Thread Rating:

pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
August 20th, 2012 at 12:46:03 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

We already have beber and tomar, what do we need another word for "drink" for?



In the DRAE the verb is only listed in the pronomial (reflexive) as traguearse and it means to get yourself sloshed (really drunk).

A somewhat related verb is tragar
transitive meaning is "to swallow"
intransitive meaning is "to concede to a proposal lamely". A colloquial definition
pronomial meaning is "collide yourself with an object". A colloquial definition

The verb has a vulgar meaning in many contexts, naturally, so you would want to be careful on how you use it.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
August 20th, 2012 at 12:56:43 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's SWD means to yell/howl.



The DRAE says
aullido (de aullar). Voz triste y prolongada del lobo, el perro y otros animales.

So "sad and prolonged" voice of a wolf, dog, or other animals.



I am not sure if it can be used for a human yell. The only time I see references to the word on the web as applied to a human it is either a horror film or very artistic avant garde work like Alan Ginsberg's famous poem.



A native speaker comments would help. Can this refer to a baby's cry? How about a man in emotional pain? How about an irate man?
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:30:53 PM permalink
Fecha: 22-8-12
Palabra: Holgazanear


Today's SWD means to loaf about. When I see a word like that what comes to my mind is lots of Scrabble points.

Ejemplo time.

Sra. Howell se holgazaneó su muchos años en la isla. = Mrs. Howell loafed around her many years on the island.

On another topic, I'm sure you've heard the song "It's raining men." The question is how would you say in Spanish "The day it rained men."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
August 22nd, 2012 at 8:14:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's SWD means to loaf about.



This verb has a complex etymology. The Latin word follico means to pant or breath heavily. Descended from this word is holgar which means to rest or to be idle. The implication is that it means to rest of working hard, but at times it just translated as lazy. I think a native speaker could weigh in here (or someone dating a native speaker) as to how much it means to be lazy and how much it means to be tired after a hard workout.

Now the Arabic word kâslan, influenced by the Spanish word holgar and the Gallician word lacazán gives us the Spanish noun holgazan and verb holgazanear. They all mean lazy or idle in their languages.


An idiomatic expression using "holgar" (like idle talk) is stated in English as "it goes without saying".
You use the 3rd person present conjugation of holgar (i.e. huelga)
huelga decir que no estaré allí == it goes without saying that I won't be there
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
August 24th, 2012 at 7:29:05 PM permalink
I finally got up the nerve to ask about the Gavin McLoud picture. While waiting for my tutor, I took the picture off and showed it to the store owner and asked, "Do you know who this is?" She did. I then buttered her up with a lot of Love Boat trivia questions.

However, it began to turn into a spectacle reminiscent of me in my single days, trying to ask a girl out on a date. Lots of small talk to break the ice, but unable to get up the courage to get to the point.

Fortunately, the store owner must have seen my agony and just said "Do you want the picture?" I breathed a big sign of relief and said, "Please! I'm a big fan of the Love Boat, and that picture has been up there unclaimed for at least several months." So she said, "Go ahead, just take it."



In other news, I think we have to face the reality that without Nareed, or perhaps another dedicated native speaker, this thread is dead. I'm not going to sign the death certificate yet, but will check back for a sign of life from time to time.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
August 24th, 2012 at 7:58:46 PM permalink
Look up "tímido."

Beep!
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
August 24th, 2012 at 8:55:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

In other news, I think we have to face the reality that without Nareed, or perhaps another dedicated native speaker, this thread is dead. I'm not going to sign the death certificate yet, but will check back for a sign of life from time to time.



I'm glad Nareed is back. I don't recognize many of these words. The dictionary defines "holgar" as "to rest after labor" or " to be unnecessary". Those definitions are radically different although they seem to come from the same basic concept. I try to look for cartoons or images that may convey the common meaning, but I don't think I ever heard the word while I was in Mexico.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
August 27th, 2012 at 2:12:04 AM permalink


My third cousin came to New York from Spain. He is a philosophy professor at Ciudad Rodrigo (15 miles from the Portuguese border). It's an old castle town. The Spanish government has turned many of the remote historic structures into hotels called paradors. This allows them to generate income so they can be maintained.

