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pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 4th, 2011 at 10:00:32 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed


I don't know of any instance that salirse means to leak. It's on the right track, but it's not like that. If a container is leaking, you'd say "se le sale el líquido al envase," for example.

I haven't said this in a while, and I think I never said it here: Sue that techer!



I think the Spanish-English dictionaries are translating definition #37 in the RAE as "to leak". BTW, the word set has 464 different definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary (the most in the dictionary).


Some "teaching decisions" like treating reflexive verbs as a separate verb were made decades ago. This text is a virtual universal standard since it was written in 1971.

If you take classes in Mexico you learn all kinds of things. I was surprised when one girl told me that ducharse is not said in Mexico. Mexicans prefer to say bañarse whereas the word "ducharse" is only common in Spain. That word is in every basic Spanish text, and I have never seen that in writing.



Quote: RAE definition of salir


(Del lat. salīre, saltar, brotar).
1. intr. Pasar de dentro a fuera. U. t. c. prnl.
2. intr. Partir de un lugar a otro. Tal día salieron los reyes de Madrid para Barcelona.
3. intr. Desembarazarse, librarse de algún lugar estrecho, peligroso o molesto.
4. intr. Libertarse, desembarazarse de algo que ocupa o molesta. Salió de la duda. Salir de apuros.
5. intr. Aparecer, manifestarse, descubrirse. Va a salir el Sol. El gobernador salió en televisión. La revista sale los jueves.
6. intr. Nacer, brotar. Empieza a salir el trigo.
7. intr. Dicho de una mancha: Quitarse, borrarse, desaparecer.
8. intr. Dicho de una mancha: aparecer (‖ manifestarse, dejarse ver). La mancha ha vuelto a salir.
9. intr. Dicho de una cosa: Sobresalir, estar más alta o más afuera que otra.
10. intr. Dicho de una persona: Descubrir su índole, idoneidad o aprovechamiento. Salió muy travieso, muy juicioso, buen matemático.
11. intr. Dicho de una cosa: Nacer, proceder, traer su origen de otra.
12. intr. Dicho de una persona: En ciertos juegos, ser la primera que juega.
13. intr. Deshacerse de algo vendiéndolo o despachándolo. Ya he salido de todo mi grano.
14. intr. Darse al público.
15. intr. Decir o hacer algo inesperado o intempestivo. ¿Ahora sale usted con eso?
16. intr. Dicho de una cosa: Ocurrir, sobrevenir u ofrecerse de nuevo. Salir un empleo.
17. intr. Dicho de una cosa que se compra: Importar, costar. Me sale a veinte pesetas el metro de paño.
18. intr. Dicho de una cuenta: Resultar, de la oportuna operación aritmética, que está bien hecha o ajustada.
19. intr. Corresponder a cada uno en pago o ganancia una cantidad. Salimos A mil pesetas.
20. intr. Trasladarse dentro del lugar donde se está al sitio adecuado para realizar una actividad. Salir A bailar, A escena, A pronunciar un discurso.
21. intr. Mostrar o iniciar inesperadamente algo. Salir CON la pretensión, CON la demanda, CON la amenaza. U. t. c. prnl.
22. intr. Fiar, abonar, defender a alguien. Salió POR su amigo.
23. intr. Frecuentar, por motivos amorosos o amistosos, el trato de otra persona, fuera de su domicilio.
24. intr. En una función de teatro o en una película, representar, figurar o hacer un papel. Ella salió DE Doña Inés.
25. intr. Perder el uso de algo. Salió fuera de tino.
26. intr. Venir a ser, quedar. Salir vencedor. La sospecha salió falsa.
27. intr. Tener buen o mal éxito. Salir bien en los exámenes. La comedia salió bien.
28. intr. Dicho de un período de tiempo: fenecer. Hoy sale el verano.
29. intr. Dicho especialmente de los hijos respecto de sus padres o de los discípulos respecto de sus maestros: Parecerse, asemejarse. Este niño ha salido a su padre. Juan de Juanes salió a Rafael en su primera escuela.
30. intr. Apartarse, separarse de algo o faltar a ello en lo regular o debido. Salió de la regla, de tono. U. t. c. prnl.
31. intr. Cesar en un oficio o cargo. Pronto saldré de tutor.
32. intr. Ser elegido o sacado por suerte o votación. En la lotería salieron tales números. Antón ha salido alcalde.
33. intr. Ir a parar, tener salida a un punto determinado. Esta calle sale a la plaza.
34. intr. Mar. Dicho de una embarcación: Adelantarse a otra, aventajarla en andar cuando navegan juntas.
35. intr. Col. Dicho de una cosa: Armonizar con otra. La corbata no le sale con la camisa.
36. intr. Col. Dicho de una cosa: Ajustarse a un modelo establecido. Esa canta no salió.
37. prnl. Dicho del contenido de una vasija: Derramarse por una rendija o rotura.
38. prnl. Dicho de un líquido: Rebosar al hervir. Se ha salido la leche.
39. prnl. Dicho de una vasija o de un depósito: Tener alguna rendija o rotura por la cual se derrama el contenido. Este cántaro se sale.
40. prnl. En algunos juegos, hacer los tantos o las jugadas necesarios para ganar.
41. prnl. ant. Iniciar la intervención en un pleito o una causa como fiscal o como parte.

