasn't done the work to prove your correct.
If you could get your program to come up with the same answers as I did by hand then I would be impressed.

     Hand     Number     Frequency    Cumm. Prob       Cycle
--------------------------------------------------------------
Color_Quad         25    0.0006376%    0.0006376%      156849
Quad_Flush        100    0.0025502%    0.0025502%       39212
Suited_D2T        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
CS_Doublet        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
  2T_Flush        400    0.0102009%    0.0102009%        9803
   DJ_Quad        600    0.0153013%    0.0153013%        6535
Co_Doublet       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
   D2_Tone       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
Fools_Hand    3916500   99.8795033%   99.8795033%           1
        --    3921225  100.0000000%  100.0000000%           1

Quote: USpapergames

So go to your Roku's web browser and type in the exact URLs ;)

Quote: Mental

Again, you are supposing it is a hard task without having any experience at the task! Everyone is allowed their uninformed opinion.

I knocked off five more cases this morning before 8am. This includes a doublet case where a hand fits the definition of more than one class. My algorithm classified them properly without any confusion. I had the program alert me with a message when a conflicts occur.
For example: "Class definition for D2_Tone overlaps with Suited_D2T"

This is the task that you said was extremely hard, but is actually quite simple. You should start preparing your next spurious objection so I don't have to waste time waiting for you. Or you could just concede that I am right and let me get back to my normal activities.

I remind you that I only landed on this thread three days ago, and and I have only worked on the problem for about five hours, so far. There are a dozen hand cases remaining in your 4-card set. I might work on a few more every now and then just to take a break from doing harder tasks in my real life.

     Hand     Number     Frequency    Cumm. Prob       Cycle
--------------------------------------------------------------
Color_Quad         25    0.0006376%    0.0006376%      156849
Quad_Flush        100    0.0025502%    0.0025502%       39212
Suited_D2T        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
CS_Doublet        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
  2T_Flush        400    0.0102009%    0.0102009%        9803
   DJ_Quad        600    0.0153013%    0.0153013%        6535
Co_Doublet       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
   D2_Tone       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
Fools_Hand    3916500   99.8795033%   99.8795033%           1
        --    3921225  100.0000000%  100.0000000%           1

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Roku's YouTube app doesn't seem to have this ability. You can't enter the video code in the Search box; among other things, all letters are converted to lowercase.

I did watch the first half or so of the first video, and one thing stood out. I have a feeling you seriously overestimate my math ability (I do have a bachelor's degree, but it's in computer science, although I was only a couple of courses short of getting one in applied mathematics as well - still, my knowledge of things like "group theory" is limited), but I am under the impression that your "secret formula" for calculating the number of partitions where the number of elements > the maximum number of groupings (e.g. the "5 cards, 4 suits" number) is known as the "partition function Q." I am under the impression that there is no closed form method for determining this; if you have one, I suggest that you publish it somewhere and have it reviewed by (other) experts in the field.

I have a feeling the main skepticism in this group is not that you can't calculate these things, but you are comparing mathematical methods against brute force computing methods which tend to be faster. Sure, you can use mathematics to determine whether or not 2^6,972,593 - 1 is prime (hint: yes, it is), but a computer will get the result much faster.

Quote: USpapergames

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Roku's YouTube app doesn't seem to have this ability. You can't enter the video code in the Search box; among other things, all letters are converted to lowercase.

I did watch the first half or so of the first video, and one thing stood out. I have a feeling you seriously overestimate my math ability (I do have a bachelor's degree, but it's in computer science, although I was only a couple of courses short of getting one in applied mathematics as well - still, my knowledge of things like "group theory" is limited), but I am under the impression that your "secret formula" for calculating the number of partitions where the number of elements > the maximum number of groupings (e.g. the "5 cards, 4 suits" number) is known as the "partition function Q." I am under the impression that there is no closed form method for determining this; if you have one, I suggest that you publish it somewhere and have it reviewed by (other) experts in the field.

I have a feeling the main skepticism in this group is not that you can't calculate these things, but you are comparing mathematical methods against brute force computing methods which tend to be faster. Sure, you can use mathematics to determine whether or not 2^6,972,593 - 1 is prime (hint: yes, it is), but a computer will get the result much faster.

1) You misread my comment (like everyone does on this forum). I said to type in the URL into your rokus web browser, not the YouTube app since youtube doesn't have a web browser in it.

2) You could be correct about my assumptions :/ That just means your naturally talented at mathematics like me. I also lack a lot of formal math training. What's crazy is I am primarily a self taught mathematician? That's why I doing know how to formally publish (+ most of publishing is taught in pHD courses)

3) If your talking about the internal particians then your definitely wrong. Watch the second video where I teach how to calculate them by hand, but I never do teach any equations;)

4) Nobody said you can't calculate these things, it's just that it is extremely difficult & you will need my theorum to make the program. I never said doing it by hand was faster than brute force, but brute force alone will not get you the answers!!! My theorum is actually incredibly difficult to do by hand & it actually lends itself as a better computer program than a tool for use humans!

Quote: USpapergames

3) If your talking about the internal partitions then your definitely wrong. Watch the second video where I teach how to calculate them by hand, but I never do teach any equations;)

Quote: unJon

Quote: USpapergames

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Roku's YouTube app doesn't seem to have this ability. You can't enter the video code in the Search box; among other things, all letters are converted to lowercase.

I did watch the first half or so of the first video, and one thing stood out. I have a feeling you seriously overestimate my math ability (I do have a bachelor's degree, but it's in computer science, although I was only a couple of courses short of getting one in applied mathematics as well - still, my knowledge of things like "group theory" is limited), but I am under the impression that your "secret formula" for calculating the number of partitions where the number of elements > the maximum number of groupings (e.g. the "5 cards, 4 suits" number) is known as the "partition function Q." I am under the impression that there is no closed form method for determining this; if you have one, I suggest that you publish it somewhere and have it reviewed by (other) experts in the field.

I have a feeling the main skepticism in this group is not that you can't calculate these things, but you are comparing mathematical methods against brute force computing methods which tend to be faster. Sure, you can use mathematics to determine whether or not 2^6,972,593 - 1 is prime (hint: yes, it is), but a computer will get the result much faster.

1) You misread my comment (like everyone does on this forum). I said to type in the URL into your rokus web browser, not the YouTube app since youtube doesn't have a web browser in it.

2) You could be correct about my assumptions :/ That just means your naturally talented at mathematics like me. I also lack a lot of formal math training. What's crazy is I am primarily a self taught mathematician? That's why I doing know how to formally publish (+ most of publishing is taught in pHD courses)

3) If your talking about the internal particians then your definitely wrong. Watch the second video where I teach how to calculate them by hand, but I never do teach any equations;)

4) Nobody said you can't calculate these things, it's just that it is extremely difficult & you will need my theorum to make the program. I never said doing it by hand was faster than brute force, but brute force alone will not get you the answers!!! My theorum is actually incredibly difficult to do by hand & it actually lends itself as a better computer program than a tool for use humans!

I’m not a mathematician or a programmer. I don’t see how “brute force alone will not get you the answers!!!”

1) You define the deck characteristics (rank, suit, color).
2) You define the hand categories.
3) You deal all possible hands and categorize them to one or more hands.
4) You count the number of hands in each category. For hands that fall into multiple categories you count them in all permutations and then pick the permutation that satisfies the rule that such hands fall into the category where the smallest number of other possible hands fall into that category.

Lots of combinations but definitely finite. Seems like a p not an np problem.

Quote: USpapergames

Quote: unJon

Quote: USpapergames

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Roku's YouTube app doesn't seem to have this ability. You can't enter the video code in the Search box; among other things, all letters are converted to lowercase.

I did watch the first half or so of the first video, and one thing stood out. I have a feeling you seriously overestimate my math ability (I do have a bachelor's degree, but it's in computer science, although I was only a couple of courses short of getting one in applied mathematics as well - still, my knowledge of things like "group theory" is limited), but I am under the impression that your "secret formula" for calculating the number of partitions where the number of elements > the maximum number of groupings (e.g. the "5 cards, 4 suits" number) is known as the "partition function Q." I am under the impression that there is no closed form method for determining this; if you have one, I suggest that you publish it somewhere and have it reviewed by (other) experts in the field.

I have a feeling the main skepticism in this group is not that you can't calculate these things, but you are comparing mathematical methods against brute force computing methods which tend to be faster. Sure, you can use mathematics to determine whether or not 2^6,972,593 - 1 is prime (hint: yes, it is), but a computer will get the result much faster.

1) You misread my comment (like everyone does on this forum). I said to type in the URL into your rokus web browser, not the YouTube app since youtube doesn't have a web browser in it.

2) You could be correct about my assumptions :/ That just means your naturally talented at mathematics like me. I also lack a lot of formal math training. What's crazy is I am primarily a self taught mathematician? That's why I doing know how to formally publish (+ most of publishing is taught in pHD courses)

3) If your talking about the internal particians then your definitely wrong. Watch the second video where I teach how to calculate them by hand, but I never do teach any equations;)

4) Nobody said you can't calculate these things, it's just that it is extremely difficult & you will need my theorum to make the program. I never said doing it by hand was faster than brute force, but brute force alone will not get you the answers!!! My theorum is actually incredibly difficult to do by hand & it actually lends itself as a better computer program than a tool for use humans!

I’m not a mathematician or a programmer. I don’t see how “brute force alone will not get you the answers!!!”

1) You define the deck characteristics (rank, suit, color).
2) You define the hand categories.
3) You deal all possible hands and categorize them to one or more hands.
4) You count the number of hands in each category. For hands that fall into multiple categories you count them in all permutations and then pick the permutation that satisfies the rule that such hands fall into the category where the smallest number of other possible hands fall into that category.

Lots of combinations but definitely finite. Seems like a p not an np problem.

Brute force alone can only provide the total sum of all hands that potentially could be the hands ranking instead of just the dominate hand ranking which the question asks for.

For example, the brute force method would state that almost 80% of the hands are going to have a disjointed pair in them! But there is no way that 80% of the hands are going to be ranked as disjointed pair because the odds state that there is more than 50% chance that there is another hand rank within those 80% hands & that hand rank is going to dominate the disjointed pairs ranking!

The fact that you have to ask this question shows me your a noob when it comes to combinatorics.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

No, I was not thinking about the internal partitions; I was talking about where, early in the first video, you say that there are 6 ways to partition 5 cards among 4 suits - you say that there is a formula of some sort, but you don't explain what it is. (This is right after you say that you count the number of ways to partition 5 cards among 13 ranks "normally" since 13 >= 5, but you need a special method for the suits since 4 <= 5.) It's at about the 18:00 point in the video.

Quote: unJon

The fact that you have to ask this question shows me your a noob when it comes to combinatorics.

Quote: unJon

Thanks for the personal insult. And for not reading my step 4 which clearly does the thing you say cannot be done by brute force. 🙄

Quote: USpapergames

I'm confused, my opinion of your combinatorics abilities is a personal insult???

Quote: USpapergames

I'm confused, my opinion of your combinatorics abilities is a personal insult???

Quote: OnceDear

Calling a noob was the personal insult, but it's so minor that I'll just remind you that other moderators might have suspended you for that, just as I might next time.

Quote: OnceDear

Calling a noob was the personal insult, but it's so minor that I'll just remind you that other moderators might have suspended you for that, just as I might next time.

Quote: gamerfreak

Oh come on. Explain to me how KID is considered a personal insult, but not Noob?

I have never complained about the mod team, but this has happened so many times now it’s hard to call out.

This happens every single time a narcissist, troll, delusional system gambler, or whatever term you want to use for people who come to the forum with the sole intention of causing disruption.

For whatever reason the troll causing the disruption is ALWAYS held to a lower standard by the mods than long time members.

When a long time member calls a troll a troll (or a noob, or even just KID!) the person inevitably complains to get the long time member banned. Yet it never happens the other way around.

The moderation policies here create the perfect environment for trolls to come in and get 1/2 the forums valuable posters banned in a single thread.

Quote: OnceDear

Thank you for the feedback. It's appreciated. I'm happy to reply.
First off, it may be a language or cultural difference, but I see 'noob' as less insulting than 'kid'
Secondly, I tend to be tolerant of minor rule infractions from members who have no recent record of rule breaking, preferring to issue an initial warning.
Thirdly, It's no secret that Wizard imposes penalties for 'personal insult' far more readily and sternly than I do. I don't pre-qualify my rulings with him and he allows me discretion. We discuss policy frankly from time to time and generally agree, but his is the casting vote.
And I'm never bothered if he over-rules me, because it's his forum and his prerogative.

I try to be consistent in my rulings and if you see me suspending for the insult 'kid' then please remind me of my own inconsistency. That my rulings might differ to Wizards is a worthy topic for discussion in the appropriate thread.

I truly believe that we should moderate in moderation to maintain an orderly and interesting forum. Less is more. So long as we keep an orderly and civil forum, I'll always tend to be liberal, not draconian in my rulings.

But it's also no secret that my patience and tolerance are not without limits. USPapergames has had one warning from me. If he chooses to waste that warning, he can expect firm treatment for his next offence.

"When a long time member calls a troll a troll (or a noob, or even just KID!) "..... Then he should have known better.

Please take discussions of moderation policies to the correct thread. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165

If members are disatisfied with my rulings, or with those of wizard, then he and I are open to feedback by PM.