The province of Salamanca (pop 350K) is part of the former Kingdom of León which lasted in some form for over 900 years. Spanish teaching is a big part of the economy, because some students want to learn , as close as possible, the original Spanish dialect. Salamanca began being resettled by Christians after the armies took Toledo in 1085 just a few years before the first crusade.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
September 1st, 2012 at 7:15:47 AM permalink
Thanks for the pictures and the post, Paco.

I recently finished this book.



I thought it was outstanding. Unlike Cuentos Españoles, which I wrote about earlier, this book was written recently, and as far as I can in Mexican Spanish. The Spanish is pretty easy, just about perfect for my level.

In the notes at the end of the book the author relates a huge controversy about how to translate "The Day it Snowed Tortillas." In fact I asked how to translate a similar sentence earlier, but didn't get any response to it. The issue is the word "snowed." Should it be "nevó" or "nevaron." He said that when he asked native speakers they were roughly equally split between the two. So, he finally took it to the Academia Real, who said that nevaron was correct.

I think it is similar to the sentence we covered in great detail earlier in this thread, how to translate "One is able to see many stars on a clear night." If the one performing the action of the verb is not clearly identified, then the subject becomes what would be the direct object in English. In this case, my interpretation is that tortillas becomes the subject of the verb, and since it is plural, the correct conjugation is based on the ellos form of he preterit.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
September 1st, 2012 at 10:50:19 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

In the notes at the end of the book the author relates a huge controversy about how to translate "The Day it Snowed Tortillas." In fact I asked how to translate a similar sentence earlier, but didn't get any response to it. The issue is the word "snowed." Should it be "nevó" or "nevaron." He said that when he asked native speakers they were roughly equally split between the two. So, he finally took it to the Academia Real, who said that nevaron was correct.



I thought the note was interesting enough that I am reproducing it (properly credited). My aunt (who learned European Spanish) suggested that if she saw the title in Spanish, she would translate it into English as Tortillas snowed that day. Her English translation removes any doubt that the subject of the sentence is "tortillas".

The grammatical form of using "it" as a vague subject is common in English, but the construct doesn't exist in Spanish. So native speakers are divided about how to translate the phrase.

Quote: The Day It Snowed Tortillas / El Dia Que Nevaron Tortillas, Folktales told in Spanish and English: The Trials of a Title: Joe Hayes

It may be when you read the Spanish title of this book, you thought, Shouldn't it be "El dia que nevó tortillas?" If so, you're not the only one who has wondered that. The first time I translated the story, I used the verb form nevó, but by the time the book was published I decided that the better from was nevaron, and that's how the title appeared in the first edition.

However, an editor who read the book, a native speaker of Spanish who had been educated in Latin America, insisted that I had committed an error and that the verb should be changed to nevó. It was changed in the second edition, and that how the title stood until I began preparing the manuscript for the present book. When the publisher showed advance publicity to a variety of Spanish editors, all of them native speakers from Spain or Latin America, a disagreement emerged. Some were certain that I should say nevaron tortillas, others were equally convinced the correct expression was nevó tortillas. Still others said that both were correct and that I should just do as pleased.

Finally, an editor carried the question to the highest court of arbitration: La Real Academia de la Lengua Española. We received our answer: La frase que usted propone se redactaría del siguiente modo: "El día que nevaron tortillas" . From their data bank, the Academy sent examples of analogous expressions in contemporary writing. And so the book has the title which you see. When you tell the story, however, if it feels better to say "el día que nevó tortilla", feel perfectly free to do it!



A play using "el día que nevó tortilla".

  • Jump to: