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Skunchle
Skunchle
Joined: Aug 26, 2014
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August 26th, 2014 at 2:27:22 PM permalink
For a free bet promotion, i.e. a certificate for say $100 that can be
played on a table game and pays back $100 on an even-money bet,
why do some casinos require that that bet on a roulette game
can only be played on RED or EVEN and not also BLACK and/or ODD.

A pit boss told me that it was to that prevent two people
from playing at the same spin, one RED and one BLACK.
But the expected value on two $100 free bets is the same
either way: $94.70.

Given that, does house limitation make any sense?
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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August 26th, 2014 at 2:29:25 PM permalink
Quote: Skunchle

For a free bet promotion, i.e. a certificate for say $100 that can be
played on a table game and pays back $100 on an even-money bet,
why do some casinos require that that bet on a roulette game
can only be played on RED or EVEN and not also BLACK and/or ODD.

A pit boss told me that it was to that prevent two people
from playing at the same spin, one RED and one BLACK.
But the expected value on two $100 free bets is the same
either way: $94.70.

Given that, does house limitation make any sense?



No. Lots of things that casinos do don't make any sense. This is generally a good thing. Unfortunately, in this case, it's not helpful.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 26th, 2014 at 3:05:17 PM permalink
Quote: Skunchle

A pit boss told me that it was to that prevent two people
from playing at the same spin, one RED and one BLACK.


Yeah, that's the reason. Lot's of casinos have this same rule. Bet on Pass, but not Don't Pass. Etc. Read the fine print.


Quote: Skunchle

But the expected value on two $100 free bets is the same
either way: $94.70.


Wait a sac. You're expecting the casino to understand the math? That's just crazy talk.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Dieter
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Dieter
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August 26th, 2014 at 11:40:03 PM permalink
Quote: Skunchle

Given that, does house limitation make any sense?



It's exactly what the pit boss said - to prevent a cancellation bet.

They'd rather pay out $100 47% of the time than $100 94% of the time.
May the cards fall in your favor.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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August 27th, 2014 at 12:32:21 AM permalink
They want people to get hooked on playing and play some more. They don't want a situation where it's smart to not play. It's not about the single bet, it's about future bets.
I am a robot.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 27th, 2014 at 4:10:52 AM permalink
To me, the reason is even simpler. Some casinos don't realize that they are in the entertainment business and that having happy customers is how they define success.

The type of person who wants to hedge a coupon is EXACTLY the type of person you should not want to make unhappy in my personal opinion. Also, if they really like hedging (instead of just trying to squeeze money out of a coupon) they are more than likely the type of player a casino wants (low volatility + high edge).

It's also an instance of

Hanlon's_razor
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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August 27th, 2014 at 7:58:20 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

To me, the reason is even simpler. Some casinos don't realize that they are in the entertainment business and that having happy customers is how they define success.

The type of person who wants to hedge a coupon is EXACTLY the type of person you should not want to make unhappy in my personal opinion. Also, if they really like hedging (instead of just trying to squeeze money out of a coupon) they are more than likely the type of player a casino wants (low volatility + high edge).

It's also an instance of

Hanlon's_razor

I disagree they want a high edge. They want to make safe guaranteed money. I doubt this rule was meant for ploppys or players who play as much as you. It has been implemented because of relentless APs. I don't think you know the magnitude of what has happened in the past.

Its better for a low banked AP to hedge his bets as often as possible.

Lets pretend you have A few 5k coupons (its happened) and a 5 10k BR, whats better for an AP hedging or making guaranteed money?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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August 27th, 2014 at 8:09:44 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I disagree they want a high edge. They want to make safe guaranteed money. I doubt this rule was meant for ploppys or players who play as much as you. It has been implemented because of relentless APs. I don't think you know the magnitude of what has happened in the past.

Its better for a low banked AP to hedge his bets as often as possible.

Lets pretend you have A few 5k coupons (its happened) and a 5 10k BR, whats better for an AP hedging or making guaranteed money?



Here is the thing: This is not a zero sum game. Just because it is good for you does not mean that it is bad for the casino.

It is better for you if you play one coupon on each side. It is also better for the casino if you play one coupon on each side. No one should ever take on variance for free. By playing one on each side, you reduce variance, both for you and for the casino.

Now, the casino can handle the variance a lot better than you can (in other words, they would not pay as much to eliminate the variance as you would) but, when given an opportunity to reduce the variance for free, it's correct for them to take it, and it's correct for you to take it. Playing one coupon on each side is win-win.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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August 27th, 2014 at 8:18:56 PM permalink
Also, FWIW, the limitation doesn't limit anything. You can still cash the coupon out by having an associate bet cash on the other side, and also hedging against the 0 (or whatever, depending on the game)

I guess this does double the house edge (double the action) so the $5k coupon at single-zero roulette is now only worth $2364 instead of $2432.
Switch
Switch
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August 27th, 2014 at 8:57:38 PM permalink
Phew!!! Read the title and thought you had found a flaw in my game :-)

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