I'm flagging this post for his attention. Let us see.

Quote: billryan

I'd think having the world's greatest mathlete grace us with his presence is worth overlooking a few rules violations. How often are we graced with such a person?

Quote: unJon

Thanks for the personal insult. And for not reading my step 4 which clearly does the thing you say cannot be done by brute force. 🙄

Quote: USpapergames

unJon if you feel that I purposefully meant to insult you & want to punish me I will accept your terms of punishment (as long as they are reasonable).

Quote: USpapergames

I feel like I have learned something from this experience but I need more clarification on the rules since I truly don't understand them fully. Was the issue specifically to the use of the word "noob"? If I had said that unJon was a beginner at combinatorics, would that have been better?

I just want to make something very clear, because of my LPD disability I lack a lot of computational contexts when it comes to word choices. I choose words based on their definitions alone, which is why I think it's so difficult for people to understand me even though the words I'm using do describe by definition the message I'm trying to convey.

That being sad I'm willing to accept any punishment by anyone WoV member (not just the admins).

Quote: USpapergames

Could I have used the word novice instead? Or is that also an insult & please forgive my ignorance if it is.

Quote: USpapergames

Quote: unJon

I’m not a mathematician or a programmer. I don’t see how “brute force alone will not get you the answers!!!”

1) You define the deck characteristics (rank, suit, color).
2) You define the hand categories.
3) You deal all possible hands and categorize them to one or more hands.
4) You count the number of hands in each category. For hands that fall into multiple categories you count them in all permutations and then pick the permutation that satisfies the rule that such hands fall into the category where the smallest number of other possible hands fall into that category.

Lots of combinations but definitely finite. Seems like a p not an np problem.

Brute force alone can only provide the total sum of all hands that potentially could be the hands ranking instead of just the dominate hand ranking which the question asks for.

For example, the brute force method would state that almost 80% of the hands are going to have a disjointed pair in them! But there is no way that 80% of the hands are going to be ranked as disjointed pair because the odds state that there is more than 50% chance that there is another hand rank within those 80% hands & that hand rank is going to dominate the disjointed pairs ranking!

The fact that you have to ask this question shows me your a noob when it comes to combinatorics.

      Hand     Number     Frequency    Cumm. Prob       Cycle
--------------------------------------------------------------
Color_Quad         25    0.0006376%    0.0006376%      156849
Quad_Flush        100    0.0025502%    0.0025502%       39212
Suited_D2T        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
CS_Doublet        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
  2T_Flush        400    0.0102009%    0.0102009%        9803
   DJ_Quad        600    0.0153013%    0.0153013%        6535
Co_Doublet       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
   D2_Tone       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
 Su_Double       2700    0.0688560%    0.0688560%        1452
Dblt_Flush       3600    0.0918080%    0.0918080%        1089
 Suited_2T       4800    0.1224107%    0.1224107%         817
Co_Triplet       9600    0.2448214%    0.2448214%         408
Su_Triplet      19000    0.4845425%    0.4845425%         206
    2_Tone      27600    0.7038617%    0.7038617%         142

Quote: OnceDear

Novice would have been an adjective describing the poster. You would not reasonably call a PHD, or an interviewing potential employer a novice and then expect his praise, help or respect. Far better to say that you found his post lacking in some way and then argue the merit of that post..

Quote: Mental

Now USpapergames is not only opining about things where he is clueless, but he is insulting unJon by calling him a noob when unJon is basically correct. Does the Moderator have an opinion on this matter?

My method is not very brutish, but it just classifying, resolving overlaps, and printing out the results. USpapergames claims that this is a hard problem barely solvable by IBM scientists in a month. I just knocked off the 2_Tone hand in 10 minutes of programming. Now that I have the hang of this, things are going more quickly. USpapergames claimed that things got harder as I went down his list of 4-card hands, but he is wrong again.

I have already detected and resolved 6280 overlaps, or 'dominated hands' in his parlance. There will be more overlaps towards the bottom of the list, but they are easily resolved.

My algorithm continues to reproduce his numbers for every hand that I have looked at. I have almost completed his challenge (about two thirds done), and I doubt that it gets much harder from here .