Nareed
Nareed
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October 5th, 2011 at 11:49:57 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think the Spanish-English dictionaries are translating definition #37 in the RAE as "to leak".



And I still can't see it used that way.

But that's one reason learning a language in a language school only takes you so far. Again, you ahve to read, talk and see movies or TV in the language you're trying to learn.

Quote:

If you take classes in Mexico you learn all kinds of things. I was surprised when one girl told me that ducharse is not said in Mexico. Mexicans prefer to say bañarse whereas the word "ducharse" is only common in Spain. That word is in every basic Spanish text, and I have never seen that in writing.



You learn if you travel, too. In many Spanish speaking countries, perhaps in Spain, too, "bañarse" means to swim or frolic in water, be it a pool, ocean, river, lake or fountain. People enjoying the beach are called "bañistas," for example.

In all places, I think, a bathroom is called "baño." But as in English public bathrooms are called restrooms or washrooms, so in Spanish they are variously referred to as "sanitarios," or "WC" (that's an old English term for a toilet). In mexico the term "baño público" is used, but only for facilities that provide showering and/or bathing facilities.

And there are tons and tons of such exceptions and regional differences.
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Nareed
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October 6th, 2011 at 8:01:12 AM permalink
Fecha: 6 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: FIANZA


Someone's been remiss lately. Well, rather than keep arguing over the finer technical points of grammar, and what means what, Let's isntead tackle a new word.

Fianza is one of those double-duty words. It can mean "bail" but it can also mean "bond."

As bail it needs no further explanation. It's an amount of money or property deposited (not paid) to a court in order to secure one's release until the adjudication of criminal proceedings.

Now to the other definition of "bond." It means specifically a financial instrument used to secure a contract, shipment or other kind of exchange. Here's how it works. Suppose I contract Company X to supply me with nouns and adjectives on order for one year. They agree to fill my orders in 3 days, to be paid in 7 days after the receipt of the order and to exchange any defective words within two hours of being given notice (during business hours). In addition I ask for a guaranty in the amount of 5% of the nominal value of the contract.

So let's say the contract is worth $100,000. The guaranty would have a face value of $5,000. The contract would specify when I can make the guaranty effective, that is when I can take punitive action on Company X for various non-compliance issues, in the form of a payment of $5,000 and, usually, a unilateral rescicion of the contract. For this example let's suppose if X has three late or incomplete deliveries in a row, or more than five late or incompelte deliveries in a month, I can proceed to cash the guaranty and rescind the contract.

Now, the guaranty can be any number of things. A cashier's check, for example, or a certified check, or a bond, among other things (deposits, colalteral, etc). The bond, or fianza, works like an insurance policy. You pay a company, known as an afianzadora, a preium, once, and they assume the obligayion to pay me if you don't comply with the terms of the contract.

The advantage for Company X is that a check or deposit involves losing the use of the money for the duration of the contract. A bond means a one time payment for amuch lower amount. For a $5 grand bond, it would be around $150 or so. Also like all insurers, the afianzadora would try to negotiate a lower payment, or find a means to keep the contract going. It's an additional layer of legal protection, should Company X experience unexpected troubles in the nouns department (she said with a straight face).