      Hand     Number     Frequency    Cumm. Prob       Cycle
--------------------------------------------------------------
Color_Quad         25    0.0006376%    0.0006376%      156849
Quad_Flush        100    0.0025502%    0.0025502%       39212
Suited_D2T        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
CS_Doublet        300    0.0076507%    0.0076507%       13071
  2T_Flush        400    0.0102009%    0.0102009%        9803
   DJ_Quad        600    0.0153013%    0.0153013%        6535
Co_Doublet       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
   D2_Tone       1500    0.0382534%    0.0382534%        2614
 Su_Double       2700    0.0688560%    0.0688560%        1452
Dblt_Flush       3600    0.0918080%    0.0918080%        1089
 Suited_2T       4800    0.1224107%    0.1224107%         817
Co_Triplet       9600    0.2448214%    0.2448214%         408
Su_Triplet      19000    0.4845425%    0.4845425%         206
    2_Tone      27600    0.7038617%    0.7038617%         142

Quote: USpapergames

Please, this makes no sense to me. Can I express my opinion about someone's skills or not? Am I going to get suspended for telling someone I think their skills are exceptional? What about moderate? Where do you draw the line??? Please considered redefining the rules for clarity.

Quote: OnceDear

Thank you for your suggestion. It's not for a humble forum moderator to define simple rules of courtesy. You re asked to be courteous and whether you are or not will be signalled by warnings or suspensions, or no action. Call it a feedback system. The rules do not need reworking and nor will they be.
Just think before you give your opinion of a poster: "Would I say this to wizard's face in his own front room in front of his family and friends? Would I then be welcome?"

Quote: OnceDear

Thank you for your suggestion. It's not for a humble forum moderator to define simple rules of courtesy. You re asked to be courteous and whether you are or not will be signalled by warnings or suspensions, or no action. Call it a feedback system. The rules do not need reworking and nor will they be.
Just think before you give your opinion of a poster: "Would I say this to wizard's face in his own front room in front of his family and friends? Would I then be welcome?"

Quote: rdw4potus

What makes you think your answer is correct? What happens when an expert gets a different answer?

Quote: USpapergames

Or are all low classified terms illegal to use, so for example I could even say unJon is a beginner because beginner is a low classification term? So instead the correct way to say it would be that unJon is the opposite of an expert when it comes to combinatorics? This just sounds terribly weird word usage but I'll learn to change my word choices whoever way the form feels I should. Buy 1st someone needs to clarify this because I still can't figure out what is wrong with using the word noob.

Please classify respectfully for me 🙏

Quote: rdw4potus

Seriously, you aren't this message board's leading expert in combinatorial statistics...

Quote: SOOPOO

OnceDear, you are being trolled.

US... if you want to stay and be a productive member here, just move on from this. Discuss your problem, discuss the replies.

It seems to me that you need to learn how to interact with people of a variety of different educations, abilities, etc...

If a potential employer would read your posts in this thread you would have a ZERO percent chance of getting that job you want? Can you see why?

Quote: SOOPOO

OnceDear, you are being trolled.

Quote:

US... if you want to stay and be a productive member here, just move on from this. Discuss your problem, discuss the replies.

It seems to me that you need to learn how to interact with people of a variety of different educations, abilities, etc...

If a potential employer would read your posts in this thread you would have a ZERO percent chance of getting that job you want? Can you see why?

Quote: OnceDear

Fine example. If SOOPOO had called USPG a troll, that would have been penalised. He didn't: He described his opinion of a situation. I'll grant you it's subtle.

I tend to agree.

If you call your host or interviewer a fool, You "go to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200"

If you say that you think what your host or interviewer said was foolish, you probably get a pass, but not much more.

Quote: USpapergames

Here is another classic example of someone giving me their opinion of my my skills!!!! How is this any different than what your giving me a warning for???

Quote: rdw4potus

I don't think you're a noob. I just think wiz and Eliot and crystal and mental and Gordon and Don and Stacy and others are better than you seem to be.

Quote: USpapergames

Ok, but what is the difference? Your still giving an opinion about my skill set??? It's the same thing!!!

Your going to tell me that I cant be insulted just as much from your comment as my comment? I'm the person claiming to be the expert so when you say something like that to me you might as well call me a noob!

Quote: rdw4potus

Saying "you are a terrible baseball player" is not remotely the same thing as saying "you play baseball worse than Willie Mays"

Quote: USpapergames

Now I'm even more confused 😖...saying someone is trolling is calling someone a troll. You can't troll without being a troll, your not making any sense. Your basically saying I can telling someone here that they are bitching but I can't call them a bit**?

So I could have said that unJon has noobish combinatoric skills or that his combinatoric skills are noobish?

It almost feels like the rules are being made up as we go along.

Quote: OnceDear

For someone who DIDN'T get suspended for calling another player a 'noob', you seem to be doing a lot of word wrangling. If I perceive that SooPoo was on the ball, I will not be explaining my next suspension in finely crafted Queen's English.