There is a similar isntrument in America known as a bail bond. For all I know there are other type sof commercial, and more savory, types of bonds there too. In Mexico these types of bonds are more common in government contracts, but not exclusively so.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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October 6th, 2011 at 8:43:07 AM permalink
Sorry for my absence the last two days, I was busy with the gaming show. Thanks for the talk about reflexive verbs. I'm sure they are quite natural to Nareed, but they are a difficult concept to grasp when learning Spanish as a second language.

Anyway, enough about that. I guess the ejemplos are left to the alumnos again.

Ejempo time.

Yo fue detenido. Por favor, vienes a la cárcel y pagas mi fianza. = I was arrested. Please come to the jail and pay my bail.

Las Vegas Fianzas.
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Nareed
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October 6th, 2011 at 8:58:46 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm sure they are quite natural to Nareed, but they are a difficult concept to grasp when learning Spanish as a second language.



natural as breathing. if you keep track of it you find it hard to do.

Quote:

Anyway, enough about that. I guess the ejemplos are left to the alumnos again.



I didn't think they were necessary. But, flashback to my English lessons, they were always required. So go ahead and put them in if it slips my mind.

Quote:

Ejempo time.

Yo fue detenido. Por favor, vienes a la cárcel y pagas mi fianza. = I was arrested. Please come to the jail and pay my bail.



Very close. "you fuÍ detenido. Por favor VEN a la cárcel...."

You know, come to think of it in Spanish class in junio highschool the teacher assigned five words per day. We had to look them up in the dictionary, write down at leat a portion fo the definition and provide an example. Most people, myself included, used very simple examples. Stuff like "fuí a nadar ayer." Which irked the teacher no end (he was a strict, old man but very comeptent; I liked him). I'm glad to say you would have satisified that old task master fully, as you come up with elaborate sentences in the right context every time.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 6th, 2011 at 9:01:07 AM permalink
Yo fue detenido. Por favor, vienes a la cárcel y pagas mi fianza. - Incorrect
Yo fui detenido. Por favor venga a la cárcel y pagar mi fianza. - Correct, I think.

You want to use the first person, which is "fui". "Fue" is third person.
The second section is a command, and you need to use the "imperative" conjugation.
The third change was from a conjugated verb to an infinitive. There is a article on inifinitives after verbs
Alan
Alan
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October 6th, 2011 at 9:05:46 AM permalink
My expert concurs with your changing of fue to fui, however not changing the vienes to venga. For whatever it's worth.
Nareed
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October 6th, 2011 at 11:15:45 AM permalink
Quote: Alan

My expert concurs with your changing of fue to fui, however not changing the vienes to venga. For whatever it's worth.



Ven means "come" for the second person singular informal. Venga is the same for the formal pronoun. Either is correct, but I judged the Wizard was using an informal implied pronoun. So:

"Por favor ven a la cárcel y pagas mi fianza." or "Por favor venga a la cárcel y pague mi fianza."

Paco made another error using an infinitive verb by itself. He should have said either ""Por favor ven a la cárcel A pagar mi fianza." or "Por favor venga a la cárcel A pagar mi fianza."
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 6th, 2011 at 3:52:17 PM permalink
Yo fui detenido. Por favor venga a la cárcel y pagar mi fianza. - Incorrect.
Yo fui detenido. Por favor venga a la cárcel a pagar mi fianza. - Correct.

Wizard
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October 6th, 2011 at 11:00:26 PM permalink
Fecha: 7 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: RODEAR


Today's word, rodear means to circle around, go around something, or surround something. A related word is the adjective rodeo, meaning a detour around something. Perhaps this is where we get Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, which is a little curvy, although lots of streets are in that hilly part of LA.

This makes me wonder if the English word rodeo is actually a Spanish word. At a rodeo the center is circular with the crowd surrounding it. Or maybe it is because the cowboy is trying to surround the calf to throw the rope around its neck. Maybe the rope itself is what the word rodeo refers to. Paco, this has your name written all over it.

Ejemplo time.

La viuda vieja está rodeada de gatos. = The old widow is surrounded by cats.

I'm not sure about the rodeada. I turned the verb into an adjective, so I think that is right. I could easily be wrong about the de. Por crosses my mind too.
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